Need help

[Someday . . .]

This may be long so please bear with me.  My ddBPD24 started cutting at the age of 15 and stopped after a month.  She then became anorexic and stopped after a month.  She then started using drugs.  She quit school at the age of 16 as it was too stressful for her and she had depression.  We made her see a psychiatrist between the ages of 16 -18 and when she turned 18 she quit seeing the therapist and swore that she would never see another psychiatrist or psychologist as long as she lived.  The therapist, at the exit interview, said "We are not sure what __(name)__ is capable of doing, this is a matter of wait and see."  The therapist also diagnosed her as BPD.  So between the ages of 18 and 21 we sat back and watched.  She tried very, very hard to make a go of her life but was unable to do so.  She tried working, school (many classes), volunteering etc. . . she was unable to complete anything.  At the age of 21 she started using crystal meth (unbeknownst to me), at about the same time she decided to go to Spain.  Her thought was that if she went far enough away that she would HAVE to make it.  Within a couple of days she called me (too difficult for her), I flew over and I asked her if she was finally ready to get help.  She said 'yes'.  We flew back to the west coast and once we were back, she said "what if I don't want to go in for help".  I said the two words that I knew would work "road trip".  So we drove the 3,000 miles back to McLean 3 East  (6 week intensive DBT program).  She did great for six months (she saw a local DBT therapist 3 times a week).  She then felt that she was ready to go out in the real world, within 6 weeks she had a serious suicide attempt.  She came back home, her therapist saw how completely disregulated she was and my daughter agreed to commit herself to the psychiatric hospital.  After the hospital she was transferred to a rtc and after a couple of months she signed herself out and relapsed on crystal meth (due to her wanting to revisit with her therapist when she was violated at the age of 16 - she couldn't handle revisiting the subject).  She then relapsed again 3 weeks later.  My husband (her dad) took the starter out of her car and told her that she could only get her car back if she went in to another facility (a 4 week DBT program - inpatient).  She refused to go in for chemical dependency.  While she was in the facility she got migraines.  The facility gave her opiates for the pain and when she was discharged she got a full blown opiate addiction.  About 5 months later she was very suicidal and I told her that she had a choice of going in to a drug rehab or psychiatric ward.  She chose the drug rehab.  After the drug rehab she went to a tlc.  After a month she lied to us to come back home.  She was home for a year and it was sheer hell.  I had given up any hope of her going in for treatment.  All by herself she decided to go in for treatment (she felt because her home life was so horrible - when in reality we had to finally put some boundaries into place).  She has been at a therpuetic farm for the past 7 months.  It is NOT the place for her.  She is getting worse and even the farm staff feels that it is not the place for her. 

Here's where it gets sticky.  She  is now engaged to a boy in the program. All my daughter wants to do is to be a normal couple and live with the boyfriend.  Not only do they really not have money to live on their own (my dd does get about $800.00 month from SSI), his mom and I feel that they need to each address their own issues and come together when they are in a healthier place.  Even the farm feels as though there relationship is very unhealthy, plus my daughter still has drug urges.  Since my daughter is not doing well at all there, and since we are spending money that is not helping, our plans are to have her discharged once we get something lined up.  So I spoke with my daughter today and she was at least honest and said that since she is not invested in regulating her emotions (she knows DBT soo well, plus she teaches a DBT class at the farm) and since she really has no interest in her sobriety we might as well let her do what she wants.  She has been in 8 different facilities.  The fact of the matter is is that she has been out on her own 5 different times and within 6 weeks to two months she either has a serious suicide attempt or a breakdown.  So, dear friends, I ask you, what would you do?  Let her go out on her own and then watch her crash and burn again (and maybe not be so luck next time?).  We did try to find the middle path which was find a DBT therapist and for her to go into a sober living facility, but as I said, she is not planning on being invested in it.  What would you do?       

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Reality]

Someday,

What a time you have had!  A difficult situation.  I look forward to other responses.  I am stumped.

Reality

[lbjnltx]

Greetings to you Someday... .  

