Porn and past emotional infidelity...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

ok, so its not like i told my bf when we first met (within 3 mos) that I did not like porn, don't want it in my home, just morally do not like it... .  HE knew this from the beginning, and even when he tried to bring a few DVD's into my home (yeah, he moved in after 4 mos of dating, huge  , but I let him do this!)... .  i told him that i don't want this filth in my home, he put them in the trash and all was said and done... .  ff now 3 years later, using the computer HE left a tab opened, so i went to close it and I see an email from another woman who says they want to meet up (this woman and my bf) and have sex and what not, i was furious, i started crying, etc... .  my bf says he did this cuz he was looking for "love" etc and I wasn't giving him what he wanted... .  thats BS! sad part is when I found this email within 5 min all he wanted to do was to have sex with me, like that is supposed to make it better! doesn't he get it? so in time, i forgave him... .  ff 8 mos later, he left another "tab" opened in my computer, and he was visiting a Porn website and he was leaving sexual messages to 3 different ladies, very graphic, very perverted and my bf says: "oh they are from another country and I was just playing around, plus i was a lil' drunk"... .  but he did this to 3 separate women talking about what he wants to do w/their body and how he wants to FXXk them! again, I was pissed i told him thats one reason why i don't like porn... .  he said he was sorry, blah blah... .  and again, I forgave him, ff a few years later... .  now a few weeks ago same thing happens leaves a tab open for Webporn, which is a free website to view porn... .  I hit the roof, and he comes back with "i am a grown man, i don't need anyone telling me what I can and cannot view" and "every guy watches porn"... .  I tell him about how when we 1st met how I didn't find it acceptable in a relationship and don't want it... .  and now he just brushes over it, acts like nothing happened, and I know, he'll just want to have sex in a day or two, like nothing is the matter.

My heart is beating, i feel like my values are being dimished, I feel like he doesn't care about what I am saying. I felt like i gave him too many "free passes".

How do i go about talking with this to him, i was upfront from the start, he is the one sneaking his porn/emotional things from me thru the years.

I guess our values really are not the same, and I refuse to just let this go and act like nothing happened.

Yes, we live together, no kids together, but our morals/values are so different I would guess.

He is UBPD, sometimes acts like a kid, hides things like porn and thinks that this is ok, even when i told him when we first started dating.

Any advice would be great!

[Vindi]

ok, so its not like i told my bf when we first met (within 3 mos) that I did not like porn, don't want it in my home, just morally do not like it... .  HE knew this from the beginning, and even when he tried to bring a few DVD's into my home (yeah, he moved in after 4 mos of dating, huge  , but I let him do this!)... .  i told him that i don't want this filth in my home, he put them in the trash and all was said and done... .  ff now 3 years later, using the computer HE left a tab opened, so i went to close it and I see an email from another woman who says they want to meet up (this woman and my bf) and have sex and what not, i was furious, i started crying, etc... .  my bf says he did this cuz he was looking for "love" etc and I wasn't giving him what he wanted... .  thats BS! sad part is when I found this email within 5 min all he wanted to do was to have sex with me, like that is supposed to make it better! doesn't he get it? so in time, i forgave him... .  ff 8 mos later, he left another "tab" opened in my computer, and he was visiting a Porn website and he was leaving sexual messages to 3 different ladies, very graphic, very perverted and my bf says: "oh they are from another country and I was just playing around, plus i was a lil' drunk"... .  but he did this to 3 separate women talking about what he wants to do w/their body and how he wants to FXXk them! again, I was pissed i told him thats one reason why i don't like porn... .  he said he was sorry, blah blah... .  and again, I forgave him, ff a few years later... .  now a few weeks ago same thing happens leaves a tab open for Webporn, which is a free website to view porn... .  I hit the roof, and he comes back with "i am a grown man, i don't need anyone telling me what I can and cannot view" and "every guy watches porn"... .  I tell him about how when we 1st met how I didn't find it acceptable in a relationship and don't want it... .  and now he just brushes over it, acts like nothing happened, and I know, he'll just want to have sex in a day or two, like nothing is the matter.

