Wanting to Be Indifferent - How?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am curious as to some of the ways people have successfully become indifferent in their feelings towards their BPDexs.

Although my feelings are not nearly as intense like the past I still have moments where I am mildly obsessed with the uBPDexgf.

I still look at her fb about once every 10 days.  I actually tried to call her a couple of days ago but her number is disconnected... .  kind of a concern because when she calls at the next recycle attempt it won't go to my call blocker/vm. It looks like she is making a last ditch effort to get back with her ex-husband... .  something which will not work... .  and will point her back to me.

Anyways, my point is why am I even wasting energy and time on this?

I have noticed my part in the 'dance' is that after about 2 weeks of silent treatment I start to miss her a bit and get some withdrawals.

I want to be 100% indifferent concerning her. How do you do it?

[nowwhatz]

I am curious as to some of the ways people have successfully become indifferent in their feelings towards their BPDexs.

Although my feelings are not nearly as intense like the past I still have moments where I am mildly obsessed with the uBPDexgf.

I still look at her fb about once every 10 days.  I actually tried to call her a couple of days ago but her number is disconnected... .  kind of a concern because when she calls at the next recycle attempt it won't go to my call blocker/vm. It looks like she is making a last ditch effort to get back with her ex-husband... .  something which will not work... .  and will point her back to me.

Anyways, my point is why am I even wasting energy and time on this?

I have noticed my part in the 'dance' is that after about 2 weeks of silent treatment I start to miss her a bit and get some withdrawals.

I want to be 100% indifferent concerning her. How do you do it?

[trevjim]

I'm going through the same stage mate, its what us nons go through I guess, after such intensity its hard to let go so quickly. Why do we do things like look at their fb pages, I guess it's curiousity, because we care about them, maybe self torture?

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that they meant so much to us and that wont go away overnight

[Changed4safety]

For me it's self torture.  And that's really unhealthy.  By practicing mindfulness, I have observed that I cannot seem to stay in a peaceful place for long about anything--my mind goes to something that will upset me or make me sad or feel bad about myself.  That's me and my issue. 

I think detaching is unique, it's a sort of grief, like when someone dies.  Something precious HAS died and it needs to be grieved.  It will, I think, just sort of sneak up on you eventually. 

I have made the choice to try to stay friends with my ex, and while it is painful, and yes I know it prolongs the healing process, it's still happening.  What has helped me is the mindfulness and also, when I start to hurt about a good memory, I come on here or I go back to the bad things, and remind myself that I chose my well-being over abuse.  I think that's why I can deal with the friendship--I don't feel abused by the relationship as it is now. 

[nowwhatz]

I'm going through the same stage mate, its what us nons go through I guess, after such intensity its hard to let go so quickly. Why do we do things like look at their fb pages, I guess it's curiousity, because we care about them, maybe self torture?

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that they meant so much to us and that wont go away overnight

I agree. I have been around the block quite a few times with this exgf and the recycle before last stung me really good... .  I didn't forget that so it has been easier this time.  I will say I am not ruminating much and when I do I don't get angry about things she said because she is so obviously crazy.

I will share something I do which helps me a bit... .  not the most intellectual thing to do but just prior to the last recycle I stumbled onto the ID channel... .  Investigation Discovery... .  and started recording and watching their programs... .  most of which are about crazy relationships ending very badly it seems... .  many of the 'characters' have BPD traits.

Watching these trash/crime documentaries has been helpful for me as I ask myself... .  "what if I had married her? maybe that would happen to me... .  "   etc.

[nowwhatz]

For me it's self torture.  And that's really unhealthy.  By practicing mindfulness, I have observed that I cannot seem to ... .  

For me if I look at the fb sometimes it can be self torture and sometimes gratifying.

Here is an example:

In December exgf calls me, we meet, go out. While out she is receiving texts from ex-replacement bf who is at her door and very disappointed. He was supposed to meet her that night to drop off some of her stuff.

She drops him as a fb friend and I am pretty sure gives him silent treatment for next 45 days.

In Jan we 'break up' and she adds ex- replacement bf as fb friend the next day. I am a little hurt but not surprised. But I know he is on to her bs (smarter guy than me).

