I let her speak to me, more confused about my feelings than ever now

[Darknightx13]

For those who have popped into my other thread about the breaking of no contact and those who haven't alike, long story short, she came by my apartment, and like a cheap suit I folded and let her come in to talk.

She said a great deal of things to me that were things I wished she would have said months ago.  She wrote a 5 page letter to my mother about trying to clear the air with her, something that had become the symbol for our relationship falling apart because she accused my mother of things that weren't based on fact, but her feelings and fear that I would abandon her.  She admitted that she took me for granted a lot and should have done more for me and with me to have a more balanced relationship and so that it wasn't always be taking care of her.  She said that when she left she was in a really bad place emotionally and self-esteem wise and that she's been spending the last 4 months working on herself and becoming a stronger person who realizes that she's "worth something".  She told me that she continues to go to therapy although her therapy is not based on any diagnosis of BPD.  We have never formally talked about Borderline Personality Disorder.

She told me that she is willing to do whatever it takes to bring us back together because she feels like giving up on our relationship and moving out was the worst mistake she's ever made.

I am filled with such conflict now.  I had jumped quickly into another "relationship" with a girl that I genuinely like, however I have not developed feelings of love for at this point.  I know that I still love my ex and I've spent so much time wishing against what I *think* to be impossible odds that somehow we can be together but most of the time the odds and issues seem truly insurmountable.  I am very worried about the reaction that I would get from my family and some of the my few close friends were I to go down this road again.  But then I allow her into my apartment, and more importantly my head, and I'm a mess of a emotion not know what I want or how to get what I want.  I think I'm ending things with the new girl regardless and that sucks because I think if my ex wasn't in the picture I could continue at least exploring a new and seemingly potentially healthy relationship.  And yet I find myself tempted enough by my ex to know that I'm not really ready to be with someone new even if I don't end up with her.

I said to my ex over and over during the course of her 7+ hours in my home that I can't be wrong if I choose to get back together with her and that despite what she's saying and despite how she looks (incredible) and how much I want to believe that she's changing that the best indicator of the future is the past and it's really hard to pronounce "I've changed" in such a short period of time.

I really don't know what I'm going to do.

[strungalong]

Aw man, sounds like a nightmare of mine. My BPDex has done some pretty terrible things over the last couple months. And I'm very angry at her for it. She's even started dating another guy. But if she came to my doorstep with something like that, I don't know what I would do.

The rational part of our brains say NO! But we all know that sometimes that's not loud enough. Just keep in mind that she may be recycling. Do you really think she will actually change? Only you can answer that question, as you are the only one of us who actually knows her.

Is this the first time you've broken up? If so, I would give thought to the idea of you guys maybe giving it another go. But if this isn't the first time, I would say emphatically no.

[Darknightx13]

Is this the first time you've broken up? If so, I would give thought to the idea of you guys maybe giving it another go. But if this isn't the first time, I would say emphatically no.

Not the first time.  We were together for the better part of 9.5 years, though.  Got engaged in Fall of 2011, but 2012 was a terrible year where our engagement and relationship fell apart.  In 2009 we had a particularly bad breakup, but had been together rather consistently for the ensuing almost 3 years.

[sunrising]

Darkknight,

No one can tell you how to handle this.   I know because I was in a similar situation last week and, as weak as it sounds, just wanted someone else to TELL me what to do.  But we're responsible adults and must make our own decisions.  

One thing I would encourage though, and it helped me tremendously when I forced myself to do it last week, is to NOT lend your ex's words too much credence.  My ex was saying EXACTLY what I WANTED to hear.   Unfortunately, that doesn't make her words a lasting truth.  :)id she believe what she was saying when she said it?  I think so. Does that mean she's overcome her challenges and is capable of a healthy, mature relationship?  NO.  Words are useful and sometimes feel very good, but:

Is it reasonable to expect that your ex's ACTIONS, which are infinitely more important, will have changed in a manner that will make them acceptable to you?  

The answer to that question is probably more important than any analysis of her words while she's likely on her best behavior.

[Surnia]

Darknightx13

You are in a difficult situation! I would be conflicted too.

All I can say: Take your time to explore about what happened.

Perhaps you could read this article: US: "Relationship Recycling" - What is it?.

"Clinging to words" came in my mind. Some of us are very focused on words. It is tempting to believe her words. It could be quite possible it would not last long if you are getting together again.

Do you have a T? If so I would make a appointement with him/her.

[nina125]

I was in your shoes about 6 years ago. Our experiences are not the same and I can't tell you what to do, but here is how things turned out for me.

