Well... she wins

[SheChangedMe]

After over a year out of the house, I have decided to just give up.  I have two late teen children who are subjected to her constant roller coaster behavior.  As well as her ability to constantly cut me down without me being able to defend myself.  She has got me evicted from my apartment due to her behavior.  I rarely see my family because of the problems she causes and my kids no longer see me as a role model in their life.  (My daughter recently posted that her grand father was the most important man in her life and always has been)... .   insert hand, rip out heart... .     When I mentioned this to my wife, she said "well do you blame her?, all you ever did was abandon us"   

This is so far from reality that I can't even begin.  My uBPDw of 22 years is on her 6th therapist and has gained no coping skills for even the smallest amount of stress.  I have worked 3 jobs for over 5 years, built by hand a new home for the family, do all the finances, plan everything for everyone, do not drink, do not gamble, have no hobbies, spend no money and on and on and on... .      Yet I am hated with such venom that it drips from her tongue. 

I can't take not knowing if she will come pounding on my door at 3 a.m., the 300 texts a day (not a typo), the 54 phone calls in 2 hours (again , not a typo).  The screaming, the grunting like an animal, the rocking, the compete inability to act like an adult.  I am done... .   She wins.  I GIVE UP!   I am going back.  I will live my life in hell and at least do something positive for my children, even if they don't realize it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rockylove]

 

Wow... .   I'm so sorry you are in this position.  I understand that you're going back to give your children some relief from the turmoil, but what will that do for you?  Do you have the option of having your kids live with you instead? 

[SheChangedMe]

Every time I have tried to introduce my kids to my place, my wife causes such a disturbance that they feel compelled to go to her.  They feel guilty that she is in so much pain and feel obligated to go to her.  Never-mind how I feel about it.  My heart is crushed, but I handle it like an adult.  My wife has even said that we should sit the kids down and make them chose who they like more, me or her?  Who does that?  I refused obviously, but this is the mentality that I am dealing with.  Its akin to trying to reason with a 4 year old who wants a cookie before dinner.

I am no quitter, however I see no other option but to just give in and try to find joy in watching my children enjoy their lives.  Their well being a paramount to mine. 

[VeryFree]

Tough one. Two questions:

1.

Will she win by you giving in, or will you just loose?

Think carefully about that. If you give her what she seems to want, what is the next step?

2.

How about the kids? Will they be better off if you give in? Is she a good mother?


Try reading as much as possible on the different boards overhere. A lot of help around!

[lbjnltx]

Hello SheChangedMe,

I'm sorry for the position you are in and understand the decision to go back into the home to give your children some guidance and balance in their lives and perspective.

I am no quitter, however I see no other option but to just give in and try to find joy in watching my children enjoy their lives.  Their well being a paramount to mine. 

I am concerned about this statement and would like to explore it with you if that is ok.

One of the misconceptions that we parents have is that our children's needs and health is paramount to our own.  So I am going to ask you some questions to challenge this thinking:

Since children learn how to cope by watching their parents, what will your children learn from watching you?

Since children need strong leadership in the home, how can you be a strong leader for them?

Since children mirror the actions of their parents what kind of example will you be setting for them if you don't make taking care of self a priority?

What do you think?

[GaGrl]

My DH had been separated from his ex for 14 years when he reconnected with me (we had known each other as teens), FINALLY went through the legality of a divorce, and married me.  His children were all in their twenties at the time -- 24 to 29.

DH's relationship with all three of his adult children was reinvigorated with his action to end the legal limbo and move forward with his life.  They never thought he would make himself "non available" to the ex.

(Yes, she was difficult for a couple of years, but we got through it together.)

[SheChangedMe]

Thank you all for your replies... .  

I do understand that children learn by what they witness parents doing.  When I say that I give up, I mean that the constant struggle every minute of every day is now much worse than what I went through while I lived under the same roof as my wife.  She is just brutal in her anger and vengefulness (sic) anymore.  And she can keep it up for days and at times weeks.  Utterly exhausting. 

I do not intend for my children to see me as a weak person who just lets mom dictate my life.  But as we all know BPD's do this to all of us.  We placate constantly to avoid the next looming meltdown.  My children do not have the ability to deal with her head-on.  So I believe that I need to be there as a cushion for them.  I will take her wrath and hopefully give them a much deserved break.

I hope I am not coming across as a martyr, that is not what I am doing.  But I have no life right now anyway.  I would rather not have a life and at least see my kids.

[VeryFree]

I hope I am not coming across as a martyr, that is not what I am doing.  But I have no life right now anyway.  I would rather not have a life and at least see my kids.

My story very short:

Almost a decade of troubles. I wanted to go for her bigtime and agreed to her demands that I would seek professional help, before we went together in T.

Why? Because I thought it couldn't get worse.

But it could. How closer an appointment for the two of us came, how nastier she got with her daily harressments: from boobietrapping the door to waking me up every single night.

At that time I refused to get angry: help was on its way!

No it wasn't, because for some reason the appointment never got made... .   and she found that a reason to quit.

Even then I tried to talk her into T together and thing got even worse: She set me up: attacked me and after we both called the police I had to leave the house. A few months later she filed charges against me (and I didn't do anything wrong).

