Do you love your parents?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Do I LOVE my mother?  I have really, really searched my heart, mind, and soul for the answer to this question for months.  That answer is no.  There are some mixed, jumbled feelings.  I care for her but I do not love her.  Some days I hate her.  Other days I feel sorry for her.   And then there are the days that I sit there scratching my head trying my darnedest to figure out what in the world she is doing.  I tell her I love her, but it is an empty.  

To love someone... . That is when their smile brightens a part of your day, their tears cause your own heart to break, and literally you love them so much sometimes your heart aches.  This is how I feel about my son, my husband, and my father.  They do not rule my emotions, they heighten them.

But my mother?  Nope, it just isn't there.  My new T told me "Well she is your mother, you have to love her?"  I felt like I was a the most horrible monster on the face of the planet when I flatly answered "No".  I'm not a monster.  I am a product of my mother's creation though I fight like hell to be me.  She smothered that love a long time ago.  If I was incapable of loving anyone then I would question my sanity.  But I can love.  The pain she has inflicted on me over the years is proof that I loved her once or that pain never would have existed.  

When I look at my father I think there is a man who would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it.  There is a man who is just as broken and battered as I am, though probably worse.  There is a man I enjoy spending time with and one day I will miss him with all my heart.  He is my father and I am proud to be his daughter.  I may be a product of mother's creation but I have enough steel in me that I am definitely my Daddy's girl.  

[Nalyd]

Do I LOVE my mother?  I have really, really searched my heart, mind, and soul for the answer to this question for months.  That answer is no.  There are some mixed, jumbled feelings.  I care for her but I do not love her.  Some days I hate her.  Other days I feel sorry for her.   And then there are the days that I sit there scratching my head trying my darnedest to figure out what in the world she is doing.  I tell her I love her, but it is an empty.  

To love someone... . That is when their smile brightens a part of your day, their tears cause your own heart to break, and literally you love them so much sometimes your heart aches.  This is how I feel about my son, my husband, and my father.  They do not rule my emotions, they heighten them.

But my mother?  Nope, it just isn't there.  My new T told me "Well she is your mother, you have to love her?"  I felt like I was a the most horrible monster on the face of the planet when I flatly answered "No".  I'm not a monster.  I am a product of my mother's creation though I fight like hell to be me.  She smothered that love a long time ago.  If I was incapable of loving anyone then I would question my sanity.  But I can love.  The pain she has inflicted on me over the years is proof that I loved her once or that pain never would have existed.  

When I look at my father I think there is a man who would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it.  There is a man who is just as broken and battered as I am, though probably worse.  There is a man I enjoy spending time with and one day I will miss him with all my heart.  He is my father and I am proud to be his daughter.  I may be a product of mother's creation but I have enough steel in me that I am definitely my Daddy's girl.  

[DigitalGhost]

Do I love my mother?  I honestly don't think so.  Sometimes I think I mistake obligation for "love" -- it's so hard to get away and free oneself from those ingrained thoughts that you HAVE to love your parents simply because they ARE your parents. 

If I think about love in general -- for me, it goes hand-in-hand with respect, caring, trust, liking that person -- and I just don't feel that for my mother.  I feel those things for my fiance, whom I love.  And for the friends I have that I love.  But my mother? No.  One can only be beaten down so much before you lose all of those things -- respect, care, trust etc.  I am sure at one point I did really love her but I had to free myself from her web.

The whole discussion reminds me of girl-friends I've had/have who are in bad relationships with men. "Oh but I loove him" they'll say and I ask, "How can you love someone whom you don't trust, don't respect, are afraid of etc etc?"  To me, that's not love -- co-dependence, fear of being alone, wishful thinking maybe but NOT love.  Love should be something that makes you stronger and better, not fill you with dread and despair and self-loathing. 

And Nalyd -- I'm so sorry you T said that to you and made you feel bad for being honest.  I don't think that we are obliged to love anyone, regardless of their relationship to us.

[justrealized]

Allow me to add mine to the pile:  No I don't love my mother.

This is a question I was pondering a couple of years ago when she was acting out horribly and I was considering NC, which I have now done for about 2 years and I'm fine with it.

At the time I realized that at that moment, no I didn't love her.  However on closer reflection later on, I realized I probably hadn't loved her since sometime in my childhood, maybe between age 5 and 10.  ( A clue is one of my fondest childhood memories,  she was away in the hospital for a couple of weeks for a minor, not life threatening surgery, and my dad stayed home from work to take care of me and my brother.  It was such a pleasant , happy relaxed time.  Just with her not being there.  Coming home from school, watching cartoons, doing homework, nothing special, but happy and relaxed. )

The trouble is , friends you talk to, even a lot of therapists cannot fathom that its OK or desirable or even possible for you to have no love for your mother. Friends who have problems with their relatively normal parents, ie arguments, neuroses, bad habits, bad communication, they think that's what you're talking about.  They don't get it, because it's just out of their realm of experience,  but they don't know that some other kind of experience exists, and the less sophisticated people are quite judgemental about it.   "But she's you're mother... ."

