Has anyone had any success with a BPD internalizer (aka Silent/Waif)?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello All,

I have beeen in a relationship with two guys who had uBPD. First was an externalizer (outward rage, aggression, clinginess, enmeshment) and the second was an internalizer (passive aggression, silent treatment, lots of cheating, fear of engulfment). The latter are also sometimes called "waifs" or, if male, "casanovas". I've been on/off again with the second one for 2 years now, but I believe we are most likely done as of last night.

I noticed that my first seemed to be more high-functioning relationship-wise. He was really clingy, but he could handle intimacy for long periods, it seemed. I'm not sure how much of that had to do with the fact that he never completely won me over, so he was in the "chase" phase for the duration of our relationship. But it didn't seem he was emotionally invested in anyone but me throughout the entire relationship. He was very loyal.

The second one, the internalizer, seems to be a lot less functioning when in relationships. He totally shuts down when things get intense and would almost always push me away or triangulate with other girls after getting emotionally close. I heard from others that he was talking to other girls behind my back, and not just as friends, but talking to them about marriage and whatnot. It took me to finally get re-added back to his Facebook page the other day to finally see it for my own eyes. He has a history of this type of behavior with his ex-fiance, as well. It's why she broke up with him.

I can see success with an externalizer being somewhat possible, if one learns how to set boundaries and sort of "discipline" them. But the second type seems MUCH more difficult to manage. The cheating seems to really be out of control with these types. And they also seem more likely to paint you black and move on to the next one rather quickly, maybe keeping you around just in case they dysregulate with the new person.

Has anyone here had any success with this type? If so, how did you achieve it? How did you control the cheating and the silent treatments? How did you secure a committment? Did they seek therapy? If so, did it help?

I don't see myself ending up with this guy on a realistic level. I doubt he will try to come back to me. And, if so, I'm not sure I even want to deal with that craziness anymore. But I'm still curious if there has been any success among this type. They seem like a handful!

[AllyCat7]

Hello All,

I have beeen in a relationship with two guys who had uBPD. First was an externalizer (outward rage, aggression, clinginess, enmeshment) and the second was an internalizer (passive aggression, silent treatment, lots of cheating, fear of engulfment). The latter are also sometimes called "waifs" or, if male, "casanovas". I've been on/off again with the second one for 2 years now, but I believe we are most likely done as of last night.

I noticed that my first seemed to be more high-functioning relationship-wise. He was really clingy, but he could handle intimacy for long periods, it seemed. I'm not sure how much of that had to do with the fact that he never completely won me over, so he was in the "chase" phase for the duration of our relationship. But it didn't seem he was emotionally invested in anyone but me throughout the entire relationship. He was very loyal.

The second one, the internalizer, seems to be a lot less functioning when in relationships. He totally shuts down when things get intense and would almost always push me away or triangulate with other girls after getting emotionally close. I heard from others that he was talking to other girls behind my back, and not just as friends, but talking to them about marriage and whatnot. It took me to finally get re-added back to his Facebook page the other day to finally see it for my own eyes. He has a history of this type of behavior with his ex-fiance, as well. It's why she broke up with him.

I can see success with an externalizer being somewhat possible, if one learns how to set boundaries and sort of "discipline" them. But the second type seems MUCH more difficult to manage. The cheating seems to really be out of control with these types. And they also seem more likely to paint you black and move on to the next one rather quickly, maybe keeping you around just in case they dysregulate with the new person.

Has anyone here had any success with this type? If so, how did you achieve it? How did you control the cheating and the silent treatments? How did you secure a committment? Did they seek therapy? If so, did it help?

I don't see myself ending up with this guy on a realistic level. I doubt he will try to come back to me. And, if so, I'm not sure I even want to deal with that craziness anymore. But I'm still curious if there has been any success among this type. They seem like a handful!

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[briefcase]

Hi Alleycat and 

Many members here have learned the skills necessary for dealing with silent treatments and partners who "internalize" some of their emotions.  Our goal is not really to control our partners or gain control over their actions.  We learn to control ourselves and learn our own boundaries.  Take some time to read through our Lessons!

[AllyCat7]

Thanks Briefcase! I will check them out. Do the lessons cover how to deal with cheating? This was the hardest for me. How does one create boundaries for cheating without giving ultimatums? Or is that the only way?

[MaybeSo]

Boundaries are for you. They are not about someone else. Boundaries  are informed by your own beliefs and values; eg, what you will or won't tolerate, the kind of lifestyle you choose to live.  If you value fidelity, that value is generally communicated at some point in a relationship, not as an ultimatum but in sharing information about values and who you are. A person who values fidelity highly, would find it very hard to drastically change that value, and would not likely be very compatible with someone that didn't value fidelity.

Some folks do not value fidelity highly. Your (ex?) has demonstrated by his actions he does not value fidelity; he perhaps puts more value in freedom, exploration and anxiety reduction by engaging with others, based on his behavior. It would be very hard for a person that valued these things highly to change. They could change, but the value change would have to come from inside.

Neither person can force or bully or demand the other change; often folks try, and it just becomes a toxic power struggle with lots of head games.

Better to accept people as the are, based on their actions, then "creating boundaries" to change them. if you value fidelity, then your boundary naturally follows; " I don't invest myself in a relationship with a Cheater." that value is your job to enforce for yourself; it has little or nothing to do with the other person, other that noticing and accepting who they show you they are and what they value by their actions.

[AllyCat7]

Thanks, MaybeSo! Your answer was very helpful.

I think I may have made things worse with my guy because in the beginning, I did call him out on some stuff, but I also gave him the impression that we can't control if the other person is going to talk to others, but if at any point you like someone more than me, then tell me and vice versa, etc. I thought that by not giving strong boundaries with that, that it would prevent him from doing it, but I think I may have inadvertandly given him permission. And the funny thing was that even though I was the one who said that, I was 10000% loyal. I learned a lot from this experience, though, and how to handle such a person in the future. I think working on the loyalty issue at the beginning is the most important. And walking away is easier then, too.

[briefcase]

Maybe to start, think of boundaries as an internal code that you live by--not rules or guidelines for other people to follow. 

An ultimatum is simply one way to communicate your boundary, and the consequences of violating it, to another person.  It's not the boundary itself.

Fidelity involves a special kind of boundary that I think of as a "deal breaker" boundary.  In other words, violations of these kinds of boundaries can lead to the end of a relationship.  Have you had a chance to read the lessons?

[AllyCat7]

Hi Briefcase, Sorry I never replied to your last post. Thanks for the info!

Will check out the lessons this weekend. I think me and my guy are broken up at the moment (no surprise there ), but I'll keep them in mind in case we reconcile.