My ex broke our engagement out of the blue when he slept with his subordinate at work. Although I had no proof, I knew about it because he had been idealizing her a few months prior. He denied it and kept doing the push-pull dance with me till I went NC. Once I went NC, he panicked and tried to reel me back. I started hanging out with my BF(now H) around that time and although I had a great time with him, I felt like something was not quite right because I didn't feel the same kind of intense emotions I felt with my ex. There were no sparks or intense passion, just a comfortable lull but I really liked my husband because he had a kindness & gentleness in him that I had never seen before. All I knew at that point was I never wanted to get back with my ex because I just wanted to get off the crazy rollercoaster, So I decided to stick it out with my H and see where it took us.

When my ex tried another recycle attempt with me, I told him that I was not getting back together with him and he just kept begging and pleading. Finally he asked me if it was because I was seeing someone else and I said yes hoping it would shut him up because he was brawling like a little kid at this point. My ex then declared that his love for me was so great that he would wait no matter how long it took till I was done with my now H, so we could be together again because he has never felt so much love for anyone ever before  

A couple of weeks later, I noticed a lot of our common friends were unfriending me on Facebook and a friend of ours messaged me asking me what was going on, because she had a hard time believing that someone as nice as me would do something so terrible. At this point I was really confused and asked her to explain. It turns out that my exBPD had gone around telling everyone that I had left him for someone else, completely omitting the part that he was sleeping with someone else while trying to recycle me at the same time.

6 years later:

My husband & I have been married for 4 years now, and I can tell you with certainty that it was the best decision I have ever made. My husband does not idealize me and treat me like a goddess one minute and trash the very next minute. He treats me with dignity & respect no matter how angry/sad/tired he is. He never tells me that I need to be xyz in order to make him happy. He is happy in his own accord and does not need me to make him happy. My house is finally a safe and warm sanctuary where I never have to stress about getting raged at. I never have to worry about doing/saying stuff that will trigger a rage. I have never been belittled or shamed when I do something that my husband does not agree. Everyday is a good day at my home.

On the other hand, my exBPD married to the next person he started sleeping with just a couple of months later. I guess his love for me was not that great after all  

[sunrising]

Nina125- Thank you for sharing your story.  Everyone in our position should read it as an inspiration.  We all spend a lot of time on here thinking we've "lost the love of our life".   Your story, which makes all the sense in the world, is evidence that getting out of an unhealthy relationship is the way to FIND the love of a lifetime.  It sounds like you've found a wonderful partner and I'm willing to bet your s/o has done the same.  Good for both of you!... .  

[Darknightx13]

Is it reasonable to expect that your ex's ACTIONS, which are infinitely more important, will have changed in a manner that will make them acceptable to you?  

The answer to that question is probably more important than any analysis of her words while she's likely on her best behavior.

You are 100% right and I am 100% cognizant of this but I have no idea how (or IF it's even possible) to determine whether or not her actions will follow her words.  If we did get back together (or "recycle" being able to determine this might not be so easy because honestly I'd expect there would be a temporary "honeymoon" phase and even if not, it takes time to get a true sense of a person's true behavior and requires life to throw curveballs to test how she will respond.  Honestly, one of my biggest reservations with every going back with her, other than the personal hurt I could set myself up for, is hurting my relationships or not not having the support of my family and friends.  The conflict I feel is so heavy it's almost tangible.  I keep waiting for some deity to just hand me answers, which I know isn't going to happen.

[nina125]

sunrising, I know things seem really crappy right now. But as cliche as it sounds, Time Heals. It truly does get better with time.

Fine Print: True healing only comes when, we as nons, realize that we are just as messed up as our exBPDs, and we need to work on ourselves just as much as they do.

In my case, I had severe abandonment issues which got me addicted to the euphoric highs I got when my ex would idealize me after a rage (or sometimes recycle) session. I had deluded myself into thinking "No matter how tough things get, here is one terrific guy who would never abandon me". It never occurred to me that these episodes were manufactured and things really didnt have to be this way. I was emulating what I saw growing up in a dysfunctional family and it was purely by luck that I discovered that it is not "normal" at all. Infact I was searching for answers to my ex's behavior where I stumbled upon this website. I spent a lot of time reading through every thread I could find, and finally one day a lightbulb went off in my head and I literally said out loud - "ohai, this sounds more like my own family than my exBPD".

It took me a long time to learn that love is not always the fireworks that dazzle the night sky, on most days it is as simple as sitting by a warm fire on a cold night.

I think it is stretching to call a 4 year marriage a success by any means, but I think it is successful in the sense that I have to put a lot less work & shed way less tears to hold my current marriage together.

[sunrising]

Is it reasonable to expect that your ex's ACTIONS, which are infinitely more important, will have changed in a manner that will make them acceptable to you?  

The answer to that question is probably more important than any analysis of her words while she's likely on her best behavior.

