How is it that BPDs can get away with smear campaigns

[GreenMango]

A smear campaign is an example of the Karpmen Triangle.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

As an analogy - the triangle is like a stool.  The platform is the relationship and the three legs are the "victim", the "rescuer", and the "persecutor".   Three spindly, weak legs holding up a relationship that without each other might not exist.

Splitting makes it very difficult for a person to accept accountability or responsibility.  Having a black and white perspective on things of the world can make for quite a bit of conflict and strife in situations, especially with interpersonal relationships.

Communicating and interacting with a person with BPD takes some serious skills - boundaries, emotional maturity, very savvy verbal communication, etc.  It's a steep learning curve to changing the dynamic.  It's doable though.

[healinghome]

I think subconsciously they know they're wrong. They know they blew up and embarrassed themselves by being too emotional, and they know they said hurtful things. The smear campaign is a form of damage control, to soothe their own mind. They rewrite their version of the event so they can live with themselves. It's easier to feel persecuted than to feel guilt.

i agree with alot of this.  i think it is a form of damage control.  with my foo i think its also an expression of intense anger.  as though their own rage isn't enough to express how angry they are so they use others to express it through also.  they don't seem to just want to let you know that they disagree, or are angry at you.  but they want to destroy the person, and don't seem happy until they see the other person suffering.  yet again proof that they are unable to see or accept anothers perspective.

[SadWifeofBPD]

I think subconsciously they know they're wrong. They know they blew up and embarrassed themselves by being too emotional, and they know they said hurtful things. The smear campaign is a form of damage control, to soothe their own mind. They rewrite their version of the event so they can live with themselves. It's easier to feel persecuted than to feel guilt.

I agree with all of that except for that part that they know they're wrong.  Yes, they know they blew up, they know that they said hurtful things, then even know that they're behavior and words were far worse than their spouses'.  BUT... .   they believe that they were RIGHT doing/saying what they did because they were "wronged" and their "hurt" is far greater. 

My H's opinion is that his hurt, his burden, etc, is far greater than mine.

Last year, my mother had a major stroke and was unconscious. I flew out to be with her because I was told that "this was it".  I stayed by her side for 8 days until she died.  Then my siblings and I had to plan the funeral.  When my H picked me up from the airport when I returned, I got into the car, closed the door and said, "that was the worst two weeks of my life."  My H's response?  "It was the worst two weeks of my life.  With you gone, I had to feed the pets and take care of things."   WTH?   Feeding the pets is easy.  And when I got home, the kitchen counters and table were FILLED with old fast food bags and cups.  He hadn't even bothered to throw them away. 

I had just watched my mother die, and his two weeks were "the worst" because he had to feed the pets. 

[healinghome]

Last year, my mother had a major stroke and was unconscious. I flew out to be with her because I was told that "this was it".  I stayed by her side for 8 days until she died.  Then my siblings and I had to plan the funeral.  When my H picked me up from the airport when I returned, I got into the car, closed the door and said, "that was the worst two weeks of my life."  My H's response?  "It was the worst two weeks of my life.  With you gone, I had to feed the pets and take care of things."   WTH?   Feeding the pets is easy.  And when I got home, the kitchen counters and table were FILLED with old fast food bags and cups.  He hadn't even bothered to throw them away.  

thats so harsh.  i'm so sorry that you received that treatment.  grieving is really hard, to be faced with such a lack of empathy is horrifying.  i hope you got some comfort from friends.

i have to agree, i don't think that subconsciously they know that they are wrong.  i don't think they have any awareness that there is another perspective to the issue in question.  they are so consumed by their own emotions that other opinions aren't even on their radar.