Bottomline: think, think and think again if it's going to help YOU to go back. Realize that there are certain risks.

[WalrusGumboot]

I do not intend for my children to see me as a weak person who just lets mom dictate my life.  But as we all know BPD's do this to all of us.  We placate constantly to avoid the next looming meltdown.  My children do not have the ability to deal with her head-on.  So I believe that I need to be there as a cushion for them.  I will take her wrath and hopefully give them a much deserved break.

I am not going to tell you what you are doing is a mistake... .   or the right thing, but I want to give you food for thought.

I endured my xBPDw for 23 years. I spent 18 of it in ignorance about BPD, and the last 5 in complete knowledge of it. My first thought of divorce occurred when we were only married 8 years. Plenty of reasons why I stayed as long as I did, but one of the primary was "the kids". I was the rock in the family and needed to be there.

The result today?

The older child ran away from home to live with grandparents and would not come home because of her. My parents turned against her and I was forced to choose between her and our younger son and my parents and rest of the family. I chose what I thought I should choose, my wife, and it caused a breakup between myself and my family for 7 years, during which time my father fell ill with terminal cancer. My son got it all kinds of trouble, including a felony for damaging property. The end result now? He turned out OK and finished college, but it was jail time that changed him. We get along great, but loathes her and has nothing to do with her. He has plenty of scars.

The younger son is 22 now and has no real direction in life. He has picked up many of her bad habits. Laziness, depression, low self-esteem, entitlement issues, etc. Great kid and very intelligent, but is perfectly happy living on the coattails of other people's hard work. He knows his problems, and after my divorce had confided to me that he wished I had divorced her when he was a little kid. He added it would have saved him a lot of grief. He still talks to her, but their relationship is troubled. Who knows yet what the full extent of the damage.

Your experience with your kids may vary, but you won't be doing them the favor you think you will be doing.

WG

[Louise7777]

Hi SheChangedMe!

Im sorry to know you have been through such difficulties. All of us have been the target or witnessed such behaviour, unfortunately. You are not alone.  

You said shes on her 6th therapist. How abt you? Did you ever tried that for urself?

Seems to me you have to take care of urself first, so u can help ur kids next. From what you say, I believe she has some sadistic traits. Not sure thats acurate and if you notice that urself... .   If thats the case, you must be so exahusted and probably see no way out. But there is a way: empower yourself and set boundaries. I know, easier said than done, but think abt it.

Keep reading the threads and articles, I hope it will help you. Take care!

[lbjnltx]

I do not intend for my children to see me as a weak person who just lets mom dictate my life.  But as we all know BPD's do this to all of us.  We placate constantly to avoid the next looming meltdown.  My children do not have the ability to deal with her head-on.  So I believe that I need to be there as a cushion for them.  I will take her wrath and hopefully give them a much deserved break.

What skills do you have to show the kids you are strong? Value based boundaries

What skills do you have to bring calm into the home? How to stop circular arguments

How can you be an example of compassion and not angry resentment?  Forgiveness

I hope I am not coming across as a martyr, that is not what I am doing.  But I have no life right now anyway.  I would rather not have a life and at least see my kids.

Being in the home and helping the kids will take a great deal of work on your part to not make it worse. 

Being out of the home and providing a safe haven for the kids will also take some work and may not happen if the kids are so poisoned against you that they see you as a bad guy.

Working the Lessons here on the Staying board will give you access to the skills you need as well as the support to do this. 

Are you committed to doing this?

[yeeter]

Hi shechangedme.

It is my personal opinion that being in your children's lives on a daily basis CAN make a difference.  But with several caveats.

You have to figure out how to purge the conflict.  And, you have to do this in a way that you don't become a doormat or just an 'employee' to the family.  You will have to figure out how to set boundaries that she accepts (at least to the degree that it's not just more turmoil).  You have to set an example of a decent life for yourself by having your own interests.

It might not be possible.  There can be just as much alienation and conflict by being there as there is separated.  Unfortunately, the system is designed with bias against you such that getting a 'fair' deal isn't guaranteed. 

I will assume you have explored all the options to making a foundation for yourself and children separated.  I know that once I made the decision to stay and not divorce, there were several days when I just cried at the thought of it.  Not at all what I wanted.  But the better of two non-ideal choices I had to choose from.

It will be hard.  My advice at least to start, is to COMMIT to the decision.  All in.

Post often.  Use the great advice and grounding of this site.     

[SheChangedMe]

You are all such a great help to me.  Thank you.

No two stories are the same here, but what you are saying rings true to me.  Getting my kids to accept me as their "rock" as I used to be is important to me.  But this makes me question myself.  Am I doing this so I can feel better on thier opinion of me?  Or am I moving back to actually protect them?  I feel it is the latter.  As you know, in the world of BPD, it makes you question nearly every move you make.

Is it uncommon for someone in my position to be more comfortable being the "Victim" (hate that word), than the person causing grief to the BPD?  Because I definitely feel more at ease if I am one dealing with the hardships rather than being the one causing my uBPDw pain.   

It was excruciatingly difficult to leave the first time.  If I move back I don't know that I would have the strength to go through with it a second time.

