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Author Topic: What do you think 'detachment' is?  (Read 1547 times)
Reality
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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2013, 12:19:16 PM »

I posted and then tried to modify.  It didn't take.

Reality
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« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2013, 08:01:01 PM »

lbjnitx,

The whole point of Good Friday is that life is so valuable, we are so loved, as the lilies of the field, which I think might be abstract-random thinkers, by the way, (haha as heronbird says)  that the change has happened, the Garden of Eden is at hand.

I understand the notion of sacrifice, yet even Abraham did not lose his wonderful son, Isaac.  Yet, Mary and Elizabeth... .

I am into mustard seed faith, as I count myself lucky on any given day to have the grain.  So what am I to learn?  The  only lesson I can figure out is that the world is a far more brutal, judgmental place than I could ever have imagined.  That doesn't mean, of course, that God isn't there or that I am plunged into a place of meaninglessness, just that people's lack of compassion and kindness plays out in the real world.  Next lesson might be that the mustard seed is not big enough or mighty enough, but that doesn't ring true to me either.

Which takes me back to the lesson part.  I may sound flippant, but I am just trying to say it as it seems to be.

I guess I had better go read CS Lewis, who lost the love of his life after such a short time.

Maybe time doesn't exist as we know it, clock-wise.  Or as my last son says, I need to think in Will-Time.

I really like being a lily, full of hope and trust and just being.  I think that is such a part of the agony, maybe all of it.  My liliness is gone.  I do pretend to be a lily much of the time, iron my petals and wash them with dew... .

You know, lbjnitx, just talking to you lightened the load.  Thank you.

Realily
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« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2013, 08:51:33 PM »

Oh, Reality,      

You are so right! C.S. Lewis is one of the best writers I know... . Such profound wisdom, and human honesty at the same time.

Life in this broken world just brings us so much pain sometimes and unanswered questions... .

The juxtaposition between our pain and God's love; the valley of tears we go through and the hope that we have at the same time... .

What I see in the parable of the mustard seed is that the seed is so small, seems like nothing really, but if it sprouts and takes root, it can grow into something really big and strong, something surprising, and that God knows the potential and is there to help make it happen.

That His ways and purposes are not so obvious and predictable to us. That it is a journey of time and slow growth under His loving care. He makes you into a beautiful lily, Reality, you don't have to work on those petals, just breathe in and out and as you relax in His presence, and stretch your hands towards Him, His love shines upon you, the petals will straighten and heal with time on their own... .    
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« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2013, 09:20:51 PM »

Dear Reality and friends,

We are all grieving.  Some of us are grieving the loss of the children we thought we had and you my dearest Reality are grieving the loss of your son here on earth.  There are stages of grieving.  These stages are not a linear progressive process.  We may visit any or all of the stages many times.  The final stage of grieving is acceptance.  What we know here to be radical acceptance.

What helps us be able to grieve is having the validation of each other and our experiences. Can we ever get to radical acceptance, the last stage of grieving without acknowledging that we are grieving?  There is much information about grieving the loss of a loved one.  What I couldn't find is information regarding the grieving of our living children.  

I am working on putting together some info that I hope will help all of us.  What helps us now is the strength we get from each other.  When one of us hurts we are here to encourage, support with kindness, accept, validate and pray for each other.  When one of us has a breakthrough, a victory to report or something funny to say we all rejoice together.

How does all of this relate to detaching?  To detach we must practice radical acceptance, to get to the point of radical acceptance we must go through the grieving process.  No one is grieving  more amongst us than Reality.  We are here to learn from you, while we support you.

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« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2013, 11:59:44 PM »

I say YES to all of this from all of you who I count as dear friends. qcr  
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2013, 12:54:24 AM »

lbj, for me the thing about grieving for my dd is that I still harbour hope that we will have a relationship and hope that perhaps she can heal herself but have to accept that there is a chance that neither of these will happen.

... .

In my last post I asked, how do we understand our own emotional needs... . it is easy to see the faults in others. Last night I was thinking of one of my favourite lessons from the bible: why are you telling me I have a splinter in my eye when you have a log in your own! If I have a log in my eye, I can't see too clearly can I, let alone criticise someone else for having a splinter in theirs?