My heart is beating, i feel like my values are being dimished, I feel like he doesn't care about what I am saying. I felt like i gave him too many "free passes".

How do i go about talking with this to him, i was upfront from the start, he is the one sneaking his porn/emotional things from me thru the years.

I guess our values really are not the same, and I refuse to just let this go and act like nothing happened.

Yes, we live together, no kids together, but our morals/values are so different I would guess.

He is UBPD, sometimes acts like a kid, hides things like porn and thinks that this is ok, even when i told him when we first started dating.

Any advice would be great!

[benny2]

I wish I knew why they do these things. Mine takes pictures of himself. I have told him I hate that and its immature but he continues to do it and sends them to me! Its like he can't stop. I have a feeling that their are others out there receiving the same pictures. Would'nt it be interesting to compare.

[Not2Crazy]

Since Porn has no real OR imagined expectations that would deflate a male ego it has always been a pet peeve of mine that women claim ignorance and take it personally. Though I and I know most men who have moral convictions struggle with this it is disturbing that men like myself who's appearance is distasteful to women might try to understand that and also see that as of the age of computers our drives have become an open door for $7.95 hookers.

Bet I'm gonna hear about this one and get tossed to the creep curb but what is an ambassador about this terrible disease ? I never was loved I just worked and paid bills and Im a creep?

[daze]

Not2Crazy,

I think it's a matter of personal values and preferences and people being honest about what they do and don't want to live with.  Along with partners respect for each others values. 

I don't condemn any one who likes porn.

Daze

[Vindi]

Either do I , porn is just not for me, many couples it is ok for, just like swinging, smoking, drugs, child porn, molesting... .  its been happing for 1000's of years, I myself just do not like porn, and when I got into the relationship, i told him that, no tricks, no lies just honesty. He (my bf) on the other hand 'changed" and wasn't honest. That is what this topic is about.

and Not2Crazy, its ok that you like porn it works for you, that is ok! and no one is calling you a creep!

Daze, i agree w/you 100%... .  its just not for me! maybe others its ok.

Diane, thanks for your feedback and I hope your H isn't showing pics to others!

[Not2Crazy]

Ok I type a rebuttal that didn't post and before I saw Vindi's next post so I can make a simpler reply. Of course I'm plain embarrassed to be pegged as "liking porn" or if I were pegged "a creep, a wierdo wth am I doing here?" but I just don't haven't had  much luck with women and when I met a promiscuous woman that idealized me I married her and it never mad since because in the end she didn't have the where with all to love me. Having sex with a BPD is about the end all that I could have. I being a guy and having all this emotional insecurity assoc with the abuses I sustained to my ego and self esteem or to my body or whatever and living in our generation with free porn and women willing to create new fantasies an overwhelming temptation. The only bar that I would allow is a religious conviction which I have but was my failing too because it is common to man not to BPD's.

I just felt I should say THAT because I would be a hypocrite to say that's a totally reasonable expectation. The problem is in your case that he wants to act out and I just don't think I could have cheated but I'm not the BPD and my reasonable senses are not compromised and I thought our intimacy was sacred but in reality there was nothing my BPDExw was willing to tell others and was not about to calm my own doubts about my own desirability to her so that I might have conquered my need to look at porn... .  if I can admit that without further decreasing my chances of ever finding another woman to whom I can express my sexual energy. dot dot dot

[Not2Crazy]

BTW I'm trying to find in this array of definitions abbreviations posting rules and icons what does it mean to be an "Ambassador"?

[id-crisis]

BTW I'm trying to find in this array of definitions abbreviations posting rules and icons what does it mean to be an "Ambassador"?

Hi Not2Crazy   I think as well as just being "one of us" the forum Ambassadors welcome new members and generally help direct us to useful posts or lessons and articles when they can. 