Today on her fb she has defriended him and several other guys... .  kept 1 guy who is her emotional tampon and has pic of her ex-husband and son on fb banner.  So I am like wow she is all over the place... .  kind of gratifying.

But back to me... .  I am saying to myself why am I concerned with such bs?

So I am still caught up in the 'dance' to a degree and need to exit the dance hall... .  somehow.

[Rose Tiger]

How do people give up an addiction?  How do they give up smoking or drinking?

[nowwhatz]

How do people give up an addiction?  How do they give up smoking or drinking?

Yeah... .  my uBPDex's name is Adriana. My T said I need to go to AA .

[Rose Tiger]

There ya go!  I am so lucky that ex is not FB savvy.  I can go look at his one entry from three years ago where he 'liked' Dunlop tires. 

[trouble11]

Where are the Men in Black when you need em?   How great would that be?  They come in looking extremely hot hold up that shiny red light thing and all this crap is gone.  


Only problem ... .  it could then happen all over again.  

[Rose Tiger]

Look how well it works on a pwBPD. 

We are suppose to replace bad habits with healthy stuff.  Not saying I have that down.  That is another goal. 

[nowwhatz]

Where are the Men in Black when you need em?   How great would that be?  They come in looking extremely hot hold up that shiny red light thing and all this crap is gone.  


Only problem ... .  it could then happen all over again.  

Hahaha. Maybe I need to join one of those brainwashing cults... .  oh wait I am already in one run by Reverand UBPDexgf  

[Kiss Of Kismet]

nowwhatz I feel exactly the same, where I was caught up in that game of looking at her life without me and feeling gratified when things werent working out, but honestly I do want to just be past this part of my life, honestly I do, but I struggle and I know in my heart I would let her back in if she came to me right now, and I suppose that is always the struggle, finding true indifference to them rather than merely learning to cope without them, because if I could fall back into her clutches I know deep down that she still has some power over me.

[GustheDog]

I will share something I do which helps me a bit... .  not the most intellectual thing to do but just prior to the last recycle I stumbled onto the ID channel... .  Investigation Discovery... .  and started recording and watching their programs... .  most of which are about crazy relationships ending very badly it seems... .  many of the 'characters' have BPD traits.

Watching these trash/crime documentaries has been helpful for me as I ask myself... .  "what if I had married her? maybe that would happen to me... .  "   etc.

Ha - That was my ex's favorite channel. Thinking about her strong attraction to these types of shows is the really scary part...

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz I feel exactly the same, where I was caught up in that game of looking at her life without me and feeling gratified when things werent working out, but honestly I do want to just be past this part of my life, honestly I do, but I struggle and I know in my heart I would let her back in if she came to me right now, and I suppose that is always the struggle, finding true indifference to them rather than merely learning to cope without them, because if I could fall back into her clutches I know deep down that she still has some power over me.

KOK you summed it up very well. Mentally we know what is best and don´t want more problems but feel somewhat powerless.  I was asked by a friend yesterday if I would take the exgf back if she tried again. My answer was I hope not.

[nowwhatz]

I will share something I do which helps me a bit... .  not the most intellectual thing to do but just prior to the last recycle I stumbled onto the ID channel... .  Investigation Discovery... .  and started recording and watching their programs... .  most of which are about crazy relationships ending very badly it seems... .  many of the 'characters' have BPD traits.

Watching these trash/crime documentaries has been helpful for me as I ask myself... .  "what if I had married her? maybe that would happen to me... .  "   etc.

Ha - That was my ex's favorite channel. Thinking about her strong attraction to these types of shows is the really scary part...

I like that channel because I see that there is always somebody that has it ´worse´than me and also reminds me of how dysfunctional relatonships can spiral out of control.

[GustheDog]

I like that channel because I see that there is always somebody that has it ´worse´than me and also reminds me of how dysfunctional relatonships can spiral out of control.

No kidding. My ex and I also would occasionally watch some of the more infamous daytime shows, like Springer, Judge Judy, etc. Oh how we marveled at the dyfunction.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Detaching is a slow process for most, and probably much slower when it comes to BPD relationships.  I feel more detached than ever, but I still find myself 'missing' her at times.  I deleted my FB account, and that was one of the best decisions I made concerning ex.  As far as I'm concerned, looking at her FB is just self torture.  Getting rid of that would help you detach.  Remind yourself of the pain.  Focus on the positive in your life at the present moment!  One day at a time.

