Do They Really Love?

[Truth in Ruin]

My ex BPD girlfriend told me she missed me, and wanted to be with me. Ten days later fell in love with another guy. We were together for 3 years. How is love an ON & OFF switch?. I feel bad for them. they are doomed!, and they dont even know it!. She never really Knew who I was. The worst part; she prob. didnt care!. Im willing to bet she doesnt think about me as she idealizes this man. I know she will either: scare this man away early, or push him away later. I feel bad for her, and him. But. be honest. Do they TRUELY love you, or just love you for themselves.     

[wb1233]

Truth

They do love. But it is a love based on need. The problem is that it's not based on who we are. Often needs go unmet. When their needs are not met, then their feeling that their need "love" was not met then they believe you don't love them. They paint you black. The feeling is now the fact. This is their distorted thinking.

[numenal]

What I've read is that people with BPD operate at an emotional level of a toddler... .  so I would guess it is not adult love they are capable of.

[wb1233]

Think of it this way.

Normal thinking:  facts determine our emotional response

BPD thinking: my emotions determine our facts

[Truth in Ruin]

Good points!

[daintrovert13]

I think they really do love others, based on the definition of love. But, I believe they love selfishly. My ex proposed to another 30 days after our break up, with in a three day span. Selfish Love. Never gave the person time to think. I'm sure she didnt expect anything but a yes from the person. She once texted me something I will never forget. "I'm not here to make anyone else happy but my self". Can't be more straight forward than that.

Her new partner just might stay as long as he allows her to.

[trevjim]

I asked this in another thread, and some people say as on this thread, that it is a love based on need. And i asked what if they bump into someone they 'want' (get butterflys, love at first sight kinda love) and i didnt really get a clear answer

[trouble11]

Trev ... .  my guess is that doesn't really happen with them as long as their needs are being met at the moment.  I see lot of cars I want, but the one I'm driving is working for me right now.  Besides, what makes nons want someone?  We want people because their self compliments our.  (not mirrors, but compliments)  We have things in common.  I think they have to need first and then mirror.  Just guessing here though. 

[trevjim]

Trev ... .  my guess is that doesn't really happen with them as long as their needs are being met at the moment.  I see lot of cars I want, but the one I'm driving is workIng for me right now.  Besides, what makes nons want someone?  We want people because their self compliments our.  (not mirrors, but compliments)  We have things in common.  I think they have to need first and then mirror.  Just guessing here though. 

I get what your saying and it makes sense but I think as a non, if I was in a small town and was in a r/s with plain Jane, she was nice, simple, average looking, and this super hot exciting, fun, intense girl turned up, I would be tempted. which is why in real life I would obviously not get with plain Jane for the sake of having a r/s.

So it seems to me that the majority of BPD after a break up get with the first person to fullfill their needs, at least mine did after me, I see her new partner as 'plain Jane' maybe in wrong but for arguments sake lets say I'm not.

What happens if that super hot intense fun exciting guy turns up? Maybe that's why so many pwBPD cheat.

[cocobell]

This is an interesting one. The person I was involved with seemed to be 'in love' with a fantasy, because when he was really attentive and seeming to want me (very intensely at times) I still felt uncomfortable because it didn't seem like he loved ME, the real person. To him, I was perfect, then worthless, then perfect again - yet I was the same person throughout this process. It certainly seemed to be based around his own internal emotional rollercoaster than any kind of definition of 'love' that I would recognise.

CB

[Truth in Ruin]

TrevJim, of topic but, my BPD gal had good morals. Would not cheat, would not do drugs. Some people are cheaters and some are not. I think if a person that has BPD is on the side of the cheating type, they must cheat even more so than a NON that is a cheating type... .  Im just guessing really. Maybe someone can help me on this LOL

[trevjim]

TrevJim, of topic but, my BPD gal had good morals. Would not cheat, would not do drugs. Some people are cheaters and some are not. I think if a person that has BPD is on the side of the cheating type, they must cheat even more so than a NON that is a cheating type... .  Im just guessing really. Maybe someone can help me on this LOL

Yea i believe you are right, there are lots of factors why people cheat. Not strong enougth to resist temptation, drunken mistakes, lack of attention from their partner. BPD probably does bring it out more.

As far as i know, MY BPDex never cheated, but she would sleep around a couple of times if we split up even for a day or two, when asked why she would respond 'It was nice to feel wanted by someone'

[ennie]

I think this gets into what is your definition of love, as someone else pointed out.  I think there are lots of definitions of love.  For me what is useful is to think, what do I want in romantic or partnership love?  I want the sense of being known over time, and being accepted and loved in areas where I do not love myself, partly so I can learn to love myself.  I also do not want to be worshipped, but understood. 