[real lady]

ok, so its not like i told my bf when we first met (within 3 mos) that I did not like porn, don't want it in my home, just morally do not like it... .  HE knew this from the beginning, and even when he tried to bring a few DVD's into my home

Vindi... .  It doesn't feel good to be disrespected in your own home... .  I understand. He not only tried, but sounds like he succeeded but then "threw them away" as a "show"... .  anyone who will disrespect you initially may not be the best candidate to trust for further "virtuous" behavior.

ff now 3 years later, using the computer HE left a tab opened, so i went to close it and I see an email from another woman who says they want to meet up (this woman and my bf) and have sex and what not, i was furious, i started crying, etc... .  

   I am so sorry; how so hurtful. I would have reacted the same way IF he had never shown any behavior of being unfaithful (I even consider "porn" an act of unfaithfulness)

my bf says he did this cuz he was looking for "love" etc and I wasn't giving him what he wanted... .  thats BS.

That's the TYPICAL BPD "battlecry"... .  I did this because YOU MADE ME DO IT. He IS responsible for his behavior. I am so sorry that he did this and allowed this to happen to you.

sad part is when I found this email within 5 min all he wanted to do was to have sex with me, like that is supposed to make it better. doesn't he get it? so in time, i forgave him... .  

Maybe he was "using" the cyber connection for arousal, OVER stimulation, maybe when you were not home as well... .  

ff 8 mos later, he left another "tab" opened in my computer, and he was visiting a Porn website and he was leaving sexual messages to 3 different ladies, very graphic, very perverted and my bf says: "oh they are from another country and I was just playing around, plus i was a lil' drunk"... .  

There is NO excuse for this, not even drinking, right?

I was pissed i told him thats one reason why i don't like porn... .  he said he was sorry, blah blah... .  and again, I forgave him,

Boundaries that we SET FOR OURSELVES of behaviors from others that WE WILL NOT TOLERATE could help with this. Forgiving him seems to just give him the "green light" to do more... .  BPDs have NO empathy and don't FEEL our pain over what they have done to us. We are left to VALIDATE our own feelings and your feelings are REAL and reflect your values and HIS CONTINUED disrespect toward you in your own home.

ff a few years later... .  now a few weeks ago same thing happens leaves a tab open for Webporn, which is a free website to view porn... .  I hit the roof, and he comes back with "i am a grown man, i don't need anyone telling me what I can and cannot view" and "every guy watches porn"... .  

That's true but if you and he had an AGREEMENT before he moved in, you could have responded "YES, they may do that, IN THEIR OWN HOMES but it won't continue in mine". Boundary.

I tell him about how when we 1st met how I didn't find it acceptable in a relationship and don't want it... .  and now he just brushes over it, acts like nothing happened, and I know, he'll just want to have sex in a day or two, like nothing is the matter.

Until there is a REAL and DEEP CONSEQUENCE (like kicking him OUT), he is NOT likely to discontinue the pleasurable behavior that you are against. It is a very hurtful situation for you and he may feel that "he has it made", he has acts like "nothing is wrong with it and you can't tell him what to do"... .  YOU CAN tell him "NO MORE" and/or "GOODBYE"... .  these are things that YOU CAN DO.

My heart is beating, i feel like my values are being dimished, I feel like he doesn't care about what I am saying. I felt like i gave him too many "free passes".

You seem to be DISRESPECTED... .  I am hearing that YOU STILL HAVE YOUR VALUES but he is discounting them and disrespecting YOU in your home. You have given him the "ok" by not setting solid boundaries and CONSEQUENCES to his behavior... .  

How do i go about talking with this to him, i was upfront from the start, he is the one sneaking his porn/emotional things from me thru the years.

When I was dealing with my EX PD h (son's father), I realized that "I could NOT talk" with him because he had already discounted MY FEELINGS... .  why would he listen to what I had to say? I didn't bother. I would suggest that you ask yourself "WHAT behavior are you expecting from him that he has NOT shown capable of performing in the past 3 years? Respect for you and your values and your home? Our expectations can keep us in abusive relationships when "letting go" and detaching from THOSE WHO DISRESPECT, ABUSE and USE us (even if they are "mentally ill" and we "feel sorry" for them... .  he is responsible for his behavior and YOU have the RIGHT to NOT be abused, right?)

