1.5 years... first call with words...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, I have finally come to terms with this. Yes, my ex-girlfriend (fiance) was most definitely BPD, as she meets nearly every criteria, was an alcoholic, had an eating disorder in the past, etc., etc. I could go on quite a bit about that, but I have elsewhere. What kills me is that I'm realizing she was justified in leaving and probably even in moving on already after a month or so (6 weeks now).

I definitely was being emotionally abusive, and while I didn't realize I was doing this, it doesn't at all make it ok or forgivable. I have read up extensively on the topic, and apparently it stems from a bad sense of self, and people like me latch onto someone and try to project onto them what we expect them to be, thinking it to be normal behavior. There are many things I was doing: separating her from her family/friends (I'd always have excuses, usually I felt it was for good reason like her mother telling her she should leave me if we had to move away from her because she "needed them", monitoring her facebook/emails (again, justified this by what I'd find- lots of conversations and all with guys, most of whom I didn't know and oftentimes inappropriate and crossing boundaries), extreme controlling (she was lactose intolerant/celiac & I'd try to police what she should be eating, and it got very bad for one example- there were many others), unintentionally putting her down in subtle ways (I'd say things like we should get you some nice new clothes/makeup, I like your hair better this way, don't wrinkle your forehead like that, you make funny faces when you sleep, etc.), I was not being affectionate at the end, and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. It makes me absolutely sick. I expect that I'm in the minority here and that most of you were the ones being emotionally abused. I am seeking help in therapy and reading a book on it to try and ensure I will never be this way again. Sorry I just needed to tell this to someone, as it's eating away at me.

[mtmc01]

So, I have finally come to terms with this. Yes, my ex-girlfriend (fiance) was most definitely BPD, as she meets nearly every criteria, was an alcoholic, had an eating disorder in the past, etc., etc. I could go on quite a bit about that, but I have elsewhere. What kills me is that I'm realizing she was justified in leaving and probably even in moving on already after a month or so (6 weeks now).

I definitely was being emotionally abusive, and while I didn't realize I was doing this, it doesn't at all make it ok or forgivable. I have read up extensively on the topic, and apparently it stems from a bad sense of self, and people like me latch onto someone and try to project onto them what we expect them to be, thinking it to be normal behavior. There are many things I was doing: separating her from her family/friends (I'd always have excuses, usually I felt it was for good reason like her mother telling her she should leave me if we had to move away from her because she "needed them", monitoring her facebook/emails (again, justified this by what I'd find- lots of conversations and all with guys, most of whom I didn't know and oftentimes inappropriate and crossing boundaries), extreme controlling (she was lactose intolerant/celiac & I'd try to police what she should be eating, and it got very bad for one example- there were many others), unintentionally putting her down in subtle ways (I'd say things like we should get you some nice new clothes/makeup, I like your hair better this way, don't wrinkle your forehead like that, you make funny faces when you sleep, etc.), I was not being affectionate at the end, and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. It makes me absolutely sick. I expect that I'm in the minority here and that most of you were the ones being emotionally abused. I am seeking help in therapy and reading a book on it to try and ensure I will never be this way again. Sorry I just needed to tell this to someone, as it's eating away at me.

[charred]

Abusive behavior is never the right thing to do, as you know, but if she is BPD... . it is easy to fall in to acting the way you described. A disordered person can bring out the very worst in you. The push/pull behavior, the devaluation and raging at you all make it hard to turn the other cheek.

Seeing a T, dealing with your own issues is a great way to handle it.

You may need to learn radical acceptance... . both to see the relationship for what it was, and to forgive yourself, once you have addressed your issues.

You are not alone, most of us that have been in a high stress r/s with a pwBPD, have acted badly at some point. I had a 7 hr argument with my pwBPD one time, and finally ended it when I realized I wasn't going to live my life with someone that had any reason to argue for 7 hrs... later we recycled... took a while and even worse behavior for me to give up and accept that the r/s was toxic, and that I was responsible for part of it, as I would respond in kind to her attacks (after a while.)

