If Physical?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Are you planning to be at your lawyer's office as soon as it opens in the morning? This constitutes an emergency action. FD is right - it is a race to the courthouse.

Next item on the list is changing the locks.

For now... .   NO AGREEMENT TO HIS DEMANDS.

[GaGrl]

Are you planning to be at your lawyer's office as soon as it opens in the morning? This constitutes an emergency action. FD is right - it is a race to the courthouse.

Next item on the list is changing the locks.

For now... .   NO AGREEMENT TO HIS DEMANDS.

[livednlearned]

It sounds like your H got the same advice I did -- that it is ok to remove the minor child from the marital home. In my case, tho, I was advised to make sure S11 talked to his dad and talk to him regularly. Even the note from your H is like the one I sent to N/BPDx when I left.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can file an ex parte order tomorrow so that there is an emergency hearing. Otherwise you have to wait for a hearing to show up on the official court calendar, and that can take weeks, often months.

Be prepared that there may be no consequences for your H taking the kids. There were no consequences for me, but N/BPDx also did not file any emergency orders.

If he texts you anything that makes you worried, tell him you have an attorney representing you and will consult with her. It will cost $$, but right now while you are this fragile and worried, you need to make sure you don't make any decisions that could affect you adversely.

 to you -- I know it's hard. Your kids will be ok, and you are probably right that he is at his parents. It's ok to drive by and look for them. My ex never did that and everyone was very surprised.

[ForeverDad]

Your kids will be ok, and you are probably right that he is at his parents. It's ok to drive by and look for them. My ex never did that and everyone was very surprised.

I would suggest you don't do a drive by, not unless you are invited/allowed or your lawyer gives the okay.  Your H could claim you are stalking, attacking, threatening or whatever.  There are simply too many ways it could go wrong and get you into trouble.

Yes, this is an especially sensitive time.  My lawyer would tell you to stay home and wait for the morning.  He would probably also say it's okay to try to call the children if not too late (even if it is H's phone, just be sure to specifically ask only to speak with the children and of course speak calmly with them).  If you do, make sure you record yourself since he may try to use any contact to make false allegations.  (The agencies don't call them "false" allegations, they call them "unsubstantiated" or rarely the better "unfounded".)  Another alternative is to ask the police to do a "well check" for you.

I get the feeling you may have to take a few days off work until you get some semblance of normalcy and stability with your parenting time.

[livednlearned]

Your kids will be ok, and you are probably right that he is at his parents. It's ok to drive by and look for them. My ex never did that and everyone was very surprised.

I would suggest you don't do a drive by, not unless you are invited/allowed or your lawyer gives the okay.  Your H could claim you are stalking, attacking, threatening or whatever.  There are simply too many ways it could go wrong and get you into trouble.

Yes, this is an especially sensitive time.  My lawyer would tell you to stay home and wait for the morning.  He would probably also say it's okay to try to call the children if not too late (even if it is H's phone, just be sure to specifically ask only to speak with the children and of course speak calmly with them).  If you do, make sure you record yourself since he may try to use any contact to make false allegations.  (The agencies don't call them "false" allegations, they call them "unsubstantiated" or rarely the better "unfounded".)  Another alternative is to ask the police to do a "well check" for you.

I get the feeling you may have to take a few days off work until you get some semblance of normalcy and stability with your parenting time.

Not sure how it could be considered stalking -- they are her kids. He is allowed to take the kids and law enforcement cannot do anything to stop that from happening. Looking for your kids without causing a scene is a lot less threatening (and psychologically damaging) than having law enforcement do a well-child check. But I agree that it's a good idea to check in with your L and get some advice about what to do.

And if you do a drive by and your H sees you, will he accuse you of stalking? Yes. Of course he will. He's nuts. But he'll accuse you of doing all kinds of things, if he's like my ex, and it's just blowing smoke. After a while you have to do what is reasonable (running it by your L while things are so hot), and live a normal life. The kind without eggshells.

[ForeverDad]

Okay, I'm a man.  Maybe it was different for me.

But basically the police told me bluntly they'd rush over if I went to see my son and she called 911.  I didn't want to get arrested and they hinted without quite saying so that it could happen.  And she would have made sure to get me arrested, no doubt about that, since I had her arrested a few months earlier when she made death threats.  As bad she she looked, she was desperate to make me look as bad as or worse than her.