I guess our values really are not the same, and I refuse to just let this go and act like nothing happened.

What do you think that you CAN and are willing to do about your values and your home? You cannot control him but YOU CAN control yourself.

Yes, we live together, no kids together, but our morals/values are so different I would guess.

I would say it is MUCH MORE than your values being different, he is DISRESPECTFUL of YOU and YOUR VALUES in YOUR HOME. If he had different values but RESPECTED you, would there be ANY problem with this at all? I would guess that there would not be. HE IS DISRESPECTFUL and ADDICTED to PORN and seems to NOT CARE what you think about it.

He is UBPD, sometimes acts like a kid, hides things like porn and thinks that this is ok, even when i told him when we first started dating.

Yes, he knows this, does he seem to CARE what you feel? PWBPD have NO empathy, do not seem to WANT to know what we feel or why and NEVER want to "be wrong or bad" about their addictions. My soon to be ex uBPDso is addicted to gaming... .  12 hrs/day. I say NOTHING... .  it is HIS home... .  HE can do what HE WANTS and when I leave, he will be SORRY and I will be FREE... .  until then, I live my life and he lives his... .  if it were MY home, he would be GONE... .  gone to counseling and end of relationship and if he wanted to remain in my home, he would have CONSTANT mental health support; individual, group counseling and updates WITH ME... .  I don't see it happening but this is the example of MY boundaries and what I am willing and NOT WILLING to live with... .  

Any advice would be great.

I hope my advice "is great"... .   and I hope that you realize that you are allowing a MENTALLY ILL PORN ADDICTED MAN whom you have had relationship with to RUN YOUR HOUSEHOLD and TELL YOU HOW HE IS GOING TO LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE... .  we need to SEE THE TRUTH of WHAT IS in order to END ABUSE.

Wishing you WELL    You are worth it. <3

[Vindi]

thanks real lady for the feedback and advice, now to put this to the test and tt my bf about my new boudaries and what I will and will not put up with. And most importantly the disrespect and lies in the past. See with him, I truly think the porn leads to "much more" esp when I found the emails in the past, they all had to do with sex and him wanting to have sex with these people, yes, he may not have "known" these people, but for him to write that he want to FxxK them and have the ladies do "things" to him, etc, it was pretty gross for me to read, yes, it may have been a fantasy to him, but see what this porn does to his mind, he takes it to the next level. And I know when I first caught him with the email to the gal he was supposed to meet up with... .  yes, he wanted sex with me within minutes, what just to make all the pain of his actions go away, and act like he still loved me and only wanted me? I just don't get how he could even think that, to have sex... with me... .  , right after I find an email about an upcoming sexcapade. I don't get it!

I feel like i am on the minority when talking about Porn, but when these type of actions happen, I have to stay true to me, yes, I know alot of guys like porn, and there are a very few who could care less about it. I just knew getting into this relationship what I wanted and now I feel lied to. So yes, we will have the "talk" later and see what comes of it. I will keep you posted!

[real lady]

thanks real lady for the feedback and advice, now to put this to the test and tt my bf about my new boundaries and what I will and will not put up with.

Be careful... .  they do not take "others telling them what to do" very easily. TELLING YOURSELF your boundaries and WHEN he crosses them, you can then respond in a HEALTHY way and quickly state "When you do that, I will do this"... .  I find that the LESS TALK to a pwBPD, the better... .  they dysregulate over our facial expressions and body language, at least, my does, constantly. 

yes, he wanted sex with me within minutes, what just to make all the pain of his actions go away, and act like he still loved me and only wanted me? I just don't get how he could even think that, to have sex... with me... .  , right after I find an email about an upcoming sexcapade. I don't get it.

It sounds like HE IS NOT THINKING about what YOU want at all does it... .  It sounds like he is trying to get YOU interested in the porn too... .  imho.

So yes, we will have the "talk" later and see what comes of it. I will keep you posted.