To you it sounds like some abstract mantra.

But to them , they think its just basic common sense, like believing in gravity.

Basically, the mother child connection has to be made properly within the first two years, or it isn't going to happen. This is even before we get into the various styles and levels of dysfunction that we experience with a BPD mother.

Of course you don't realize that, when you're growing up, because you're a child, and the outside world doesn't get it, unless they've had the same thing happen to them.

The bottom line is, if you reflect, and realize that you don't love your mother, there is nothing to be ashamed of, and you do not need to feel inferior to anyone.

And obviously its not like you can't experience or feel love, because you do, for other people.

So if you keep asking yourself "do I love my mother?"  you probably don't.  But there's nothing wrong with that. 

[nevermore]

My mother is a clear thinking, high functioning cruel mean manipulative non loving BP mother. I do not love her. I feel nothing. My father was an abusive enmeshed father. He lost his memory and I grew to love him. He died. I am very clear about how I feel about them.

[Violetta]

People with regular run of the mill parents, not even the best parents in the world, know they love their parents because... .they feel love for them. Just like you do for your fiance, I do for my husband and daughter. You just do. You could break it down, but you don't have to. It's just there, even if mixed with other feelings. We're all worthy of love--even the drug addicts, even the BPDs. But it's too much to ask the person who has been abused to be the one to love that particular abuser.

Nailed it.

I've never loved my mom. I never had a chance to. My earliest memories are of her cruelty. Even if I had the ability to force myself to love her, I would choose not to. She doesn't deserve it.

It's not that a person should have to "earn" love. But in order to be loved, they do have a responsibility to refrain from doing things that earn them hate. You can't just do whatever you want to people, dump whatever cruelty and ugliness overflows out of you onto them, and expect to be entitled to their love and to relationships with them. And yet that is what BPD parents do. That treatment will form who that child is, and stay with them all their life.

If society thinks that I have an obligation to love my mother, but turns its eyes away from the greater taboo of child abuse, then it can kiss my a--.

I was extremely lucky, as a teenager, to stumble across certain philosophies and pieces of writing that emphasized the importance of honesty, integrity, and fair treatment of people. They really taught me something my upbringing hadn't--that it is alright to not give people things that those people don't deserve, and haven't earned, even when they're demanding them from you with guilt and tradition. It really helped me see clearly that there would be other people in my life who deserved my love far more than my mom did. And there have been.

Some relationships just fail, through no fault of our own. In some rare occasions, that relationship is the parent-child one. That's us!

I don't know what it is like to love a parent, because my parents cheated me of that opportunity. It sucks, but I don't hold myself responsible for figuring it out--and certainly not for justifying it to clueless outsiders or (lord have mercy) judgmental therapists. I know what love feels like, and so do you. That's the point of life--sharing love, learning more about it, embracing it and helping it grow, to everyone's benefit. There's no obligation to do that learning with certain particular people or relationships.

Justrealized said:

"But she's you're mother... ." To you it sounds like some abstract mantra. But to them , they think its just basic common sense, like believing in gravity.

That's exactly how I feel. Sometimes I feel like I'm from another planet as people who talk like this. But I've learned to just let it go, as an irreconciliable "cultural" difference. I can still be close to people who feel this way about their parents. But I am closer to friends who have had at least one abusive relative that they've overcome. They've been there.

"Basically, the mother child connection has to be made properly within the first two years, or it isn't going to happen. This is even before we get into the various styles and levels of dysfunction that we experience with a BPD mother."

That's oddly comforting to hear. Kind of makes me feel relieved--reinforces the relief I felt at recently giving up hope of "saving" my relationship with my mom. She was responsible for our relationship, the first two years of my life. She messed it up, trying to mold me into a little handmaiden. I owe her nothing.

"The bottom line is, if you reflect, and realize that you don't love your mother, there is nothing to be ashamed of, and you do not need to feel inferior to anyone. And obviously its not like you can't experience or feel love, because you do, for other people. So if you keep asking yourself "do I love my mother?"  you probably don't.  But there's nothing wrong with that."

Perfectly said. Helpful to me as well. Thanks.

Hope everyone has a good holiday. I will be thinking of you all and sending you the most comforting energy I can muster up!  

