Urge to date to soon...

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey all,

I am 23 days NC after the 4th or 6th (honestly cant remember) recycle with ex girlfriend wBPD over 4 years.

In between breakups, I would try and cope with the loss and greive... .  i ended up never really dating anybody else over these years and she would come back just as i was getting over her... .  

a week ago I had a one night stand. i never had a one night stand before. I wasn't really attracted to this woman, but i felt like I had to sleep with somebody else to break the spell of the "black magic woman" that my ex wBPD turned out to be. The "roll in the hay with the stranger-girl" was on the fringe of traumatic... .  since I had flashbacks of ex during sex, etc... .  etc... .  had to leave a few times, and apologized... .  ehhh awkward.

All in all, I am glad I did it... .  even though extremely out of character and felt awkward... .  i did enjoy parts of it, and it reminded me what normal sex was like. I feel like the fact that i had sexual relations with another woman helped to cut the enmeshment cord. Both of us (me and the stranger-girl) agreed it was just sex... .  normally I wouldnt objectify myself or another in such a way... .  i guess it is how my ex wBPD wouldve coped with the breakup(im sure she slept with someone elsse)... .  makes sense since i have the fleas, that I would sink to her level... .  not beating myself up though... .  I got used to sex being a weapon of my ex wBPD to control me, tease me, humiliate me... .  guilt me for wanting it... .  guilting me for not getting off... .  etc. In some ways... .  this sex was my salvation.

Porno BPD sex isnt satisfying in the long term... .  I agree when my BPD ex had her sex drive in full gear it was "the best sex ever" blah blah... .  this is a distant memory for me. Sex with my ex girlfriend wBPD began to make me more nervous than anything... .  as much as I felt deprived of it. It just wasn't good at all anymore. Eventhough I felt like i was begging for it... .  she turned sex in to a selfish thing for me. Whether it is me being selfish or her? In any case, I have issues about sex now. Great. I feel like a selfish pig for wanting sex after being screamed at about it for years and Im only 29... .  her dad just died and made me feel bad for wanting sex because her "dad was watching". I am pretty sure he raped/molested her... .  sick.

I think the reason sex seemed to be so good... .  is kind of like when you are in the desert and starving for water... .  if you get some water it seems so much better... .  i guess good sex with the ex was so few and far between that the quality only "seemed to be a lot better" than other women, because the only time i would feel close to my ex, i would get destroyed shortly afterward... .  the more intimate the sex, the more rage and splitting i would receive in the following days weeks. How sad... .  maybe if she wasnt out having emotional affairs or who knows what (this time i dont want to know, or have it rubbed in my face)... .  she would want to be more intimate... .  but probably not because she prefers to feel like crap all the time than to take risks with her heart... .  sad.

Anyways, sex with the random was a low-point for me (that i dont regret)... .  a girl contacted me from an online dating site that seems interesting... .  i always end up being disappointed in how a woman looks as opposed to her dating site pictures... .  I feel like I could make an ass out of myself... .  but in previous instances after breakups, i would wallow and be anti-social, fearful of other women... .  and then when she showed up at my house after months it would feel like it was meant to be... .  

I know that I should probably hold of on dating due to the fragility of my ego... and how unbalanced and uppity I am these days.but seeming as Ive broken up with my ex wBPD like 6 times... .  maybe i should try something different this time? I feel like if I can surround my self with some new lady friends I will not be vulnerable when my ex wBPD inevitably comes around again... .  she can not use sex or my misguided loyalty over my head, because I will have already moved along and broken the trauma bonding through being intimate with other people?

I know I need to restore my core self with a T (and am doing so). I know Im not ready for dating... .  but I have no more good connections w friends and family, in part due to my addiction to the toxic relationship with my exwBPD. I work from home and it's introverted and I feel like Im in a perfect storm to never get out of this enmeshment and breakup/makeup pattern with my exwBPD... .  

23 days NC, and not searching to fill the void of my ex... .  but searching to fill the void of my life that got turned upside down in this tumultuous relationship... .  

Working out, eating well, trying to focus on work and not ruminate... .  but very lonely

I think with my self-esteem being so low, I could very well make a fool of myself on a date... .  but if things went well, it could provide some validation to continue detaching from the wounds... .  (ouch).

I just want to feel like myself again... .  I miss (non) women... .  it seems like dating is easier than trying to make new friends... .  .

What do you guys think? Should I just go eat some walnuts instead?

Stoic

[stoic83]

Hey all,

I am 23 days NC after the 4th or 6th (honestly cant remember) recycle with ex girlfriend wBPD over 4 years.

In between breakups, I would try and cope with the loss and greive... .  i ended up never really dating anybody else over these years and she would come back just as i was getting over her... .  

a week ago I had a one night stand. i never had a one night stand before. I wasn't really attracted to this woman, but i felt like I had to sleep with somebody else to break the spell of the "black magic woman" that my ex wBPD turned out to be. The "roll in the hay with the stranger-girl" was on the fringe of traumatic... .  since I had flashbacks of ex during sex, etc... .  etc... .  had to leave a few times, and apologized... .  ehhh awkward.

All in all, I am glad I did it... .  even though extremely out of character and felt awkward... .  i did enjoy parts of it, and it reminded me what normal sex was like. I feel like the fact that i had sexual relations with another woman helped to cut the enmeshment cord. Both of us (me and the stranger-girl) agreed it was just sex... .  normally I wouldnt objectify myself or another in such a way... .  i guess it is how my ex wBPD wouldve coped with the breakup(im sure she slept with someone elsse)... .  makes sense since i have the fleas, that I would sink to her level... .  not beating myself up though... .  I got used to sex being a weapon of my ex wBPD to control me, tease me, humiliate me... .  guilt me for wanting it... .  guilting me for not getting off... .  etc. In some ways... .  this sex was my salvation.

