Was this a variation of Fear of Abandonement?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi,

In my attempt to heal and make sense of things after the final breakup, I vacillate between understanding the concept of radical acceptance and still trying to figure out things that happened between us.  I know it's probably useless, but my mind wanders in these directions.

There was an incident in the middle of the night; I woke up to hear my dogs barking in the backyard-the kind of distressed bark that says, "I've got something!"  I ran out in the pitch black with a flashlight and saw my dogs had cornered a fawn.  The baby was the size of housecat, teeny tiny.  I ran inside to get dog leashes and all the commotion had woken up my bf.  I was shaky and nervous and out of breath quickly told him what was happening and ran back out.  I leashed the excited dogs and got them inside and ran back outside to see about the baby.  My bf was sitting up in the bed, not making any attempt to move, help me or investigate.  I went out and I could hear the mama deer huffing over the wire fence and saw her frantically pouncing back and forth trying to decide what to do.  She could have jumped over the fence, but I scooped up the baby and gently put her through the wire (which was 4" x 4" square) but the baby just collapsed right there.  It was breathing heavily, so I assumed it was frightened and I thought I'd just hang back on the porch and let the mother do her thing.   

I quietly went back inside and told bf what had happened.  He just looked at me.  I told him I was going to sit outside for a while to see if the fawn moved, and asked him if he wanted to come out and see it.  He said no.  Yes, it was the middle of the night, and I am an animal lover, so I just thought-hey, whatever.  I sat outside for about an hour watching the mother nudging the fawn with her nose and the little thing did eventually wobble underneath a bush about ten feet away.  With nothing more I could do, I went back inside and bf was still sitting up in bed, staring into space. 

Next morning, first thing I did was head towards the back door to check on the deer.  He said with evil in his voice, "Are you going back out there to see about the f--- deer that kept me up all night?  The f--- deer that kept you from sleeping with me?  I lose my woman to a f---deer?  A f--- deer just like the one that ran into my car and cost me $1000.?"  I was so shocked and dumbfounded.  I asked how me showing care and concern for a scared baby animal had turned into this?  Why was he angry?  And you're blaming a deer for running into your car?

This became a two day silent treatment fest.  I wrote him a short letter-no response.  Email-no response.  When we finally got back on course, I thought it safe to ask him why the ":)eer Incident" had affected him so negatively.  He said, "What are you taking about?  I don't even remember what deer you're talking about."   I knew it would make things regress if I questioned any more, so I shut up.  One more thing to wonder about for years.

In general, I got much, much grief for showing affection to my dogs. It was used as a weapon against me over and over again.  He was sporadic with the dogs-sometimes loving, sometimes awful.  One of them is very sensitive and especially close to me and he actually made fun of her a few times.  He screamed at the other when she had a spinal cord injury, on heavy pain meds-for urinating in her crate.  When I defended her, he made fun of me. 

Did that demonstration of concern make him feel less loved?  Was it experienced as a rejection of him?  Abandonment?  Is this why he refused to come outside that night and sulked in the bedroom?  I think me showing love to anyone, i.e., girlfriends, antique shopping, anything other than him (which he says I never did- "I see you express your love to everyone except me"made him feel jealous.  Jealousy is insecurity.  Obviously the animals sometimes felt threatening to him, but did he imagine I was going to leave him for an animal?  My mind says of course not, that doesn't even make sense, but here's the part where I usually sigh, look at myself in the mirror and tell myself... .  "He has a mental illness.  Things are not going to make sense." 

I just want to understand... .  sigh... .  

pink

[pinkpeony]

Hi,

In my attempt to heal and make sense of things after the final breakup, I vacillate between understanding the concept of radical acceptance and still trying to figure out things that happened between us.  I know it's probably useless, but my mind wanders in these directions.

There was an incident in the middle of the night; I woke up to hear my dogs barking in the backyard-the kind of distressed bark that says, "I've got something!"  I ran out in the pitch black with a flashlight and saw my dogs had cornered a fawn.  The baby was the size of housecat, teeny tiny.  I ran inside to get dog leashes and all the commotion had woken up my bf.  I was shaky and nervous and out of breath quickly told him what was happening and ran back out.  I leashed the excited dogs and got them inside and ran back outside to see about the baby.  My bf was sitting up in the bed, not making any attempt to move, help me or investigate.  I went out and I could hear the mama deer huffing over the wire fence and saw her frantically pouncing back and forth trying to decide what to do.  She could have jumped over the fence, but I scooped up the baby and gently put her through the wire (which was 4" x 4" square) but the baby just collapsed right there.  It was breathing heavily, so I assumed it was frightened and I thought I'd just hang back on the porch and let the mother do her thing.   

I quietly went back inside and told bf what had happened.  He just looked at me.  I told him I was going to sit outside for a while to see if the fawn moved, and asked him if he wanted to come out and see it.  He said no.  Yes, it was the middle of the night, and I am an animal lover, so I just thought-hey, whatever.  I sat outside for about an hour watching the mother nudging the fawn with her nose and the little thing did eventually wobble underneath a bush about ten feet away.  With nothing more I could do, I went back inside and bf was still sitting up in bed, staring into space. 

Next morning, first thing I did was head towards the back door to check on the deer.  He said with evil in his voice, "Are you going back out there to see about the f--- deer that kept me up all night?  The f--- deer that kept you from sleeping with me?  I lose my woman to a f---deer?  A f--- deer just like the one that ran into my car and cost me $1000.?"  I was so shocked and dumbfounded.  I asked how me showing care and concern for a scared baby animal had turned into this?  Why was he angry?  And you're blaming a deer for running into your car?

This became a two day silent treatment fest.  I wrote him a short letter-no response.  Email-no response.  When we finally got back on course, I thought it safe to ask him why the ":)eer Incident" had affected him so negatively.  He said, "What are you taking about?  I don't even remember what deer you're talking about."   I knew it would make things regress if I questioned any more, so I shut up.  One more thing to wonder about for years.

