Figuring out my choices

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have been to the house for the past 9 days straight.  At least.  Last weekend was bad.  This week has been a bit better.  and the past two nights have been ok. 

I am so confused about what she WANTS.  Tonight it wasn't a rant, though if I had stayed longer it would have gotten there because I can not make sense of what she is saying.

I treat her as my wife and as someone I care about and am attracted to.  She tells me the elevator can't magically go from the lobby to the 26th floor without passing all the other floors (an escalating scale of affectionate behavior).  The 26th floor is apparently me coming up behind her and hugging her.  Yet, she is annoyed at what she describes as small talk.  You have nothing to talk about except small talk.  Small talk today was our children, their relationships with peers, parents, step parents, finances, events she runs, issues with the house, and more about kids with some attempts to talk about anything that is important to her.  All of it... .  small talk... .  and not worthy attempts at engaging her.  For me... .  those are maybe floors 2-5 to say the least.  And there has been a lot more to my efforts... .  small kindnesses, kind words, tenderness. 

I am frustrated and feeling like it is an unsolvable situation.  If I am not working my butt off to show her I choose her, then she feels I am degrading, rejecting, and pushing her down into her pit of despair.  If I am working my tail off, then I am taking a rocket to the top of the building and that does not work for her either.

[thefisherman]

I have been to the house for the past 9 days straight.  At least.  Last weekend was bad.  This week has been a bit better.  and the past two nights have been ok. 

I am so confused about what she WANTS.  Tonight it wasn't a rant, though if I had stayed longer it would have gotten there because I can not make sense of what she is saying.

I treat her as my wife and as someone I care about and am attracted to.  She tells me the elevator can't magically go from the lobby to the 26th floor without passing all the other floors (an escalating scale of affectionate behavior).  The 26th floor is apparently me coming up behind her and hugging her.  Yet, she is annoyed at what she describes as small talk.  You have nothing to talk about except small talk.  Small talk today was our children, their relationships with peers, parents, step parents, finances, events she runs, issues with the house, and more about kids with some attempts to talk about anything that is important to her.  All of it... .  small talk... .  and not worthy attempts at engaging her.  For me... .  those are maybe floors 2-5 to say the least.  And there has been a lot more to my efforts... .  small kindnesses, kind words, tenderness. 

I am frustrated and feeling like it is an unsolvable situation.  If I am not working my butt off to show her I choose her, then she feels I am degrading, rejecting, and pushing her down into her pit of despair.  If I am working my tail off, then I am taking a rocket to the top of the building and that does not work for her either.

[livednlearned]

The reason you are confused by what she wants is because she already has what she wants.

She wants you completely hooked on guilt, obligation, and fear. That's the goal.

She is not on your team. She is now the referee and the coach of the opposing team, and she changes the rules and moves the goalposts anytime she wants.

[Matt]

I am frustrated and feeling like it is an unsolvable situation.  If I am not working my butt off to show her I choose her, then she feels I am degrading, rejecting, and pushing her down into her pit of despair.  If I am working my tail off, then I am taking a rocket to the top of the building and that does not work for her either.

So what choices do you see for yourself, right now?

Where do you see things going?

[thefisherman]

Choices i see... .  

Continue doing... .  hoping it feels more like what she wants so I can return to my family and home with her acceptance.

Stay where I am, at m in-laws' every night, hopefully seeing my kids most days.

file for custody, whether it is in the context of divorce or not (not sure how that plays out with me staying at her parents' house).

Move home.  See if SHE will file something or move out.

If I move back and she moves out (which I think is the most likely scenario and to likely include some major tantrum/physical abuse in the process), then I have to decide whether to tolerate her taking the kids or file for custody.

All of which either entails me acquiescing to some/most/all of what she wants or having a legal conflict of epic proportions.

Hating all options except the one where she changes her view of me.

[DreamGirl]

It sounds like it's very dependent on her as to what you do.

Sometimes it's better to concoct our own plan. Take an inventory of your priorities.