As it turned out, even though I didn't go to her apartment, she did file for stalking/harassment protection.  Seems she claimed I harassed her when I called once a day to talk to my son.   Of course all my calls were blocked too.

Those 3 months of blocked contact were the worst months of my life.  (Yet my lawyer acted as though it was no big deal.  So did court, the magistrate didn't even admonish her or anything, just said, "I'll order a parenting schedule."  Yet, as I look back I see that I survived and so did my child.  It wasn't fun and it wasn't good, but I got a better perspective looking back once it was over.  And it will be over for you too, sooner or later, it will be over.  This bad time will pass.  Count on it.  Pray, meditate, talk with friends, cry on trusted shoulders, hug a lot.  You'll get through it.  So will the kids.  As hard as it is to picture it now, very soon this difficult time will be past.  Patience, grasshopper.

[livednlearned]

As it turned out, even though I didn't go to her apartment, she did file for stalking/harassment protection.  Seems she claimed I harassed her when I called once a day to talk to my son.   Of course all my calls were blocked too.

That's my point. Whether you drive by or don't, or call or don't, you are "stalking" or "harassing" or whatever. What would Sparkle's H say? My wife is driving by in her car to see if I'm here with our kids. Come lock her up."

And then what? The cops will say, Unless you have a PO, it's a civil matter. Is she disturbing the peace? Is she threatening you physically. No and no? Then get a lawyer and take care of this in family court.

I can imagine if you got out of your car and came to the door it could become a scene, and then things can go terribly wrong. But trying to figure out if your kids are ok? Seems like a go to me.

Sparkle, ask your L what's best. The other thing to consider is how things might escalate if he saw you. I had to consider that when N/BPDx had S11 overnight during his psychotic break.

Not fun what you're going through right now. Let us know how you're doing when you can.

[Forward2free]

I agree with FD and driving past sounds like a bad idea on so many levels. N/BPDxh to this day takes out temp OOP against me to tie up court time and punish me. They never stick, but meanwhile, I have to deal with having a temp order against me and being constantly worried that he is trying to set me up for a breach. It's madness, and yet the court system thrives on the contention. It's hard to wait for your day in court to prove your innocence.

I say avoid driving past, but maybe have a friend do it on your behalf if you really need to know. Can you see anything from the front anyway? I had the kids for 9 months whilst N/BPDxh was prevented from access and I certainly didn't let the kids sit in the windows or play on the front lawn. He is HIDING them so I doubt you would see anything. I used to park my car in my parents garage and the neighbours garage just to be sure. He is probably being very careful as he can't keep them from you without a custody or OOP order either.

[Matt]

Sparkle13 would have to press charges.

I think this is a misunderstanding of how the system works, at least where I live.

The victim of a crime cannot "press charges".  You report the crime, and the police may make an arrest and charge the person with a crime.  Or sometimes it's the prosecutor who files the charges.

A victim cannot decide whether or not the person will be charged.  The victim is a witness.

(I think the idea that the victim can "press charges" comes from TV... .   )

I think FD is probably right in saying that Sparkle's husband was not charged with a crime because of how things happened at the time.  If a woman calls 911 and says, "My husband attacked me and I think my wrist is broken", where I live, he's going to jail, and he will be charged with a crime.  But if she first files an Order Of Protection, and they are still living together, and then a few days later she tells the police that he broke her wrist, that may not be treated the same way.

Your lawyer might be able to explain exactly how it works where you live.

One possibility now is to file civil charges - not criminal.  Civil charges do not involve the police or a prosecutor - you make the decision what to accuse your husband of, and the burden of proof is lower - "a predominance of the evidence" not "proof beyond reasonable doubt".  It probably won't lead to jail - maybe a fine or an order of protection - but it might be a practical way to hold him accountable, and to get what happened on record.  It could also be an opportunity to make him testify under oath, and if possible show that he is lying;  that transcript could be useful in the divorce trial later.

[GreenMango]

Hi everyone-

We've gone beyond our four page limit so we have to lock this up.  Sparkle its a good time to start another thread on these new developments. 

Thanks to all for participating.