I detect a bit of chicken and egg problem here:

Your dh doesn't think there is an issue, he thinks he is right, doesn't think he needs to change.

Now, WHAT MOTIVATION does he have to actually begin learning and practicing if he doesn't feel the need to change anything?

PessiO, I think the point is that while I can see the splinter in dh's eye, really I could be looking at my own log and doing something about that maybe   I think for me dh's issues provide me with an opportunity to look at my personality traits that are less than helpful and find ways to correct the imbalance I find. If dh's self centredness is such an issue for me, then perhaps I could look at my own ego driven thoughts and behaviours. I always found it ironic that the things that others tell me is wrong with me, are the things that I see is 'wrong' with them. So perhaps one way of looking at our flaws, is to see what bothers us in others.

I have tried and tried detachment as described in this link. So far only 'successful' when things are on the up side. When life gets tough, I have turned away as this is really hard work then.

Yep, me too. I find that when under stress, my default thoughts and behaviours return to the old less helpful ways of doing things. And this is I think the time (or afterwards, when we can reflect) when our best learning can occur. When we feel our stress levels rising and the adrenalin kick in, that is when we are likely to revert to finding external means to meet our emotional needs (unless of course we are dealing with a true life threatening situation). This is when we blame others, when we say, 'why me?', we when we want someone else to solve our problems. These are the situations we can use to practice those things that will draw us back to 'detachment', 'acceptance' and being open to the 'positive energy of the universe.'

... .

Griz, dear Griz strength to you! That time of wingeing and complaining about others is just the thing. That's me - or I hope, that was me   It's times like that I say to myself, 'it's not about me', that I need to 'let go of my ego' and remind myself of what my objective for myself really is. Now, I feel the need to say, I do still indulge myself and winge and complain about others, but I hope that this is slowly becoming more productive. Generally I feel that it is.

... .

Dear Reality, your grief is so very real, I can feel it. All this talk in the abstract may be of help to us to understand who we are and how to become better, but I think it does nothing much to ease the pain here and now, of your grief. Your sorrow is so, so deep and if you were here I would want to hold you close and soothe you. Instead please accept my feeble attempts to do so with these words. You are much regarded here for your insight and wisdom, we would all want you to take especial care of yourself, for our sakes.

... .

lbj that site:

Here is the link:

Just Let Go



is just brilliant!

... .

Now, as I see this, 'acceptance' 'detachment' and being 'open to the universe' as three discrete concepts that are interrelated and interdependent. To be able to become a better person, requires that all three become embodied in my thoughts and behaviours. To understand these concepts is not easy, and there are layers of understanding that can take us deeper and deeper into a greater consciousness of who we are. To continue to develop I need to continue to work on understanding them and those techniques such as validation and values based boundary setting and self reflection. This I have discovered for myself is not an easy fix, but a part of a process. I want to make my default thoughts and behaviours those which leads to a better life for myself, so that I can be a positive force for my world.

Thank you also, to my good friends here. I shudder to think where I'd be without you.

Viv     
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« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2013, 06:22:56 AM »

That is the dialectical dilemna Vivek , grieving for what we have lost while holding onto hope for what may come in the future... . to radically accept that both exist  together in the same space... . to be able to even explore these concepts we need to be willing to detach.  Yes?
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« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2013, 10:10:16 AM »

lbj - yes. It helps me to remember that radical acceptance is one part of the 4 areas of DBT skills. The other skill areas are needed to support our ability to accept. I think it is part of the Mindfulness module. The others are Distress Tolerance, Emotion Regulation and Interpersonal Effectiveness.

Need to also remember that this is a practice - a daily need to review and use and over time it will intergrate. Yet, when I stop daily practice it slips away again.

qcr
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2013, 09:41:46 PM »

Dialectical dilemma probably yes,  think but I do need to explore all this so much more.

When we look for answers and we come to realise that we need to look at our own thoughts, feelings and actions and see them clearly in the context of our own experience, it is like a thunderbolt (or it was for me).

Then to begin to understand requires a flexibility of mind and actual physical practice so our understanding is not just theoretical and in the mind, but also physical, in our thinking and our communications with others and in our emotions. This is not abstract 'argument' or discussion but very real and requires us to be present in the moment. We have to learn to implement our techniques: boundaries, validation, our personal mantras, etc etc daily, constantly. Until our practices become a part of us and our way of thinking.