The pros and cons of staying/leaving.

Is that an option for you?

[Matt]

It sounds like it's very dependent on her as to what you do.

Sometimes it's better to concoct our own plan. Take an inventory of your priorities.

The pros and cons of staying/leaving.

Is that an option for you?

Yeah, I think that's a key:  Accepting that she is how she is, and her behavior is probably going to stay like it is (or maybe get worse), and you have to make choices based on that.

[thefisherman]

I can't say I like my choices.

[livednlearned]

I can't say I like my choices.

Yeah, the choices are tough.

Be good for you to see a T who can help you with your guilt.

[Matt]

I can't say I like my choices.

You listed them here - and I think you get that the one where she changes her view of you isn't very realistic?

That leaves:

1  Stay at in-laws and hope to see kids most days

2  File for custody

3  Move home

4  Move home and file for custody

Is that right?  Any other options?

Do you think the marriage can be saved, and do you want to save it?  Or do you think the marriage will end?

[DreamGirl]

From this book: Contemplating Divorce: A Step by Step Guide to Deciding - Susan Gadoua, LCSW

Knowing If You Should Stay or Go

While there are no quick, easy answers and no “one size fits all” reasons to offer, I will give you parameters within which to gauge whether or not you should remain married to your spouse or leave. I can’t give you your answer. I can only guide you to find your truth for this moment. Your part will be to follow along and read with honest introspection so you can identify your answer.

You’ve arrived at the heart of the book. This is what you’ve wanted to learn: how to know if you should stay in the marriage or leave it, why you should stay or go, and when to follow through with your decision.

When I meet for the first time with a client who is considering divorce, I can often get a sense of whether the scales are tipped toward staying or leaving from the reason he or she gives for wanting to stay married.

If the desire to stay married is based on moving toward a goal, the person is more likely to stay married; for example, “I want to raise my children in one house with two parents” or “I want to work on my anger issues and get on the other side of them.”

On the other hand, when people explain that they are staying in the marriage to avoid pain or fear, this indicates that the marriage hasn’t much glue, and such marriages aren’t as likely to endure; for instance, “I’m staying because I’m afraid of not seeing my children every day,” “I don’t know how I’d make ends meet without my spouse,” or “No one will ever love me like this again.”

Once I hear the reasoning for staying in the marriage, I ask why the client might want to get a divorce. The same rule applies: those who are contemplating leaving to move toward a goal are more likely to actually leave than those who are averting pain or potential consequences. Examples of going toward a goal or away from a fear are “I want more out of life than staying in an unhappy marriage” or “I need to get away from this abuse.”

Even though all of these reasons have merit and sound powerful, you may wonder how I know that the person who is moving toward a goal will more likely take action than the one who is running away from or trying to avoid pain. The answer is simple: fear.

Those who are motivated primarily by avoiding pain are usually fear-based people. These people see the world through the eyes of whatever problems and negative repercussions might arise from their actions. They are often imprisoned by their fears, not only as they pertain to deciding whether to stay in or leave their marriages, but in all areas of their lives. These people will more likely stay small, unhappy, and unfulfilled with the thought that they will remain safe.

Action-based people have the opposite view of the world. When they set their sights on a goal, they see what opportunities and benefits might come from moving forward. These people are more willing to take risks and go for what they want. They will also less likely settle for less than what they believe they deserve.

Of course, you can be partially both fear and action based, but whichever mode is dominant will usually win the arguments in your mind about whether to stay or go. The good news is that these aspects are not necessarily set in stone. If you are primarily a fear-based person but would rather be action based, you can push through your fears and accomplish your goals. Most people need some training or support to make these changes, but it is an alteration that anyone can make.

In addition to examining fear-avoidant versus goal-oriented behaviors in the decision-making process, I look at whose needs are driving the decision. In a decision as big as whether or not to stay married, it is imperative that you consider the possible ramifications your leaving may have on others, but you must also balance that with your own needs. Where I see people go wrong in such a decision is when they forgo their own needs and focus primarily on meeting the needs of their spouses or children, or, on the contrary, they consider only their own needs and ignore the potential impact on their children and spouses.