What I want is not what a BPD person can probably provide.  A BPD person is not interested in understanding others, except to avoid pain, though she can be quite loving--but her interpretations are very skewed and not likely to be other-centric ever.  And when many BPD people have trouble maintaining a constant identity enough to have a coherent impression of their own experience much less a whole other person, how does that stack up to being known over time?  I want someone who can add to what they know of me, so their love for me is more complex over time, so they can help me to see my own self. 

My experience with BPD folk is that they can love very strongly, but cannot be coherent.  I think a more "adult" kind of love relies on the ability to "hold" information through time.  This is why 4 year olds need a custody schedule that changes between parents, because a 4 year old will not be able to hold love for her parent over two weeks... .  and the transitions are then very hard.  But for a 12 year old, two weeks away is not such a big thing. 

When you are grown, you can not see a friend for 2 years and still feel just as fondly of them.  So I think the comparison of BPD love to a toddler love is correct, but mainly because, like a toddler, they are starting all over again each time.

This kind of love may be enough for some of us, just so long as we do not expect the love she felt last week to add up to something more this week. 

[trevjim]

I think this gets into what is your definition of love, as someone else pointed out.  I think there are lots of definitions of love.  For me what is useful is to think, what do I want in romantic or partnership love?  I want the sense of being known over time, and being accepted and loved in areas where I do not love myself, partly so I can learn to love myself.  I also do not want to be worshipped, but understood. 

What I want is not what a BPD person can probably provide.  A BPD person is not interested in understanding others, except to avoid pain, though she can be quite loving--but her interpretations are very skewed and not likely to be other-centric ever.  And when many BPD people have trouble maintaining a constant identity enough to have a coherent impression of their own experience much less a whole other person, how does that stack up to being known over time?  I want someone who can add to what they know of me, so their love for me is more complex over time, so they can help me to see my own self. 

My experience with BPD folk is that they can love very strongly, but cannot be coherent.  I think a more "adult" kind of love relies on the ability to "hold" information through time.  This is why 4 year olds need a custody schedule that changes between parents, because a 4 year old will not be able to hold love for her parent over two weeks... .  and the transitions are then very hard.  But for a 12 year old, two weeks away is not such a big thing. 

When you are grown, you can not see a friend for 2 years and still feel just as fondly of them.  So I think the comparison of BPD love to a toddler love is correct, but mainly because, like a toddler, they are starting all over again each time.

This kind of love may be enough for some of us, just so long as we do not expect the love she felt last week to add up to something more this week. 

I think youve cracked it with this. It would explain how they fall in and move on so quickly

[trouble11]

It's funny what one remembers when the fog clears.  Early on in the idealization phase (we were long distance at the time) I had the TV on, as I often did, for background noise basically.  There was some talk show on that I really wasn't paying attention to.  At one point, one of the guests said and I quote ... .  "we should need people because we love them, not love them because we need them."  Now, mind you, I wasn't really watching this show.  I can't tell you what it was, or who was on it, but those words were like a siren going off.  Shortly after I relayed them to BPD and explained that when we discussed needing each other that's what I meant.  He, of course agreed wholeheartedly, but now I wonder if in his mind he wasn't thinking ... .  NO ... .  I pretty much just NEED you.  BILY (because I love you) actually became one of our texting acronyms.  Just how crazy is that?   I wonder now if the siren wasn't my subconscious saying ... .  Something is wrong here.

[trouble11]

I think this gets into what is your definition of love, as someone else pointed out.  I think there are lots of definitions of love.  For me what is useful is to think, what do I want in romantic or partnership love?  I want the sense of being known over time, and being accepted and loved in areas where I do not love myself, partly so I can learn to love myself.  I also do not want to be worshipped, but understood. 

What I want is not what a BPD person can probably provide.  A BPD person is not interested in understanding others, except to avoid pain, though she can be quite loving--but her interpretations are very skewed and not likely to be other-centric ever.  And when many BPD people have trouble maintaining a constant identity enough to have a coherent impression of their own experience much less a whole other person, how does that stack up to being known over time?  I want someone who can add to what they know of me, so their love for me is more complex over time, so they can help me to see my own self. 

My experience with BPD folk is that they can love very strongly, but cannot be coherent.  I think a more "adult" kind of love relies on the ability to "hold" information through time.  This is why 4 year olds need a custody schedule that changes between parents, because a 4 year old will not be able to hold love for her parent over two weeks... .  and the transitions are then very hard.  But for a 12 year old, two weeks away is not such a big thing. 

