Seriously, it isn't love

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Ah man, I did not what borderline personality disorder was until this summer. At the time I was married to my husband for a year and a half. And I thought that perhaps he was suffering from paranoid personality disorder or bipolar. Although, I was sure it wasn't bipolar, because I have never seen drastic highs. Anyway, so this summer I discovered my husband was borderline. I was 6 months pregnant. I understood what borderline meant. But I really did not get what borderline meant. So, while I was thinking about ways to control and how to live with it, I conveniently forgot to really analyze what that love/hate thing really means. Like what does it really mean?

Now, I know. It means that they do not love you at all. They never have loved you. They never will love you. Their "love" is a delusion. It's a delusion that you both fall into believing. It's like God's prank in making you think someone could love you that much. And he is like, "Psych! This person is actually going to ruin your life with heir hate. Ha. Ha... .Ha"

Seriously, it isn't love. It is a big gooey glob of mental illness. But you know what is funny about BPD people? Their love usually does not make your life any better in any superficial sense. You don't become richer or get a better job with them or anything. Because even when they love you, they are still paranoid and don't really want you to be successful. In contrast, their hate can RUIN everything. They will find what is valuable to you and destroy it! You like your freedom. Well, they can get you arrested. You like your kids? Well, they'll take that away too. Think about it. They will go no limits to hurt you.

But what really hurts is what I said above: That it isn't love. It is just a big glob of mental illness. That hurts. I really thought someone did love me that much.

My recent episode with husband:

Keep in mind: I forgot he was borderline. And I have a 6 week old. My first child ever.

Thursday, Nov. 14: We get into an argument. I think it is my fault. But he calls me a "f-cking bhit!" I find that unacceptable.

Friday, Nov 15: He is still angry. I kick him out (BIG mistake. But he called me a bhit, right?). He goes to a hotel and starts drinking (Nightmare. He's an alcoholic).

Saturday, Nov 16: Still angry. Drinking in hotel. His mother says she is coming to visit (I have never met her)

Anyway, what happened is that he kept drinking in the hotel, insulting me, yelling at me over the phone, hanging up. This happened for days. So he says he wants a divorce. His mother texts me and starts insulting me and calling me names. Keep in mind, she's never met me. And on the texts, she refers to my son, *David, as her *David. And I'm like, "Whoa. She's unstable. You guys can't come to visit my baby." They go off the charts! To make a long story short, his mother calls child protective service and the police and says I bruised my baby.

And this is the man that just Wednesday, Nov. 13, had said he loved me, loved me, loved me... .And now, his mother and him are trying to take away a new mother's first born child.

That's how sick BPD is.

[Gloria_Patch]

Ah man, I did not what borderline personality disorder was until this summer. At the time I was married to my husband for a year and a half. And I thought that perhaps he was suffering from paranoid personality disorder or bipolar. Although, I was sure it wasn't bipolar, because I have never seen drastic highs. Anyway, so this summer I discovered my husband was borderline. I was 6 months pregnant. I understood what borderline meant. But I really did not get what borderline meant. So, while I was thinking about ways to control and how to live with it, I conveniently forgot to really analyze what that love/hate thing really means. Like what does it really mean?

Now, I know. It means that they do not love you at all. They never have loved you. They never will love you. Their "love" is a delusion. It's a delusion that you both fall into believing. It's like God's prank in making you think someone could love you that much. And he is like, "Psych! This person is actually going to ruin your life with heir hate. Ha. Ha... .Ha"

Seriously, it isn't love. It is a big gooey glob of mental illness. But you know what is funny about BPD people? Their love usually does not make your life any better in any superficial sense. You don't become richer or get a better job with them or anything. Because even when they love you, they are still paranoid and don't really want you to be successful. In contrast, their hate can RUIN everything. They will find what is valuable to you and destroy it! You like your freedom. Well, they can get you arrested. You like your kids? Well, they'll take that away too. Think about it. They will go no limits to hurt you.

But what really hurts is what I said above: That it isn't love. It is just a big glob of mental illness. That hurts. I really thought someone did love me that much.

