I think our therapist is enabling her he still sees her as a victim.

[NotPerfect]

He sees her as a fragile and unstable. He tells me I need to be more delicate. 

I can't be more delicate.  The slightest thing sets her off on a downward spiral and when we fight she takes it too far.

It always ends up looking like my fault.

We have been seeing him for 8 years now and has kept us together.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[briefcase]

Being "delicate" doesn't mean walking on eggshells, or trying to manage her emotions.  She's allowed to feel upset, hurt, angry, etc.  It's not your job to control her emotions (and it can't be done anyways).  Look at the Lessons here, and the various staying tools.  Things like validation, boundaries and communication skills (SET, DEARMAN, etc.) are all ways to better interact with her (being "delicate," if you will). 

Its also a helpful to detach a little bit emotionally from her and the therapist and what he may or may not think about her.

I hope the tools and Lessons here help you out! 

[NotPerfect]

Thank you for the advice.  I have a pretty good handle on compartmentalizing. Maybe not so much on spelling.

I am pretty sure our therapist and her psychiatrist believe her to be BPD based on the fact that her medication regime is what many BPD's take, (Welbutrin, ample xanax and abilify) and they both wholeheartedly endorse her doing the full DBT.  I also am pretty sure she believes she is BPD based on several things she says and Psych background.  She has referred to herself as the waif borderline mother.

However, I think that they are all avoiding the term "Borderline Personality Disorder" for the time being because she is a little unstable and to many people this is viewed as quite a crushing diagnosis.

My wife has a BA in psych and is currently working on her masters.  We jokingly say that I have at least a BA in psych because I have been her sounding board on the subject for the last 10 years.

[NotPerfect]

Our mutual therapist of 6 or 8 years is on board and flexible.

I fear he may be enabling her, however I don't believe it is his intent and I also believe he will read and incorporate methods as needed.

I need reputable resources to provide to him. I am seeing him today at

3:30 est.

I am entirely swamped at work having spent the entire week dealing with sick kids, studying for an exam and obsessively reading about BPD.

I am going to click URGENT because we are flying solo this weekend. (no grandparents)

Please help.

[momtara]

Why is it that people with mental illness study psychiatry?  SO odd.  And some ARE therapists.

Anyway, maybe you could talk to your counselor privately.

[GreenMango]

I would be concerned sharing any paperwork that shows you are on this site right now.  The therapist may inadvertently disclose your presence here to your wife.  Keeping this support private so you can post without worry of whether she's reading is going to help you.  If your appointment is a couples session.

Things I might bring up in conversation is the being more sensitive topic, you could discuss some of the tools here validation, SET etc.

If you were hoping to enlighten him on BPD or your wife I would consider not doing this.  Many therapists don't diagnose for several reasons insurance doesn't cover BPD treatment, the risk of the patient vacating therapy, etc.  Many attend to behaviors.

So discuss the behavior that is having a negative influence.

[almost789]

I wouldnt give a therapist resources from this site to help him better deal with BPD. He is the professional, he should have his own professional resources. He also will probably take it as an insult that you as a lay person would offer him a lay persons support group as a means of resources for him. Just my experience and opinion on physicians. They don't like lay persons giving advice, especially where they are the professional and should have their own professional resources and knowledge of how to use psychiatric skills. Also, if you have to direct him here for advice, I would question his capability to treat BPD successfully. This is a laypersons support group not a professional resource. BPD people really need highly skilled specialists.

[GreenMango]

NP

What's the history of treatment for your wife.  This therapists background etc?

[NotPerfect]

I hear what you are all saying. 

I can ask him to focus on this?  He has always seemed quite reasonable and has read books specific to my wife's wishes.

[almost789]

Oh well it's good he has knowledge of BPD. He thinks you need to be more gentle? You really do have to be with them. You can ask him anything you want, but he may or may not take it kindly.

[Grey Kitty]

First off, I don't know what your therapist is actually doing. Second, even if I did know what your therapist was doing, I still wouldn't know what he was thinking. So I'm just guessing here.