Your family has been through so much for so long.  Your d is an adult, she has been in several treatment facilities and intense programs.  Until she is ready to commit to her own recovery it really doesn't seem to matter what treatment options you facilitate for her.  I know it is hard to accept this, heartbreaking.  There is the hope that she has picked up and will use some of the skills she has learned thus far.

She can't be forced to go anywhere so if she refuses anything then that is the answer.  

I hope that you will focus on self care and continuing education for yourself.  Focus on how to come to terms with her choices.  There are many skills we use here to help us cope and heal the wounds we carry around with us... .  

There may come a time when she decides that she is ready to commit to her own recovery and own her past, present and future.  The best you can do is be ready to support her through that process. 

lbjnltx

[vivekananda]

Hi Someday... .  

You have experienced an enormous amount of pain living with your dd's (dear daughter's) chaos and crisis. I am sorry it has been so hard. If my words sound blunt to you, please forgive me, I don't mean to make it worse. I would like to offer some words of logic, in a straightforward way.

Your dd is an adult. She is responsible for her decisions. As a parent your responsibility is to support her, not to enable her. You have found her a DBT therapist and sober living facility but there is no point in this unless she is willing to commit to change. I believe you need to enforce a boundary based on respect (this is how I would see it, it may be different for you). It would go like this: "Here is this opportunity we are giving to you. If you are willing to take it and commit to it, we are here to support you in that. If you are not willing to commit, then there is no point in you doing it, we still want to be supportive of you. If you change your mind and want therapeutic help in the future, we can negotiate with you how we will support you."

Now, how you support should also be spelt out perhaps.

With my dd32, dh and I will no longer give her money. We have said that if she provides receipts we will pay for therapy (and perhaps other stuff). So far she has not really asked since this boundary was set in place, although she has asked for gifts and the cheap ones we will consider.  Perhaps it is time to say. 'We will no longer give you money. We believe that this is not helpful to you. We will consider helping financially with therapy costs, but that will have to be negotiated. You are an adult and are responsible for yourself." There have been parents here who have exhausted themselves financially on their d's, selling their house etc. You need to be careful, because it is so easy to assuage our feelings of guilt by giving them money or its equivalent, when we are not really doing anything to help them, but may be causing harm. Here is a link to values based boundary setting:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

I believe her understanding of DBT is superficial, so sad. If she understood, she would be practising what has learnt. I think that you need to take on the ideas of DBT for yourselves. Begin with understanding validation and why it works. Consider what mindfulness means and begin to practice it. What has been my salvation has been learning about these things and this has helped me begin to repair my relationship with my daughter. This I believe, is the only thing you can work on, your relationship with her. You cannot change her, only she can change herself.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

Vivek    

[cfh]

Someday

I feel your desperation because what you wrote about your dd is almost an exact replica of my ds29 life. He too has been in special schools, therapeutic boarding schools, RTC's, TC's, Ranches, rehabs from a very young age all with no success.

Now he is in jail awaiting sentencing and if he gets lucky the court will mandate long term residential treatment (18 months) in lieu of prison time.

But it is up to him to take advantage of this opportunity.  If he can't or won't then he goes back to prison.

No parent wants that for their child but it is out of our hands. He has to want to move towards wellness and address his problem with drugs and do the very hard work that is required of him.  We can't do it for him.

I would recommend taking the Family to Family course given by NAMI and the Family Connections Course which we are taking right now.  Both are terrific.  We have a much stronger bond with our son now.

We will not give our son anymore money (nor can we afford it).  If the court mandates treatment he will pay for it out of his SSD. 

Just a few months ago I would have felt as though I was abandoning my ds but with the help of NAMI, this board, reading lots of books and talking to T's I understand that until my ds wants to help himself he will remain stuck.

I hope he can do it and I honestly don't know if he can or will.  He has a very serious drug abuse problem which complicates getting well.

At the end of the day we finally had to ask ourselves "are we helping him?".  The answer was no but we can help ourselves.

[Someday . . .]

Thank you all for your responses. 