My recent episode with husband:

Keep in mind: I forgot he was borderline. And I have a 6 week old. My first child ever.

Thursday, Nov. 14: We get into an argument. I think it is my fault. But he calls me a "f-cking bhit!" I find that unacceptable.

Friday, Nov 15: He is still angry. I kick him out (BIG mistake. But he called me a bhit, right?). He goes to a hotel and starts drinking (Nightmare. He's an alcoholic).

Saturday, Nov 16: Still angry. Drinking in hotel. His mother says she is coming to visit (I have never met her)

Anyway, what happened is that he kept drinking in the hotel, insulting me, yelling at me over the phone, hanging up. This happened for days. So he says he wants a divorce. His mother texts me and starts insulting me and calling me names. Keep in mind, she's never met me. And on the texts, she refers to my son, *David, as her *David. And I'm like, "Whoa. She's unstable. You guys can't come to visit my baby." They go off the charts! To make a long story short, his mother calls child protective service and the police and says I bruised my baby.

And this is the man that just Wednesday, Nov. 13, had said he loved me, loved me, loved me... .And now, his mother and him are trying to take away a new mother's first born child.

That's how sick BPD is.

[zsazsa]

I'm so sorry.

I get how horrifying that is,  it's beyond this earth.

So much pain everywhere.

[Lady31]

Gloria,

What a crazy nightmare.  I was married to mine too.  Just recently finalized the unavoidable divorce.  Agonizing.  Horrible.  Abusive.  Crazy.  Over the top.  

I had crazy bouts from him that were similar.  It was insane.  There was an element to him that was VERY dark.  

I will step out and say though that none of this is God's fault.  God is love - he didn't do this to you and he doesn't play pranks with people.  God is not the source of what you are describing - that is from a different source.  While I can't speak for you, I can speak for myself.  I asked God why why why... .and on and on.  I thought that my exh and I were supposed to be together because so many things fit.  IN REALITY - if I am honest with myself - there were serious red flags I chose to ignore.  It obviously wasn't as blatant and constant as after we got married, but they were there.  And I looked the other way and married him anyway.

Most counselors of abuse will tell you that there were signs of abuse BEFORE people marry, but they chose to ignore them.  Think back.  If there were no signs, then perhaps you married to quickly?  (That in itself is an unwise choice.)  Also, was it not odd that you were married to this man and never met his mother?

I am not condemning you - I DID IT TOO.  I am encouraging you that you do have a certain level of control over your life and decisions and you can avoid these types of relationships in the future.  :)on't blame God for something he didn't and could never do to you.  He is the one who will pull you out of this mess!  He is doing it for me right now.

As far as the extremes they go to - I know that hell oh so well.  Your latest "episode" sounds over the top and exhausting.  I prayed for a long time for my husband - but what I realized is, it comes down to whether or not he was willing to "bend his knee" and get help.  God wasn't going to step in and MAKE him do anything.  That was the heartbreaking part.  I wanted my husband whole and I wanted all that to go away.  I knew God had the power to do it and it hurt so bad when I didn't see it happening.  Then I realized that God COULDN'T override my exh's will.  AND IT WAS BREAKING GOD'S HEART MORE THAN IT WAS BREAKING MINE!  The only thing God could do was pull me out and start healing me - and of course that was dependent on whether I would bend my knee too.

Now I am bending both of them - and he is carrying me right now because I have no strength.

[ShadowDancer]

Gloria,

What a crazy nightmare.  

I will step out and say though that none of this is God's fault.  God is love

Now I am bending both of them - and he is carrying me right now because I have no strength.

This... .   

[Gloria_Patch]

I was actually using God as a figure of speech. I don't think He minds, considering.

To tell you the truth, I think it is the devil. My son is supposed to be baptized tomorrow. And during this week, my mom picked up the phone and was like, "I better call the priest and cancel the baptism." And I stopped her and said, "That's exactly what he wants us to do."