When you are grown, you can not see a friend for 2 years and still feel just as fondly of them.  So I think the comparison of BPD love to a toddler love is correct, but mainly because, like a toddler, they are starting all over again each time.

This kind of love may be enough for some of us, just so long as we do not expect the love she felt last week to add up to something more this week. 

Ennie ... .  GREAT post!  Also explains why they are so willing to return to someone that treats them badly.  Maybe to them it's like a spanking, and then it's over. 

[SarahinMA]

My ex would never approach a woman... .  he is too scared of rejection and claims he has nothing to talk about.  It takes a lot of guidance from his best friend (his source then and now) to make it happen.  Only through him as a middle-man, is my ex able to ask girls out... .  AND it is only women that his best friend tells him he should go for.  It's like my ex has no idea who is deemed "desirable".  He has no taste.  Those two have a very odd, co-dependent relationship.

My ex and I did spark, but it was after months of me chasing- he claimed he was too shy (We were friends first).  Then, once he was absolutely certain I was interested, he started chasing me and idealizing me.  It was like he had changed completely!  In fact, when he would send me thoughtful, cute texts, I swore it was someone else.  I remember telling him that.  Looking back, I should have trusted my gut.  He wasn't being himself; I don't know if he has a true self.  He was mirroring others. 

My ex claimed he would "always love me", but that is ridiculous.  He stays as far away from me as possible.  That doesn't sound like any love I want in my life. 

[seeking balance]

Love as a noun - an emotion - absolutely

Love as a verb - actions - not likely when dysregulated

[Bulgakov]

I'm getting ready to run a research/lab study on materialism and people's sense of security. I am going to try to find time to speak with my lab adviser about possible relations b/w BPD and materialism. Could it be that we nons are more like material possessions to a pwBPD? Maybe they do not see it this way, but perhaps they care for us more like a child cares for his security blanket or favorite toy (scary that these things are replaceable in many contexts). In my lab, they are trying to find out if these materialistic ideals help or hurt our sense of security. I think they are leaning towards the harmful side of things, even though we use materialism to attempt to bolster our sense of security. "High Price of Materialism" by Tim Kasser even mentions personality disorders in relation to materialism. The book itself does not focus on PD. I am learning more and more about BPD and I'm considering therapy myself as a co-dependent. I don't know that any of this helps, but it seems like another starting point for understanding some PD behaviors. Any thoughts, or threads I have not found yet?

[Mountaineagle]

My ex BPD girlfriend told me she missed me, and wanted to be with me. Ten days later fell in love with another guy. We were together for 3 years. How is love an ON & OFF switch?. I feel bad for them. they are doomed!, and they dont even know it!. She never really Knew who I was. The worst part; she prob. didnt care!. Im willing to bet she doesnt think about me as she idealizes this man. I know she will either: scare this man away early, or push him away later. I feel bad for her, and him. But. be honest. Do they TRUELY love you, or just love you for themselves.      

I hear your pain and I have asked myself the same question over and over lately. I have come to understand that fear was driving a lot of my ex's reactions and behaviors. She had a terrible reality where she would constantly need reassurance about me staying with her, sometimes in a very unhealthy way, like accusing me of all things about leaving, being unfaithful, looking at others. Being in my own thoughts was also a symptom for her that I was leaving. She must have been so afraid. When she was unfaithful my world broke and my truth was also in ruins. Her explanations was that she needed "closeness". At the time of the affair I was away for months in treatment for depression.  Everything I knew was shattered and it was the beginning of the end of the relationship for my part. In light of my new truth, the discoveries I have made reading posts here, I now see that she was really afraid all the time. Afraid of being alone with herself, and it makes my heart bleed. I can not do anything about it since I am now a trigger of abandonment for her.

Another thing... You know sometimes when you get stuck in thought circles where one painful memory comes after the other and you feel worse and worse. We as "normal" people can break this loop. I saw time and time again that my ex could not do that, and at that time it puzzeled me big time. Now I have learned about the disorder of thoughts that BPD is and a bigger picture is emerging. She was imprisoned by her disorder on a very deep level. Maybe even that the "safest" feeling for her was fear. Being with others relieve them shortly of their hell, but when it returns, well you know what happens then.

This is a thread that I found here about the question you are asking. It is a person with BPD explaining how love works for her. It has a warning on it that it may be triggering so you have to be a little careful.      

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68978.0