Where do you see yourself in that, thefisherman?

[nylonsquid]

OP-

My exBPDgf blamed me for holding a 'secret relationship' behind her back. There is truth to it in that I hadn't told her early in our relationship that there was this REALLY nice girl that liked me but that I wasn't interested in and one that I was trying to just be friends with, IF that was possible. If I had told her any of this it would make her insecure.

So after she found out about all this which was months after I had any contact with the other girl, she freaked out and pushed me away: "I never wanna see you ever again". She claimed I ruined things and blablabla. I thought that maybe I did ruin things but upon closer look, I realized she was pushing me even BEFORE any of this happened. She just had a good excuse for it now. Sooner or later they will hold on to something/anything that they will guilt you so that leaving you would be justified or to keep you feeling guilty and responsible so you won't leave scotch free.

My thought.

[thefisherman]

From this book: Contemplating Divorce: A Step by Step Guide to Deciding - Susan Gadoua, LCSW

Knowing If You Should Stay or Go

Where do you see yourself in that, thefisherman?

Looking through this thread, i see me writing about acting both from fear and toward goals. 

My goals are to save my marriage and to raise my children.

My fears are being abused, manipulated, taken advantage of and losing my children.

I think my wife acts largely from fears.  I hear two goals from her but only actions to support the later: She wants to be loved.  She wants to keep our children always with her.  Seems to me, the easiest way to reach her 2nd goal is to participate toward the first.  I also hear a lot to conflict with the notion that she wants ME to help her with the 1st goal.

[DreamGirl]

I think my wife acts largely from fears.  I hear two goals from her but only actions to support the later: She wants to be loved.  She wants to keep our children always with her.  Seems to me, the easiest way to reach her 2nd goal is to participate toward the first.  I also hear a lot to conflict with the notion that she wants ME to help her with the 1st goal.

You do love her though. She just doesn't believe you.

That's her choice. 

[thefisherman]

I think my wife acts largely from fears.  I hear two goals from her but only actions to support the later: She wants to be loved.  She wants to keep our children always with her.  Seems to me, the easiest way to reach her 2nd goal is to participate toward the first.  I also hear a lot to conflict with the notion that she wants ME to help her with the 1st goal.

You do love her though. She just doesn't believe you.

That's her choice. 

She chooses not to believe me.  I still love her.

She behaves based on her belief.  her choices of behavior are very painful to me. 

In a world where she never feels loved and acts out, my choice is to hold the rope or let go.

But in a world where she eventually sees my actions for what they are... .  she helps me pull her back up.

Bleh.

[DreamGirl]

What part of it is her not believing she is lovable?

If there is truth to that, there is not anything that you can do about that. That is her belief that can not be fixed by you - or anyone else for that matter.

From our steps on Choosing a Path:

Actually, if your partner is suffering from BPD or BPD traits, they are living in an emotional world that is very foreign to most of us and they are suffering with very deep wounds. Much of what they do can be understood by learning more about the illness. Sometimes they misperceive or misunderstand a situation which causes them intense emotional pain. Some of their coping is so dysfunctional that it is simply harmful to them. Sometimes they are so uncomfortable with themselves they take it out on others to relieve their own pain or make themselves feel valued.

This is a complex disorder. There are many manifestations of it. There are many degrees of illness.

The goal for us is to gain enough knowledge to understand the chaos we've been living with and what is likely going on. All of this is important in understanding what our reality is. It's likely different than we perceive it. We commonly have many misconceptions. For example, it is often thought that there are two people inside our partner and the goal is to eliminate the bad one.

I don't know that you are accepting your wife as a whole person - good and bad.

Again, you are very dependent on her and what she does.

That will leave you in a "stuck" kind of place. Waiting. Wishing. Hoping. Wondering.