Painful, but you will get over it.  Thanks for sharing.

[DragoN]

Same here Charred. I wasn't a saint either.

Mtmc01, sorry if it came across that way. I was equally horrible in different ways. Not the put downs, but the emotional zero I gave to my husband and pretty much have to or allow myself to be dragged into it again.

[mtmc01]

I know that her behaviors brought out more of these tendencies. I also know that I was only emotionally distant at the end after a huge blowup by her where she got drunk and tried to OD on Celexa. The controlling stemmed somewhat from codependency from the alcoholism. But, those tendencies I feel were always there. And there's really no true excuse. In a way I guess I should be thankful I came to this realization so I may work on myself and never do this again. But, I also wonder what would have happened if I'd never been this way in the first place. 

[charred]

To be truthful for a little while I was convinced I was NPD... and the thought sickened me. My exwife said no way, more like shell shocked doormat... my T said he doubted it, why didn't I take a few tests... and I came back about half of normal for N traits... however, I was pushed in the r/s to be very NPD like in order to defend myself from the nasty attacks from my pwBPD. My father is a malignant NPD... and when cornered I act same way... something I am anything but proud of. The NPD-BPD tangling is pretty common.

[DragoN]

Try not to torture yourself with the "What If's" she is disordered. We each have our   we bring to any relationship. How we deal with it, is another chapter.

Fortunately, we have the awareness to seek for answers and own our own mistakes. We can make the changes. The BPD will not do this. We can change. And maybe learn ways to tolerate them, but in the bitter end, it's the demented tango around the BPD minefield of emotional chaos.

No matter what you did or did not do, she would find fault with it. That's the BPD game. You can only lose. The only way to win, is not to play.

Charred, I came back as PTSD with anger issues. I am a very different person than I was several years ago. I've worked hard on my issues, they are mine and won't allow them to dictate my actions. Wise mind I guess. Radically accepting my own errors and then making changes did help the relationship. But doesn't do anything for the pwBPD itself. It's only a holding pattern. Nothing more. It's not a real relationship, a meeting of the minds, let alone the hearts.

I was pushed in the r/s to be very NPD like in order to defend myself from the nasty attacks from my pwBPD.

Can understand that. Over the first years, I morphed into a raging inferno. Wasn't good. Wasn't all bad. Allowed me to retain a sense of myself. The entire gamut of BPD behaviors had wreaked havoc with my reality. Up was down and black was white. Gaslighting, the whole crazy ball of wax.

I didn't react well to it.

It's exhausting and no matter how well you do, it's not enough. There is no prize and no reprieve for sticking with a BPD relationship. Just isn't.

[nolisan]

well i wasn't perfect either

- when she would detach I would suffer extreme abandonment feelings; she warned me early in the relation she would need to detach when she needed space. It always felt like it happened after I had made some small mistake.

I would send what I now see as pathetic plea's "What did I do? How can I fix it? How can I do better? Can't live without you! Are you punishing me ... . etc."

or I would beat myself up "I'm stupid! A fool. Better off dead!"

Occasionally the last comment would illicit a phone call - but generally it was "Talk to someone else".

I see now that she had painted me black and devalued me - temporarily. Then she would "miraculously" reappear as if nothing happened after a few days or weeks = saying I looked terrible, need nurturing and then make love to me.

[jj2121]

I would not worry too much, as you can see what you did wrong and can address this. Took me a while to realise I ended up being exactly like a father to my ex,even after the breakup for months. Nothing changed with her though,there were a lot of lies and manipulation, it was like communicating with a child.

[GreenMango]

Thank you for your honesty. It's hard to do.

It's also a step in the right direction. 