In this way we can begin to strengthen our understandings, getting through the layers of understanding from starting out so simply to begin to delve deeper and more. Because we have others with us on this journey we are able to stay in touch and engage in the dialogue that develops our understandings. We can stay on track.

I have found that being involved in the posts of other people has been a good way for me to consolidate my learning. That dialectic though is still something that requires more attention from me - you see I first learnt about the dialectic dilemma when studying Karl Marx! It meant something different then   

It feels like I am preparing a new suit of clothes to wear and I have been selecting the right materials and designs and I am washing them, adjusting the fitting measurements, selecting the accessories and so on and so forth. Soon I'll have a whole new outfit I hope - and it will be one that ill be constantly changing too, to suit the changing in learning and experiences... . or so I hope,

lots of love to yas all,

Viv   

ps perhaps I need to learn more about those DBT skills, can you help me?

To be able to discuss this here, amongst friends who understand my situation, is a blessing.
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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2013, 12:28:52 AM »

Vivek  - here is a site that has helped my understand DBT.  www.dbtselfhelp.com/

qcr  
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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2013, 04:37:02 PM »

I just wanted to let you all know I was reading these posts and was almost in tears over passover-Easter weekend. So much of my husband in your husbands, so much of the grief and also hope I feel for my 2 DSS's as well as their siblings. There is so much here that resonates with me.

I am still reading and looking at all the links. I am posting to say thanks ... .   and also to make sure I don't miss any more insightful posts.
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« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2013, 05:27:40 AM »

there you go... .   qcr I saved it onto my favourites only to find that I already had the link there!

How many of you have read stuff in a frenzy and then found it new again and read it again and begun to understand... .   ? me for one.

but this site requires serious dedication and there is so much work here already (esp the need to reread the link lbj gave on detachment)

Still got thoughts swirling around my head... .   that I need to think out loud here, but they are not making sense yet. I need to consolidate all this I reckon.

Cheers,

Vivek
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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2013, 01:56:42 AM »

ok, you remember how this all started? How looking at poor old dh and sis and how not with it they were... .   well try this:

"So how does a little venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... .   we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  And in doing so we cling to a futile need to be right or be superior, which overrides our capacity to heal and to make healthy changes in our lives... .   usually because we don't know any other way to come to grips with the painful feelings of hurt, rejection, and abandonment. "


detachment is so important eh?

Has the anger gone too far?

Vivek  
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« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2013, 09:59:42 AM »

From the Lessons on the Leaving Board:


The Lessons are written to help the non detach from a romantic partner.  Regardless of the relationship designation the Lessons still apply.  (working on adapting this for parents).

Here is the link:

Just Let Go

Ok, so with 6 kids and a new volunteer ambassador position here, my DH dealing with his own depression in not so constructive ways. I am sitting here with my s2, watching caillou and he's looking at this little guy      and waving bye bye  and trying to get a post in edgewise... .  

I was reading the articles on the sally kempton site that lbj was referring to and saw this one on Difficult People... .  

www.sallykempton.com/resources/articles/the-difficult-people-in-your-life/

I tried the flower meditation on my DH and it worked. I tried it a bit with SS10  (bipolar-- and udx BPD traits) and it also seemed to work. it's not a long term fix for them but it is helping me see people as energy bundles which is old school new age thinking, but it helps to reframe things in not so clinical terms.

---

As far as detachment practice, I had a toothpaste revelation the other day.

I was sitting with my S2 on Monday morning and my SS15 was getting ready for school and kept coming to me with anxious requests. He suffers from Bipolar and is on the autism spectrum as well.

He was asking me for the 6th time if I knew about/ could get him/ did I remember / he needed a new head for his electric toothbrush. *He went from not brushing his teeth at all prior to hospitalization... . to over brushing his teeth to the point where he gags. The hygenist suggested an electric brush and even with that, in a week he had gone through a new head* I was reassuring him when a toothpaste commercial came on. There was this happy looking guy with a big smile just saying goodby to his happy parents and joining friends... .   and I just felt this synchronicity and sadness that my SS15 and SS10 will never be that boy in the commercial, in fact, with Ss15-- it was this twisted tooth brushing obsessive behavior -- and then I just said--- ok mamachelle this is a perfect moment to practice detachment and process and see a trigger... .  