[methinkso]

I have residual fog that I love my mother. I do not love my mother. Love is a feeling. Where I used to be ambivalant, I have nothing but pure hatred for her. I had hoped I could become unfeeling about her, but the pain is still here, worse than ever.

This might be a little eye opening for some. I am very freudian.

When I was twelve, I'd had extreme emotional abuse at mother's hands since I was 5. The worst was 7 through 10.

I started having anxiety attacks then. I semi-consciously later came to believe that the anxiety attacks were caused by my fear that she would kill me if she could legally get away with it. My hating her was an intolerable thought as you all know.

This became an issue in my first T, even though I didn't learn of BPD until 20 yrs later. In the rohrshack (sp?) testing it became more obvious.

NOW I believe that twelve year old abused girl was having panic attacks because that girl wished her mother dead! So in a sense I was projecting and not owning my hatred of her then.

I think this is why I have never had any memory of grieving a 'loving mother'. I never have. She knocked that out of me in the crib.

She told me a couple of years ago that 'we' were all potty trained by the time we were a year old! And that aunt had her D potty trained at SIX months. That woman is a total psychological mess (even though she is a practicing clinical psychologist).

BTW, would anyone like to entertain me how one goes about potty training a 6 mo old? I can't see that is possible.

Guilt and fog is not love.

[No_Hiding_Place]

Hi folks!

First of all, a very merry Xmas to all of you!

Second of all, this post is a god-send. I started reading it last night on the couch with my fiance next to me. I was so relieved to see so many "Nope, can't and don't love my mother" responses.  I had this conversation with a friend of mine a few months back when she asked if, in the light of all my mother had done, if I still loved her. The very fact that I even paused was shocking to her, but she could understand. I think my answer was vague and non-committal, but it made me realise... .Holy crap, I don't love my own mother.

But, as you all say, this is both to be expected and completely OK. I mean, the things that have been said to us, done to us, not said to us and not done for us... .Is it any wonder? I pointed out to my fiance (who wasn't at all surprised to hear that although I adore his parents, I don't love my mother) that if I'm perfectly happy not hearing from them for months on end and PREFER it like that and in fact have a majorly averse reaction to any contact from them, does that sound like a loving relationship?

How can you love someone who has so thoroughly disrespected you, beaten you down emotionally, made you feel like you are utterly useless and unworthy, betrayed your trust a thousand times? You can't. And that's ok. It sucks for us, but it's not our deficiency that has created this.

[methinkso]

I think any of us who reach the point of thinking we don't love our mother (or other BPD relative),  must do it autonomously. That we can't be swayed but accept if we do or not. The right or wrong to it is only in ourselves.

I think it is MUCH more damaging if these feelings stay on the subconscious level.

Merry Christmas to all here (and sweet dreams tonight).  (I love this tree)

[Violetta]

I gave myself a hard time with the fact that, for me, it wasn't just that I didn't or couldn't love my mother. It is, at this point, that I WON'T love her. I won't try to make myself feel that feeling anymore. I got too used to defining "love" as something you made yourself feel, some twinge of guilty caring. A feeling of obligation and  need to prove myself constantly, to make up for the guilt I felt that my "love" was so weak and feeble. Love to me was constant guilt and overcompensation.

That carried over into, you guessed it, a very unsatisfying relationship with a man. I wasn't in love with him, but I cared for him, and I thought that was enough. Wrong. Just another mess I can ascribe to my crap relationship with my mother.

I've paid too much, for things that were not my fault; spent too much lifeblood trying to fix problems that I had no control over, and faults that I was falsely told I possessed. When I think of my mom, I feel dazed horror. I feel appalled at her as a person. Love her? I refuse to even try.

To force myself to love her would be an insult all the people who actually love me, and deserve my love back. I'd rather spend it on them, and on myself, than pour anymore of it into the black hole, never to be seen again. What a waste.

[Sasha026]

You know, now that I think about it. Hmmm. I don't know if I love my mother. I want to love my mother. I know that when I see her, I absolutely hate her. She drives me nuts. She drives everyone nuts.

Okay, I'm changing my post to read "I would love to love my mother, but I can't do it because she torments me." Does that make any sense?

[methinkso]

Yes, Sasha, that makes sense.

For many years I (and I suspect others) denied our true feelings we had about our BPD because striking out (by hating them) was just too uncomfortable for us. Intolerable actually. So we soothed ourselves by staying in the fog and guilt. That pain was less than facing our true feelings (for me, anyway).

We are not true to ourselves then and that can cause some pretty heavy inner conflict.