But anyway, about the signs... .One guy posted on another thread. Sadly, I think the thread was about how to have a one night stand with a BPD girl. Pathetic, right? Anyway, the guy posted, "Unless you are a sociopath, you will get lured into their seduction."

So, BPD isn't like your typical violent abusive husband. They're different. Everything about them is genuinely believed by them. So, they don't have that falsity that sets alarms. So unless you are a sociopath, trained therapist, or a person who has family with BPD, I think it is very easily to get into a relationship with one.

[ShadowDancer]

So true Gloria... .all so true. I do get your metaphorical example and appreciate your seeming incredible intelligence and your ability to metaphorically illustrate your situation during this trying time in your life.  

For me it finally came down to, "God you take over because there is nothing I can do for the disordered".

For the grace of God there go I.

A bit of advise. Do not let the crazy mother of the crazy son(and perhaps him as well) anywhere near this child for the time being as crazed at it is.

Do you have some place safe to retreat to in the mean time? Like family or friends?

[Gloria_Patch]

Thanks, Shadowdancer, but unfortunately terhe is no safe place to go, because I am married to him and child services are involved... .So if I take my child somewhere, then it could look unstable. Also, I can't leave the state, because I'm married and he can bring me back or bring up charges of child kidnapping.

There was a domestic violence charge on me last year. It was a felony. He was mad at me and made up false allegations. I forgave him, because of the alcohol. The case was dismissed, but they can be refiled. He has committed domestic violence against me though. But I had the charges dropped.

Here is what's going to happen:

His mother (She has an unnatural control over him. He has cried over her, because we didn't buy something she suggested. Also, she has bought him only one article of clothing ever... .And it was boxers) is going to convince him to go to the DA and try to refile charges. It may work. It may not. I already warned my lawyer.

Second, child services has taken my side at this point. But, the investigation is still ongoing. They are going to send DV counselors to both of us. I'm afraid he will slander me again from the case that was dismissed. If this happens, the baby will probably taken to the state.

Once the baby is taken to the state, the mother will try to step in and take custody of the baby. She lives in another state, so this process will take weeks, so my son will spend Christmas in the state facility.

So, I'm in trouble. An option I have split him white again. I do not even know if that is possible. I'm researching on the internet to find out how. It is a tricky game. Because he is unnaturally controlled. She did go back home. But, with Thanksgiving coming, I don't know if they have something under their sleeve. She wanted to see the baby and I didn't let her. She's not letting that go.

Second, I could hire divorce attorneys. Money is tight, though. I was going to file for divorce on my own on Monday. But now, after researching splitting, I'm scared that he will perceive that abandonment and go all out, when I may be able to turn him without all the trouble.

If I can split him white again, I may be able to get him into therapy and distance him from the mother.

[Gloria_Patch]

Any suggestions?

[Gloria_Patch]

By the way, I had a dream soon after my son was born that my husband, baby, and I were in a plane, and it crashed.

[ShadowDancer]

Humbly I'm sorry in that I have no suggestions presently. I am a dude and have an overwhelming desire to whup his ass good and royally. Therefor my advise would not be subjective or neutral. I feel the women folk with experience on the board would be better sources of support for you. Ladies?

[bpdspell]

Gloria_Patch,

I was in a relationship with a Narcissistic Borderline Male who was extremely abusive, punishing, selfish, entitled, and totally twisted and corruptive in his thinking. From what you've written you are in an abusive relationship with a man who is mentally ill. My question to you is what do you want? What are your plans?

Your situation is critical being that there is a small child involved and if you are being harassed by your ex and his mother you need to plan an exit strategy. Perhaps calling the National Domestic Violence Hotline will help you maximize your options in getting out of this relationship for good….if that's what you really want.

As far as God I agree with Lady31 that God is certainly not responsible for creating the borderline. Call it an evil force, the Devil, disconnection, the dark side, demons…a negative force if you will but the essence of who a borderline is is certainly not of God.

God is love and will empower you with the strength, grace, mercy and courage to make it through sad and difficult times. God's gift to human beings is free will and he cannot take that gift away from us. This is why as human beings we make choices and with choices come consequences. And borderlines certainly create their own karmic wheel of misery. That is their consequence: a miserable hate-filled, self-hating tormentor filled with bile, rage and loads of toxic poison.