But I do know a few things that happened to me.

First off, you might feel validated or vindicated if the therapist identifies your wife's problems (BPD or others). But it will probably not improve the situation. I know that for my wife, having a label that could be put on her to identify her as ill (or defective, broken, etc.) did no good at all, and in fact just gave her something else to hold a grudge over.

There are many stories on this board of people who upon starting to understand BPD want to tell their partner that they have it, and get them into treatment. Usually senior members caution them not to bring up the topic, because it just seems to make things worse instead of better.

So your therapist may see her as having BPD and just choose not to say anything.

Second... .  there are many different therapists, and some are better than others. Also some form a better relationship with you (or your partner) than others. Don't be afraid to look for a different one if the one you have isn't coming up with anything that helps.

When I was having serious trouble, we tried several. The first one somehow triggered my wife badly. We didn't go back. The second one appeared to both of us as a kinda ineffectual feel-good sort of guy; we didn't feel like we got anything worth what we paid for his time. The third was quite helpful, we went with her for a few months and got a lot of help. Eventually she closed her practice, and we later found a fourth that was helpful.

By this time I was already on this board. In a private session I asked her about BPD, and she said that she would be doing the same kind of treatment whether BPD was involved or not.

Hey... .  did you say you had been seeing this therapist for 6~8 years? If this is regular appointments, I would think you should be seeing result by now if he was any good!

Lastly, I think that briefcase hit on it right on--being "more delicate" is an excellent idea, but it means using tools like validation... .  NOT just doing what she wants or what you are guessing she wants.

[Auspicious]

Seeing an individual therapist for yourself would be a good idea. No matter how you look at it, this is a tough situation for you. You need someone to help you navigate though this.

[NotPerfect]

This is all great advice and I know there are good therapist, bad therapist and then there are the good therapists who are too aloof to listen.  I have been to several up to the age of about 21 when I realized I wasn't sick I just needed to not be a little more humble and think before acted and spoke and I would be ok.

You can look this up on WIKIPEDIA IF YOU LIKE. 

My mother is a therapist and from the age of 5 to 15 was forced to her mentor the notorious Dr Richard Gardner the developer of PAS Parent Alientation Syndrome.  He basically developed this theory that was not published in any peer reviewed journals then hired himself out all over the country  as an expert witness at $2500-$15000 a pop to get parents awarded custody of children during divorces.

After a few years of this racket his theory was debunked and he started getting called back into court and cases were getting overturned. He eventually stopped showing up to court and then... .  

He committed suicide by stabbing himself to death in the chest with a 6" serrated kitchen steak knife repeatedly. 

He was a btch and would clean his hearing aids with a paperclip while he pretended to listen to you and would erase a big pile of 5.25" floppy disks while you sat on his sofa.

So, I know a little bit about therapists.  I can tell he is a thoughtful intelligent concerned individual. I spoke to him today and he told me that he thinks and she thinks that she herself thinks she is borderline. Her father told me today that she recently started to refer to herself as borderline.

Last nite she wanted me to take the baby and a took the baby, but me waving my hand to indicate that she sould leave the room so the baby wouldn't cry was triggering her abandonment short circuit. She spiraled and texted everyone in the family how mean and cruel I was.  Once I got the baby to sleep I went to her and tried to help her not ruminate on wishing she were dead and instead say I wish I were happy. I was happy to find that she was able to hear me.   And after about an hour she went to sleep and went to work and had a good day.

She's taking a mild dose of Abilify and since she started it seems like she can listen to reason a little more.  I know I can't change her. I can only change myself. I know it will not always be that easy.

Today I spoke to my family members, her father our therapist.

[NotPerfect]

NP

What's the history of treatment for your wife.  This therapists background etc?

NP

What's the history of treatment for your wife.  This therapists background etc?

Therapist is cog behavior. Mid 50s . Went to school in the northeast.  Works in an affluent town and looks like Stuart Little. Is politically conservative and out spoken to me about it just to antagonize me.  It is unspoken, but I know he started to help me be more tolerant of differing views in general he always says things with that I’m busting your chops look then clears his throat like Felix Unger.