In general, I got much, much grief for showing affection to my dogs. It was used as a weapon against me over and over again.  He was sporadic with the dogs-sometimes loving, sometimes awful.  One of them is very sensitive and especially close to me and he actually made fun of her a few times.  He screamed at the other when she had a spinal cord injury, on heavy pain meds-for urinating in her crate.  When I defended her, he made fun of me. 

Did that demonstration of concern make him feel less loved?  Was it experienced as a rejection of him?  Abandonment?  Is this why he refused to come outside that night and sulked in the bedroom?  I think me showing love to anyone, i.e., girlfriends, antique shopping, anything other than him (which he says I never did- "I see you express your love to everyone except me"made him feel jealous.  Jealousy is insecurity.  Obviously the animals sometimes felt threatening to him, but did he imagine I was going to leave him for an animal?  My mind says of course not, that doesn't even make sense, but here's the part where I usually sigh, look at myself in the mirror and tell myself... .  "He has a mental illness.  Things are not going to make sense." 

I just want to understand... .  sigh... .  

pink

[bpdspell]

Hey Pink Peony,

Read all that you can about BPD. It's a lot to process but it helps to arm yourself with the facts. It's a real serious mental disorder and not to be taken lightly. At the heart people with BPD are scared, toxic, broken and empty emotional children who are living in constant terror survival mode. It is often the only way they know how to get their needs met. It's all very primary.

Fear of abandonment is a huge part of what triggers the mental illness of BPD. Usually the small things that they're raging and angry about have nothing to do with the actual facts of the story but are more about the triggers of their own insecurities. They are very insecure people who don't love or like themselves. When the devaluation process began my ex used to start fights over the dumbest things. Communication became so warped that I walked on eggshells worrying and avoiding talking about things that I know he'd twist with his pretzel logic.

Pink Peony. Your mind will look back and wonder what went wrong but as you learn about BPD you will see that the sickness was always there laying dormant until their masks are dropped.

Spell

[Sabine]

I think it was. When my ex used to behave this way towards other people, my interests, family, or anything that took away any attention from him, he'd start up with some weird childlike argument. He was always saying how I didn't really love him. After we broke up he wrote me a really long letter and said things like, "I was always afraid that you wouldn't be there for me or stay my girlfriend... .  " like he was trying to justify why he acted like such a frightened little boy when we were together. It's imbedded in his soul that nobody could actually love him. It's the worst part of the disorder in my opinion... .  the warped thinking they have on a constant basis and it's got to be a nightmare to live like that!

Did you ever get a puppy?

[pinkpeony]

Hi Spell and Sabine,

Thanks for those replies.  I am reading everything, everywhere, and I do see things now that happened in our very first conversation that were right there in front of me.  Seriously, I sometimes gasp out loud when I read certain things that explain some of the "off" things he did from the start. 

Maybe I am in semi-denial that this really is a serious mental illness, so hearing it over and over is helpful.  What gets me is how he could be so totally normal sometimes!  Then go into "his BPD world" and be scary, destructive and downright mean and nasty, and then back again.  There were times I was soo glad I didn't comment on his ugliness because 12 minutes later he'd be making a joke and I would have ruined the day by starting something. 

Is the insecurity or not loving themselves why he bragged about past huge success in his career (no proof, no savings), college (lost the diploma), the many houses he'd bought and sold (didn't know what a water heater looked like), all the material things he used to have (gave away just before meeting me)?  In retrospect, I think he was lying about most everything.  Funny thing, I loved him for what he actually was but will he ever know that? 

This rumination is a grizzly bear!  I find myself saying and thinking the same things over and again.  I have never experienced something as profound as this.  Each time I think I have a grasp of it, something new starts running through my head.  The time he did... .  the time he said... .  why he didn't... .  it's exhausting.  I do see light at the end of the tunnel, my anger and sadness has subsided quite a bit, thanks to everyone sharing so much here.  I jump on often to educate myself for relief and get these questions answered. 

Sabine, that made me laugh about the puppy!  I did not, but I went to Petsmart and asked about ferrets as pets! 

I don't want the puppy to someday be "the dog I got from the breakup" 

Thanks,

pink

[bpdspell]

Maybe I am in semi-denial that this really is a serious mental illness, so hearing it over and over is helpful.  What gets me is how he could be so totally normal sometimes!

Yes. Keep repeating this to yourself. They do not view the world in the same lens as you and I.

My mother used to tell me that "normal" is the name of a cycle on the wash machine. It's not that our BPD's can't be intelligent; it's that they're emotionally undercooked. That is the paradox of BPD. There are many kinds of intelligences and BPD's are stunted on emotional intelligence. BPD is a mental disorder; but it's also an attachment disorder triggered by emotions. My ex was very intelligent but very emotionally reckless. Now that I'm out of it I see his intelligence more as conniving, bullying and manipulative.

Is the insecurity or not loving themselves why he bragged about past huge success in his career (no proof, no savings), college (lost the diploma), the many houses he'd bought and sold (didn't know what a water heater looked like), all the material things he used to have (gave away just before meeting me)?  In retrospect, I think he was lying about most everything.

They're not all insecure liars but many of them are due to their lack of core identity. They kinda make themselves up as they go along... .  like throwing mud against the wall and seeing what sticks. My ex was a world class liar but the lies have nothing to do with us. It's all about covering up their shame and their overinflated egos due to their narcissistic nature. My ex had a way of puffing himself in grandiose ways when he was the furthest from that truth. In reality he was a high school drop out, a horrible father, a womanizer, an abuser, and an entitled needy flawed character who always had a handy victim story ready for your Kleenex.

If you suspect your ex was a liar then he probably was. BPD's lack integrity. That means there will always be a wide river valley between the words they speak and the actions that back them up.  My ex claimed he loved being a father; but he was only there for his daughter in superficial non accountable ways.