You are 100% right and I am 100% cognizant of this but I have no idea how (or IF it's even possible) to determine whether or not her actions will follow her words.  If we did get back together (or "recycle" being able to determine this might not be so easy because honestly I'd expect there would be a temporary "honeymoon" phase and even if not, it takes time to get a true sense of a person's true behavior and requires life to throw curveballs to test how she will respond.  Honestly, one of my biggest reservations with every going back with her, other than the personal hurt I could set myself up for, is hurting my relationships or not not having the support of my family and friends.  The conflict I feel is so heavy it's almost tangible.  I keep waiting for some deity to just hand me answers, which I know isn't going to happen.

I can only tell you how I've chosen to handle it and why: I have read here (and several other places) and also learned from my therapist that pwBPD can fairly easily show their "best behavior" in an attempt to recycle someone or otherwise meet their needs temporarily. You are probably safe in your assumption that there would be another honeymoon/ idealization phase.

What I've yet to read/ hear ANYwhere is that a pwBPD just mysteriously change their behavior over night.  In fact, what I've read, time and time again, is that, even with  therapy, it takes a tremendous commitment from the pwBPD and YEARS for them to learn to manage their emotions in a manner which allows them to have a healthy, intimate adult relationship.  Believe me, I tried to find another answer which suggested "miracles can happen".  I haven't found one yet.  It would seem that if we believe their words and put any faith in the idea they've somehow just "gotten better", we are believing in miracles which just don't happen.  

[seeking balance]

She said a great deal of things to me that were things I wished she would have said months ago.  She wrote a 5 page letter to my mother about trying to clear the air with her, something that had become the symbol for our relationship falling apart because she accused my mother of things that weren't based on fact, but her feelings and fear that I would abandon her.  She admitted that she took me for granted a lot and should have done more for me and with me to have a more balanced relationship and so that it wasn't always be taking care of her.  She said that when she left she was in a really bad place emotionally and self-esteem wise and that she's been spending the last 4 months working on herself and becoming a stronger person who realizes that she's "worth something".  She told me that she continues to go to therapy although her therapy is not based on any diagnosis of BPD.  We have never formally talked about Borderline Personality Disorder.

She told me that she is willing to do whatever it takes to bring us back together because she feels like giving up on our relationship and moving out was the worst mistake she's ever made.

ok - this is all great and I am sure she means it. With time actions/words will show themselves.

That said, what kind of work have you done on YOU to even consider being in a relationship with a woman you think has BPD traits?  Are you actively practicing boundaries, communication tools etc?

If not, how can you even consider being the type of partner she would need?

I am filled with such conflict now. 

why, honestly, what has changed?

I had jumped quickly into another "relationship" with a girl that I genuinely like, however I have not developed feelings of love for at this point.  I know that I still love my ex and I've spent so much time wishing against what I *think* to be impossible odds that somehow we can be together but most of the time the odds and issues seem truly insurmountable.  I am very worried about the reaction that I would get from my family and some of the my few close friends were I to go down this road again.  But then I allow her into my apartment, and more importantly my head, and I'm a mess of a emotion not know what I want or how to get what I want.  I think I'm ending things with the new girl regardless and that sucks because I think if my ex wasn't in the picture I could continue at least exploring a new and seemingly potentially healthy relationship.  And yet I find myself tempted enough by my ex to know that I'm not really ready to be with someone new even if I don't end up with her.

this girl, unfortunately for her - was a band-aid for you.  You are not in a place emotionally to be with anyone, wouldn't you say?  Funny thing, when our exes do this we blast them - but it is pretty easy to put a band-aid on with someone else.  The thing is, now you know better - so, you get to choose to do better.

I said to my ex over and over during the course of her 7+ hours in my home that I can't be wrong if I choose to get back together with her and that despite what she's saying and despite how she looks (incredible) and how much I want to believe that she's changing that the best indicator of the future is the past and it's really hard to pronounce "I've changed" in such a short period of time.

I really don't know what I'm going to do.

There are no guarantees in life - if you do not have the emotional capacity to maintain your own balance with her than you are only going to hurt yourself.

Pretty much it looks like you are at a crossroads here wouldn't you say?

The choice is work on you or not - your ex or the new girl are really not the issue once this is all broken down.

Good luck!

SB

[Darknightx13]

SB,

I most definitely do feel like I'm at a very monumental crossroads.  I am quite literally stricken with fear of making "wrong" choices.  In a lot of ways it's one of my defining personality traits and, yes, I am aware that this is not a healthy thing.  Even as I continue to write on these boards and try to find advice, comfort, and/or answers, I am constantly battling myself as to what's really going on with her.  Is it actually BPD?  Is it some other personality disorder or mental disorder or a hybrid of a number of things.  Then I try to look at me and rationally and intellectually I know and recognize things, patterns of unhealthy behavior, etc., and I discuss these things with my T all of the time.