Porno BPD sex isnt satisfying in the long term... .  I agree when my BPD ex had her sex drive in full gear it was "the best sex ever" blah blah... .  this is a distant memory for me. Sex with my ex girlfriend wBPD began to make me more nervous than anything... .  as much as I felt deprived of it. It just wasn't good at all anymore. Eventhough I felt like i was begging for it... .  she turned sex in to a selfish thing for me. Whether it is me being selfish or her? In any case, I have issues about sex now. Great. I feel like a selfish pig for wanting sex after being screamed at about it for years and Im only 29... .  her dad just died and made me feel bad for wanting sex because her "dad was watching". I am pretty sure he raped/molested her... .  sick.

I think the reason sex seemed to be so good... .  is kind of like when you are in the desert and starving for water... .  if you get some water it seems so much better... .  i guess good sex with the ex was so few and far between that the quality only "seemed to be a lot better" than other women, because the only time i would feel close to my ex, i would get destroyed shortly afterward... .  the more intimate the sex, the more rage and splitting i would receive in the following days weeks. How sad... .  maybe if she wasnt out having emotional affairs or who knows what (this time i dont want to know, or have it rubbed in my face)... .  she would want to be more intimate... .  but probably not because she prefers to feel like crap all the time than to take risks with her heart... .  sad.

Anyways, sex with the random was a low-point for me (that i dont regret)... .  a girl contacted me from an online dating site that seems interesting... .  i always end up being disappointed in how a woman looks as opposed to her dating site pictures... .  I feel like I could make an ass out of myself... .  but in previous instances after breakups, i would wallow and be anti-social, fearful of other women... .  and then when she showed up at my house after months it would feel like it was meant to be... .  

I know that I should probably hold of on dating due to the fragility of my ego... and how unbalanced and uppity I am these days.but seeming as Ive broken up with my ex wBPD like 6 times... .  maybe i should try something different this time? I feel like if I can surround my self with some new lady friends I will not be vulnerable when my ex wBPD inevitably comes around again... .  she can not use sex or my misguided loyalty over my head, because I will have already moved along and broken the trauma bonding through being intimate with other people?

I know I need to restore my core self with a T (and am doing so). I know Im not ready for dating... .  but I have no more good connections w friends and family, in part due to my addiction to the toxic relationship with my exwBPD. I work from home and it's introverted and I feel like Im in a perfect storm to never get out of this enmeshment and breakup/makeup pattern with my exwBPD... .  

23 days NC, and not searching to fill the void of my ex... .  but searching to fill the void of my life that got turned upside down in this tumultuous relationship... .  

Working out, eating well, trying to focus on work and not ruminate... .  but very lonely

I think with my self-esteem being so low, I could very well make a fool of myself on a date... .  but if things went well, it could provide some validation to continue detaching from the wounds... .  (ouch).

I just want to feel like myself again... .  I miss (non) women... .  it seems like dating is easier than trying to make new friends... .  .

What do you guys think? Should I just go eat some walnuts instead?

Stoic

[Clearmind]

You are very honest stoic and I suspect you may have answered your own dilemma!

Sex can and does in some instances mask some deeper pain. Yes it gives you a high however the high does not last long. While it lasts you may not think of your immediate pain/hurt. The next day... .  it's same same because it has not altered your thinking/ruminating.

I don't see a huge issue in dating - I am wary of how sex can make things more complicated. It also does not teach us to date and inquire - find out if a person is compatible of not. Have you had any thought or chats with your therapist about compatibility and what it means?

Of course it's your choice - what feels right to you?

[stoic83]

I don't see a huge issue in dating - I am wary of how sex can make things more complicated. It also does not teach us to date and inquire - find out if a person is compatible of not. Have you had any thought or chats with your therapist about compatibility and what it means?

Of course it's your choice - what feels right to you?

Thanks for the empathetic feedback, clearmind. The thing that hurts in the moment of this statement, is that my exwBPD kept talking about how she was trying to find someone healthy. And held that over my head, to make me feel like I was unhealthy. She obviously had a lot of women to talk to in AA about relationships, and trying to look at the relationship with her like a "normal relationship" was impossible. Did she not understand how unbalanced a relationship with her was and that she shouldn't necessarily be reaching for perfection with her unique relationship needs? She was always giving cards about "accepting imperfections... .  etc". Rather than ever talk directly about her disorder or talk about her strategy for improving... .  

Didn't she realize that I was perhaps the healthiest person that she could hope to be with? Is that controlling and mean and narcissistic of me to say that. I think so... .  I didn't ever tell that to her.

In the end I knew that they were all telling her that due to her condition she would naturally be attracted to unhealthy men... .  and she was constantly analyzing me and manipulating me to prove that I was in fact unhealthy which would provide her with the victim identity she needed to cut things off and receive validation from her sexualized friendships with women... .  it really hurts to be accused of being needy and narcissistic when I have tried so hard to accomodate her special needs in a relationship... .  [which i have admitted is codependent].

How can anybody be in a relationship with a pwBPD that isn't codependent? What do they get out of the relationship? I just don't understand... .  it seems like you would have to be a "personal jesus" of sorts.

Its really a twisted thing to be constantly berrated for trying to help someone with special needs. I feel like a worse man for it. I acted totally out of line at times(sunk down to her level)... .  I told her I wasn't strong enough... .  she told me I was the only man who could tolerate her.

The moments of clarity were so rare... .  and when they happened it re-hooked me... .  just the right amount of reality and peace amid the chaos... .  the "eye of the hurricane", .

I hope the universe tosses some good karma my way, because I am really low these days... .  

Trying to stay positive about this business i have been working on for three years and can't even enjoy any successes for fear of being a narcissist... .  oh man, this is a crazy introspective journey... .  

Best,

Stoic

[Clearmind]

Stoic - I'm sorry you are hurting and that you are placing a great deal of blame and guilt on yourself.

Yes we all likely have some codependent traits. For those with codependent traits - dating and sex can be validating in the short term however it can be hurtful in the long run - hurtful in the sense we are being impulsive and not thinking. Dating is great - use it to find out if you honestly care about someone.

Allowing sex to avoid is maybe not the best avenue.