Be patient with yourself. It will take time for your mind to pump the brakes on rumination. Understanding BPD better will help you to depersonalize his behavior.

Spell

[almost789]

Its all about them. Sounds like he was upset as your attention and care was on something else and not him. Notice how he says... .  the f... .  king deer kept you from sleeping with me... .  they want to be number one and only on your list. Many of them have resentment of their own children because they get more attention than them.

[pinkpeony]

Geez, the more I learn the more I am overwhelmed.  There are so many conversations and events from our past that now glow eerily with warning. 

Many of them have resentment of their own children because they get more attention than them.

He told me he started using cocaine when his first child was born, and then divorced after his second and moved to a foreign country for 15 years.  Two great ways to avoid a situation.  Once I mentioned his children's names and he laid into me to NEVER insult his kids, like he was Father of the Year. 

Now that I'm out of it I see his intelligence more as conniving, bullying and manipulative.

Before we physically met (met online) he used the word bullying often.  If I disagreed with him in an email, he'd say I was bullying him, he hated bullys, things I did were forms of bullying, etc., I heard it so much (but since I'm no bully, I just blew it off) I thought-wow, this guy must have had a rough time with bullys in school or something.  After we met, he NEVER used the word, ever.  Where did all my bullying behavior go?  He did call me conniving and manipulative, though.  And passive-aggressive, controlling, bossy, elementary, sneaky... .  all things that I thought about him!  Sometimes I felt he could read my mind and quickly used the word I was thinking about him on me.  Then once he accused me, if I said "no, that's you" that just sounded ridiculous, effectively shutting me up in frustration and confusion.  He was able to out-word me every time.  Talk about projection-how crafty and smoothly he was able to twist this up and apply it to his advantage.

You know if I ever questioned him on something I suspected was a lie, I see now that he went crazy in another direction that put me in the hot seat.  Our natural inclination is to defend ourselves, or to try to clarify what we really meant because it was not taken as intended.  I remember feeling so awful that I'd hurt him and would try anything to get him to understand what I'd said, which turned into me "being manipulative".  aaauugh!  I questioned him about a woman I'd never heard of calling him at 11pm.  He said she was a "friend in need" (omg I could slap myself right now, ) and furiously yelling and waving his arms, finger in my face, that he was not the type of person to deny a friend who needed help, and what a nasty person I was being so selfish, uncaring and unkind to suggest that he should, and that I better never question his morals and desire to help people!  wwwhhhaaattt?

It will take time for your mind to pump the brakes on rumination. Understanding BPD better will help you to depersonalize his behavior.

I am making that my goal.  To understand that most of what happened was not about me, to take responsibility for what was, and to stop having wafts of anger, memories and questions take over my day.  I think good things too, and then miss him so much, but I have got to force myself to believe and remember all parts of him are one and the same.  This has been difficult.  I think of pleasant, wonderful things he said to me, about me and our relationship, and have to accept that they might be baloney just like everything else.  It's bewildering to think that 2 years of everything meant nothing. 

At least it's only two years, these afflicted people have lifetimes of this.  It's very sad. 

pink

[gottafixit]

SummerT321 hit the nail on the head!  I have to be so cautious when speaking about our daughter with my exBPDw.  She thinks ":)addy protects her" and resents everything positive about her.  She is a wonderful successful 26 year old professional who has done it on her own (I could only help her secretly) and has everything positie in her life except her mother who verbally abused and punished her as a teenage child (crucila years for a girl) and then kicked her out of the house at 18 becasue she brought home a kitten without asking permission.  Believe it or not she convinced our useless T that it was the right thing to do?  Punishment fit the crime?  She was wonderful until our daughter turned adolescent and then, to this day, complains that she has a moth and doesn't know how to talk to her mother?

[seeking balance]

Geez, the more I learn the more I am overwhelmed.  There are so many conversations and events from our past that now glow eerily with warning. 

yes, I did this too - analyzed every word ever said.

What I can tell you now is that analyzing really isn't the "whole" truth either.  Going back to try and figure out every triggered moment is a fruitless effort.  MANY times, our partners were triggered and we didn't know it too.

This ruminating on our part can keep us stuck from processing our own pain.  I now know more about BPD & dbt than many health care professionals... .  I needed the information so I could detach & grieve... .  once I looked at myself, my ex, I then looked around at my family... .  maladaptive coping was everywhere.

Keep processing, keep reading, let yourself feel the grief when you can.

Peace,

SB

[C12P21]

I believe that sometimes the analyzing of the crazy moments is an attempt to make sense of the senseless.

When you think back to that moment, do you remember how you felt when he verbally and emotionally abused you?

I replayed the crazy moments of my marriage for a long time. During this process, a gradual awareness helped me to understand how his outburst, followed by tenderness, hooked me into believing that I was responsible in someway for his outbursts and if I stopped being spontaneous and being "me", he would no longer rage at me. My focus during the marriage had been on him and I was consumed on how to protect myself by changing me, rather than leaving my abuser.

Over time, my memories not only clarified his disorder but also what the raging, the crazy making behavior did to me. Replaying the memories was my attempt to not only accept his mental illness, but to reclaim the lost parts of myself that were consumed in the relationship. Eventually the focus became less about him and more about me.

Reliving the memories took time and I remember feeling so impatient that I just couldn't move on, but now I realize that sometimes letting go is remembering, grieving, acceptance and rebuilding.

You are getting through it. And by the way, your rescue of that little fawn would endure you to a person capable of empathy and compassion, you would be the wonder girl of the woods.

His response was all about him, his need to control, his jealousy, his selfishness, and his attempt to devalue the kindness you exhibited toward a innocent animal that was terrified and defenseless.

At the core of you, is that beauty...

[pinkpeony]

seeking balance,

This is interesting-I have recently seen behaviors everywhere that are now questionable, including my own and what is "wrong" with me!  It makes me wonder a lot, about a lot.  In my education, I feel like I'm seeing people and the world for the first time.  

