How to create boundaries with an internalizer?

[AllyCat7]

Hello all,

I've dealth with a guy with BPD before. He was an externalizer (outward raging, clingy type) and I was bad at setting boundaries with him. I finally did, though, but we weren't compatible in any event, so I broke up with him. But those boundaries involved me pretty much learning how and when to say no.

But now I'm dealing with another BPD guy (dating on/off for two years), but he is an internalizer--meaning he rages inward, freezes, pulls away, and gives silent treatment. How would one create and set healthy boundaries with someone who behaves like this? I can't think of much else besides giving ultimatums. In the past, I have stated my needs, after which he will freeze/give silent treatment (and usually go talk to other girls). If I remained patient during that time (and did not react negatively), he would eventually come back around and try to meet those needs. But in the meantime, I was left hurt from his silent treatment and feeling bad that he was most likely talking to other girls during that time. Is there any other way? Please help. Thanks!

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[elemental]

Have you had a chance to read the lessons on the right?

Silent treatment is very painful, and a lot of us have faced it.

The gist is, when they are doing that, you go quiet and go do things that make you feel better.

Imagine the best way you could handle him doing silent treatment... you, calm and collected, off enjoying yourself doing things for your own self.

In the lessons there is a thread about silent treatment. BPD is doing it for a variety of reasons, significant among them is that they know how hurtful it is (punishing you) they want to control you, they like knowing you are struggling, and sometimes they are unable to handle their emotions in healthy ways so they need the time apart.

What came out of that discussion was many people said that when you stop reacting to it, they lose power over you, and when they realize it isn't working, they do it less.

Boundries are to protect you. You don't have to even tell him.

Boundry here could be: when my bf gives me the silent treatment, I will go do things I enjoy and live my life and not let him suck me into a bad dynamic where he gets to dump his crazy on me.

Or if you decide you can't and won't tolarate this from him:

I will not be in a relationship with someone who does this.

Your boundry though is for you to enforce. If you don't he walks all over you.

Boundries are usually the result of personal values.

So question to you is what are your personal values and what boundries come out of those values. What boundry can you have that will help you feel better and be one you can feel ok about enforcing?

[AllyCat7]

Hello Elemental, Thanks so much for your reply! I have not read the lessons much because I was barely in a relationship with my guy lately. It seemed he was mainly keeping me around for when he dysregulated with a new person he rekindled a connection with a few months ago. We are all but done now.

The silent treatments didn't start until futher along into the relationship, when he started painting me black. We had a couple disagreements, after which he grew less and less connected to me. Over the past few months, when he did it, I did let him have his space. But the funny thing is that when I did try to reach out to him during those periods (which I did a few times), I was almost certain he was talking to someone else. So he may have been doing the silent treatment because he was overwhelmed, but he was also cheating on me during those times. So I guess even if I was off doing what I was doing for myself, knowing that he was talking to other girls was hard for me to handle.

I finally did what you suggest in the end of your post. I put my foot down in recent weeks. I did it in the form of a couple really long emails. He shut down after the first, but came back around and said we were just friends. I was fine with that. But then he re-added me on FB on Friday (I deleted him last year), after which I saw plenty of girls, but one in particular that I am almost certain he has made his main girl in recent months (it looks like he's been in touch with her the entire time we were together. But ever since he moved to my city a few months ago, he's been triangulating with her since she's long distance.)

Anyway, I sent him another email last night, stating that I suspected he was talking to someone else and I will not be put in a "limbo state" anymore. Either we are just friends or we are together. He responded by deleting me from his FB. So I guess we're pretty much over now.

I don't know if I handled it correctly or not, but I didn't know what else to do. I was patient with him for months, even after I was painted black, but that only lead me to becomng his "backup chick", which was really degrading for me. I guess me standing up for myself was a boundary, but I'm wondering if there was anything else I could have done.

[AllyCat7]

Btw, in the first email, I stated that I could no longer handle the silent treatments, and that if he wanted to continue to do that, he may as well break up with me, because that's how it felt to me each time he would do that. I said he could verbally tell me if he needed space, but to just disappear with no communication was not cool. He said the same thing to me in the beginning of the relationship when I used to get quiet when I was upset (which I didn't do nearly as badly as him... .  mainly just to cool off). So I gave him the same ultimatum, which is when he told me a week later we are just friends and that he loses touch every now and then with all of his friends. Total bull___ because we were clearly more than friends this entire two years, including the last few months when things were rocky. Whatever. Nothing really shocks me anymore, I guess. But kind of glad it's over.