[SadWifeofBPD]

Last year, my mother had a major stroke and was unconscious. I flew out to be with her because I was told that "this was it".  I stayed by her side for 8 days until she died.  Then my siblings and I had to plan the funeral.  When my H picked me up from the airport when I returned, I got into the car, closed the door and said, "that was the worst two weeks of my life."  My H's response?  "It was the worst two weeks of my life.  With you gone, I had to feed the pets and take care of things."   WTH?   Feeding the pets is easy.  And when I got home, the kitchen counters and table were FILLED with old fast food bags and cups.  He hadn't even bothered to throw them away.  

thats so harsh.  i'm so sorry that you received that treatment.  grieving is really hard, to be faced with such a lack of empathy is horrifying.  i hope you got some comfort from friends.

i have to agree, i don't think that subconsciously they know that they are wrong.  i don't think they have any awareness that there is another perspective to the issue in question.  they are so consumed by their own emotions that other opinions aren't even on their radar.

I agree.  That's their lack of empathy when it somehow involves them.  They can have plenty of empathy when it is completely separated from them.  When a co-worker's son died in a car accident, H was very sympathetic.  But, when the situation somehow imposes on him (my mom's stroke and death), then it's different.


Years ago, I noticed this.  If for the first half hour or so of H raging, if I even respond a little negatively, then H points to THAT as a reason why he doesn't have to apologize.  So, I learned not to say anything, then he couldn't point to some minor reaction as a justification for his awful behavior. 

[Louise7777]

Hey SadWife!

Im sorry about your loss. Im also sorry abt the treatment you had when meeting your now ex-husband. Its unbeliavable that their problems are always worse, no matter what.

Somebody mentioned "damage control". I have never thought abt it, but it makes all sense to me. Its their way to look better for outsiders, even if they know they are wrong. Yeah, they never acept any kind of criticism, they are perfect and never make mistakes, so somehow they have to throw the blame on somebody else´s back. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, you hit the spot.

[marcime]

I, too, am a victim of a smear campaign from my BPDd and it is so hard.  But I wanted to address something here.

There is so much written about the effect of BPDm (moms), am I the only one who has a BPD dad?   My mom was co-dependent especially after my dad would put her on a pedestal, cater to her like a queen until she seemed  to be trusting him again and then he would knock her off of the pedestal and shame her so that she couldn't ever put herself back together  again.  This happened over and over to both of us and other members of his family.

The way my BPDf and BPDd get away is the chameleon act and by changing audiences frequently.  They did the "best friend ever" thing until the BFF somehow did "something" unacceptable  to them and suddenly they were the worst person ever. 

The emotional damage my BPDf did to all of us is just so awful.

[SadWifeofBPD]

I was inspired by another posters thread about smear campaigns because that is what I am coping with right now. Here is my question... .   what IS it about BPDs that they can convincingly get away with smear campaigns and they seem to get some level of support but if the rest of us criticize anyone WE are the bad guys.

Here is what I mean... .   some years back Colorado State University (I believe) did a study that when you speak poorly about someone it tends to reflect badly on you rather than who you are speaking about. Which is fine, I can accept that bit of analysis and there is probably some justice in it. But somehow BPDs get away with their smear campaigns and seem to get the support they are seeking. To me, although it shouldn't matter, that is the most hurtful thing of all. They get the benefit of the doubt when they are the ones being malicious.

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this works for them? The only thing that even comes to mind is that they play the victim so well. But I would think otherw would tire of that quickly.

I think it works for them because they don't treat most people like they treat their "rage targets".   Think about it, if they mostly only rage or are irrational with their target person (spouse, parent, etc), then most of the rest of the world has no idea that they're listening to a person with a PD.  To the rest of the world, the pwBPD may seem quite nice and charming, so why wouldn't others take those smears at face value?  

[SadWifeofBPD]

There is so much written about the effect of BPDm (moms), am I the only one who has a BPD dad?  My mom was co-dependent especially after my dad would put her on a pedestal, cater to her like a queen until she seemed  to be trusting him again and then he would knock her off of the pedestal and shame her so that she couldn't ever put herself back together  again.  This happened over and over to both of us and other members of his family.