I agree with what you said about triggers.  It's hard to say what the real truth is/was.  I could not figure out what was happening right in front of me, so how the heck could I really know what was going on underneath?  I can say that he was secretive and closed off at times, unresponsive, incongruent in his behavior from day to day, he got teary and cried more than is acceptable (sadly, for a man) in our culture, asked me incessantly how I felt about him, and got angry in the blink of an eye when nothing tangible nothing had happened.  His constant internal struggles are so obvious to me now.  

I think I am on the right path.  

Thanks, pink

[Sabine]

Its all about them. Sounds like he was upset as your attention and care was on something else and not him. Notice how he says... .  the f... .  king deer kept you from sleeping with me... .  they want to be number one and only on your list. Many of them have resentment of their own children because they get more attention than them.

I was going to add something along those lines about children. I don't have any and neither does he and thank God there were not children involved when we were going out!

He is/was dating someone else when we first got together (I didn't know it at the time), anyway, she has a child who is handicapped and is in a wheelchair. I can only imagine the pure hell that woman goes through with having two 'children' who need extra, extra attention! One deserving of it and the other just immature and self-centered.

I'm so grateful to have learned what I know of BPD so that I never have to put myself in that place again. It's been such a freeing experience to learn there was no way I could have ever fulfilled his need for attention.

[pinkpeony]

Hi C12P21,

Thanks for calling me Wonder Girl of The Woods!  That made me laugh and even after all this time, that little comment validated my effort.  And I still see the mom and now big baby back there sometimes.

I agree with you-making sense of the senseless is exactly it!  I remember so many times thinking I did not start that argument.  I am, however, so grateful that I pondered the senseless crazy-ness and desperately started reading.  For six months or so, I was watching him with this secret information and matching up bits and pieces and confirming my suspicions.  Looking back, it gave me strength when I could not find anything else to rely on and help me.  I, too, stopped being me and I felt like a caged bird, stuck, no flying anywhere.  I feel good being out of that cage.

Thanks for your words,

pink

[refuge]

ive been told (and experienced first hand) that when you start to hear them say things over and over again like "XXX... .  You have to be here for me!" ... .  it's the abandonment. They think in terms of fusion. When you begin to inject aspects of your life or your needs it's "felt" and perceived as abuse or not loving them. It's the same feeling a baby experiences when the mother is unresponsive to it's needs... no different ! except all the above is wrapped up in a fully grown person... When it seems they suddenly go from being perfectly rational and grounded to crazy it's because they are switching between rational "adult" ego states and "irrational" emotional parts that use projections and projective identification ...

[Rose Tiger]

I see it as an enmeshment issue.  He did not care.  You did.  It's like his foot or arm suddenly having a mind of it's own.  Ex loves lasagna, so I do too.  Not really but he had it in his head it was a favorite of mine.  Didn't care if he thought I loved lasagna, just thought it weird, that we have to like the same things, think the same way or all hell broke loose.  Just my two cents.

Did you ever see the deers again?  You are so sweet! 

[pinkpeony]

Rose Tiger,

I do see them, fairly often, and it makes me happy.  And last summer, a new mother (maybe the same one, I don't know) left another fawn in the corner of my yard (where the dogs cannot go, !) during the day and came back to get her every night, as they do when they are looking for food. 

In retrospect, I now see lots of variations of this abandonment issue running constantly in the background of our relationship.  He'd call my cel 10-15 times in a row if I didn't answer it at work (because it was on silent, hello... .  I'm at work... .  ) or ask me to bring him some random unecessary something at his work on my day off but then not need it after I got there, etc.

What I found infuriating was his matter-of-fact snotty attitude like he was "teaching me a lesson" or schooling me on how to treat him while none of those lessons applied to him.  If I called him twice, like, let's say my car stalled on the highway or the restaurant was out of the item he asked me to pick up for dinner-real stuff-he'd give me the third degree if I asked why he didn't answer my call, "I... .  told... .  you... .  I... .  was... .  watching... .  TV" and he let it be known in such a way that I knew saying anything else would escalate into ME instigating big trouble on a perfectly happy day for nothing.  This memory makes me angry!  The twisting of everything like it all was only my fault-and me frantically examining myself for fault, how to improve, and at his suggestion, me buying a book on how to be more mature in a relationship.  omg.

Wow.  Everyday is a new lightbulb.

pink

[Rose Tiger]

Must keep the peace but rules keep changing.  Pencil in plans in case ex is not speaking to me the day of the event.  Smile and shrug when ex suddenly exits while visiting friends because he is triggered.  Hope the other driver that he is getting into a rage over gets away.  Try to find little ways to please him.  Have anxiety attack when ex starts to get that look.  Start to go crazy from not being able to discuss anything.

I get tired just remembering it all!

I saw two baby deer once, they were little twins.  I thought I was going to die from the cuteness.    It was double cute overload!

You should of kicked ex out and invited mama and baby in.  Sorry dear, the deers are moving in. 

[pinkpeony]

LOL!  Thanks for making me laugh, I needed that!

pink

[schwing]

Hi Pinkpeony,

In my attempt to heal and make sense of things after the final breakup, I vacillate between understanding the concept of radical acceptance and still trying to figure out things that happened between us.  I know it's probably useless, but my mind wanders in these directions.

I don't think it's "useless."  It is quite human to wish to seek meaning and understanding from one's experiences (especially the painful ones).  I think that those of us who have had BPD relationships, it is helpful to re-view events in our relationship through the lens of "BPD" and so events that were once random and confusing to us can be seen as a part of a larger pattern of behavior; this helps us accept our suspicion of BPD and can feel validating.