If you start listing your priorities.

Your fears.

Your goals.

Risks.

Outcomes.

I wonder what that might look like? I feel like you're almost afraid to even do that.  

[Matt]

In a world where she never feels loved and acts out, my choice is to hold the rope or let go.

But in a world where she eventually sees my actions for what they are... .  she helps me pull her back up.

Which of these worlds is real?

[thefisherman]

What part of it is her not believing she is lovable?

I don't know.  She says... .  usually projecting these thoughts on to me... .  

I'm always the bad guy.

I can't love you.  look at how mean you are.

I can't say kind words to you.  You don't deserve to hear kind words.

I would say a lot of it is her feeling unlovable.  She credits me with making her feel lovable in the first place with statements like "you made me feel attractive when I probably had no business feeling that way." followed by statements like "and then you took away everything that mattered to me".

So she feels unlovable and I am both the reason she felt lovable in the time table of our relationship and the reason she now feels like trash.

Thus... .  she wants me to give back what I took away.

I don't know that you are accepting your wife as a whole person - good and bad.

She is one person, yes.  She is fun and wonderful.  She will turn psychotic if things are not done her way.

Again, you are very dependent on her and what she does.

yes.  the relationship does not move unless she is participating.  I don't know if that is how things work or if I am putting too much into her behavior/choices.  I want things to work.  I don't see that I can make them work alone.  And if i follow that all the way... .  if i can't make it work alone and she wont participate then I am left... .  waiting OR choosing to head down a separate path that doesn't depend on her participation.  A path that is strictly for me. 

That will leave you in a "stuck" kind of place. Waiting. Wishing. Hoping. Wondering.

Yes... .  waiting for her to feel lovable... .  to let me back home... .  to divorce me... .  or kill me... .  or leave me alone.

If you start listing your priorities.

Your fears.

Your goals.

Risks.

Outcomes.

I wonder what that might look like? I feel like you're almost afraid to even do that. 

what is important to me:

1. My childrens' wellbeing - This includes performing in my job so I can provide for them, making sure they are physically taken care of, working on their education, protecting them from harmful situations... .  including the conflict between my wife and I, raising them

2. My mental and physical wellbeing - Getting enough sleep, exercising, managing stress, eating well, staying out of the abusive cycle

3. My relationship with my wife - giving and receiving love, supporting and being supported, working toward common goals for our family

Just to be clear... .  I don't always or consistently apply my energies to my real priorities.

What am I afraid of:

top 3... .  

being relegated to a weekend dad

Failing my kids in any capacity

more abuse


What do I want to accomplish:

1. Build and maintain strong relationships with all my kids that last my lifetime and affect their lives and relationships... .  both with their significant others and with their kids in positive ways.

2. To feel confident in who I am, what I stand for, and to live my life in agreement with those principals.

3.     - Heal wounds I have inflicted on my wife. 

   - Feel secure that I have loved my wife beyond my own doubt.   

   - Define, communicate, and live within boundaries that agree with my principals.

What could go wrong. 

My wife could work long and hard to alienate my kids from me.  she has had some success already.

I could get badly injured... .  go crazy... .  get arrested.

I am frankly already depressed and have been wondering if there is more that isn't right w/ me.

What could I win or lose.

kids, house, job, wife, friends, respect, dignity, comfort, happiness

What do you think?

[patientandclear]

The reason you are confused by what she wants is because she already has what she wants.

She wants you completely hooked on guilt, obligation, and fear. That's the goal.

She is not on your team. She is now the referee and the coach of the opposing team, and she changes the rules and moves the goalposts anytime she wants.

Hmm -- LNL, I hope you don't mind if I gently disagree.  I doubt this is intended to manipulate Thefisherman.  I suspect it is happening because she is both incredibly insecure, needs constant demonstration of your devotion & commitment; and because she is terrified of devotion and commitment (the 26th floor).  It's an awful Catch 22, yes, but I don't think it helps to overlook that it is driven by real fears and anxieties that she has and that she probably has no working tools to deal with.