Her history of treatment is interesting.  Her dad is a pastor and when he and her mom split up.  She went with her mom.  Her mom remarried and at the age of 11 her 16 year old step brother started having sex with her. She tried to kill herself. Her mother being a case worker for social services did the right thing and read her diary.  When her mom found out about the step brother she said tsk tsk you krazy kids stop that.  Of course the 16 year old didn’t stop so after the second suicide attempt she was put in a hospital until her insurance ran out. She was put on anti depressants then and has been ever since.

She seen a psychiatrist ever since then to get her meds. she she had therapy was during undergrad in New York from 17 to 21. I met her at 25 and she was on still on anti-deps. We got married in 2005 and we've been seeing a therapist ever since.

She used to have crazy sex with me like crazy and all the time. Once we got married that pretty much stopped.  She said she felt safe enough to not pretend anymore. I was pretty goddam pissed off about that.

We did a weekend long intensive Imago workshop that saved us from divorce and taught us to about each other’s triggers and unresolved childhood conflicts.

To be honest with you I really don't know that she goes to therapy ever thinking that she is going to get better.  She has gone up and down up and down and has gone down and has been getting the “she’s fragile” pass since we had kids.  Truth of the matter is she tries too hard to be the perfect mother and then loses it on me. She is honestly the most concerned and thoughtful mother I have ever seen, but it’s not sustainable with two kids.

[NotPerfect]

First off, I don't know what your therapist is actually doing. Second, even if I did know what your therapist was doing, I still wouldn't know what he was thinking. So I'm just guessing here.

Truth of the matter is I don't know what they have been working on for the past 8 years. What I gather about their sessions is that she goes in there and talks about her her mother letting her get molested, why didn't her father save her then he says "Thats ~ed up"  then she cries a bunch.

She almost always says it was cathartic.

Is this normal?

[Grey Kitty]

Truth of the matter is I don't know what they have been working on for the past 8 years.

... .  

Is this normal?

Normal? No idea there, and not sure it matters.

Productive? That is a much better question.

But I think I misunderstood. I though your couples therapy had been going on for years. If you weren't seeing results in weeks, going into months, and then years, that would be a red flag. 

If this is her therapy that you are talking about, just let it go unless she comes back from it in a bad enough state that you believe it is making her worse. That is HER problem, not YOUR problem, and when you try to "solve" her problems, nothing good comes of that.

And let me say that I  had a very good experience with Imago couples therapy about a year ago. It was an intensive bit of work, and helped a lot. The mirroring tool is one we just used very well a couple weeks ago.

[NotPerfect]

I'm sorry to bad mouth the imago.  It was a good experience and kept us together the mirroring helped.

The "Are you ready to recieve?" Helped alot.

The other night she was triggered by me waiving her away in an attempt to keep the baby from waking up by the sound of her voice. Once I did that even  "Honey, please go to sleep. You are tired and I have the baby" didn't work. 

Do you think the "Are you ready to recieve?" Would work?  I guess there's only one way to find out.

[Grey Kitty]

I think we miss-communicated. I thought the imago (mirroring) was fantastic, and it did a LOT of good to my marriage.

[NotPerfect]

Yes.  We are agreeing on imago.  it was great.  I was just in a bad mood about therapy when I posted that. 

My SO is way into psych (she talks about it and analyses things constantly) and other things make psych a sore spot for me.  So, I do appreciate it, but when I am under stress I lash out at psych.  Did that make any sense at all?

[Grey Kitty]

That makes plenty of sense to me. When I hear about people who are really into psych, or pick it as a career I have a stock question... .  I want to speak it with compassion instead of sounding snarky... .  but sometimes being snarky is just what I need, so here goes:

Have you ever met an optometrist with 20/20 vision?

[NotPerfect]

Thats hilarious...

I once went to a have nerve testing done and the doctor clearly had a congenital nerve problem.

So he's putting these sensors on me with these fumbly hands.  It was sad and funny at the same time.