Serious Boundary Help

[GreenTea]

I'm at the end... .  I'm pretty sure. I have been told too many times that I am enabling my DH (he definitely exhibits BPD traits as well) by staying with him. I'm at the point right now that I am done with the rages, I'm done with the criticism, negativity, blame, etc. It's not healthy for our 5D nor me, nor him. I walk out during the rages with our daughter. He is now going to bed between 6:30 and 7:30 every night. There is NO communication between us except for necessary things that must be discussed when two people live together. During dinner, he will eat within 2-3 minutes, clear his place, and go lie down in bed. When I bring things up that concern my feelings or emotional needs, he twists my words around and makes it seem that I am the one that hurt him so badly. I can NOT go on living like this. I'm losing me.

I want a partner that participates in the daily "normal" family routine, that acknowledges me when I come and go, that asks me how my day is and then stays to listen for the answer, that laughs, that engages in LIFE and not just by himself, but with US. I don't think I'm asking for the world. But as it is, I am done. We live overseas. I would be sending him back to the States.

My boundary would be that I will not continue this relationship until we are both healthy. This means that he seeks treatment for at least a year, and I too. Then we can evaluate where we stand as a couple. Is this a fair boundary?

[Rose Tiger]

Hi Greentea 

What you are describing reminds me of Therapeutic Separation.  Here's a link about it, does this sound like something you might wish to pursue?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686.0

[tuum est61]

Is this a fair boundary?

Greentea,

Why is it important that the boundary be "fair"?  Is he being "fair" to you by not communicating with you?  Is it "fair" that you don't get the "normal" courtesies of living as a family - like the simple act of acknowledging your coming and going?  When we are involved with a pwBPD, keep in mind that our concept of fairness can get a little skewed towards being unfair to us.  :)on't worry, it is very unlikely you are going to do anything anywhere close to unfair.

Setting boundaries is about actions you take to reverse the cycle of conflict and start taking care of yourself - and is a way to start being "fair" to yourself.  

My boundary would be that I will not continue this relationship until we are both healthy. This means that he seeks treatment for at least a year, and I too.

But to answer your question, yes this is a "fair" boundary but it is "fairly big"   It is like trying to eat the whole elephant that grew up in your care all at once.  You are posting on the undecided board and your post reveals that you aren't sure about "being done".  Maybe there's some boundaries that you can apply before you actually get to the point of separation.

For a long time - regardless of how unappreciative she was - I made my W lunch and breakfast and lots of dinners too. I was nearly fanatic as to how dedicated I was.   It was something that I did when we first got together and I was NOT going to stop doing it.  (We both go to work on the same schedule)  As I learned about BPD and the need for me to start looking after myself, I stopped making the breakfasts and lunches - not completely and not with any pronouncements, fanfare or fighting about it - I just reduced my effort significantly.  In my case, this small adjustment seemed to lead to more recognition and appreciation.  I still do a lot of cooking but my W pretty well looks after breakfast and lunch on her own - unless she asks me to prepare it, which I happily do.  Along with  other things that I stopped doing for her or started doing for me, my reduced “devotion” to lunch makinghas increased her appreciation of me.  

If having him eat in 3 minutes and not talk to you is unacceptable, then stop preparing dinner and/or don't eat with him.  Eat what you want and on your own schedule or based on D5.  He's a big boy - he undoubtedly won't starve to death.

You don’t have to focus on the meal thing -  perhaps its something else.  If he goes to bed at 5 or 6, take D5 out for some mother daughter activities.  There’s no need to hang around while he’s sleeping or off by himself.  

The main thing is to change things up – and make it something or things that you can do right now – not the big hard to keep promise about going to therapy or leaving.  

So tell us about some potential somewhat smaller and immediate boundaries that you think you could set.  

And also tell us more about how you leave when your husband rages at D5.  You take her with you when he does that, right?  


 

[Somewhere]

Heading the same way with us.


No screaming at me or the kids.

No fantasy stories or lying.

Get in therapy, stay in therapy, get cleaned up.

No Recycle.


Not saying I can make her do all or even any of that -- but are my minimum starting standards.

[tuum est61]

Heading the same way with us.


No screaming at me or the kids.

No fantasy stories or lying.

Get in therapy, stay in therapy, get cleaned up.

No Recycle.


Not saying I can make her do all or even any of that -- but are my minimum starting standards.

Somewhere,

Living with a person with BPD is immensely difficult.  I am glad you found us. 

The boundaries you reference are boundaries you are setting on her behaviours.  As you note, you are "not saying I can make her do all or even any of that." 

I can tell you for certain you won't be able to.  And in the end, if you could, would you still be living with the same person - the one you fell in love with?   Would you even be the same person at the end of it?

Boundary setting is about actions YOU take to deal with THEIR behaviours.  What actions do you think you could take if she screams, lies, and won't go to therapy? 

To help you out with what it means to set boundaries in the context of living with a person with BPD, have a look at BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

[Somewhere]

Living with a person with BPD is immensely difficult.  I am glad you found us. 

Me, too.  Thank you.

The boundaries you reference are boundaries you are setting on her behaviours.  As you note, you are "not saying I can make her do all or even any of that." 

I can tell you for certain you won't be able to. 

Agreed.

And in the end, if you could, would you still be living with the same person - the one you fell in love with?   Would you even be the same person at the end of it?

Dunno.  These have only been problems of the past few years.

Except may the fantasy stuff.  Sort of guessing she has been studying and playing Victim-for-Life for a long time, now.

Boundary setting is about actions YOU take to deal with THEIR behaviours.  What actions do you think you could take if she screams, lies, and won't go to therapy? 

Short Term?  Shut them down and get me and the kids help and away.

Long run?  I will get me and the kids out of Crazy Land.

To help you out with what it means to set boundaries in the context of living with a person with BPD, have a look at BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

Thank you.  Studying that and some other refs.

[GreenTea]

Rose Tiger: I think this is more than a therapuetic separation. We did separate for 3 months last year with specific things to work on and with the goal of taking steps to make things better. However, after the counseling was over last summer in the States, and since we've been back "home" overseas, things have not progressed and things are, in a sense, getting worse. My current T said that a separation for at least a year would be the best and with documentation from a T that he is making progress or even VTCing with his T, if he chooses to see one. At this point, he sees me as the problem: "He's gone to counseling (him 3 months, I've been in at least 2 years). He's done his work. He's fixed. It's my turn now."

Tuum: Of course I leave with my D!    Sorry for not making that clear. I tell him in a calm voice that I am ready to talk with him whenever we are both calm whether that's an hour or a day from the rage, or whatever, but I refuse to engage in a conversation when one or both of us is angry, and I walk away. If and when he follows me into a room, my daughter and I leave the home. He's usually in bed when we get back, and it's always before 7:30pm. I know he's depressed, but not seeking help, not even acknowledging that he needs help is wearing me down.

He cooks dinner every night (he's a fabulous chef!). That's all he has going for him, according to him. He'll clear his place, my daughter and I will continue to sit at the table, eat, and talk. I guess I am the type of person who hates conflict, dislikes confrontation; but by NOT doing things to prevent his rages, I am losing myself. A separation is something that I can do to change things, but this time I need to stick to my boundaries and NOT get back with him until said time. Not what I want, but maybe it is for the best. Living a life of peace without a partner is better than unnecessary rage and drama from said partner.