The trouble is that I never seem to draw any conclusions that I feel comfortable with.  I always worry that there will some comeuppance or karma that will damn me for making a poor decision.  I don't mean this in a religious sense, I'm just talking in terms of constantly feeling damned if I do and damned if I don't.  I agree that I probably got into something else way too quickly, but even in this short amount of time I'm experiencing things that I *THINK* are healthy qualities in a relationship.  But then I ask myself to dig down and try to remember if things were so different when I first got together with my ex.  And then I think, well even if they were, it could have been mirroring or idealization.  Then I think to myself, well how do I know that I'm not currently dating another person who is doing the same thing because I have no point of reference to know any better.

I think the sad truth of it all is that I do have a great deal of my own "issues".  I was definitely co-dependent in my relationship with my ex and I don't think I'm fully okay now, so in that sense all and of itself I probably shouldn't be with anyone let alone her.  The same can be said for my issues with self esteem.  When things are getting really bad between us in the past I used to say the old cliche that the heart wants what the heart wants, but right now I don't know what the heart wants.  The girl I've been dating thinks I'm amazing and tells me as much all the time.  I genuinely care about her, but as I said before, I just don't have the same "already developed" feelings for her that I continue to harbor for my ex.  It's the worst feeling in the world and that's why I feel so conflicted.

[seeking balance]

I think the sad truth of it all is that I do have a great deal of my own "issues".  I was definitely co-dependent in my relationship with my ex and I don't think I'm fully okay now, so in that sense all and of itself I probably shouldn't be with anyone let alone her.  The same can be said for my issues with self esteem. 

I don't know if this is really the sad truth - why not the happy truth... .  YOU are the problem for you.  Why is that good?  Well, you can actually change and control you.

Make your own mental & emotional health the priority. 

Let me put it this way, if you were 100lbs over weight with diabetes, do you really think going into a pizza/candy store every single day for an hour is going to help matters?  What would?

The show Biggest Loser - gets people out of their unhealthy environment and out of their comfort zone - so they can change and become healthy.

What are you doing to get out of your unhealthy patterns, coping style  and environment?  You have all the power over YOU - this really is a happy reality and not a sad one - once you accept this as the only real thing you can control.

[Darknightx13]

The show Biggest Loser - gets people out of their unhealthy environment and out of their comfort zone - so they can change and become healthy.

What are you doing to get out of your unhealthy patterns, coping style  and environment?  You have all the power over YOU - this really is a happy reality and not a sad one - once you accept this as the only real thing you can control.

I just feel like a big loser :-/

I agree that only "you" can really change "you" and I get that (again, from the intellectual side of things) but I want so badly to just see things clearly and I know that isn't going to happen overnight.  I'm afraid that once I do figure things out, assuming it even happens, I'll be starting in the mirror at an old man.  I have been trying to be super cognizant of things for the past few months since my ex moved out, but the fact is that I was very aware of things when we were together.  That doesn't stop be from wishing them away and I simply don't know how to trust my own instincts sometimes.  So when she shows up and says X, Y, Z things that really make me wonder if I'd be making a mistake not trying to be with her, it throws my entire picture of things off and I just don't know what to do.  I know no one can figure this out for me.

[seeking balance]

The show Biggest Loser - gets people out of their unhealthy environment and out of their comfort zone - so they can change and become healthy.

What are you doing to get out of your unhealthy patterns, coping style  and environment?  You have all the power over YOU - this really is a happy reality and not a sad one - once you accept this as the only real thing you can control.

I just feel like a big loser :-/

I agree that only "you" can really change "you" and I get that (again, from the intellectual side of things) but I want so badly to just see things clearly and I know that isn't going to happen overnight.  I'm afraid that once I do figure things out, assuming it even happens, I'll be starting in the mirror at an old man.  I have been trying to be super cognizant of things for the past few months since my ex moved out, but the fact is that I was very aware of things when we were together.  That doesn't stop be from wishing them away and I simply don't know how to trust my own instincts sometimes.  So when she shows up and says X, Y, Z things that really make me wonder if I'd be making a mistake not trying to be with her, it throws my entire picture of things off and I just don't know what to do.  I know no one can figure this out for me.

There is nothing to figure out - the fact is - what are you going to DO about you?

Therapy?

CODA meetings?

Rip off the bandaid of the new girl and be alone with your emotions?

Go to the Staying Board so you can learn some skills if you do go back?

Seriously, this has absolutely nothing to do with your maybe/maybe not BPD ex - what are you going to do about YOU?

[Newton]

Darknight wow... .  you are between a rock, and a hard place!... .  

I agree with Surnia... .  your answers and truth will come from her behaviour, not her words... .  

As for the seeking balance posts... .  I'm not a religious man but "Amen to that" seems the most appropriate sentence  ... .  read them, and challenge yourself