There was an incident in the middle of the night; I woke up to hear my dogs barking in the backyard-the kind of distressed bark that says, "I've got something!"  I ran out in the pitch black with a flashlight and saw my dogs had cornered a fawn.  The baby was the size of housecat, teeny tiny.  I ran inside to get dog leashes and all the commotion had woken up my bf.  I was shaky and nervous and out of breath quickly told him what was happening and ran back out.  I leashed the excited dogs and got them inside and ran back outside to see about the baby.  My bf was sitting up in the bed, not making any attempt to move, help me or investigate.  I went out and I could hear the mama deer huffing over the wire fence and saw her frantically pouncing back and forth trying to decide what to do.  She could have jumped over the fence, but I scooped up the baby and gently put her through the wire (which was 4" x 4" square) but the baby just collapsed right there.  It was breathing heavily, so I assumed it was frightened and I thought I'd just hang back on the porch and let the mother do her thing.  

I quietly went back inside and told bf what had happened.  He just looked at me.  I told him I was going to sit outside for a while to see if the fawn moved, and asked him if he wanted to come out and see it.  He said no.  Yes, it was the middle of the night, and I am an animal lover, so I just thought-hey, whatever.  I sat outside for about an hour watching the mother nudging the fawn with her nose and the little thing did eventually wobble underneath a bush about ten feet away.  With nothing more I could do, I went back inside and bf was still sitting up in bed, staring into space.  

It is impossible to know what is going on inside the mind of any other person.  But I can see that your event might have triggered him in several respects.  Waking up in the middle of the night, to find your partner gone -- have I been abandoned?  The dogs are barking at a cornered and apparently *abandoned* fawn.  Moreover, you seemed to express greater concern over the fawn than you did him -- although you did not know that he was perhaps in distress.  He couldn't tell you he was in distress because that might reveal that he is reacting in a disordered way.  He may have felt that he cannot tell you about his fear of abandonment, because you might abandon him because of this self-perceived flaw.

My understanding of BPD, is that when they are attached to a significant other, they attach in the way an infant attaches to his/her mother/guardian.  The nature of their disorder is that their emotional development has not yet progressed sufficiently to internalize this attachment (as non-disordered people have), and part of the reason they have not reached this development is due to unresolved early trauma (of an abandonment/betrayal nature).  All their subsequent disordered (maladaptive) behaviors, are coping mechanisms that have persisted due to this arrested development: splitting, emotional dysregulation, dissociative behaviors [your bf's immediate reaction of sitting up but not moving sounds like an expression of dissociation], lack of object constancy, etc...

Next morning, first thing I did was head towards the back door to check on the deer.  He said with evil in his voice, "Are you going back out there to see about the f--- deer that kept me up all night?  The f--- deer that kept you from sleeping with me?  I lose my woman to a f---deer?  A f--- deer just like the one that ran into my car and cost me $1000.?"  I was so shocked and dumbfounded.  I asked how me showing care and concern for a scared baby animal had turned into this?  Why was he angry?  And you're blaming a deer for running into your car?  

My interpretation is that something that evening triggered his *fear of abandonment* and the source of his fear of abandonment is that primary abandonment/betrayal trauma.  So his anger, is perhaps, displaced anger which he should feel in recalling an upsetting trauma... .  but perhaps that trauma is so buried inside his psyche that he can only attribute it to the most immediate events.

Perhaps he was angry at the fawn (for being helpless) because he identified with the fawn, who was "abandoned" by the mother, left to the mercy of barking dogs, waiting to be rescued by you.  And you did rescue the fawn (as much as you could) but he is not the fawn, he is/was the boy who suffered his own abandonment trauma during which his mother/guardian was not there to rescue him (or were the perpetrators of that betrayal) but now identifies you as that "mother/guardian."

And if you're supposed to be his "mother/guardian" where were you in the middle of the night when he woke up alarmed expecting to see you with him?  You were out protecting someone else, when you should be protecting him.

There may be some other variations, but these came to my mind most immediately.

This became a two day silent treatment fest.  I wrote him a short letter-no response.  Email-no response.  When we finally got back on course, I thought it safe to ask him why the ":)eer Incident" had affected him so negatively.  He said, "What are you taking about?  I don't even remember what deer you're talking about."   I knew it would make things regress if I questioned any more, so I shut up.  One more thing to wonder about for years.

So the event triggered/upset him so much that his psyche buried it deep into his mind along with all the other triggering upsetting events, buried probably somewhere alongside the actual primary abandonment/betrayal trauma he suffered decades ago as a developing toddler.

In general, I got much, much grief for showing affection to my dogs. It was used as a weapon against me over and over again.  He was sporadic with the dogs-sometimes loving, sometimes awful.  One of them is very sensitive and especially close to me and he actually made fun of her a few times.  He screamed at the other when she had a spinal cord injury, on heavy pain meds-for urinating in her crate.  When I defended her, he made fun of me.  

[Emotionally] he saw your dogs as rival siblings.  And he coveted your attention and love in the same way an abused child might against other challenges to his limited sense of security.

Did that demonstration of concern make him feel less loved?  

I don't think he has internalizes what it feels to be loved.  So he either only feels loved when you are actively giving him direct attention, or else he does not feel it and sees that you are giving that attention to someone/something else.  Consider looking up "lack of object constancy."

Was it experienced as a rejection of him?  Abandonment?

I think the event triggered the recollection of his primary abandonment trauma in some way.  But it is so buried in his psyche, that at best he could only (rationally) interpret his reaction as feeling rejected by you in some way.  

Is this why he refused to come outside that night and sulked in the bedroom?  I think me showing love to anyone, i.e., girlfriends, antique shopping, anything other than him (which he says I never did- "I see you express your love to everyone except me"made him feel jealous.  Jealousy is insecurity.  Obviously the animals sometimes felt threatening to him, but did he imagine I was going to leave him for an animal?  My mind says of course not, that doesn't even make sense, but here's the part where I usually sigh, look at myself in the mirror and tell myself... .  "He has a mental illness.  Things are not going to make sense."  

I just want to understand... .  sigh... .   