[Vegasskydiver]

I definitely was being emotionally abusive, and while I didn't realize I was doing this, it doesn't at all make it ok or forgivable. I have read up extensively on the topic, and apparently it stems from a bad sense of self, and people like me latch onto someone and try to project onto them what we expect them to be, thinking it to be normal behavior. There are many things I was doing: separating her from her family/friends (I'd always have excuses, usually I felt it was for good reason like her mother telling her she should leave me if we had to move away from her because she "needed them", monitoring her facebook/emails (again, justified this by what I'd find- lots of conversations and all with guys, most of whom I didn't know and oftentimes inappropriate and crossing boundaries), extreme controlling (she was lactose intolerant/celiac & I'd try to police what she should be eating, and it got very bad for one example- there were many others), unintentionally putting her down in subtle ways (I'd say things like we should get you some nice new clothes/makeup, I like your hair better this way, don't wrinkle your forehead like that, you make funny faces when you sleep, etc.), I was not being affectionate at the end, and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. It makes me absolutely sick.



i AM VERY PROUD OF YOU. You are in the minority because most people cannot come forward and admit what you have.  Most people are in denial.  This is the first step in making progress in your life.

[VeryFree]

There are no excuses for bad behaviour. Reasons yes, excuses no.

But: things can't be made undone, so look at the future: you feel wrong about your behaviour, learn from it and don't make the same mistakes again.

Knowing our failures and working on them is much more important then making mistakes! So don't be too hard on yourself!

[Hurt llama]

So, I have finally come to terms with this. Yes, my ex-girlfriend (fiance) was most definitely BPD, as she meets nearly every criteria, was an alcoholic, had an eating disorder in the past, etc., etc. I could go on quite a bit about that, but I have elsewhere. What kills me is that I'm realizing she was justified in leaving and probably even in moving on already after a month or so (6 weeks now).

I definitely was being emotionally abusive, and while I didn't realize I was doing this, it doesn't at all make it ok or forgivable. I have read up extensively on the topic, and apparently it stems from a bad sense of self, and people like me latch onto someone and try to project onto them what we expect them to be, thinking it to be normal behavior. There are many things I was doing: separating her from her family/friends (I'd always have excuses, usually I felt it was for good reason like her mother telling her she should leave me if we had to move away from her because she "needed them", monitoring her facebook/emails (again, justified this by what I'd find- lots of conversations and all with guys, most of whom I didn't know and oftentimes inappropriate and crossing boundaries), extreme controlling (she was lactose intolerant/celiac & I'd try to police what she should be eating, and it got very bad for one example- there were many others), unintentionally putting her down in subtle ways (I'd say things like we should get you some nice new clothes/makeup, I like your hair better this way, don't wrinkle your forehead like that, you make funny faces when you sleep, etc.), I was not being affectionate at the end, and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting. It makes me absolutely sick. I expect that I'm in the minority here and that most of you were the ones being emotionally abused. I am seeking help in therapy and reading a book on it to try and ensure I will never be this way again. Sorry I just needed to tell this to someone, as it's eating away at me.

Very honest post and I have a lot of respect that you see yourself so clearly and have taken responsibility for your actions... As was posted, yes, a big difference is that you can own what you did and look within to deal with it.

How are your past relationships? Were you the same way?

When I was married my ex (not BPD) and I had fierce horrible almost violent fights. We would throw things, push each other (not often) but it was absolutely horrible. Since we split up that never ever was a problem in any relationship again.

My exgfBPD fiancee may have brought out the worst in me but I am relieved to learn that I am not capable of hurting her physically, never felt the urge and never would. I say this because I know if I were not in control and had that sort of aggression it would have ended really badly.

It's so interesting to read threads and project myself back 5 years ago and to think I also felt guilty and abusive but I do forgive myself and you must forgive yourself.

There is a trap here I think... not sure about this but it's worth looking into.Is there a way in which we feel guilty for our behaviour that almost makes us more connected to them in a way... Not sure how to put this really but I do remember elements of guilt that now I think were almost efforts to control or understand the situation if i were the bad guy.