[seeking balance]

Time, Tears, Therapy & Rebuilding Us.

Rinse & Repeat

[nowwhatz]

Time, Tears, Therapy & Rebuilding Us.

Rinse & Repeat

Not sure if I am holding back something or what but I have not cried once since after this last recycle ended.

Now that she has suddenly gotten back with her exhusband I am having some odd feelings of possible finality (delusional I am sure).

I have been thinking about her a bit today. Just 2 or 3 weeks ago she told me how she was not almost evicted from her apt and how she was going to lose her car. I asked her what she was going to do if she got evicted and she said she would go to her exhusband and cause a scene and force him to move her back in with him because "he is responsible for bringing me to this country!"

A few days later when we 'broke up' I said maybe your ex-husband will take you back but she said that was an impossibility.

I don't know what or how she did to make it happen but I am awestruck by her manipulative skills and it makes me realize how over my head I have been with this woman.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I don't know what or how she did to make it happen but I am awestruck by her manipulative skills and it makes me realize how over my head I have been with this woman.

I agree that their manipulative skills are finely honed, but I have to realize that when I was manipulated, I allowed it to happen to a large degree.  In other words, she only got away with as much as I would let her.  I let my boundaries be torn down.  They are good, but they're not that good!

[seeking balance]

I don't know what or how she did to make it happen but I am awestruck by her manipulative skills and it makes me realize how over my head I have been with this woman.

I agree that their manipulative skills are finely honed, but I have to realize that when I was manipulated, I allowed it to happen to a large degree.  In other words, she only got away with as much as I would let her.  I let my boundaries be torn down.  They are good, but they're not that good!

I am going to challenge your thinking on this bolded part - rephrase to:  How finely honed their survival skills are... .  

Imagine being ruled by emotions - such intense emotions that may or may not be rooted in reality... .  this is what someone with BPD do... .  what we feel as manipulation is survival to them - think about the high suicide rate with pwBPD.

You are 100% correct to focus on self, nons boundaries - why tolerate trampling of boundaries - this is the only thing we can fix as to not end up in this situation again.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I am going to challenge your thinking on this bolded part - rephrase to:  How finely honed their survival skills are... .  

Imagine being ruled by emotions - such intense emotions that may or may not be rooted in reality... .  this is what someone with BPD do... .  what we feel as manipulation is survival to them - think about the high suicide rate with pwBPD.

Seeking Balance, I agree with you, and I understand this. 

I would think, though, that these skills could be worked on by pwBPD through intensive therapy, although we don't see that very often.  I don't want to label them as destined to repeat the same behaviors over and over, and I'm not saying that is what you are doing.

Your comment helps me keep my compassion in check, which is extremely important in my opinion.  Thank you.

[seeking balance]

I am going to challenge your thinking on this bolded part - rephrase to:  How finely honed their survival skills are... .  

Imagine being ruled by emotions - such intense emotions that may or may not be rooted in reality... .  this is what someone with BPD do... .  what we feel as manipulation is survival to them - think about the high suicide rate with pwBPD.

Seeking Balance, I agree with you, and I understand this. 

I would think, though, that these skills could be worked on by pwBPD through intensive therapy, although we don't see that very often.  I don't want to label them as destined to repeat the same behaviors over and over, and I'm not saying that is what you are doing.

these maladaptive coping skills (cutting, cheating, drinking, projection, etc) really are a poor reaction to some sort of emotional pain.  Most of us logically understand cutting releases emotions, but when the behavior is done "to us" ie cheating - we forget it is the same thing really - not about us at all... .  

These maladaptive coping skills are so routinized and have created such deep neurological tracks in the brain that it does take time and a lot of work to "unlearn" these coping tools.  Possible, but takes real work.

Your comment helps me keep my compassion in check, which is extremely important in my opinion.  Thank you.

compassion for yourself is just as important 

Just because this behavior is not about us - doesn't mean it doesn't hurt us intensely.  The recovery from these relationships is not simple and requires us to be sophisticated in balancing our grief with compassion for others - very complex indeed.

[GustheDog]

Not sure if I am holding back something or what but I have not cried once since after this last recycle ended.