Still long ways to go on detachment, but wanted to share.
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« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2013, 01:21:11 PM »

The past few weeks I have been searching for my 'detachment' toolbag that has gone missing. Just need to say thanks to all posting here.

qcr  
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« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2013, 07:07:45 PM »

mamchelle, that article is just right for me. Thanks you for the link. The website looks just grand too. I feel so much better.

The flower meditation brought tears to my eyes, this is what I am lacking in my life right now, guided meditation. I will immediately begin my practice. Thank you again   

Viv     
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 01:30:41 PM »

mamachelle, thanks for this article link. I have many conflicts to work through. This is one path to link into.

qcr  
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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2013, 07:40:31 PM »

I just wanted to say I think detachment is not cutting off from others or the world, but rather it is about meeting my own emotional needs, not projecting them onto others.

or something like that

Viv  
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« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2013, 11:12:10 PM »

My personal experience in a very parent oriented Al Anon group helped me so much while DD26 was not allowed in our home for almost 2 years. One of their primary principles is ":)etachment with Love". It is really about taking care of ourselves by stepping back and this allows a healthier r/s. And sometimes there it requires some physical distance. This was part of what allowed me to reconnect with my DD so she can be back in our home.

Things are tough right now. DD is under extreme stress - self induced - with her avoidance of her DWAI probation requirements. Her peer group does not support her success in this. Many of them have spent time in jail, and don't get why she is bothering with complying at all. DD does not want to be in jail - she has been before.

I am finding myself detaching from her - well more like dissociating with her. It is really not very healthy for either of us. I am working on finding the 'love' part again. This is also what validation skills are about. To take care of self so can be in a sincere and strong emotional state to build communication with our pwBPD.  Keeping ourselves feeling safe is a primary concern to be open to this communication - at least for me.

qcr  
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« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2013, 12:09:10 AM »

This is also what validation skills are about. To take care of self so can be in a sincere and strong emotional state to build communication with our pwBPD.  Keeping ourselves feeling safe is a primary concern to be open to this communication -

affirmative   

Viv   
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« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2013, 04:55:46 AM »

I think detachment is  allowing reality to be reality.  Mental illness is about illusions, a flight from reality.  Illusions are fascinating, yet very dangerous. 

Detachment is looking for truth. It is not about how we feel.  It is about observing.  The Dalai Lama. 

Stories can be very illusory.  Labels de-humanize. 

I see now that I was not thinking clearly for the last years.  Scary... .  

My husband and I needed to be a team, to discuss the reality of our son's dangerous behavior sensibly... .   slowly and sensibly finding sensible solutions... .  

It is very easy to disconnect from reality... .  

Detachment is seeing reality.

Reality

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« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2013, 05:03:11 AM »

Detachment is living each day.

Detachment is eating each bite of food, with contentment.

Detachment is about noticing.

Detachment is wisdom.

Detachment is the opposite of panic.

Detachment is true kindness, not pop-psychology behavior.

Detachment is being dignified.

Detachment is the opposite of being reactive.

Detachment is about using one's own mind to see reality, trusting one's perceptions.

Reality

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« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2013, 07:00:43 PM »

thank you reality... .   your words are blindingly clear.

I hope that you and your dh are a strong comfort for each other. It must be hard.

I am trying to work on seeing my reality with my dh. What it is with me that I can do, I ask myself. So easily I can tell him the splinter that is in his eyes, but that log obscuring mine, distorts my view.

Sadly, I have not been walking lately... .   a long story... .   it is when I walk on my own that things become clearer, when I can reflect and connect with my universe, when I can build acceptance and detachment.

Vivek    
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« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2013, 10:40:23 AM »

Detachment is living each day.

Detachment is eating each bite of food, with contentment.

Detachment is about noticing.

Detachment is wisdom.

Detachment is the opposite of panic.

Detachment is true kindness, not pop-psychology behavior.

Detachment is being dignified.

Detachment is the opposite of being reactive.

Detachment is about using one's own mind to see reality, trusting one's perceptions.

Reality

IMHO the process to reach a place of healthy detachment is through mindfulness practice.

qcr  
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