What matters most is that you come up with a safety get away plan and get help.

My ex was not only a pot-smoking, emotionally abusive and entitled jerk he was also prone to physical violence, raging outbursts (which were terrifying for me), and working overtime to crush me with his intense jealousy and self-loathing. It is a battle that you cannot win if you choose to remain in relationship with them.

The physical abuse was enough to tip the scales for me…and I never looked back.

Spell

[HarmKrakow]

You are not born with BPD. Its purely the effect of a screwed up youth which stagnates brain development in such a way that they react like the known BPDers known to us...

Same goes for psychopathic killers... .Richard kuklinski is a good example on this. He wasn't like that because he wanted to be like that but purely how he got to be like that due to his fuc*ed up parents who abused and hit him

[Lady31]

Gloria,

Tough spot you are in.  He exh was just like Spell's.  BPD/NPD abusive, pot smoking, self entitled, abusive verbally and at the end physically, rage, venom spewing, suicidal, crazy.

Here is the deal - if you try to go back to "business as usual" - all that will happen is more of the same.  Nothing changes if nothing changes and if there are no firm boundaries set, he will escalate in his behavior and it will continue. And the next time will be no different.  You will be back in yet another position like this where he has some sort of "leverage" that has you in fear to stand up to him and do what you need to do.

It is up to you as Spell said.  What do you want? 

If you want to put an end to this abuse - I would start making a plan, pray while doing so and contact your attorney about options to find a way out of this situation.  You won't be able to control all that happens.  You will have to do as much damage control as you can, make the wisest decisions you can while minimizing risks, and then trust God for the rest.

In the end, it will all work itself out.  Definitely be recording calls (if you can by law) and keep a record of all texts/emails.  If the mother in law tries to contact you and get in the mix, have your attorney send her notice to stop contacting and harassing you.

If you are trying to tame things down between the two of you - I would maybe call him and say:

I understand you are wanting a divorce.  I would like us both to try to call down and talk about what that will look like.  What would you like to see happen and how would you like everything to be done regarding separating everything, custody & visitation, etc.  AND RECORD IT IF YOU CAN.

He may show his behind and make threats to make false allegations, etc. and then you will have it all right there on the recording.  If he tries to engage you in arguments try to stay calm and say, I understand you are really upset.  I am calling to discuss what you would like to happen and see if we can start working that out, I am not going to fight or argue with you.  If he keeps going off topic tell him you are sorry he is upset, that you will have to let him go for right now, and that you will be ready to talk about what he is wanting as soon as he is ready to calm down and have that conversation.

Ask your attorney if this is a good idea.

[livednlearned]

You are one strong woman. Dealing with two crazy people and CPS at the same time you have a small baby, your first. That is a lot. Do you have friends and family to help you?

It is great that you have read Splitting by Bill Eddy (I assume that's the book you're referring to). And the people on the family law board, while we aren't lawyers, have had a lot of collective experience to share about what worked for us. The advice and support I've found here has been priceless. Your instinct to strategize (splitting him white) might just work -- not to mention the holidays are coming up and that can be very triggering, even for people who aren't BPD. Whatever you decide, though, the first priority is to make sure you're safe. If you split him white, and he comes back, will you feel safe?

Where do things go from here with CPS?

You say money is tight for a lawyer -- you can always do consultations with several lawyers and ask them what their strategy would be for your case. Consultations usually cost roughly $50 to $100 for about 30 minutes or so. Start a thread on this board asking people what kinds of questions you should put together for your consultations.

It's critical that you get a good lawyer, someone who understands BPD. High-conflict divorces and custody cases are just different when BPD is involved. Whoever you work with, recommend they read Splitting. If they claim to know BPD, ask them about previous cases, what happened, what the strategy was.

Unfortunately, BPD divorces tend to drag on for years. It's a marathon. Of all the support I had during my divorce and custody, friends here on bpdfamily.com and the family law board gave me the best advice. People here know what you're going through, and understand the psychological issues you have to navigate in your BPD ex.