Now that she has suddenly gotten back with her exhusband I am having some odd feelings of possible finality (delusional I am sure).

I have been thinking about her a bit today. Just 2 or 3 weeks ago she told me how she was not almost evicted from her apt and how she was going to lose her car. I asked her what she was going to do if she got evicted and she said she would go to her exhusband and cause a scene and force him to move her back in with him because "he is responsible for bringing me to this country!"

A few days later when we 'broke up' I said maybe your ex-husband will take you back but she said that was an impossibility.

I don't know what or how she did to make it happen but I am awestruck by her manipulative skills and it makes me realize how over my head I have been with this woman.

So, basically she's going to move in with her kidnapper?

I've read and understand every post in this thread, and I admit to being a little glib here - but I have just the tiniest bit of trouble understanding how this person could board a plane (train, boat, or car) and move to an entirely separate nation-state, truly believing in her heart of hearts that the decision to do so was not made of her own volition.

Whose fault will it be if she loses her apartment and/or car, nowwhatz?

Whether termed "manipulation" or "survival," I think the lesson is that you now see that her behavior is pathological and dangerous, regardless of its motivation.  That's probably one reason why you haven't been as upset this time - and that's for the best, I'd say.

[nowwhatz]

I don't know what or how she did to make it happen but I am awestruck by her manipulative skills and it makes me realize how over my head I have been with this woman.

I agree that their manipulative skills are finely honed, but I have to realize that when I was manipulated, I allowed it to happen to a large degree.  In other words, she only got away with as much as I would let her.  I let my boundaries be torn down.  They are good, but they're not that good!

I am going to challenge your thinking on this bolded part - rephrase to:  How finely honed their survival skills are... .  

Imagine being ruled by emotions - such intense emotions that may or may not be rooted in reality... .  this is what someone with BPD do... .  what we feel as manipulation is survival to them - think about the high suicide rate with pwBPD.

You are 100% correct to focus on self, nons boundaries - why tolerate trampling of boundaries - this is the only thing we can fix as to not end up in this situation again.

Seeking balance and phoenix.

I get what you guys are saying about the survival skills. Believe me I would want nothing less than my exgf by my side if I was suddenly living in some kind of book of eli/mad max dystopia. Instead of dry good and tuna the doomsday peppers might be better off stocking up on BPD gfs.  - sorry a little dry humor there  

I think the compassion dynamic is one of the cruelest aspects of having a person with BPD in your life. If you have a caring bone in your body you are going to want to feel compassion for such a person but that very compassion is a foil for their survival and causes us damage. It turned my world upside down.

[nowwhatz]

Not sure if I am holding back something or what but I have not cried once since after this last recycle ended.

Now that she has suddenly gotten back with her exhusband I am having some odd feelings of possible finality (delusional I am sure).

I have been thinking about her a bit today. Just 2 or 3 weeks ago she told me how she was not almost evicted from her apt and how she was going to lose her car. I asked her what she was going to do if she got evicted and she said she would go to her exhusband and cause a scene and force him to move her back in with him because "he is responsible for bringing me to this country!"

A few days later when we 'broke up' I said maybe your ex-husband will take you back but she said that was an impossibility.

I don't know what or how she did to make it happen but I am awestruck by her manipulative skills and it makes me realize how over my head I have been with this woman.

So, basically she's going to move in with her kidnapper?

I've read and understand every post in this thread, and I admit to being a little glib here - but I have just the tiniest bit of trouble understanding how this person could board a plane (train, boat, or car) and move to an entirely separate nation-state, truly believing in her heart of hearts that the decision to do so was not made of her own volition.

Whose fault will it be if she loses her apartment and/or car, nowwhatz?

Whether termed "manipulation" or "survival," I think the lesson is that you now see that her behavior is pathological and dangerous, regardless of its motivation.  That's probably one reason why you haven't been as upset this time - and that's for the best, I'd say.

Yeah that is a good way to put it - pathological.

In fact more pathological than I want to even admit... .  I am still in denial about it. But if I told anyone not familiar with BPD what I know nobody would believe me.

Yes I am not as upset this time. I hate to say it but I feel like her disorder dehumanizes her to me in some ways. Not a good feeling.