[53787]

Just a thought: If your wife is truly BPD, consider the effect it will have on your kids. Maybe a plan should include a plan to have full custody and also shielding them from the BPD behavior. If your wife is abusing you, call the police when she is physically abusive. That will immediately remove her from the house and then place a restraining order on her. Believe me I know these are difficult choices, but they are choices I've wrestled with myself. No action will run the risk of allowing your wife's BPD to have damaging effects on the kids (which is the highest priority). Your wife will not improve and the situation will only get worse over time (my opinion). Maybe you should get out while the kids are still young. There are lawyers who specialize in dealing with BPD.

[DreamGirl]

I'm always the bad guy.

I can't love you.  look at how mean you are.

I can't say kind words to you.  You don't deserve to hear kind words.

OK - what does this mean to you? You say projections, and there is definitely truth in that, but I also see feelings ruling her roost.  

Are you always the bad guy? No. You are not.

That's a feeling in a moment. A pwBPD tends to live in the moment and it truly feels, when she's feeling bad, that it's all your fault. She's not giving you a line, that is her reality. It's the push/pull - she pushes you away because she feels bad and is blaming you, but then abandonment sets in and she's desperate for you to come back.

She is completely dependent on you for regulating her emotions because she can't do it.

The hard truth? You can't do it for her.

Most of us have to work hard on doing it for ourselves. Think of your own fear right now and how you are desperately trying to regulate that fear. Only you can do that though - it's certainly not her job to do it for you. Or mine, or anybody's.  

This pattern of blaming you, and then you trying to help her feel better (and vice versa her blaming herself, and then you trying to help her feel better) is probably what has lead up to this kind of dynamic in your marriage:  

I would say a lot of it is her feeling unlovable.  She credits me with making her feel lovable in the first place with statements like "you made me feel attractive when I probably had no business feeling that way." followed by statements like "and then you took away everything that mattered to me".

So she feels unlovable and I am both the reason she felt lovable in the time table of our relationship and the reason she now feels like trash.

Thus... .  she wants me to give back what I took away.

She is one person, yes.  She is fun and wonderful.  She will turn psychotic if things are not done her way.

OK. Is there a belief that the part you don't like will someday go away?

It is important to remember that every single one of us is a whole person - good, bad, beautiful, ugly, strengths, and shortcomings. Loving someone is loving them as they are.

 

So do you want/need her to change?

If the answer is yes, would she be open to that she needs to work on some of her shortcomings?

I want things to work.  I don't see that I can make them work alone.  And if i follow that all the way... .  if i can't make it work alone and she wont participate then I am left... .  waiting OR choosing to head down a separate path that doesn't depend on her participation.  A path that is strictly for me.

I think you are right, thefisherman. We can only control our part of the relationship. She gets to control hers.

what is important to me:

1. My childrens' wellbeing - This includes performing in my job so I can provide for them, making sure they are physically taken care of, working on their education, protecting them from harmful situations... .  including the conflict between my wife and I, raising them

2. My mental and physical wellbeing - Getting enough sleep, exercising, managing stress, eating well, staying out of the abusive cycle

3. My relationship with my wife - giving and receiving love, supporting and being supported, working toward common goals for our family

Just to be clear... .  I don't always or consistently apply my energies to my real priorities.

What am I afraid of:

top 3... .  

being relegated to a weekend dad

Failing my kids in any capacity

more abuse


What do I want to accomplish:

1. Build and maintain strong relationships with all my kids that last my lifetime and affect their lives and relationships... .  both with their significant others and with their kids in positive ways.

2. To feel confident in who I am, what I stand for, and to live my life in agreement with those principals.

3.     - Heal wounds I have inflicted on my wife.  

   - Feel secure that I have loved my wife beyond my own doubt.  

   - Define, communicate, and live within boundaries that agree with my principals.

What could go wrong.  