Codependency is a label and doesn't explain the reasons for it. Have you delved into why this might be the case for you.

Seek your own form of validation. In time you won't believe a thing your ex said about you - because - you would have worked on your own self worth and simply won't care.

'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent' Eleanor Roosevelt. Maybe do some work with your therapist as to why you appear to be.

Be kind to you and don't punish yourself further

[stoic83]

In regards to compatability, shes from northern california... .  im from colorado... .  she got a master's degree when she was 22... .  I majored math and philosophy... .  she is a music teacher and musician... .  I also make music and am creative and have worked with artists. The problems is I'm trying to balance out my left brain with right brain stuff... .  because I feel it is lacking in my life. I miss my old creative, funny self... .  and maybe this girl could be a cool person so i can receive some positive social mirroring and also share my rich inner world with somebody else (my friends are not as sensitive or creative as I am... .  )?

My ex wBPD watched housewives shows and gossiped with caddy girlfriends and was obssessed with watching intervention and other dark shows.

I just think with as vulnerable as I am... .  i will end up idealizing her if she seems nice and seem over-interested to quickly or I will act foolishly since i don't get out enough these days... .  what do you think? I think maybe the fact that Im so nervous about it is a red flag... .  but like i said, i dont want to be a sitting duck if the ex wBPD comes back around... .  

JK

[charred]

Stoic-

Sounds like you are bummed... been there. Sex was very good with my exBPDgf... however it came to be few and far between and disasterous... we would be broke up and she would show up on holidays, push in to my house and do something like ask to use bathroom (I live 3 hrs drive from her) ... then dart in to bedroom and be disrobed ready to go... and I had no will power. Then I would meet my ex and daughter and feel like crap for having seen her... and she would make sure they knew about within a day or two.

I eventually got very tired of her going out of her way to cause hurt to my exwife and daughter... and dumped her. Week or so later she is posting pics of her with her new BF... short distance from my house... kissing on him etc... saying how awesome he is... few months pass, she is single and bugging me again... I talk to her (breaking NC)... and she has an STD and wants sympathy! No one but BPD would have that kind of nerve.

So I was married or dating the pwBPD for all of the last 25+ yrs... and am horrible at dating... terribly out of practice. I am normally easily swayed by my exBPDgf... to have sex... but knowing that she is fighting off an STD may help me steer clear of her. Have been very hesitant to sleep with my exwife unless I intend on reconciling with her, as it so painful going through the breakup-divorce. Which leaves me down and wanting a physical relationship. Have looked at things like week long trips to Dominican Republic with the girls provided (its legal)... and not that much. But I have never done that and I am not sure whether sleeping with a bunch of younger gals I don't know would cheer me up... or be even more devastating than being with my pwBPD... .  so for now I think about it and that is it.

Here is the weird thought about going that route that is on my mind though... .  frequently people that choose to work in that line of work have issues or disorders... it would go from fun to a horror story, if you show up and a half dozen smiling, sexy, BPD girls were there ready to go... OMG, it would be like Fatal Attraction on steroids.

Anyway, you are not the only one with an urge to date... probably too soon.

[stoic83]

Seek your own form of validation. In time you won't believe a thing your ex said about you - because - you would have worked on your own self worth and simply won't care.

'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent' Eleanor Roosevelt. Maybe do some work with your therapist as to why you appear to be.

Be kind to you and don't punish yourself further

Hey clearmind, thank you again for your words of wisdom. I have been listening to eckhart tolle, and trying to practice some buddhist principles in my life... .  dbt principles. It is very difficult to be conscious and present right now, but it has helped some.

It is true that for much of my life I have chosen to allow the words of other people to define how I feel about myself. I have misguided loyalty in friendships and relationships, and I feel there have been a lot of distortion campaigns about me in my family... .  I think my Mom, Dad, and sister are all suffering from severe dysfunction... .  I don't speak to any of them any more.

It is hard to exit a relationship as tumultuous and soul-crunching as this one and have no relationship with family... .  

I am completely aware that I accept poor treatment from others, because I was made to feel inferior and deserving of poor treatment when I had no control over it... .  so this is why I remain in harmful relationships.

I tried to talk to my parents after this... .  but was emotionally blackmailed and it triggered me to realize that talking to them was a bad idea right now... .  trying to self-soothe... .  but it's hard to find myself without any social mirroring. This creative and opportunistic endeavor of mine has left me alone most of the time... .  or with my business partner but who is friendly, but very left-brained... .  and I feel like it rubs off on me and it is irritating. He says he is the opposite of a highly sensitive person... .  worries me a little bit. He keeps a lot bottled up inside and has some pretty gnarly narc/codependent tendencies and I feel like he revels when I am in a weakened state, it makes him feel powerful I believe... .  i can see the codependency in him and it really bugs me, because I feel like I need to be alone so I am not influenced by anyone right now if that makes sense?

I think this is exactly what my exwBPD felt about me... .  that I reveled helping her in a weakened state. It was much easier for me to be sweet with her when she was suffering, rather than was she was angry and raging at me... .  but i digress. I think some people just like being the "hero", but its toxic when its enabling the other person to not take responsibility for their behavior... .  and this is why I agree with the aspect that I was unhealthy for her. She acted like a bigger jerk with me than anybody... .  i act like this with my biz partner (to a much lesser extent, but still to the point where I apologize for losing my temper).

I have  very few dear friends and they are scattered about the globe, and perhaps we have very little in common right now... .  I think that I seem quite "off" to everybody, and it's sad that this is what has become of me... .  because everybody had such high hopes for me, and I am a walking contradiction. I am upset at myself for projecting the anger and abuse I took in from her on to my friends and possibly family... .  but it feels like im just angry and depressed and not very good company right now

What do you think I should do? Just hang out and do introverted things until Im feeling better? Am i going to feel better if i don't push my self off the diving board... .  and stumble a few times?