[CodependentHusband]

Btw, in the first email, I stated that I could no longer handle the silent treatments, and that if he wanted to continue to do that, he may as well break up with me... .  

hmm... .  you know, I can't really speak for others, but in my experience with my dBPDw, she doesn't do too well when I tell her what I want her to do, or what I intend to do if she does something. It tends to trigger her feeling that she is somehow being controlled. It's almost like she's going to rebel even more if she hears me tell her something like that, even though it should be common sense not to treat someone a certain way. Instead, I've found that simply defining what my boundaries are and doing what I can to protect them without, 'laying down the law' with my wife works much better.

So, you are posting on Staying. Are you intending on trying to get back together with him?

[AllyCat7]

CodependentHusband, thanks for your reply!

I probably did not word things the best way. How should I have worded it then? I guess I'm confused on how to create boundaries for an action someone is NOT doing (i.e. not communicating with you) rather than something they are doing. Maybe you could give me an example of what you would have said instead?

I probably scared him away. But at the same time, I was frustrated. I think a part of me just wanted out, at least temporarily, and so I pushed him away by way of being demanding. I need to focus on myself right now. I started talking to a T recently also to work on some of my codependency issues. Having to deal with this guy in the meantime was holding me back, especially since I knew I was no longer his main girl but just a side girl. The disrespect I felt when that was confirmed to me was just unacceptable.

Btw, as of now, I don't see us getting together. Him deleting me from his FB was a big deal. He's never done that before since I've known him. I deleted him twice, both times kindly explaining why I was doing it (because it was making me jealous to see all the other girls on it). But he just deleted me in a way that I am almost certain it's over. I am probably painted really black right now. I don't even know if I want him back. I could somewhat handle the silent treatments, but I can't deal with a serial cheater... .  not unless he's getting help at least.

Anyway, thanks again!

[CodependentHusband]

Okay. I think I might have an idea here of what is going on. The lessons clear a lot of this up, but I'll try to give you a condensed version. Boundaries are not for other people. Boundaries are our own internal 'code' or values that we live by. An example of one of my boundaries is that I will not be around to listen to someone screaming criticisms directed at me. My wife has BPD... .  she's going to have a rage episode from time to time. When she does, I leave the room for a few hours. If she follows me into the next room, I leave the house for a couple of hours. I do communicate to her that I staill care about her and that I will return when things are calmer. This is how I protect one of my boundaries.

Note that I am ONLY controlling MY behavior in this scenario. There is nothing that I can do to force others to do or not do anything, so, I do what is within my power and take actions that I have influence over. This concept of not attempting to control others really has to be taken to an absolute extreme. Only then can we truly understand it. I cannot control other people. If I want to, I can tell others what I would like, and I can tell others what I will do if I do not get my way... .  unfortunately, telling someone with BPD tends to trigger them and only causes more acting out. I've just found that it works better in my relationship to do what I need to do... .  I don't need my wife's approval to protect my boundaries. Doe that make sense?

[AllyCat7]

Thanks for your answer! It does make sense. I had to work on some of that stuff with my previous ex (the externalizer BPD guy). The one I've been dealing with now is trickier. But I am still learning from your reply and from others how I may have handled things differently. There were times that I asked for my demands to be met, after which he "friend-zoned" me and I was cool with that. When he tried to pull me back in, I came back too easily without discussing our issues. I should NOT have done that. I should have either stayed in friend zone or gotten back with him but only after discussing the issue to try to make a change. I'll keep that in mind for the future if he ever comes back around.

Btw, this is soo true:

If I want to, I can tell others what I would like, and I can tell others what I will do if I do not get my way... .  unfortunately, telling someone with BPD tends to trigger them and only causes more acting out.

They do act out when you do that. It's crazy. Mine would give me serious silent treatments, talk to other girls, etc. But then when he would come back around he would try to meet that need. It was nice of him to try, but all the crap that happened in between really hurt. They can be such rebels! My brother is like this, too (I notice he has some BPD traits). If I ask him to do something, his immediate answer is always  no. Then when I walk away not caring, he comes around and does it. Or if I tell him to "Just forget it. I don't need it anymore." THEN he'll do it. Serious passive aggression.

Anyway, thanks again!