It might be helpful to tell you a little bit about my understanding of "object constancy."  When an infant has not yet developed object constancy, what that child does not see, does not exist.  So we can play "pee-ka-boo" and the child is entertained because literality in that child's mind you cease to be (when you face is covered) and magically reappear out of no-where.  This is also why they are so distressed when mother/guardian strays too far way (out of sight) because the fear is that the mother has ceased to exist, and so the child feels abandoned (devaluation).  But the very second mother reappears, all is well (idealization).  As object constancy develops, the child becomes more comfortable straying further and further away from the mother/guardian.  Because that child has internalized the security that even when mother is not in sight, mother has not abandoned the child.  And in later development, that older child can travel and go to school hundreds of miles away from mother, but *still feel* the love and attachment of that mother/guardian even though she is not immediately available.

When one *lacks* object constancy, one cannot *internalize* that security of attachment and love.  So when one is not immediately experiencing the attention of one's "object" (i.e., mother, familial loved love) then one might not *feel* that love that may exist in the psyche of the loved one.  So when you are showing love to anyone *else*, he was probably jealous because he could not recall the love he feels from you as when he is directly receiving attention from you.

He does have a mental illness.  But his mental illness is consistent and one can understand it.

He told me he started using cocaine when his first child was born, and then divorced after his second and moved to a foreign country for 15 years.  Two great ways to avoid a situation.  Once I mentioned his children's names and he laid into me to NEVER insult his kids, like he was Father of the Year.  

In "splitting" behavior, one is either idealized, or devalued.  And this includes self-perception, he can only see himself as either the "Father of the Year" or else he is the worse father anyone could ever have.  There is no shade of grey.  There is no place in between those two extremes.  The minute you suggest anything that might contradict his delusion that he is the best father in the world, then you are pushing him immediately towards considering that he is the worse father in the world.

Before we physically met (met online) he used the word bullying often.  If I disagreed with him in an email, he'd say I was bullying him, he hated bullys, things I did were forms of bullying, etc., I heard it so much (but since I'm no bully, I just blew it off) I thought-wow, this guy must have had a rough time with bullys in school or something.  After we met, he NEVER used the word, ever.  Where did all my bullying behavior go?  He did call me conniving and manipulative, though.  And passive-aggressive, controlling, bossy, elementary, sneaky... .  all things that I thought about him!  Sometimes I felt he could read my mind and quickly used the word I was thinking about him on me.  Then once he accused me, if I said "no, that's you" that just sounded ridiculous, effectively shutting me up in frustration and confusion.  He was able to out-word me every time.  Talk about projection-how crafty and smoothly he was able to twist this up and apply it to his advantage.

It's not "craftiness".  It is delusional and dissociative behavior.  It is a maladaptive coping mechanism that has been fine tuned after decades of heavy use.  It is how he can co-exist with all the negative and destructive feelings/thoughts he has internally -- he simply finds a scapegoat to pin it upon.  Everyone close to him, or who ever will be close to him, is a potential emotional scapegoat.

I am making that my goal.  To understand that most of what happened was not about me, to take responsibility for what was, and to stop having wafts of anger, memories and questions take over my day.  I think good things too, and then miss him so much, but I have got to force myself to believe and remember all parts of him are one and the same.  This has been difficult.  I think of pleasant, wonderful things he said to me, about me and our relationship, and have to accept that they might be baloney just like everything else.  It's bewildering to think that 2 years of everything meant nothing.  

The anger is appropriate when one is dealing with a loss.  I think it is also appropriate to interpret your experience as a kind of abandonment trauma as well.  You were suddenly abandoned/betrayed by someone you trusted deeply for reasons you are currently trying to understand.  You experienced an abandonment trauma, but you have the resources and wherewithal of a fully realized adult.  He does not have this advantage.

Those two years meant nothing to him only in the sense that he will learn/gain nothing from that experience.  Whereas what you stand to learn and gain (about yourself as well as about him), I believe, will prove invaluable.

Best wishes, Schwing

[rosannadanna]

Hey Pinkpeony

I love your name cuz it's my favorite flower!  Also, my next door neighbor raised a baby deer and her name is Bella.  She is grown now and romps around his yard with his dogs; so cute!

How long have you guys been split up?  I was wondering what stage of detachment/grief you are in.  The angry stage is definitely a useful one, especially if we have struggles with codependency and were abused by our partners, as it sounds like you were.  Anger is an "action" emotion and often helps move us along in our detachment process.

Your ex sounds like he had heavy N traits (or maybe even ASPD).  I say this b/c based on the examples you give, he sounds like a batterer.  Even if he has BPD traits, it seems that they manifest in a way that has a sadistic slant.  His treatment of your dogs is alarming to me and I am glad that you are out.  I know it sounds harsh, but it's just my opinion.

Some books you may find helpful to help you through your detachment are any of the codependency books by Melanie Beatty or Pia Melody, Boomerang Love by Lynn Melville, or The Emotionally Abused Women by Beverly Engel.

Take care!

[KellyO]

What I found infuriating was his matter-of-fact snotty attitude like he was "teaching me a lesson" or schooling me on how to treat him while none of those lessons applied to him.

OMG, this! I hated it so much, once I told him I feel like a dog in training  . After some time I just took it, closing my ears and staring at the wall. But... .  that is one part that made me dispice him secretly in my mind. My ex is very similar to yours, minus the huge lies,  I know his past and could check it, and what ever he told me was always true. He lied only when he was threatened by me, and was shamed of something he had done. He certainly twisted the truth, but only when it came to our relationship.

And projection! I hate it. I hate it so much I learned to do shadow work to see how much I project. What happened was, I don't project anymore, and I could see how much he projects. I was always like ?, why does he accuse me of all kinds  absurd things, now I know he was always talking about himself. In the very beginning he said I hate him, he loves me. I was in awe, how can he say I hate him? What have I done so much wrong? Well, he hates himself. And I hated myself too, so we had something in common. I have heard all the typical "you think you are perfect, you are a know-it-all, you must always have the last word, you are arrogant, you are this and that", all with spitting rage and yelling.