Thanks so much for your help:)

Stoic

[charred]

Stoic-

I really am in same spot for most part... haven't talked to dad in over 13 yrs, didn't spend more than a few hours around my mom since I was a teenager... and I am 50. I was stoic about everything till the blowup between my exwife and pwBPD... and the stress level was doing me in, was getting welts and tightness in my chest from it. Went to a T and learned to do mindfulness meditation to relieve stress. That alone was worth the cost of a T for a long time... .  so kept going and have found that while my pwBPD is disordered... I am not issue free, I have trouble getting close to people in relationships, I have lots of business acquaintances all over the country, but no longer have friends to hang out with. I am not shy exactly, more like keep people at a distance... and digging in to it with my T revealed a lot, attachment issues going way back to being a little kid... all sorts of stuff. Being stoic means not dealing with it... just bearing it. And even though I am 50 I finally am dealing with it.

The essense of what I found... my folks did me no favors... moved every couple years, were not warm/loving... .  and I push people away and keep some detachment, to keep from getting hurt. So what I most want... genuine loving relationships... .  is what I prevent from happening. I have started attaching to my feelings, instead of avoiding them, and already feel closer to people. Watched a St Judes Childrens hospital advertisement with kids with cancer and about broke down watching it... .  then felt a bit silly... but I am changing for the better.

My long winded point... .  you make excellent arguments for being in therapy... if your not on terms with anyone in your family, your alone, you feel down, your exgf is a disordered woman... you need to get some help... I resisted for a long time, and am kicking myself for not working on myself far sooner. Just the stress relief was worth it. 

[stoic83]

Stoic-

he essense of what I found... my folks did me no favors... moved every couple years, were not warm/loving... .  and I push people away and keep some detachment, to keep from getting hurt. So what I most want... genuine loving relationships... .  is what I prevent from happening. I have started attaching to my feelings, instead of avoiding them, and already feel closer to people. Watched a St Judes Childrens hospital advertisement with kids with cancer and about broke down watching it... .  then felt a bit silly... but I am changing for the better.

My long winded point... .  you make excellent arguments for being in therapy... if your not on terms with anyone in your family, your alone, you feel down, your exgf is a disordered woman... you need to get some help... I resisted for a long time, and am kicking myself for not working on myself far sooner. Just the stress relief was worth it. 

Hey Thanks charred, I appreciate your honesty... .  and relating to me during this tough time. It's amazing how much of a time warp it has been with my BPD exgf... .  it really could've been 4 years or 25 and i feel lucky i have gotten out when I did. She always seemed to hint that I had issues with intimacy too, but I didn't see the problem.

I know from a left-brained perspective how strange this relationship has been... .  but yes, there are unseen forces at play. She used to get angry at me for saying she has trouble with initimacy (crazy) when I do too... .  but I guess she is right. I think my trouble with intimacy has gotten a lot worse because with my ex... .  if we got close i would know that rage was coming just around the corner.

I guess I'm embarrassed. i have had great friends before (still do) and have made friends easily... .  now I just don't have the desire to meet new people... .  well i do, but i guess i wish we already knew eachother... .  if that makes sense. I just wish I had more meaningful friendships and this relationship w BPD was symbolically important to me... .  it just makes me sad because she was a fighter... .  just didn't find the right path (aa instead of cbt/dbt... .  etc.). I feel bad but if it's me urging therapy and aa(cult that discourages mentally ill from receiving help) urging jesus... .  I lose.

In any case, her condition seems to have gotten worse. She is now 26 and was 23 when I met her. It's sad to see somebody's mental health deteriorate like that. I imagine a lot of my friends feel that way about me... .  since I have been so involved in this relationship with the expbd i lost my identity and what little bit of a social life i had in this place (superficial orange county toxic dump).

I am now 29... .  I graduated college when i was 23/24. So 4 out of 6 years of my fully adult life with this woman... .  you can imagine me having issues. 1 year couch hopping, 2 years stable job, 3 years promising software startup... .  but roller coaster ride (on top of BPD roller coaster ride).

Looking forward to getting some perspective in therapy and to get away from the large number of superficially attractive yet disturbed people around here. I'm starting to really believe that money and physical appearance are the two biggest motivators for people with mental illnesses, and Im smack dab in the middle of it... .  

I think there is BPD in my immediate family... .  and that's why i stay away from them. I am looking forward to volunteering or doing something to meet new people that enjoy helping others and being helped as well. I went to al-anon and that was okay... .  but i dont want to meet new friends on the basis of having been in a relationship that i have ended.

Its hard to get any sense of community in this semi-urban toxic superficial sprawl... .  but i need to seek it out and stay away from bars and parties. I always enjoyed smoking weed and drinking with friends... .  but it seems the older that I get the less I enjoy hanging out and have stupid small talk... .  

I desire deep relationships... .  but have none at my disposal. So strange to be in this predicament. It seems I have always had a good friend or two with some stability... .  all my friends have their own problems... .  hence the Therapist.

In any case... .  what can I do break out of my funk charred?

How can I create more meaningful relationships in such a short amount of time?

I dont really have a lot of friends to reconnect with... .  a couple of my friends have really changed over the past few years... .  or maybe i have. One is a heavy drinker... .  but has changed from nicest guy in the world... .  to screaming drunk maniac. And the other guy just seems bored and in his professional routine... .  completely emotionally detached.

These are two of my best friends of all time... .  but like I said, these relationships are becoming a lot less fulfilling as I get older... .  

Is dating the best way to make new friends, meet people to care about? Or should I go join some goofy club? ()

Stoic

[charred]

Stoic-

Break out of funk

Meet new friends

Deep relationships

You are asking someone in a very similar position how to get out of that position... hmm.