Gosh, if the children of all the moms posting about their BPDH's were posting here, you'd read a lot about children with BPD fathers.  (sadly)   What you've described is common.    

I, too, am a victim of a smear campaign from my BPDd and it is so hard.  But I wanted to address something here.

so sorry to hear this.  It must be painful.  Are you an adult?  How has your dad smeared you?  Who is believing the smears?  Can you counter in any way to clear your name?

[marcime]

"I agree.  That's their lack of empathy when it somehow involves them.  They can have plenty of empathy when it is completely separated from them.  When a co-worker's son died in a car accident, H was very sympathetic.  But, when the situation somehow imposes on him (my mom's stroke and death), then it's different."

I'm so sorry that your husband is BPD.  I've noticed this weird empathy thing re: others, too.  A girl that my BPDd barely knew in high school died a few years ago and you would have thought she had lost her best friend. She cried, wrote letters to the family, called the girl's actual friends and just insinuated herself into the entire grieving process.

She's done this same thing several times with people she doesn't know that well who are either ill or have passed.

Yet, in December when her own grandmother passed, she did nothing.

My BPDf is a little different.  He goes out of his way to help people so that they will think he is a "saint" and yet leave my mom alone after she broke her back and he refused to take her to the hospital.  We had to intervene.

The empathy is not real.  I think they learn to perform for an audience. It's another role for them.

SadWife, please be strong and nurture the strength within you.  My mother couldn't overcome the shaming. Just remember, it's him , not you.

Good luck, marcime

[SadWifeofBPD]

The empathy is not real.  I think they learn to perform for an audience. It's another role for them.

SadWife, please be strong and nurture the strength within you.  My mother couldn't overcome the shaming. Just remember, it's him , not you.

Yes, I think they thrive on having an audience; at least those who also have NPD traits seem to.  My H loved doing "stand up comedy", and he did it well because he has very good "delivery." 

It's interesting that you wrote about about your BPDd insinuating herself into the grieving girl's social circle.  My H did that with the co-worker whose son died.  My H hardly knew the co-worker, and of course, we were all saddened by the accident.  We went to the funeral, and of course we all "teared up" because the thought of a young life taken and grieving parents is awful for any thinking/feeling person.  However, my H carried on in an unbelievable fashion.  the other men "teared up" at times, but H was a total basket case.  During the reception/grieving line, when H reached the co-worker, H fell into the man's arms just boo-hooing up a storm.  At the time, I just thought that H was thinking "what if this was one of our sons?"   But, there must have been more going on under the surface that I wasn't aware of. 

The "audience" aspect is significant.  When there is an audience, H will be helpful.  Prior to guests arriving, H won't help out.  But once the guests are here, he's getting them drinks, playing host, etc.  When there isn't an audience, then forget it.  The second the guests leave, no more help.

[Surnia]

We're a healing board and I'd like to redirect this discussion into a more healing direction.

The OP raised this question.  

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this works for them? The only thing that even comes to mind is that they play the victim so well. But I would think otherw would tire of that quickly.

Many parents triangulate and there are lots of reasons.  People with BPD are more prone to do this (in general) and the actions and reasons and the significance vary.

Healthy  A constructive discussion would be to explore what onehoonose FIL is doing exactly and how she can deal with that in her life.

Unhealthy  An unhealthy discussion is to take a really broad term like smearing and tell war stories.   Doing this is called co-ruminating which is both rewarding and not healthy.

The term researchers use is “co-rumination” to describe frequently or obsessively discussing the "same" problem. The behavior is typical among teens and psychologists say it has intensified significantly with e-mail, text messaging, instant messaging, messageboards and Facebook. And in may cases it can spin into a potentially contagious and unhealthy emotional angst, experts say.

So onehoonose, can you tell us what your 87 year old FIL is doing and lets talk about how to deal with your specific situation.  

[cm365]

This forum is amazing. Cant believe how much my ex fits the bill!

Smear campaign in full effect