Big   to you. It is going to be really, really hard for a while, but it does get better. I left N/BPDx 3 years ago and if you asked me then what my life would be like, I never would have imagined it could be this good. My son is thriving. He wanted to kill himself when he was 8, and now he is a well-adjusted, resilient, kid doing well in school, good friends, making smart choices.

It gets better.

[Gloria_Patch]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

So, if I split him white: This thing could happen again. But also, I really did forget he was borderline. Or you know, my mom would say I'm not a therapist, and I'm like "she's right" and so I ignored it. The last splitting was in July. So, after the hormones from giving birth, plus I come from a fighting family, I was giving him a hard time, forgetting he was ill. So, if I'm aware, I could perhaps prevent an extremely devastatingly horrible episode like this one. Also, I can try to put his cell phone under my plan and monitor that he doesn't talk to his mom. And then, therapy. However, most likely, he will split black again at some point in my life, and I will be in another situation like this. Then again, he is 29, and they say some people mature out of it. But then again, his mother never did... .

Now, I think you guys have a point with getting a divorce lawyer who has experience with BPD relationships. There is one where I live. But, really, money is tight. I was thinking about filing for divorce on my own tomorrow. And when I bring up a suggested custody agreement, hopefully he'll agree. If he doesn't, then I might need to hire a lawyer.

Again, though, the scary thing about me filing for divorce is that it will split him further and cause him to contact CPS about domestic violence allegations and contact the DA. It will be a fight. But, I read that borderlines are good in court, because they are emotional and people tend to believe that emotions convey the truth. People lose their children on false allegations all the time.

But... .If I file for divorce and he tries to talk to the DA, then my criminal lawyer (She's already paid up) can say that it is out of revenge, because I wanted divorce and custody.

A few of you mentioned God... .So pray for me. Today. Now. Please.

[maxen]

hi gloria. you're in a crucial spot and i'm very happy you found this site. as livednlearnd said, there are posters in this section with a wealth (unfortunately) of experience in just our situation (having legal issues with a BPD partner). i can't add to their wisdom, but i can pray for you, so i'll do that.

[momtara]

I don't think manipulating him is such a bad idea.  Calm him down.  But the thing is, does that mean he'd come back into the house with you?  I don't know if I'd trust him enough. 

I hate the idea of your baby being taken to live with strangers too.  It was a fear of mine when my husband used to make false allegations against me.  Finally I got a restraining order against him.

Unfortunately, family courts like parents to share custody, so whatever you do may just make him angrier, and put your kid in jeopardy.

I like this advice:  "You say money is tight for a lawyer -- you can always do consultations with several lawyers and ask them what their strategy would be for your case. Consultations usually cost roughly $50 to $100 for about 30 minutes or so. Start a thread on this board asking people what kinds of questions you should put together for your consultations."  BUT many consultations are free, some for an hour.  Also, you can post on avvo.com for free.

You will prevail in this.  Many people here have been through the same things.  It is scary and demoralizing at first.  Then, slowly, it gets better.  So keep the faith.  I'm sure your CPS people would rather the baby be with you than with its grandmother who you've never met. 

Keep us posted. 

[ForeverDad]

There are various events that are triggers of heightened conflict and acting out, childbirth is one.  So is getting "kicked out".  Likely he got himself "triggered" into overractions, with the past legal conflict, that's not surprising.  But it's no excuse either!  Other triggers are birthdays, weddings, funerals, holidays, job changes, the list is endless.  Some events will impact him more than others.  Sadly, you can't possibly avoid them all.  You can probably minimize them to some extent but not avoid them.

Boundaries are very important.  You'll have to almost start from scratch since the past two years have set a poor precedent.  However, as was mentioned here you have to carefully set up the first ones due to the legal posturing from him and his mother.

Very important, have you been documenting his recent behaviors.  Did you have any friends with you to hear his rants, rages and threats?  Did you record them?  Having documentation like that may help you to counteract his allegations.