As to breaking out of the funk; my funk pretty well has lifted, and it was from losing stress and living more in the moment instead of ruminating on ... .  well about everything... used to be sleepless from thinking, thinking, thinking... .  but fact is I was detached from about everything I was thinking about. So what finally stopped it... mindfulness meditation... which is really a common sense fix to ruminating. You pay attention to breathing and other things that are ONLY here and now and block out other stuff like "what should I do about my GF... " and get to where you can be relaxed and attached to your feelings, not hiding/avoiding them. Then you keep working on that and learn what egoic thoughts are ... stuff that is not genuine, but about prestige, envy, stuff... not people... its hard to explain briefly, but for me... I was hardcore in search of happiness through being a material success... making money, having degrees behind my name, being important in my field... and none of it made me happy... it added to the stress. So the mindfulness helped to get back to feeling and dealing with genuine emotions. I don't know that much about it... but the book that got me de-stressed and started was cheap and very good (its an Oprah Winfrey book club recommended one... ) was Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth"... which says its about finding your Life's Purpose...   kind of doubt that, though maybe long term it could work out that way. It was $14... do exercises at least 2 weeks each day and I suspect you will feel 100% better, as it cuts the ruminating way down... or did for me.

As to meeting new friends;... easiest place to do so for me was always school... you were trapped for long enough periods of time to make friends, had common goals, objectives and assignments, it was a natural setting... not a bar (where everyone puts on a facade)... and it could lead to better jobs, more money... which is what had me going. So I ended up with some 207 hrs of college credit, 3 majors a masters and so forth... but I did meet people every time. There are night classes at some high schools, things like communiversity where you go learn something short term like dancing... .  in fact if you want to meet women... omg, two-stepping and country dancing... they go nuts on it... I hate country music... but that would be worth doing. (Years ago I rode horses and showed them... not in to horses... nor are most guys... however... girls are big time in to it... kept doing it till I could drive a car... then stupidly quit.) There is a website called meetup.com where you can find all kinds of local groups/activities to do something fun. Approach it as doing what YOU want to do, not meeting people... the meeting will happen. When you do what you like doing, you are having fun, being confident and usually being yourself... which is a good start to making genuine friends.

Deep relationships... I am going to have to speculate a bit... I have had many, but not at the moment, but I think I know why... I am not trusting of other people enough to let them close to me. To be trusting... you need to be trustworthy, and most people think they are, then when you are honest you find you have done some less than wonderful things as part of your relationship history... you may have felt it was justified, hell it may have been justified... but your mind factors in all that stuff and adjusts for you... before you know it you get leery of people, because you think of what can go wrong, what could they be out to get from you, how could they hurt you... and its kicked off by an inner conviction that you don't want to admit that you may not be very trustworthy... its much easier to project and assume they (everyone) else isnt'. So where does my theory come from ... .  book I read called ":)aring to Trust- Opening Ourselves to Real Love and Intimacy"... very good book. If you get in to the mindfulness (which takes very little time and seems to reap pretty big rewards)... there is a book that helped called "Rewire your Brain for Love-Creating Vibrant Relationships Using the Science of Mindfulness". Which was pretty much a book of mindfulness exercises and other hints to help get genuine in relationships.

So for probably $50 on amazon... and 6 weeks or so of DAILY HABIT BUILDING. you can get headed in right direction anyway. My T pointed me toward the Eckart Tolle book (he has others, I read them, and if you read that one... you won't gain much from the others honestly)... and the rest I found on amazon by reading all the reviews for books that sounded on target, for mindfulness and relations and making friends.

I feel 100% better than I did, I am feeling emotions and not running from them, when I do things like take my daughter skating... instead of ignoring everyone and playing with my netbook, I talk to other people, and the genuine interest in them... they respond. I haven't taken it further and asked people to do something with me (apart from hanging out there) yet... but it is clear that a lot of people are in same boat we are, they want to meet people and have friends an are letting themselves get in the way of it. I am continuing to see a T, because I still feel I am getting value from it, mostly its been as a sounding board for advice with dealing with my exwife, mom and exBPDgf... but we are going to work on some of my fears that keep me from opening up (he thinks I have some trauma issues... lot has happened over the years... so worth a shot.) Opening up to my T was the first real honest/genuine relating I have done in a while... only time I cried that didn't involve a breakup/death of someone. It helped having someone listen that wasn't family, wasn't real judgemental and had good advice. If it quits helping I may go to someone else... .  but I didn't find out I was horribly disordered... just had a few things to work on.

[Clearmind]

Not sure if you have heard about the 'tyranny of shoulds'? If not google it. Understanding this will help you furn your thoughts around and help you self soothe.

If I wasn't messaging from my iPhone I would find the link for you - in the meantime google '10 ways to untwist your thinking'.

When we come from a chaotic home environment we are accustomed to drama and heightened emotions. This is possibly why you stayed in your relationship - because it felt familiar. I know it's why I did.

When i separated from my ex i felt bored, unproductive, useless, unmotivated, hard on myself. The compulsion is to quickly date, drink, and re-create a little chaos to normalise it.

I lived in the tyranny of shoulds: I should be productive, I should be going out more and not hibernating, I should be reconnecting with friends. But all I wanted to do was sit on couch watching movies and eat popcorn. I didn't want to mix. Pubs and clubs set off my PTSD.  

So, I reframed it. I needed to heal, I was deep in a huge transition period and I was in shock. Along came the anger and oh boy was I mad. It's all par for the course stoic. Anger is good. You have a lot to be angry about. Anger is also a surface emotion usually masking fear.

I really needed down time - for the first time in my life I had no one to fix. I had a great deal of time on my own. It was hard at first because I finally had to listen to all my issues,negativity and woes. Is this a good thing? You bet! Time to finally process my childhood.

Begin to look into your family dynamic stoic. There lies the answer to why you feel low self worth. Let your parents own their own crap.

Great book: www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0425172287. This book was paramount to my understanding an healing. And this one: www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0380810336.

We have been given an opportunity to really heal. Our ex's ignited what was already deep inside you.

Be kind to you!

[stoic83]

Hi both,

I have upped the sessions with T to twice a week... .  she is starting to speak with me about wise-mind and it's interesting to me... .  I have tested off the charts highly gifted in intuitive abilities... .  and my finest course work was in philosophy/math hybrid courses... .  which I believe may be the academic equivalent of wise-mind. ... .  e.g. "what the bleep do we know" one of my professors was in the movie, if you are familiar... .  