Be safe. I have "had the talk" with my pwBPD and to avoid "starting a fight" (which he always accuses me of doing) I present it as PROBLEM SOLVING this issue and letting him know what I think that I CAN and am willing to do to help it... .  If he were NOT BPD, I would even ask him "what do YOU think that YOU can and are willing to do to make our relationship work?"... .  I don't see that going any place good with a pw BPD.

[almost789]

Real Lady is right about not telling them what they can and can't do. See he already mentioned you can't tell him what to do. I would just tell him it hurts your feelings. And probably seek counseling. Otherwise, it's really a no win situation. I personally don't have a problem with occasssional viewing, but I used to so I can see where you are coming from. The big problem is with these women he's making plans to meet up with secretly. Also, porn can lead to addiction. Not sure if he's addicted or not. If it effects your marriage or his work or life it could be addictions. It's not uncommon in BPD at all. It struck me weird that he wants sex with you right after you confront him on it. Here is what I think that is. He wants to blame you. He knows if he tries to get sex from you just minutes after you've confronted him on this, you are obviosly not going to give him sex. So, he can say "see you won't give me what I want" and he then can blow his problem off on you. I think you need to get to couples couseling for at least this issue. Addictions to this are very bad.

[Vindi]

i tt him about the situation and how I feel about the porn... .  he came back and said, "fine, if you want me to stop watching it I will, i'll get rid off all the porn in the house, if that will make you happy"... .  I guess, i can feel ok with this, will it happen? time will tell, I don't want to be a police porn patrol around him, i want to believe him, its esp. hard after the years that have gone by and he still secretly kept this hidden life, even after when we first met how I told him I don't like it and don't want to be with someone who uses it.

I guess the same goes for what you want and don't want in a relationship, whether its drugs, alcohol, family time, hobby time, etc... .  wants and needs. So for now, we are on the same page. Again, i'll have to see how this pans out and if he is ok w/the decision. Again, I don't want to change him, I thought he was who he was when we first started dating... .  then he changed and hid thing from me for years... .  I just want to take by my originial standing of what I do and don't want. He has choices too, he can leave if he doesn't like life without porn and I am ok with that.

[hithere]

I don't think watching porn is a big deal... .  

I think cheating is!

You need to figure out what your deal-breakers are.

I personally could care less if my SO watches porn, as long as our relationship is healthy.

If someone is cheating then that would be an absolute deal-breaker on its own.

[almost789]

Oh, good! Thats quite different from the other response of I am an grown man you can't tell me what to do response. I agree, if it is a deal breaker for you, all you can do is tell him to stop or leave I suppose. I know people who watch it and it's not a big deal, I also know people who are addicted to it and this is not a good situation. It's very sick. But didn't you say you've already asked for this to stop and still continued to find it? and emails? Just be aware... .  

[Vindi]

yes, in the past i found emails to another girl and found him posting on a porn website to 3 women... .  this was years ago, not that it makes any difference. Today in the here and now, he said he would willingly stop. And yes, I know alot of people who enjoy porn together and some women who do not tolerate it and even some men who do not have any interest in porn. So yes, its a tough topic, but the important thing to me is yes, it is a dealbreaker, for anyone else into the porn (who i am not in a relationship with), that is their issue, not mine. Me & him have alot of history, and I guess he didn't think porn was going to bother me "that much"... .  now that he knows, he willingly said he is all set with it, doesn't need or want it, I guess, I had to state my facts about when we 1st met how I didn't want it in my life and I was looking for the same with the person I am involved with. Now he knows, and yes, time will tell. I will know in time if things are going to work or not. At least I held my ground and am being stronger with my boundaries and speaking the truth and saying what I want and don't want. I feel good about that.