Here's what happened with me.  My ex would periodically rant and rage.  At first, a few years into our marriage, it was every six months.  That's about the time she started cursing like a sailor during them.  Then we moved since she was causing conflict with our volunteer work.  Then I thought having a baby would make her happier.  (Too late, I learned I was misguided, having children doesn't fix a dysfunctional relationship, it is more likely to make it more complicated.)  It seemed to me she could love us both, so she chose our child, started alienating our friends, isolating me from my family.  She considered everyone but herself as "probably" child abusers.  Rather than bask in a child's life of discovery and exploration, she relived her childhood through our child.

Eventually she started looking sideways at me, I senses it was a matter of time before I was blacklisted too.  One day during a rage I called 911 and police responded.  By the time they arrived I was standing to get some distance from her.  Our preschooler was sobbing in my arms.  One officer spoke with me, then joined the other officer speaking with her.  Then one asked me to hand our son over to her and to step away.  I have no idea what she told them, I assumed it was to talk but as I look back in hindsight I wonder whether they were preparing to cart me away.  When I tried to comply, my son shrieked and grabbed me even tighter.  The officer looked at me for a long moment, then said "work it out" and they left.  I think my son unknowingly saved me that day from an arrest but there's no way to know for sure.

However, I had recorded the incident, before during and after the call to 911.  Sadly, the speaker didn't work.  When I downloaded it to a CD and made a report and the officer listened to her death threats, she was arrested for threat of DV.  That marked our separation and eventual divorce.  Her case eventually went to trial but the judge stated case law said "imminent" threat was only if she had a weapon in her hands and without testimony about a weapon he said she wasn't guilty and dismissed the case.

Over the years she has made allegations in just about every way she could, to police, sheriff deputies, doctor, hospital, regional child abuse center, child therapy agency, CPS, she once even tried to get an Amber Alert.  I started with alternate weekends, typical for dads.  Over 8 years it had gone from that to equal time in Shared Parenting to my custody but still equal time and currently pending is my case seeking majority time.

I had been quietly recording in the final months of our marriage.  I wanted documentation that it wasn't me ranting and raging.  I didn't not know then whether it was technically legal or not to record.  (Some states have stricter laws than others.)  As it turned out that's not a legal issue where I live but even if it were I still would have recorded.  I felt I needed documentation of her rants and rages in private or non-public scenarios so it could be seen that I wasn't the one misbehaving.  It has been commented here that though courts may try to stay away from recordings, they may be helpful with evaluators and CPS who have incentive to get the big picture.  As it turned out, I've had police (2005), municipal court (2006), CPS (2007) and family court (2013) listen on rare occasions to recordings and they were helpful.

Back to your situation... .Due to the legal implications of the past court cases and their current attempts to involve CPS, seek legal consultations, perhaps even with criminal attorneys to ponder how best to deal with the past cases.

It's difficult to tell you precisely what to do since there are so many variables, yet our collective experiences will be very helpful.  We've learned the hard way what usually works and what usually doesn't.

Set some priorities.  Establish yourself as the primary caregiver for your child.  Probably it is best that his parenting be kept very limited.  (So offering him a normal parenting schedule likely isn't a good idea.)  That's why I asked if you had any documentation of his repeated drunken rants and threats.  You already know he has no compunction against making false allegations, apparently the same with his sight-unseen mother, so you need to be very PROACTIVE in defending yourself and your parenting.  Resist the urge to yell back at him, that's what he wants, to drag you down to his level.  Show yourself always as the properly behaving adult and parent.  Accumulate documentation of that.  Make it so that his every allegation is an unsubstantiated allegation.  (Courts and CPS will likely never call allegations false, on rare occasions they will call them unfounded but most often the best you can get is for them to state they are unsubstantiated.)

Be aware that you currently have kicked him out, but without court paperwork (which could give you possession of the home at least temporarily in a TPO or TRO) I don't know how long you can keep him out.  Try to set up the "new normal".  Part of the new normal is better boundaries.  Boundaries are not really about him, he is what he is, likely you will never change that... .boundaries are about you.