Not sure if that came out well... . it's late!

Forgive yourself and do better in the next relationship. Whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

[laelle]

Growing up I had parents who rarely gave me a hug and told me they loved me.  If my dad did, he would start crying and snotting up all over the place so I tried not to get emotional around him.  (it seemed to hurt him to do so)

My parents loved me through "things" or especially my mom, she loved me through "trying to make me better"  If you lost 10 pounds you would be prettier.  :)ont eat that you will gain weight.  Lets go get your hair cut its looking bad.  Your wearing too much lipstick. etc etc etc

My grandmother never hugged me, she showed her love by feeding her family until we would bust.  Then after she would tell me how useless I am.

But she also never forgot a birthday, or failed to make christmas a memory that lasts a lifetime.  I knew she loved me in that way.

What I mean is, sometimes the only way we know how to show love is by "trying to make them better"  I'm not saying its right, I have issues because of it, but I still know my mom and dad loved me the only way they knew how.  Its how they were taught.

I dont know if this is your situations, but if it is on top of having to protect and "try to fix" the disordered person you LOVE, would you not "LOVE" them all you can.  For your love would be "things and making good enough".  Just food for thought.

 Laelle

[Surnia]

Hi mtmc01

Realizing your part in your past relationship is a great step! I can feel also your last sentence about the urge to speak about it. 

What you are doing is taking responsability for your side of the street. 

[mango_flower]

Hey - now THAT'S accountability!

Good for you for realising it

I think the thing is, that you recognise that this was not a healthy behaviour pattern and you can learn from it.

You're not a bad person - you clearly have a conscience. It's a natural human reaction to try and control things when they're out of control, I'm not saying it's right, but none of us are saints.

I agree with somebody else who posted saying that BPDs bring out the worst in us... .

There are things I have done I am not proud of - I'm not blaming my ex AT ALL - but the situation itself did make me a little crazy towards the end.  I too emotionally detached as I was pretty shell shocked, and I'm sure some of the things I said could be perceived as cold.

It's like, the ex hurt you so much with the behaviours that you lashed out with hurtful comments etc, passive aggressive perhaps?  Like I said, it isn't right, but we're all human and all learning.

I have so much compassion for you for writing this post and it definitely touched a nerve.

I too live with guilt every day that I wasn't perfect.  There are things I wish I had never said or done in those last 6 weeks, things I knew would hurt her.  Because she was hurting ME the way she was acting.  After a PERFECT almost-year together.  I didn't know about the BPD so I thought she was intentionally being difficult.  So I was difficult back in some respects.

Do I regret it?  Yes.  Do I feel horribly guilty and it's eating away at me?  Yes.  Can I change it? No.

I have apologised for certain things, it doesn't change it.

All we can do now is to take what we have learned and become better people.

And you are a GOOD person as you CARE, and feel that guilt. 

Be gentle with yourself xxx

[id-crisis]

Hello mtmc01 

Your post reminded me of a very uncomfortable day of realization I encountered during my relationship with my ex. The quickest way for me to describe it is by using a well-known quote:

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster yourself"  ... . and I surely had become quite the monster!

Do not beat yourself up unnecessarily though, we are all human and we all have our own crosses to bear, none of us are perfect. The difference is, in a healthier or more balanced relationship - if we unwittingly offend or disrespect another's boundaries, we are free and able to discuss, adapt & resolve the smaller issues, before they turn into huge mountains and wars of words and a matter of life and death!

It's a difficult one, we are all so different so what might be construed as abusive by one person, may be perceived as being thoughtful and/or encouraging, by another.

For instance, if a man said to me "you'd look good with your hair a different shade of brown" or with a "new style" - I may either respond to it very positively, or depending on how I was feeling about myself, or the intent and sensitivity of the delivery - I may have found it offensive. Personally speaking, right now, I would love some feedback and advice on my hairstyle and would most definitely appreciate a partner's honest opinion. 