[WalrusGumboot]

Am I doing this so I can feel better on thier opinion of me?  Or am I moving back to actually protect them?  I feel it is the latter. 

It might be both. There will be damage control, based on your first post in this thread. If she told you that you abandoned them, then it is assured that she told your kids. I think if you plan on protecting them somehow, you have some relationship building coming so that they will WANT you to protect them. They are teenagers, you know.

Then there is the fact that your kids are in the age group where it is pretty common for them to have a not so great opinion of their parents. In their late teens they are already driving, so if they don't like what is going on at home, they go somewhere.

What exactly are you going to protect them from?

It was excruciatingly difficult to leave the first time.  If I move back I don't know that I would have the strength to go through with it a second time.

When you feel that your very survival depends on it, you will find the strength. I thought I didn't have it in me either, but I was amazed when it came right down to it, just how strong I really was.

[yeeter]

Here is the way I look at it:

I want my kids to have the best care and upbringing possible.  Me being there is a part of it, I genuinely believe they are better off with me in their lives on a daily basis.

BUT.  I am not doing is 'for them'.  I am doing his, 'for me'.  Because it's important to me that my children have a positive upbringing.

I'm trying to phrase this accurately and not sure I'm doing it justice.  But it's not about me sacrificing for their sake.  It's about me making the decision to be the best father I know how, which is important to me.  (and which by definition includes self care as an individual)

[Louise7777]

Sorry to focus on this again, but are YOU on therapy? Cz ur wife has changed therapists 5 or 6 times... .   But what about u? 

[casey1099]

Boy do I hear you! These are nearly impossible, non -reciprocal relationships. Anything "normal"... . discussing problems, conflicts, feelings... . is a mine field with no solutions. I guess the bottom line here is we are dealing with people with a serious mental illness, as serious as someone with no legs or paralyzed. Our decision is how to proceed. I am in a relationship but still weighing how much I can deal with. No matter how deep the love, I am also asking why I would commit to this... .   a life of an completely unequal relationship to say the least. In any event, know that everyone here is standing right beside you.

[SheChangedMe]

I have spoken with 3 therapists myself and 2 others with her. Her therapists always tell her that she has situational depression and there's nothing wrong with how she acts. Really?  This is when I feel my most alone. My therapists have all diagnosed her without even meeting her. Does she not tell her therapist the truth about her behavior?

My kids look at me as the big mean guy who makes mom upset. So naturally they pull back from me. It's so frustrating and confusing and lonely and depressing. As I type this I am sitting in a parking lot while she's driving around looking for me to scream at. I'm a prisoner of life. I've slept in my car more than once to avoid a public confrontation.

This is why I just feel its easier to just give in and let her win.

[VeryFree]

Does she not tell her therapist the truth about her behavior?

No, she doesn’t. She manipulates them, like she manipulates the whole world.

Well, I’m certain that is/was the case in my marriage. She wouldn’t let me near her T’s on a regular basis. The few time I could be there, I felt the eyes of the T’s opened up a bit. Mind you: on that rare occassions I tried to not bring any harm to my stbxw, so I didn’t open up completely. She closed down on that sessions completely: started crying after 5 minutes and not speaking another word.

Interesting thought now I’m writing this: she hasn’t kept a T, that spoke to me intensively…

[slimmiller]

Here is the way I look at it:

I want my kids to have the best care and upbringing possible.  Me being there is a part of it, I genuinely believe they are better off with me in their lives on a daily basis.

BUT.  I am not doing is 'for them'.  I am doing his, 'for me'.  Because it's important to me that my children have a positive upbringing.

I'm trying to phrase this accurately and not sure I'm doing it justice.  But it's not about me sacrificing for their sake.  It's about me making the decision to be the best father I know how, which is important to me.  (and which by definition includes self care as an individual)

I think honestly my exBPD at times even questions how I can take this view on raising my kids. It is the reason I allow her to get away with the crap she does because like you said, its all about the kids. For me also its about me being a parent and doing the best I can. mine says she puts the kids first (she truly believes she is a good parent) but in reality, nothing is further from the truth. She lies to the kids daily if not hourly and has lost all her integrity with them.

It goes back to how I was raised for one. I come from an Amish background where family is paramount and no one ever even questions wether you take on the responsibility as a parent.

Which always reminds me of the fact that they choose 'us' (nons) because we do have decency and they depend us on excercising that decency because most folks would not be able to stomach their crap... .

[Louise7777]

Hi SheChangedMe.

How are you doing? I feel sorry for you, seems you cant have a moment of peace.

They lie at their T and manipulate them to be seen as victims. Actually, they manipulate everybody. I advice you to read more abt BPDs and how to deal with them. Im not surprised she changed so much Ts, the moment she hears something she doesnt like, next T!

I still believe the best for you is to get info abt BPD and then taking care of yourself. We understand you care a lot for ur kids, but I believe you are not helping them as u think. Take a step back and empower urself. Then you will be in condition to help them.

Maybe others who are here for longer may say it in a beter way, but basically thats what you have to do. Your intentions are great, but they wont lead you to the goal you expect... .