My wife could work long and hard to alienate my kids from me.  she has had some success already.

I could get badly injured... .  go crazy... .  get arrested.

I am frankly already depressed and have been wondering if there is more that isn't right w/ me.

What could I win or lose.

kids, house, job, wife, friends, respect, dignity, comfort, happiness

I just want to point out one thing in these lists.

I don't know if it was subconscious or not.

Your wife comes last on your lists. It may mean something, or nothing at all. It's just an observation in that our first thought is usually our best thought - before the clouds of doubt and indecision sets in.

In those lists, do you think that what is important to you is possible?

If the answer is "yes" - then you have foundation. If the answer is "no" - then you have a conundrum in that you have to figure out what you're willing to give up in order to make the other priorities come to fruition. Right now you're sacrificing yourself and being a parent to make your wife happy. Is that something you are willing to continue?

[Matt]

That's a feeling in a moment. A pwBPD tends to live in the moment and it truly feels, when she's feeling bad, that it's all your fault. She's not giving you a line, that is her reality. It's the push/pull - she pushes you away because she feels bad and is blaming you, but then abandonment sets in and she's desperate for you to come back.

Let me elaborate a little on this, because I think it's really important.

My wife used to accuse me of being unfaithful to her.  She named specific women:  "I know there's something going on between you and X!".

Over time, I came to realize that what she was saying was true - she did know that.  Not because I was cheating on her - I never did - but because in her mind she was sure of it.

She had experienced bad stuff in childhood, and BPD is often linked with strong feelings of abandonment.  I think she feared I would leave her, and those feelings made her believe something bad must be happening - or she wouldn't be so afraid.  Something bad like me cheating.

I think when she said, "I know that... .  ", she really did know it.  Even though, objectively, it wasn't true.

So when DreamGirls says, "She's not giving you a line, that is her reality.", I think that's probably very true, and it may explain a lot.  She isn't the villain - in her mind, she is probably convinced, at that moment, that you really are the bad guy.

And it's probably no more likely that you will convince her otherwise, than it is that she will convince you of her view.  You're not likely to be convinced that the world is different from how you perceive it than she is.

This is very tough to accept!  We very reasonably assume that others see the world pretty much as we do.  So it's hard to accept that someone who is intelligent and seems to function well, could be living in a very different world and seeing things very differently.  And that is her reality, and without extensive therapy, it will probably continue to be the world she lives in.

[thefisherman]

Been a while since I updated this here.

I am back in the house since last Wednesday (one week ago).  Have had good and not so good.  This morning was not so good.  I took d10 to school.  Wife tried to call after we left to confirm whether she needed her gym bag (she didn't btw).  I forgot my phone at home.  School is 5 minutes away.  I came back after dropping her off to get my phone.  Wife was mad about it.  Goes into a rant of how I give her migranes and stress and don't do anything to improve her life and I'm a completely incompetent, thoughtless, jerk and she can't even depend on me to have my phone.  She talks about the fact that during the affair, she couldn't get ahold of me then and this just brings all of the affair talk right back. 

It comes down to... .  she would like a dramatic transformation (of me) into the person she always wanted + the person I was (that she loved) in order for her to feel comfortable in the relationship.  She's not going to 'end it' because she is more afraid of co-parenting and sharing the kids with me than she is bullying me and having everything 'under control'. 

What is my plan?  My plan is to be the best parent I can, reestablish myself as my children's in-home father, attempt to be the best husband I can, and bide my time for 90 days (I was in/out of the house for chunks of Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb.  All told, about 90 days.  I feel like I need to get that at least as far behind me as it lasted before I am in an ok position to change anything.  After 90 days, I will evaluate whether the relationship is acceptable, improving... .  kind of like a performance improvement plan.  I will try hard to do everything she wants/needs. 

Where I am unsure... .  what do I do if/when she is screaming at me in front of the kids?  throwing stuff?  cursing?  hurting herself?  hurting me?  What is the right thing to do in all those cases?