[Clearmind]

mtmc01, you have voiced what many of us may find hard to admit.

Everyone on this planet brings their own history into a relationship - this is a fact. I certainly know what dysfunctional dynamic I brought into mine.

You are very courageous for facing your own stuff head on - Good for you! We each need to be responsible - this is what it means to have emotional maturity - accept our part.

Care to share some thoughts from your therapy session? How it has helped?

[mtmc01]

To be honest, I am just now delving into my issues in therapy, so there's still quite a ways to go there. I became aware I was being emotionally abusive through my own research and a lot of replaying the relationship and soul-searching. Most of my first several sessions were just going through "her" issues and trying to make sense of things in that way and from a BPD perspective. I have also been trying to fight through severe depression, self-loathing, hopelessness, and emptiness. The realization that I was behaving in this way tore at the very fibers of my soul. I can't comprehend how I could treat someone that I loved so deeply and truly wanted to spend my life with in this way.

As far as past relationships, this was the first really serious one for me that lasted any longer than 3-5 months. It was the first time in my life I'd felt this sort of connection with someone and truly was in love. So, I didn't have any idea of how I'd act and was very inexperienced in that regard.

I do have one question though:  would it be so bad for me to send her a letter or text acknowledging my abusive behavior and apologizing? I know it really tore her up, and I feel like I at least owe her that, even if I know she's with someone else and it wouldn't change anything. I just would like her to know I'm sorry for that.

[mtmc01]

I don't really care if it makes her feel more empowered or validated or anything like that. I'm not looking for reconciliation. I'm moving to the other side of the country in less than two months anyways. I just feel like as part of my process to forgiving myself I need her to know I acknowledge what I put her through. I have already said this to some extent, but I never admitted to being abusive and still was upset she wouldn't own up to what she was "putting me through", even though she was great at the end.

[GreenMango]

That's a good question on whether to send the note.  Apologies are a beautiful thing - especially ones that are authentic. 

What does the therapist say about sending one?

[mtmc01]

I had not discussed this yet with my therapist. But I went ahead and sent her a lengthy text. I don't expect or need a response. I just feel better having said what I wanted to say, and I'll continue NC now and let her live her life as I try to piece mine back together.

[Hurt llama]

To be honest, I am just now delving into my issues in therapy, so there's still quite a ways to go there. I became aware I was being emotionally abusive through my own research and a lot of replaying the relationship and soul-searching. Most of my first several sessions were just going through "her" issues and trying to make sense of things in that way and from a BPD perspective. I have also been trying to fight through severe depression, self-loathing, hopelessness, and emptiness. The realization that I was behaving in this way tore at the very fibers of my soul. I can't comprehend how I could treat someone that I loved so deeply and truly wanted to spend my life with in this way.

As far as past relationships, this was the first really serious one for me that lasted any longer than 3-5 months. It was the first time in my life I'd felt this sort of connection with someone and truly was in love. So, I didn't have any idea of how I'd act and was very inexperienced in that regard.

I do have one question though:  would it be so bad for me to send her a letter or text acknowledging my abusive behavior and apologizing? I know it really tore her up, and I feel like I at least owe her that, even if I know she's with someone else and it wouldn't change anything. I just would like her to know I'm sorry for that.

Well, I've done similar acknowledgments taking responsibility and you can too. Just know that for me at least, while the act of explaining myself and taking my share of the problem and guilt, didn't really help me. In fact, I could argue that it wasn't even good for her.

Don't take this wrong as this is just me thinking out loud but can there be an almost selfish reason you need to share this with her... It's easy to say and think you are doing it for yourself and I am sure you are... but knowing what I know now is that my ex and many it seems just can't take certain things in and there is a danger for you, that they can filter out the rest of the picture and all you have done is verify that it was your fault, as crazy as that sounds.