I keep going back to the "if she were just in the right place . .the last one was so invalidating"  etc. . .   "If only . . . ."  It is hard to give up on the hope and face reality.  I had no idea how much love a parent can feel for their child.  *sigh* :'(

I have taken the taken the Family to Family class and currently going to be teaching the Family Connections class so I do have a lot of skills to draw on (not to mention going through 8 months of the DBT skills classes and seeing a DBT therapist).  Plus, I am currently taking Non Violent Communication classes (which is really helping me right now).  You would think that if you put all those classes together that I would come up with miracle answers.     As for myself, I am doing pretty well coping considering all things  (my husband just said that he wanted a divorce last Friday!).  On the other hand, my husband is not doing well at all (and has refused any 'positive' way to help himself - that's his choice).

Again, thank you all so very, very, much for your responses.  I truly appreciate them. 

Someday . . .

[jellibeans]

My heart breaks for... .  you have had some really good advise here... .  it will be hard for sure but it is time to let her stand on her own two feet. My thoughts are with you... .  stay strong and positive... .  she might end up surprising us all and finding a better way to cope... .  

[lbjnltx]

Dear Someday... .  

All the education you have gotten is amazing.  Good for you in seeking out help and getting it!

It is difficult to take the skills and apply them personally while being emotionally attached to the fear for our children.  All the skills we learn still cannot change anyone else... .  only self.  When we put those skills into actions and change how we view our situations and our realtionships the using of skills can create opportunities and the atmosphere for positive change. The skills and education only benefit us if we put them into practice.  There is a lot going on in your life and it is understandable that finding a starting point can be difficult.

I'm so very sorry to hear that your husband is so stressed and wanting to escape the marriage.  All that your family has been through can either pull your closer together or further apart.  What can you do?

The basic skills that we learn in order to have a better relationship with our BPD children can also be used in all of our other relationships... .  Have you thought about how to use your knowledge to help your husband deal with his feelings?  His disappointments?  

I see a parallel between your daughter's education and how she is using it and your education and how you are using it.  It is important for us to model the behaviors, attitude and actions that we are asking of our children.

We are here to help you and support you if you will allow us to.    


lbj

[peaceplease]

Someday,

I see that you have two replies while I was typing.  And, I say ditto to their responses ... .  

I am sorry that you are experiencing all of this with your dd.  And, your dh wanting a divorce?  This can really cause some strain on a marriage.  

Basically, I agree with everyone else in that your dd is an adult now.  I know that it is not easy.  My uBPDd is 28 and makes some bad choices.  She is the one that must suffer the consequences. I can only take care of myself.    

I am sorry that your dd is not practicing the DBT skills.  Perhaps, someday when she is really down and out, she may try to practice them.  The good thing is that she has the knowledge.  

Please take care of yourself.    

peaceplease

[vivekananda]

I am impressed with your learning Someday... .  a bit envious too 

It seems to me you are in the midst of a maelstrom, trying to calm the storm, when perhaps you would be better to try to keep your feet and stay balanced and strong so your loved ones can look to you as an example of how to help themselves. And in your loving kindness you can show them how you meet your unment emotional needs (NVC language eh?), so they can see how it is done for themselves. Take care of yourself, ok?

I concur totally with what lbj pointed out, I think we all do.

In the meantime we are here for you, always.

Cheers,

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

When I live in fear of losing my D, I am imobolized reagardless of my learning.

The knowledge can get stuck in my mind. How to activate it it into my heart and put it to use in wisemind. There are other 'languages' to say this in, from all the sources we are all reading, disucssing, teaching, practicing. I can get lost in the words... .  

This is what comes to mind for me with the parallels between your DD24 and my DD26, though yours has more knowledge than mine they resist changing themselves. I am so sad that your D moves to self-inflicted damage when she is dysregulated. Mine takes it out aggressively on all around her. Her vengefulness gives her relief like cutting or suicide tempting for others. The damage to relationships is the same.

And so painful for those sitting there loving.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Someday . . .]

Dear all,

Once again,  I say thank you for responding.

My bottom line with my daughter is safety.   That's why I would love to find a middle ground which we could both live with. 

Even with everything I know, when the situation is soo dire some very raw emotions come up.  For the most part I'm really able to draw on everything I've learned. 

Many things which all of you have said, have certainly rung true within my heart/soul.  Thank you!

I'll keep you posted have things unfold.  (As my sister says "Let it unfold, don't let it unravel"

Someday . . .