Keep in mind that making deals with your spouse probably won't work, either not at all or not for long.  (Yes, he theoretically could change and improve in the years to come, but you have no assurance of that and in any case it would take professional help, diligent application on his part and many years to determine whether it really did work.)  Probably best to find out what your legal options are and then proceed accordingly.  While not making choices that go out of your way to make him overreact - his typical response - you still need to do what you have to do.  'Let you eye not feel sorry' lest you regret exposing yourself to more chaos, obstruction and sabotage.

You mentioned you both have had the other in court.  Do you have just as much right to restart your case as he does his?  Then maybe he doesn't have as much leverage or control over you as you feel, hmm?  Get legal advice about that.

Your case boils down to two primary aspects:  (1) your parenting of your newborn and (2) your legal conflicts with your spouse.  Everything else springs from those two issues.  So focus on how best to reach your goals.

[livednlearned]

Also, the mother in law. She's a problem.

Is there a way to get a TRO against her?

[momtara]

This is a scary situation because you want to protect yourself and the baby without further triggering him so that he is angry later.  You don't want to do too many dirty tricks because you don't want him to respond in kind.  But you *do* want to protect yourself.

Document, tape record every conversation related to this, keep a journal.  You never know when he will say something threatening.  Same with the mom.  Make this your mission - to be a spy, to protect your kid.

Eventually they both may tire of the child, but for now they see it all as something they have to win.

Definitely see lots of lawyers and see what they think.  Don't get sucked back in by him now that you know what he's capable of, but you can manipulate him if you need to.

[casper324]

I am so sorry you are going through this with your husband since it is supposed to be such a happy time.  My advice as hard as it is to do is RUN now while you have the chance.  A child takes away attention from a BPD person and that causes all kinds of issues.  My husband (soon to be ex) used to use my kids when ever we had an argument.  The smallest argument would cause him to put my young kids in a bad situation because if they didn't chime in with the verbal nonsense, they were against him.  I had hip surgery a few years ago, a hip replacement.  I slept on the couch after coming home from the hospital because it was easier.  My nutty husband woke me and the house hold up at 7AM one morning (4 days post op) complaining that I didn't clean the house.  My daughter who was 20 and home from College for Christmas told him to leave me alone, I can't clean 4 days post op.  He hasn't spoken to her since, did not attend her college graduation and tried to kick her out of the house when she came for a visit this summer.  My son is frozen and afraid to do anything because his father never encouraged him in any way shape or form.  My oldest daughter is disabled and he has alienated her from everyone but his family.  Its called Parental Alienation Syndrome.  He has isolated her, bullied her and manipulated her to keep her away from everyone including me.  Son't let him use the baby as a way back in.  I know it will be hard because you probably WANT a family.  Just remember with BPD there is no family, only themselves. 

Hugs,

Beth

[bpdspell]

Just remember with BPD there is no family, only themselves. 

So true.

[LynnieRe]

Get the minimum.  I mean it.  don't push for anything.  Tell your lawyer (and get a good one) to look into anything regarding his past, like DWI's etc etc.  My ex, who BTW conveniently left for another woman when I was pregnant!  came back into the picture only a few years ago.  Then he left again.  I went to a lawyer, where first I got kudos for not putting his name on any papers, then my lawyer told me that given the stability of my life and the instability of his, the only thing a judge would give me was the chance to pay HIM support.  And the judge would also think I'm an idiot.  He left and came back again.  He was so emotionally and verbally abusive that my daughter became depressed and suicidal.  I am telling you.  Save every single text.  You can get spyware on your phone, or let all his calls go to voice mail, so you have recordings of his phone calls.  And his mother too.  Go for the minumum for him, supervision for visits.  Demand no money or the barest minimum, and don't take him to court when he doesn't pay.  my BPD ex is also an alcoholic.  The bottle is his love, let him have it.  eventually he will choose that over the baby, and you need to let him.  That child deserves a loving home, and you give it to him as much as you are able, and you will find someone who will be there for him.  I have.  It takes time to heal but it will happen.