[almost789]

Good for you. I have been on both sides of this fence. Many years ago I personally had a major problem with it. I did demand it to stop, even though it was minimal. Id find old VCR tapes hidden in the closet and things like that... ... .  well I had little kids in the house and we were regular church goers back then and it totally appauled me and I was disgusted and I told him I thought we we Christian people!what are you doing with this garbage? I told him the same as you. Told him he could chose me or porn, I didnt want this a part of our life. I never found another tape again. He said he got it from guys at work. But my attitude is different today. I dont think its a big deal... unless it gets out of hand. The internet wasnt big back then like it is now. Many men are getting addicted to it. I mean real addiction, like a drug. And you cant just tell an addict to stop doesnt work that way.Sex addiction is actually and intimacy disorder, what they seek is intimacy, not sex.

[slimmiller]

I think the whole issue of porn is indicative of a deeper problem. A man is a man and most of us find the female body attractive, even if just to look at but then again, that can go to extremes. (I mean face it ladies, if we had no desire to look and or be conscious of our desires to reproduce, in animal terms, how boring would that be?) So I am with not2crazy, by and large its not destructive. It is an art form to some degree if tasteful. Only question is, what is tasteful

However as stated in the original post, he knew the boundaries and chose to break them. The 'you made me do it' comment is NOT taking responsibility. You did NOT make him do it. He chose to, probably thinking he wont get caught.

Hope he is willing to reflect and better himself for the sake of the relationship

[almost789]

Becareful saying its not destructive. Maybe its not destructive to you, however, to the addict it is most definitley destructive.

[GreenTea]

Vindi,

I hope I'm not stealing your thread. I was so close to posting yesterday for a similar reason. My uBPDh has had similar issues although I thought maybe they had ended. I too am sick of the dishonesty. Seriously, a tube of lube naturally evaporates? And to think that I actually fell for that years ago. I've been yelled at when I've snipped videotapes, broke DVDs, recycled "mags." I don't want it in our house either. He too says all guys do it.

Yesterday, my 5D and I were in the room beside him coloring. He was quiet, and I just got that "feeling." Quietly, I pushed the door open (it wasn't even shut just ajar), and found him with his jeans around his ankles frantically trying to click out of a site. I had no idea how to react. I stiffened and turned around. He's desperately apologizing, trying to get me to understand that he just wanted to get "rid of it." I was furious to begin with for catching him yet again (his excuse in previous times was that he wanted to get primed for us later).  BUT... .  what would have happened if that would have been our DAUGHTER? He kept saying how it was a stupid, foolish thing to do. I actually felt sorry for him.   He was in the NEXT ROOM in the afternoon! Is this normal?

The thing is for the 1st 10 years of our marriage he has always pulled out when we were intimate even when I was on the pill. It had always bothered me, but he was my first and only so I never really knew any different, and who in the world do you talk to somebody about that with? When I became pregnant (I refused to take the pill anymore since I desperately wanted kids--he did not) through an act of God, I finally experienced what the "real thing" was and didn't want anything more. That lasted until after a few months after our daughter's birth. True intimacy as far as cuddling after and everything that you see in movies has never been a part of us, although I long for it. I've been told by a counselor that porn would be a reason for this. He gratifies himself; therefore, that's all he sees sex as: self-gratification.

Our marriage is shaky as is. I should probably just draw the line and say if I see it again, we're through. The thing that really maddens me is that he was doing it in broad daylight when our daughter and I were in the next room. WHAT is that all about? 

[Not2Crazy]

I have to go quick but I wanted to say to both of you that I was trying to say that its gotten increasingly harder for men to understand their women disgust to have the kind of trust in our women to help them deal with it. I'm having trouble even explaining it in first person because the whole issue for normal relationships is the desire to share intimately and yet it is selfish too. I was hoping to help you talk it out but if you think rigidly about it like the time of day or the degree to which it is practiced is a personal attack ... .  ie a test of boundaries I'd say no its just starts and snowballs.

My exwife was rigid and has BPD and it was just one of all the issues she was an authority of. You know that Christianity is "you are forgiven now go and sin nomore" and Psychology is replace it with something else and "where is they in the spectrum? I'm saying "honey when you need that share it with me" sorta. but for sure privately like not even here.

That's where any man's ego can't take it.