She is not only moving in with her kidnapper but the person who she says tried to control her for so many years and then cheated on her.

I am no 'better.' I kicked her and her kid out of my house and she says "psychologically abused" her but she was madly in "love" with me only last month.

She is losing her apt and car because she spent every last dime in the casino.

[GustheDog]

Well, I imagine that her behavior towards you *felt* a little dehumanizing too, no?

I don't think of my ex as any less human, but I realized that pretty much every interaction she has had or will have is scripted - preprogrammed by the disorder. 

What would she say to you if you highlighted this to her - that is, reminded her of previously telling you this and now saying she may be moving back in with this guy?

My ex would literally just not say anything when I'd call her out on a contradiction.  She'd just leave the room, house, or, eventually, the relationship.  A few times I even did this with insignificant topics in a very light, non-accusatory manner - just to see if she could connect the dots where the subject matter itself wouldn't trigger a dysregulated reaction.  E.g., "Should we buy maple syrup at the store today because last week you said you loved it on pancakes but yesterday you said it was disgusting?"  Same result.

Am I completely indifferent myself (getting back to the main topic)?  No way.  But I'm a lot closer than I have been in part due to internalizing the fact that I was never important to my ex because of my distinct qualities as an individual (which is what I desire to be "loved" by someone for - for being who I am); I was important, at one time, because I was a warm body - and really very little else.  She's running on a very simple, if tragic, script in perpetuity - without any real independent thoughts of her own or any ability to see people as anything other than good or bad objects to be used by her, if and when she wants, to suit her immediate purposes.

There's absolutely nothing I can do about any of this, and she doesn't even care about me anyway.  Time to stand back and let Sisyphus roll that boulder up the hill on his own, and get the hell out of the way when it rolls back down again - and it will *always* roll back down.

[nowwhatz]

Well, I imagine that her behavior towards you *felt* a little dehumanizing too, no?

I don't think of my ex as any less human, but I realized that pretty much every interaction she has had or will have is scripted - preprogrammed by the disorder.  

What would she say to you if you highlighted this to her - that is, reminded her of previously telling you this and now saying she may be moving back in with this guy?

My ex would literally just not say anything when I'd call her out on a contradiction.  She'd just leave the room, house, or, eventually, the relationship.... .   A few times I even did this with insignificant topics in a very light, non-accusatory manner - just to see if she could connect the dots where the subject matter itself wouldn't trigger a dysregulated reaction.  E.g., "Should we buy maple syrup at the store today because last week you said you loved it on pancakes but yesterday you said it was disgusting?"  Same result.

Am I completely indifferent myself (getting back to the main topic)?  No way.  But I'm a lot closer than I have been in part due to internalizing the fact that I was never important to my ex because of my distinct qualities as an individual (which is what I desire to be "loved" by someone for - for being who I am); I was important, at one time, because I was a warm body - and really very little else.  She's running on a very simple, if tragic, script in perpetuity - without any real independent thoughts of her own or any ability to see people as anything other than good or bad objects to be used by her, if and when she wants, to suit her immediate purposes.

There's absolutely nothing I can do about any of this, and she doesn't even care about me anyway.  Time to stand back and let Sisyphus roll that boulder up the hill on his own, and get the hell out of the way when it rolls back down again - and it will *always* roll back down.

If I called her out on a contradiction my ex would always play the victim... .  "you always have say something bad about me" blah blah.

This latest turn of events is the most bizarre as the ex-husband represents her greatest fears (abandonment and she cannot trust him). I know the guy pretty well and he has been guilted by her something awful. The last time I saw him he was a shadow of his former self... .  it was at that time when I told myself I don't want to end up like that!

I will try to put this out of my mind but I can't get away from the sinking feeling that this is going to end very, very badly.

Getting back to the original subject maybe I am becoming indifferent by objectifying my exBPDgf?

The drama and behavior has reached a level of absurdity that maybe I can no longer relate too.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I, too, realized after some time in the relationship that my ex was operating largely on an internal script.  There were pat phrases and behaviors that she would repeat and act out over and over.  This is part of her survival skills.  It's very sad, really.  It ties in to the lack of a solid self.  They are extraordinary actors.