[Hurt llama]

I had not discussed this yet with my therapist. But I went ahead and sent her a lengthy text. I don't expect or need a response. I just feel better having said what I wanted to say, and I'll continue NC now and let her live her life as I try to piece mine back together.

I read this after I posted. Well. I've done the same thing, more than once and i totally get it.

You are doing all the things you can do and have taken real responsibility, (maybe too much, who knows?)... .

the beauty of this forum is that we are 'journalizing' our thoughts and can check back and read our own words and see how what we said matches up to what we did or do.

I hope you find the peace you are seeking and closure. I respect it.

[mtmc01]

Yes, I know that this very well will cause her to validate her actions and that type of thing. But I'm not looking at this through BPD-tinted glasses anymore. Yes, she had her issues. But, I felt I owed her that apology and wanted her to know I am owning up to my actions. What she does with that information is not my issue.

[Vatz]

At first, I was so happy when she made friends. I loved hearing about the fun she would have.

Then one day... . things went too far. I still tried very hard to be supportive. Hell, I even offered to meet two of her friends, when I did I kept things casual and friendly. One of which ended up sleeping with her. When she first started mentioning him, I was already pretty cynical on how her friendship with him would turn out, but I still left her alone about it. But wanna hear the funniest part? We all hung out together that day, and later she told me about how he was saying it killed him to hang out with me and her because it reminded him of how lonely he was. But even before actually sleeping with him, she would do things with him that I thought were a little inappropriate. But of course there's always a good reason for her behavior, always a reason that I would never understand but makes perfect sense to her.

ANYWAY, yeah you did seem to act controlling and some of what you did could be seen as abusive. Thing is, it's done with. At least you can say to yourself that you had no right to do it. You don't rationalize what you did. You don't say "You'd never understand why I did it, but I see things differently." No, you are holding yourself accountable for your actions and THAT is what's important. If mine did I wouldn't be on here, I wouldn't be in therapy and I wouldn't be considering anti-depressants. Therein lies the difference between you and the BPD.

[GreenMango]

I am owning up to my actions.

[jaird]

I morphed at the end too. I got sucked into her pointless, endless arguments, and I reacted a few times by saying hurtful things that I immediately knew were wrong. But this was after a good year of being abused 1-2 times a week by her raging about old issues that had been resolved, her feelings as "facts", and her twisted/distorted facts.

There was only so much character assassination I could take, and I guess I tried to push her away more than once. It worked.

[mtmc01]

My ex was not a rager. Actually, that is the only one of the nine BPD criteria she does NOT meet... .

[Maryiscontrary]

Oh, man, I can be real crappy, because I get so defensive and I do not feel like I am being heard. I have learned to just eliminate relationships that are toxic. I believe I am doing the right thing because I know being around crappy behavior will trigger it.

I guess the thing that enrages me is how apparantly lazy and stupid behavior a lot of people have. I am not saying I never act stupid, but I put a huge amount of work into improving my life, and I feel the urge to slap people who are willingly and knowingly like that. it's insulting.

So instead of feeling like that, I eliminate contact with people who act like that. Nip it in the bud.

Man, there are a lot of toxic, toxic people.

[mtmc01]

Oh, man, I can be real crappy, because I get so defensive and I do not feel like I am being heard. I have learned to just eliminate relationships that are toxic. I believe I am doing the right thing because I know being around crappy behavior will trigger it.

I guess the thing that enrages me is how apparantly lazy and stupid behavior a lot of people have. I am not saying I never act stupid, but I put a huge amount of work into improving my life, and I feel the urge to slap people who are willingly and knowingly like that. it's insulting.

So instead of feeling like that, I eliminate contact with people who act like that. Nip it in the bud.

Man, there are a lot of toxic, toxic people.

I mean, I'm not at all proud of how I was acting, but I am taking steps to improve myself and ensure that behavior never surfaces again in the future.