[Matt]

After 90 days, I will evaluate whether the relationship is acceptable, improving... .  kind of like a performance improvement plan.

No, this is nothing like a "performance improvement plan".

You can't fix this by yourself.  If your wife is not committing to your plan, then you are at high risk.

I will try hard to do everything she wants/needs. 

Has that worked in the past?

(Never worked for me.)

Where I am unsure... .  what do I do if/when she is screaming at me in front of the kids?  throwing stuff?  cursing?  hurting herself?  hurting me?  What is the right thing to do in all those cases?

Get away from her and make sure there is a locked door between you all the time.

Do not be in the same room with her, unless there is a non-family adult third party present.

Find a good criminal defense attorney and keep his card with you 24/7.  You're likely to need it.

[AbayaLady]

Let me elaborate a little on this, because I think it's really important.

My wife used to accuse me of being unfaithful to her.  She named specific women:  "I know there's something going on between you and X!".

Over time, I came to realize that what she was saying was true - she did know that.  Not because I was cheating on her - I never did - but because in her mind she was sure of it.

... .  

This is very tough to accept!  We very reasonably assume that others see the world pretty much as we do.  So it's hard to accept that someone who is intelligent and seems to function well, could be living in a very different world and seeing things very differently.  And that is her reality, and without extensive therapy, it will probably continue to be the world she lives in.

Mike, this is happening to me right now, and my uBPDh will bring up the same "incidents" he's imagined (hearing noises while we're on the phone etc) and demand I explain them. I've learned not to bother but it always comes back.

You say she "used to" accuse you. Does this mean you're not together anymore or did she stop? You mentioned extensive therapy—if she stopped, was this helpful? I know every situation is different but I wanted to get some info from people with experience.

My husband is saying he's open to therapy now, but we'll see what happens next week. I know it will be a long road if he goes and that things may never improve. I want to at least give it a shot.

Thefisherman: Sorry I hijacked your thread. I hope things have become clearer. You sound like you're in a dark place and feel like things are kind of hopeless. Please COMMIT to taking care of yourself whether you stay or go—it can only help and is one of the few things you can control.

[Matt]

You say she "used to" accuse you. Does this mean you're not together anymore or did she stop? You mentioned extensive therapy—if she stopped, was this helpful? I know every situation is different but I wanted to get some info from people with experience.

She may still be accusing me of stuff - I don't know because I'm not around her.

What happened was that after 10 years of marriage - 4 kids - every day I told myself "She's unhappy so she'll get help soon!" and every day I was wrong - finally she melted down completely, assaulted me, then called 911 and accused me of assaulting here.  The police investigated and gathered evidence which later exonerated me.  But we both spent that night in jail.  And sitting in jail, I realized our marriage wasn't working.

I found this place later, after our marriage counselor - we both wanted to fix the marriage - told me she probably had BPD and I should learn about it.

One thing I learned was that it doesn't just get better, and while there are some things we can do to keep the peace - we can learn what triggers the other person, and try to avoid doing those things - the bottom line is that BPD is a form of mental illness and it must be treated.  Treatment is very effective in most cases, but unfortunately most people with BPD never accept treatment, so they won't get better.

And every time we go back, they learn that they can treat us badly and get away with it.  Not a good thing to teach someone!

My criminal defense attorney told me, "Either tell me now that you'll never be alone with  her again, without a non-family adult third party present -and mean it - or find yourself another attorney."  He didn't want to waste his time trying to defend someone who was making things worse.

[livednlearned]

What is my plan?  My plan is to be the best parent I can, reestablish myself as my children's in-home father, attempt to be the best husband I can, and bide my time for 90 days (I was in/out of the house for chunks of Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb.  All told, about 90 days.  I feel like I need to get that at least as far behind me as it lasted before I am in an ok position to change anything.  After 90 days, I will evaluate whether the relationship is acceptable, improving... .  kind of like a performance improvement plan.  I will try hard to do everything she wants/needs. 