And of course, I was abusive, controlling and he was scared of me. When I heard that it was like a knife in my heart, because I was very scared of him (he did not let me leave a room, held my hands and yelled me). He left me in horrible way when I told him he scares me, because he did not want to be with a person who is scared of him. We were supposed to leave for a long planned trip. Not a problem for him, he still dumped me. Forget the trip. Forget all the work we did to make the trip happen. Does not matter when he decides it is perfect time to punish me. There is no sense in any of this. And I was senseless, I wanted him back after 3 months. Did he regret? Not a second. It was all my fault. And dating profiles in the internet? Never happened. If he says I did not see what I saw, and not my sister either saw it, then we did not see it and he has done zero dating profiles. I still wish I would have printed them.

[rosannadanna]

I agree with Schwing that your ex feels that the fawn and your dogs are competition for him.  I bet that you guys stayed together, you would become more brainwashed (see cycle of abuse) and he might have gotten you do something you could never imagaine doing, like getting rid of your dogs to make him happy.  It's so awesome that you are such a good "animal mommy", but I think this would have been an area where your ex would have tried to break you down b/c he wants your attention all to himself (going with my batterer theory above).

But generally also, pwBPD try to triangulate every relationship, even those with our pets.  My BPD tries to do it with my son, but I don't engage.

[almost789]

I agree with Schwing. Thats a really good interpretation. Yes, they recreate their past and place it on who ever is triggering it in the future, subconciously. Interesting he said "what are you talking about?" When you asked him later about it. He can't even remember. Mine used to always do that to me to. Say, "what are you talking about?" when I would bring up something he did. Wow.

[pinkpeony]

I am so grateful and amazed at all this support, understanding and help.  I am generally a private person; when this relationship started seeming bizarre to me, I kept most of it to myself and just tried to work through the difiiculties with my bf.  I knew nothing of BPD then.  When I finally told a good, level-headed friend some of the things that were happening, I requested her painfully truthful opinion and if my shortcomings were causing issues, I wanted to work on them.  I became increasingly avoidant of friends because bf always accused me of sleeping around, and I wanted him to trust me, so I put everything but him on the back burner.  To take him with me around my friends was risky because of his unpredictable behavior; he'd left me in restaurants, yelled at me in public, drove off without me if he got mad, criticized my character, etc.  My few longterm girlfriends know me; I didn't want them to see my weird submissive behavior when I suspected his fuse was short, which could happen anytime.  I just kind of shut down, work was my only outlet.  When things were great, they were great.  We had lots of fun, we laughed, we went on trips, the great part was truly great, he made me happy.  But there was always that demon lurking around the corner-which made me a different person.

When I discovered BPD, I was unbelievably affected.  I secretly read and started my personal educational journey.  I didn't latch onto it right away-I still thought he could just be your average Grade A narcissistic jerk, but the more I read the more I started seeing what I could no longer call coincidences.  I filled a notebook with bullet points and experiences to compare and analyze.  I looked for a DBT specialist, any qualified BPD resources in my area, debated if/how/when to bring it up, or not.  Should I just go myself?  Should we go together?  I confided in that same friend, and although she was polite and listened, I could have told her it was called sdakljgoqewbni, as I think BPD means nothing unless you are affected by it directly.  I guess I personally would not research someone else's medical condition, especially when it's a friend's boyfriend and that friend has the free will to leave a bad relationship... .  and doesn't.  I felt mentioning it often made me seem a bit cuckoo, and I felt I became tiresome with the same old story, week after week.  I stopped talking to anyone, I withdrew from things I normally did, yet I was aware what I was doing was unhealthy and dangerously close to becoming a Lifetime Premiere. 

I truly appreciate all your comments, time spent responding to me, sharing your experiences, making me feel like a real person with a heart and brain again, and just keeping me company in this personal tornado of emotion.  Schwing, I am going to take a day to digest your post, there is a lot of bulk there I want to sit with. 

Thank you,  pink

[pinkpeony]

And dating profiles in the internet? Never happened. If he says I did not see what I saw, and not my sister either saw it, then we did not see it and he has done zero dating profiles. I still wish I would have printed them.

Ta-hol,

When I found six different profiles with shirtless pics of him, I copied and showed him one pic and he said, ":)amn, I'm one good-looking MF! Send me a copy of that pic, I accidentallly deleted my copy."  I was incredulous.  I said, "You're not getting it!  You're lying about being on dating profiles and this is proof.  Do you think this is OK?"  and he said with disinterest, "I haven't been on any date sites in a long time.  Look at how old that picture is!  I have hair!" 

So, even if you had printed proof, it's twistable and explainable in their minds.  He blew me off like I was crazy, and there is nowhere to go after that.  I was shut down and that was that, it was over for him.  He said there was no dating profile, so there was none.  Done.

What is shadow work?

pink

[Rose Tiger]

Dang, that is some incredible lying.  Ex told me once that sometimes he knows he is lying but has to convince himself that he's not.  I don't know how to do a trick like that.

[almost789]

Pink,

His comment about him being one good lookingg MF! ... .  ... .  too much!  They are so arrogant. Mine always when id bring up his profile being active, hed always make up some stories about he was just checking mail or yaddaa yadda... .  BS. Or hed say ' what are you talking about' your crazy... .  

Deny, deflect, project, this is what they do.

[pinkpeony]

Hi Rose,

That is interesting.  Lying to myself but convincing myself that I'm not.  Wow.  I have to say that really slowly to let it sink in.  

I am not surprised, though, thinking back to some of the conversations/arguments we got into.  Conversations that went in zigzags, circles and back again, contradicting themselves.  I'm not Einstein but I certainly never had such trouble trying to converse with someone.  When I'd point things out, earnestly trying to understand what we were talking about, he'd remark that he should slow down to let me catch up, silently criticizing me for my diminshed capacity to comprehend, and visibly priding himself on his superiority.  Before I knew it, we were in full blown war... .  over a paper towel (real) or a carrot (real).  I see it so differently now.