I still have pain and I still have strong feelings for my ex, but I can relate to the feelings of indifference as well.  A little bit of indifference is not a bad thing, in my opinion.  For me, it represents another phase of the detachment process.  I can still care for her as a human being, and one that had a massive impact on my life, but I can do so from a distance, being aware of the pain she caused me, and I choose not to be a part of that anymore.  Indifference does not have to equal objectification, either.  If I accept that I do not have control over her life choices, I can be somewhat indifferent about the way she lives her life.  It is no longer my business.  But this doesn't mean I don't care.

I still have bouts where I cry.  It happened a bit this weekend.  But the intensity seems to have lessened.  This is not an easy process and it takes what it takes.

Like Seeking Balance said, compassion for ourselves is critical at this juncture.  Take it easy.

[GustheDog]

I will share something I do which helps me a bit... .  not the most intellectual thing to do but just prior to the last recycle I stumbled onto the ID channel... .  Investigation Discovery... .  and started recording and watching their programs... .  most of which are about crazy relationships ending very badly it seems... .  many of the 'characters' have BPD traits.

Watching these trash/crime documentaries has been helpful for me as I ask myself... .  "what if I had married her? maybe that would happen to me... .  "   etc.

Ha - That was my ex's favorite channel. Thinking about her strong attraction to these types of shows is the really scary part...

I like that channel because I see that there is always somebody that has it ´worse´than me and also reminds me of how dysfunctional relatonships can spiral out of control.

Flipped this channel on tonight while cooking dinner - caught a segment about a woman with BPD who kills her husband.  Got a chuckle out of the actors' portrayal of some of the "drama" leading up to the homicide.  The woman is hammered, swaying back and forth, and yelling, "YOU'RE SO CONTROLLING, YOU'RE SO MANIPULATIVE," to the husband whilst intermittently chugging out of a bottle of wine.

Man, we used to watch this stuff TOGETHER!  Never would have thunk it.

[nowwhatz]

I will share something I do which helps me a bit... .  not the most intellectual thing to do but just prior to the last recycle I stumbled onto the ID channel... .  Investigation Discovery... .  and started recording and watching their programs... .  most of which are about crazy relationships ending very badly it seems... .  many of the 'characters' have BPD traits.

Watching these trash/crime documentaries has been helpful for me as I ask myself... .  "what if I had married her? maybe that would happen to me... .  "   etc.

Ha - That was my ex's favorite channel. Thinking about her strong attraction to these types of shows is the really scary part...

I like that channel because I see that there is always somebody that has it ´worse´than me and also reminds me of how dysfunctional relatonships can spiral out of control.

Flipped this channel on tonight while cooking dinner - caught a segment about a woman with BPD who kills her husband.  Got a chuckle out of the actors' portrayal of some of the "drama" leading up to the homicide.  The woman is hammered, swaying back and forth, and yelling, "YOU'RE SO CONTROLLING, YOU'RE SO MANIPULATIVE," to the husband whilst intermittently chugging out of a bottle of wine.

Man, we used to watch this stuff TOGETHER!  Never would have thunk it.

Better for it to be on TV than in my life anymore haha.

Well my exgf got evicted from her apt and moved back in with her "kidnapper" the "controlling" ex-husband.  From what I gather it is not a romantic relationship but a rescue mission to keep her and her college student son off the street. And it is causing him trouble because he is now estranged from his gf who is also his boss at his job.

I feel sorry for the ex-husband (who is coincidentally an old friend of mine from hs) because I think he has been guilted into this situation.

Anyways my experiences with this women are without a doubt the weirdest experiences of my life.

[GustheDog]

And it is causing him trouble because he is now estranged from his gf who is also his boss at his job.

I feel sorry for the ex-husband (who is coincidentally an old friend of mine from hs) because I think he has been guilted into this situation.

Anyways my experiences with this women are without a doubt the weirdest experiences of my life.

Um, yeah.

It's a curious thing to view some of my ex's interactions, both with me and with others in her life, and see what an enormous proportion of it all was her guilting/others enabling.

This may sound insensitive, but I find the learned helplessness behaviors repulsive.  I know I can't change her, and I no longer care to try.  But, damn, stepping back and observing the entire, malignant tapestry that is her way of interacting with others turns my stomach.

Never again.