I hope to be able to afford the T sessions. I have been building software for the past 3 years... .  and the company is just about to start making money. I am socially a bit screwy right now... .  but I need to pull it together. I am just going to be comfortable with who I am and forget about all the self-doubt... .  maybe if i look like the crazy scientist type it could be a good thing? Lol.

Your sharing has really helped me get through today and some tough... .  "reasonable mind" work. It is so hard for me to do my work... .  which is highly intricate and specialized when I am going through this... .  it's unfortunate, because this software could really help thousands of people be more efficient and creative in their work.

I'm not exaggerating but I feel that with great power comes great responsibility... .  my truly great work and social experiences happen in a state of wise-mind. I found it impossible to be in this state around my ex wBPD... .  I feel that my work was mediocre... .  i was capable of doing it but I don't have the spark when I came up with the idea.

I also found my self to be in "reasonable mind" all of the time with her. I could never let loose and enter wise-mind because i was never relaxed or stimulated by any true sensitivity on her part... .  

It feels good to remember that what I am doing isn't selfish just because my business partners and everyone else seems obsessed with money, most likely to impress somebody else in their lives... .  my ex wBPD tried to make me feel that what I was doing with this business was selfish... .  and I almost believed her... .  I mean my dad also tried to rob me of 2/3 of the company... .  set me up.

Initially I started this company by the encouragement of peers and people I looked up to at the company I worked at. It's only when other people got involved with their virtues of extrinsic factors... .  that this vision got polluted. I find myself doing most of the dirty work in the company... .  though I am sharing the business with two other people that are helpful, but getting the better end of the bargain due to my combination of hard work and innate ability.

It's pretty good that I'm at least able to think about business right now... .  not able to do the work though. I think all the ruminating my brain is exhausted... .  and trying to force myself to do it is worse.

Its like 99% done... .  and there is a company that will pay to use it every month.

I've been close to homelessness before, and now that I think about it this relationship with BPDex made my job a lot more difficult and sucked up a lot of the creative energy and passion that I had.

Being an hsp, empath or whatever... .  I need some "muse like energy" or something... .  all of my current friendships lack emotion and creativity.

Here's to seeking meaning... .  in myself? Lol.

best,

stoic

[charred]

Stoic-

Not surprised you develop software. Itis a good diversion from dealing with emotions. I speak from long experience in same field. I couldn't work around my pwBPD... in fact I lost a job from the mess I had with her contacting me at work... while with customers. Most the rest of your comments are sounding a bit egoic ... I hope your able to get your mind in to what you are doing and make a success of it.

I was weak and got sucked in to having contact with my exBPDgf... was chatting on gmail then for a few days... .  ans he was all nice and friendly and why don't I come see her and so on. Then started in on the anti-myexwife stuff, and so on... basically went from seducer to clingy, then wanted to talk politics to show me how much she had changed... .  (we used to avoid it as we were at odds)... and she has changed... she is even worse than before... pure hater. So I let her know I was sorry to have talked to her... and she informed me that I am to blame this time... and wanted an apology for making the last 3-4 yrs pure hell for her. She had some kind of treatment for her STD... and wanted sympathy for that as well. Oh to have the brass set she seems to... not limited or even slowed by propriety. Anyway... the ego seems to be with us to trip us up, best I can tell. Glad to hear you are seeing a T, and the $14 that "A New Earth" runs... .  be willing to bet if you honestly give it a good shot, you will count that as some of the best money you have spent.

My reaction to all this nonsense with my pwBPD today... .  relaxing, getting mindful, and bought tickets to go to a game with my exwife and daughter and am starting to think I belong with them after all, and the rest of this whole BPD dream girl (nightmare)... was just that... .  a really bad mistake... .  that like a train wreck... I need to move along from.

Oh... my shortest summary of "A new earth" ... book on how to stop ruminating ... that works.

[stoic83]

Stoic-

Not surprised you develop software. Itis a good diversion from dealing with emotions. I speak from long experience in same field. I couldn't work around my pwBPD... in fact I lost a job from the mess I had with her contacting me at work... while with customers. Most the rest of your comments are sounding a bit egoic ... I hope your able to get your mind in to what you are doing and make a success of it.

I was weak and got sucked in to having contact with my exBPDgf... was chatting on gmail then for a few days... .  ans he was all nice and friendly and why don't I come see her and so on. Then started in on the anti-myexwife stuff, and so on... basically went from seducer to clingy, then wanted to talk politics to show me how much she had changed... .  (we used to avoid it as we were at odds)... and she has changed... she is even worse than before... pure hater. So I let her know I was sorry to have talked to her... and she informed me that I am to blame this time... and wanted an apology for making the last 3-4 yrs pure hell for her. She had some kind of treatment for her STD... and wanted sympathy for that as well. Oh to have the brass set she seems to... not limited or even slowed by propriety. Anyway... the ego seems to be with us to trip us up, best I can tell. Glad to hear you are seeing a T, and the $14 that "A New Earth" runs... .  be willing to bet if you honestly give it a good shot, you will count that as some of the best money you have spent.

My reaction to all this nonsense with my pwBPD today... .  relaxing, getting mindful, and bought tickets to go to a game with my exwife and daughter and am starting to think I belong with them after all, and the rest of this whole BPD dream girl (nightmare)... was just that... .  a really bad mistake... .  that like a train wreck... I need to move along from.

Oh... my shortest summary of "A new earth" ... book on how to stop ruminating ... that works.

Hey charred, I have like 13 eckhart tolle books on audio... .  I like his voice best, very soothing... .  

I have managed to protect part of my core self from the corruption of the collective insanity... .  and this is my core self that loves to make things fair and create less frustration for everybody.

I feel very lucky to be "abnormally intelligent" but it is both a blessing and a curse. I figure this is a place that is safe as any to talk about this. I am aware it may appear to be egoic, but calling it egoic... .  is more egoic?

I was very good at justifying my rs with my exwBPD through studying consciousness and also presence in the treatment of mental illness.