In some ways this is fascinating, albeit very sad.  I am reading a lot about BPD and it really is helping me to get through this, along with so many familiar stories from everyone.  When I miss him, I envision calling him and imagining what I'd hear... .  somewhat aware now of what his reality is, and knowing that I was not what I thought I was to him, nor what I thought he was, to me.  This was a big revelation; I was not the most, the greatest, the best... .  anything, really, just a regular person, like I always thought.  I told a girlfriend once, "He tells me I'm the "most beautiful woman on the planet" and that's just so silly it's meaningless.  It's just dumb, and annoying."  I knew nothing of idealization then.  But I am really curious how this all plays into my insecurities, and I am looking into what codependency means.

When I feel lonely for him, although he didn't manipulate me "purposely", as I now understand, knowing that we were on different playing fields sheds a new light on things.  Kind of like when you find out someone is talking behind your back-you feel differently about them.  It makes it easier to let that achy lonely feeling move along.  

New information brings new realization everyday!

pink

[pinkpeony]

SummerT321,

Checking mail on a dating site?  Isn't that called being active on a dating site? 

, pink

[almost789]

Hehe... .  yes pink normal logic would tell us thats what that means. His BPD logic said, i was just checkin th inbox, no big deal. Then he deleted his profile and told me he did, but i think he just opened a new one,! I stay away from dating sites they are filled with BPD and or other similar personality disordered people.

[benny2]

You were simply paying attention to something other than him. My ex was jealous of my new dog. She is an older dog and stayed right by my  side. She is the sweetest little thing you could ask for. He would not even pet her. He made the comment "now I have been replaced" I did not know what to say. As for the forgetting thing, he did that all the time. When I would ask him, usually later after the silent treatment, about things he had said he would respond "I don't remember saying that. Must be blackouts or something.

[KellyO]

What is shadow work?

Shadow work is something Debbie Ford (find her book "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers" if you are interested) teaches. Root is in Jungs theory about Shadow-self = parts you have hidden about yourself. Every person has a shadow self, some more than others. Mine was not small. My ex must have a Shadow-giant. I'm still working with my shadow. My ex saw how I changed, said many times it is amazing how differently I react to all and how differently I see things... .  and he can't see how much he lies to himself. It is sad, it is ugly.

I had to  to your ex and his denial... .  doesn't it feel like something that can give you an aneurysm? I always felt like my brains are going to blow up. He actually blaimed me for not being able to be alone (I had been alone 2,5 years before meeting him, not dating), and I'm the one who can't be without a man for two weeks. Guess how long it took for him to line up his dating profiles after every break up? Exactly two weeks. This is from person who said he has never, ever, ever in his life tried to find a relationship... .  he does not chase after women. I believed him.

Now I can find the thruth in this all: no, he did not chase after women, he wanted women to chase him. Internet is a perfect place for that. Isn't it a godsend for every disordered personality? He did not want to be alone, and saw my ability to be alone (little did he understand that I had to learn to be alone, he can't see why would anyone torture him/herself like that?), he was envious of it, he saw it gave me freedom, I did not have to suck up people in the fear of being alone, and so he felt a shamed of himself... .  so he had to lie to himself, and to me (who did not need that lie), that he never pursues relationships. And he has to believe what he lies. For such an honest person he lies all the time. I say honest, because he really does not lie about anything else. He has been brutally honest about his life. But when it comes to his personality, his disorted view of things, relationships... .  he lies, and he believes every word of it. Of course he knew I did not believe him after some time, but it was OK for him if he managed to manipulate, blackmail or threaten me to ACT like I believed. Now when I think I have to shake my head for myself, how could I hate myself so much I took all that?

[benny2]

I think that was the one thing that bothered my ex the most. The fact that I knew everytime he was lieing or menipulating me. I actually caught him one morning pulling into his ex wifes driveway after he went through hell trying to convince he had to leave for work early. He over emphasized it. I knew something was wrong. He was pacing around the house that morning and very nervous. When I confronted him with it, it was one lie ontop of another. Then I told him, "did you forget you showed me how clearly you can see headlights through the woods in the dark?"  His ex wife lived 2 houses down the road. He then thought he could fool me by leaving his truck in the driveway while I was at work so he would have witnesses that could testify his truck being there while I was at work. Little did he know, I found the path he had made in the snow leading to her door. He could not menipulate me and that is why he knew he had to have me out.

[PrettyPlease]

Wonderful thread!

Pinkpeony, thanks for the great writing, and everyone else for contributions. Took me right back to those crazy-making conversations. I just now had the thought that I'd describe them as sort of externalized neurofibrillary tangles. I know I'm borrowing a term from another disease but it does seem to fit. I think you might know what I mean.

schwing, thanks for the good description of how object constancy fits into the whole picture. I like understanding this in order to move past the 'they're purposefully manipulating and deceiving us' interpretation. That can happen sometimes I think, but mostly it seems that they forget (or never learned how to remember) and then need to confabulate to fill in the gaps for themselves (and us).

And pinkpeony I felt a sense of kinship with your discovery of BPD and reading about it secretly, in order to begin to make sense and so free yourself from the magical reality you were living in. I think I did the same, but not in that way. I began to journal all the conversations, and did this for a couple of years. Then later I went away and read them to myself. My now exuBPDgf used to refer to this as 'shuffling your papers again,' but I think it was critical for me to be able to re-read in private, and make logical connections without being confronted or denied. Eventually it helped me leave.

Last thing: the deer are wonderful. I have them in my yard. A mother left one in sight of my kitchen window for days when it was new. She and her two, larger now, showed up again yesterday after the winter, eating my kale as usual.    I  let them. So much easier to get along with than humans. Hardly any trouble at all.   

PP