Why 90 days? Is that your number, or did you talk to an L who told you it was the right number to establish yourself as the "in-home father" for legal reasons?

[thefisherman]

90 days is my number pulled out of the air.

Mostly picked so I can feel like I legitimately put forth the effor too be a supportive loving husband for a significant period of time. 

And having a legal basis or not I do think it sufficiently re-establishes my status as in-hope father.

I don't know that I can sleep on this couch for the next 81 days though.  My back is not going to take kindly to that.

[livednlearned]

90 days is my number pulled out of the air.

Mostly picked so I can feel like I legitimately put forth the effor too be a supportive loving husband for a significant period of time. 

And having a legal basis or not I do think it sufficiently re-establishes my status as in-hope father.

I don't know that I can sleep on this couch for the next 81 days though.  My back is not going to take kindly to that.

"in-hope father" made me smile.

I gently disagree that this is a plan, fisherman. It's something, but not quite a plan.

A plan would be: I will talk to 3 lawyers and ask for their counsel. I will find the name of a criminal attorney and have that information ready in case I need it. I will learn whether it is legal for me to record my ex during times I fear for her safety, mine, or the kids. I will document everything and back it up. I will find a T to help me through this. If my wife physically hurts me or the children, or threatens me with the same, I will retain an L and do what's best for my kids. I will photocopy all essential documents, and put important papers in a safe, protected place. I will get something comfortable to sleep on so I am rested for this.

A good plan does have a deadline, but what happens if you hit that 90 day mark and nothing has changed. What if things have gotten worse?

People here care about you. Many of us have been in your shoes, and that's why we're here. I was in your position for 4 years. 7 if I count the first threat. Regardless of what you decide, we just want you to protect yourself. Hopefully you never have to use any of it, but if you do, it's there, and you have some tools to work with, which is best for your kids. They need a dad who has tools. You can put a plan in place while doing some of these other things you're doing.

Here's what some other members have said or experienced about safety in marriages where their wives were BPD sufferers:

TOOLS: Domestic Violence Against Men

[Matt]

[quote author=livednlearned

A plan would be: I will talk to 3 lawyers and ask for their counsel. I will find the name of a criminal attorney and have that information ready in case I need it. I will learn whether it is legal for me to record my ex during times I fear for her safety, mine, or the kids. I will document everything and back it up. I will find a T to help me through this. If my wife physically hurts me or the children, or threatens me with the same, I will retain an L and do what's best for my kids. I will photocopy all essential documents, and put important papers in a safe, protected place. I will get something comfortable to sleep on so I am rested for this. [/quote]
Yeah, I think these are the sort of things that are mostly in your control, and that are really important right now.

Then if the relationship somehow improves, great, but if it doesn't, you and the kids will probably be safe.

[thefisherman]

I know it is legal for me to record her.  In my state only one participant has to be informed.

I have seen 2 lawyers though it was 2 years ago.

I don't have a criminal lawyer.  It is a decent idea.

[livednlearned]

I know it is legal for me to record her.  In my state only one participant has to be informed.

I have seen 2 lawyers though it was 2 years ago.

I don't have a criminal lawyer.  It is a decent idea.

The most important thing for me, at least for long-term planning, was documenting everything. When you feel the way we do in these relationships, it can be very hard to remember the order of events, and entire episodes get forgotten. Cause and effect is hard to see clearly. There is often a lot of anxiety, worry, and fear, and that fuzzes up our thinking.

If you are at risk of your wife withholding your kids, that documentation will be critically important. Let's hope it doesn't get to worse-case scenario, but if it does, it will be your word against hers, and you will be in much better shape if you have documentation to back up your words.

Documentation also helped me therapeutically, because I can see things now that were opaque to me while I was in the r/s, and the year or so following our separation. I didn't really notice how severe his paranoia was until I saw it documented and collected together.

The lethargy you feel in a time like this can be powerful. If you can, try to focus on one thing at a time so you don't feel defeated by things.