I thought if I could be present and validating and highly conscious that it would help her and help us and help to reduce the collective insanity. However, this plan backfired since denial is one of her main defense mechanisms... .  and consciousness eliminates denial.

I have always put truth before harmony. Because true harmony requires the truth.

In any case, I totally view the relationship w my ex wBPD and enlightening and soul-shaking experience. We both taught each other things... .  and ultimately the only long term damage is the chronic pelvic pain syndrome I've contracted... .  

Im hoping its some emotional pain that comes about with being sexually violated and goes away... and not some scarring from some bug she had. I had all the tests and im fine, but i cant afford the massage therapy that the urologist suggested.

Ego can be used for good right? I mean think about all of histories heroes... .  is it silly that we honor and respect them? They did what they did out of a higher state of consciousness... .  and a passion to make a difference... .  the universe acted through these people to better itself, right? Can I not be a channel for that greatness... .  just as you or the next guy?

So i have a chronic pain syndrome in my pelvis from this relationship and everytime it hurts i think about her... .  and it never goes away... .  sucks, right? I feel bitter as well.

Ive been through all of the analysis of my exgf w BPD and just want to cut the cords and meet someone who is more like me, a highly sensitive person... .  not a pd. I mistook my BPD gf's emotions as sensitivity and it was most certainly not the same thing as my sensitivity.

Her moments of empathy were over the top... .  and her love was fleeting. That's just the way it is.

Im not sure if it's emotional pain... .  or physical pain.,,but i really hope the chronic pelvic pain goes away because it reminds me of her.

The woman i was thinking of dating wrote back and seemed kind of stand-offish... .  I asked her to simply text me her phone number and she said:

"You can text me if you want, but i hope you dont expect me to have a long drawn out conversation. Im not a text conversation kind of person"

That seems pretty negative and labeling for a date email right? That sounds like a red flag bad note to start on?

I don't want to get slammed by a snob right now... .  

How do i get out of the date?


Stoic83

[Clearmind]

stoic - she is setting a boundary (albiet a bit poorly) - she doesn't like texting - try calling her and having that conversation.

Texting is highly impersonal and reserved for the 'on my way' type messages.

[charred]

Be honest ... .  if you want to be out of the date. However if you asked her you wanted to go out at one time, and if the comment on not wanting to text is the only reason... .  you may well be reading the situation wrong... she may not like texting... does she have a phone with a good keypad? Most the people I know that don't like to text have a flat screen phone or even an old dumb cellphone where you have to do weird things to text... so they don't like saying much that way. Doesn't make them a bad person to date. (Of course she could be a bunny boiler... hope not.) An evening with a snob isn't the end of the world... if they really are that way, keep it to just an evening, moving on with another person can be good, compared to ruminating on the same person and avoiding people.

Are you really wanting to cancel out, or having a loss of nerve, or case of nerves... .  from your pwBPD?

Still planning on taking another shot with the pwBPD? Its hard to move forward when you are stuck on someone.

Is this chronic pelvis thing real... .  or are you alluding to being horny?

[stoic83]

Be honest ... .  if you want to be out of the date. However if you asked her you wanted to go out at one time, and if the comment on not wanting to text is the only reason... .  you may well be reading the situation wrong... she may not like texting... does she have a phone with a good keypad? Most the people I know that don't like to text have a flat screen phone or even an old dumb cellphone where you have to do weird things to text... so they don't like saying much that way. Doesn't make them a bad person to date. (Of course she could be a bunny boiler... hope not.) An evening with a snob isn't the end of the world... if they really are that way, keep it to just an evening, moving on with another person can be good, compared to ruminating on the same person and avoiding people.

Are you really wanting to cancel out, or having a loss of nerve, or case of nerves... .  from your pwBPD?

Still planning on taking another shot with the pwBPD? Its hard to move forward when you are stuck on someone.

Is this chronic pelvis thing real... .  or are you alluding to being horny?

Hmmm... .  I guess I don't know how I would handle rejection right now. I guess there is only one way to find out... .  

I wrote her back and said:

"Hmm... i used to be the same way, but acquiesced . I don't date that often... .  i just want to have a pleasant experience:)

Hmm okay... well then I will call. I should've just asked for your number.

Are you highly sensitive? "


Yes the CPPS thing is real. And yes it does suck. Look it up if you want... .  its probably worse from all of the coding and sitting... .  

Supposedly theres some theory about it stating that it happens when a humans "tail goes between it's legs". Anderson-wise protocol... .  in any case, I believe it.

Im HSP... .  and if i were in a wolf pack i would be the alpha, and my tail would be between my legs... .  due to the disturbing and "inhuman" displays via my BPD ex... .  lack of empathy, violent threats... .  etc. In human culture the alpha is not HSP... .  in fact is most likely not very sensitive.

Well this is just a theory... .  but i guess it makes sense. Seeing how my ex wBPD was with animals... .  and her splitting... .  i could understand. Very confusing for an empathetic dog (my dog myles) or an empathetic human.

Myles was rescued from the high kill animal shelter and was obviously beaten and neglected by previous owners. He's got a little mean in him... .  but is so loving and empathetic. He would keep my ex wBPD company when she was at her worst... .  in the end she split him black too. It was so obvious how sick she is from just that alone. How could she ever talk bad about an animal that was so loving to her?

I just dont get it... .  

Stoic

[stoic83]

stoic - she is setting a boundary (albiet a bit poorly) - she doesn't like texting - try calling her and having that conversation.

Texting is highly impersonal and reserved for the 'on my way' type messages.

Thanks Clearmind, that's what she says... .  she uses texting for logistics only. I only asked for her number though, via text. I thought that was the easiest way for her to contact me so that I could call her?

In any case, i felt it was bit overly cautious and I felt a little offended that she would assume I would have the time to send her mass quantities of text messages... .  I guess Im a little wordy on these boards, so maybe she was just being intuitive?

I never used to text either... .  my ex wBPD would text me non stop all the time and when i was younger i hated it... .  but now its like second nature. So sad how much i changed... .  I used to think texting was a huge waste of time and inefficient way of communicating and distracting!

JK

[Clearmind]

We all come with experience, history – you are aware of your own however you may not be aware of hers. She may have been dumped over text before, or insulted, or and you will know this little pearler ---- circular arguments of text!   Who us - we never experienced that .

She has her reasons - respect them.

Could we treat this situation a little more simply without assuming and just look at the facts without throwing in a bunch of emotion (and you really cannot be sure what she is thinking – probably a non-issue). OK the facts: she doesn't like texting. The fact she doesn’t like texting, is about her not you. Emotions: you are offended.

Ok so it can hurt a little when we are put in our place – remember the facts. Texting sucks  .

[stoic83]

Could we treat this situation a little more simply without assuming and just look at the facts without throwing in a bunch of emotion (and you really cannot be sure what she is thinking – probably a non-issue). OK the facts: she doesn't like texting. The fact she doesn’t like texting, is about her not you. Emotions: you are offended.

Ok so it can hurt a little when we are put in our place – remember the facts. Texting sucks  .

Haha... .  I look at things from such a skewed persepective. Maybe I'm too defensive and oversensitive for dating? I have always taken drastic measures to avoid reminding a woman from all the other "creepy guys that hit on them"... .  I guess that is why I was such a sucker for my BPD... .  she made sure to let me know I was different from all the other guys.

I consider myself to be empathetic, but it doesn't seem to me that I'm being very empathetic... .  I'm more concerned about being perceived as the bad guy... .  this is exactly how I feel right now. Like all I'm trying to do is talk to a woman, and I automatically trigger every memory she has of a bad man and projects on to me... .  

I feel a lot of pressure to overcome these boundaries... .  that sounds bad. I mean if she really was interested in me, why would she put up a boundary like that? If i was interested in a woman, I wouldn't put up a boundary like that... .  it almost seems like a game, to command respect? Men respect women with boundaries?

I have very poor boundary control... .  I don't have many, and I don't understand why my exwBPD had such rigid and inflexible boundaries about food and personal supplies. I don't care about people eating my food or using my shampoo... .  she explained it to me and mentioned that in her past she lived with a lot of step siblings and didnt have her own personal space etc... .  she was very angry and not good with sharing things... .  said she would "pay for herself to take the burden off of me"... .  rigid boundaries and a princess mentality have destroyed any chivalry on my part. I feel like Im a rigid "equalist" these days, and I do not want to be the pursuer nor the pursued.

She told me to not speak poorly about her family... .  but I couldn't help it, because I felt they treated her terribly. I repeatedly violated her boundary about that... .  as if I had limited control over it because I was so emotionally charged about it... .  not a good feeling to feel like you can't control venting about your gf wBPD family when you know it hurts her feelings, and you are supposed to be the strong perfect one that does no wrong.

In the end she had no respect for my boundaries, and as soon as I really put up boundaries... .  she painted me black. I feel like I'm a bit of a boundary "resenter" right now... .  I dont know why but other peoples boundaries seem unreasonable to me right now, though they are completely reasonable.

I guess I'm worried I might be too easily offended for dating right now... .  Im oversensitive and take boundaries as an insult (the way my exwBPD did). Maybe Ive always been like this... .  I never approach women,  im sensitive to being perceived as a threat to a young attractive woman, in southern california women get approached constantly... .  I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, so I avoid doing it out of respect... .  all the women ive dated have been aggressive/obssessive towards me.

Aside from that, I've never been too keen on meeting strangers... .  I just have limited options at this point and need to build some social support... .  I think dating might be the wrong avenue, maybe I should just tell her I've wussed out and thought I was ready to date, but wasn't?

Maybe its better just to ride out the storm with therapy, eckhart tolle, the books clearmind mentioned, and start socializing again when i'm feeling stronger? I feel like I've wasted enough of my youth in a dead end relationship and i need to create some new memories with new women.

Maybe dating is too nerve-wracking for me at this point and time... .  I just dont know if it is going to get any better working in a home office with my anxiety disordered business partner.I just want to break the trauma bond and meet some new women to take my mind off of the one w BPD.

I am sure that is what she is doing, and if she ever comes around... .  I dont want her to be a fish in my sea. I just want to validate that there are other women out there that appreciate me and that I have more in common with.

If my ex comes to my door I feel like there is an 80% chance i will not open it. I don't think she will, but she has done it before and I don't know what she is capable of. Hopefully she has found someone else. I don't want to know about it... .  I am sure my emotional mind is keeping this drama alive because it is feeling empty... .  I think on this last breakup I made sure that she won't want to contact me anymore(i told her aa sponsor i thought her dad raped her as a child). I could have been wrong... .  i don't know why i did that... .  but honestly i felt that for 2 years and she was screaming about how she was trying to figure out if her dad raped her sister for the past 4 years). Im so disturbed... .  

Maybe I should just do a meetup or something else where there isn't any one on one pressure... .  I just dont know if i can stomach any overt rudeness or disgusted attitude from a date right now... .  I think I would just walk right out, .

This is the attitude that has kept me in recycle mode for relationships with bp. I feel like I've got a couple months before she comes back after me... .  and I need to stand my ground... .  it feels like if i was dating other women it would protect me from her.

I just feel like damaged goods... .  im oversensitive, projecting, and ridiculously insecure.

If the new young woman with the upfront boundaries doesn't respond back to my email asking her if shes highly sensitive than I wont call... .  I mean she has my number as well, if she wants to get in touch she can always call me.

Best

Stoic

[Clearmind]

Good insight!

If the new young woman with the upfront boundaries doesn't respond back to my email asking her if shes highly sensitive than I wont call... .  I mean she has my number as well, if she wants to get in touch she can always call me.

Best

Stoic

And wow! Boundaries - imagine that

I applaud folks with boundaries. Boundaries are to protect us and protect our values. You are doing great stoic and I'm glad you saw the humor in my point.