Maybe the day will come that society pressures parents to prove their love of their children, rather than (society) forcing children to prove love/allegiance to their parents. Now THAT would right things.

[mwbpd]

I just got the ominous warning about the thread being old  ;p  and perhaps I could start a new one... .actually, I thought some of us newbies can probably add to it.

I had a recent revelation.  No, I don't love my mother.  Wow, there, it's out.  I think of my uBPDm as a biological mother.  She only put food on my plate and roof over my head, well, not always, even that.  My mother, the one I was trying really hard to overlap over my uBPDm, the perfect one per society's standard, I buried her recently.  Now, I loved her; only she turned out to be a figment of my imagination.

I'm an orphan; I just didn't know it.

[kkriesel]

Do I love my uBPDm?  I think that I've said that I have for so long just to prove her wrong when she says that I don't love her.  I don't love her when I would rather sit in the middle of the Thanksgiving dinner table than at the end with her.  I don't love her when I want to hang out with my friends and not her.  I don't love her when she tells me not to visit and I don't visit, I don't love her when she tells me not to visit and I do visit.  For so long, I've been working to prove my love to her just to get her to stop accusing me of not loving her.

Now that I don't prioritize proving anything to her, I frankly don't know whether or not I love her.  I'm too busy trying to build a life separate from her and trying to heal from all the damage I've done to worry about that.  I'm too angry because I'm so hurt to walk down that path.

I've been NC with my dBPDf for 9 years and, when I was hurt and angry for the first couple years, I lashed out at the idea of loving him.  Then I felt nothing about him, so I figured that I didn't love him.  Now I'm in the process of forgiving and learning to acknowledge the good times with the bad, and I know that that isn't love either.  With him, I'm happy where I am.  Maybe I'll be here someday with her, too.

[LionDreamer]

I have to admit, that I too do not love my uBP mother.   During a recent illness that required life threatening surgery I couldn't even muster the energy to care if she pulled through or not - OK I cared in the global sense as you point out, I care about people who casually come into my life, but for her, not in the personal sense.   My sister sat in the hospital during the surgery and I considered being there for my sister not my mom, but ultimately I found I just couldn't be there and so I didn't go to visit until the next day.   

This does frighten me to put it out there so baldly because it has contributed to my feeling so badly damaged to my inner core that I can't love my mother.  As Sasha026 said, although I can never remember loving her, I do remember until recently very much wanting to. 

A cousin recently asked me what I would ideally between my mom and myself and my answer was that I would love her to be happy in life and as far away from me as possible.  It was the first time that I was able to verbally express some true feelings (however mild they might be) to someone from the FOO.   

And B&W thank you for pointing out how hard it is for a child to accept this and not feel trapped in a psychological maze.   

LD

[OZtoAZ]

Hi All,

I just wanted to say that I am glad you bumped this post to the "present" again, even if it was a year old.  I actually haven't been on the boards lately due to a crazy work schedule and being NC with my uBPD mother for 3 years.  

Why am I back on the boards tonight?  Well, I had to fly x-country last week for a funeral due to a death in the family.  Of course, "SHE" was there.   I fretted about what to do, how to interact with her (or not), and how to handle the situation, as she's had a smear-campaign against me for the past 37 years of my life, but worse the last 3 since I've been NC.  (I had to go NC to stop the drama!  I just couldn't take the drama and her lies, irrational thoughts, insanity, cruelty, love-hate toward me, etc.  My sanity was not worth it, nor was it worth losing the 10-year relationship I have with my fiance, as he is amazing and I know he got tired of the drama, me being upset after every phonecall, etc... )

Anyway, the few relatives in my family who DO "get it" with how she is actually became a 24/7 buffer for me!  No matter where I went, sat, ate, walked, stood, etc... .at least ONE family member (or my fiance) ensured they were by my side the whole time.  That way "She" couldn't corner me alone (and believe me, she tried!).  Of course, she is off telling the world how awful I am to her again (we barely interacted, and when we had to, for the sake of the funeral, I was cordial but brief.).  

The reason why I loved that you brought this thread back to the surface is that I really DO realize that I do not love my mother.  I have some sentimental pangs over the occasional things she did that were nice over the years (though I later realized that most had many invisible strings that she'll point out at every opportunity).   I looked around the room, interacted with other relatives that are "sane," and realized how much I genuinely CARED about them--and them for me!  You REALLY know love when your fiance and a couple of close relatives will actually be a physical BUFFER for you, 24/7 for 5 straight days so that you do not have to encounter your mother without a witness!

I really can tell those who love me---those who know the WHOLE STORY (both sides) and can literally say, "Yep--she's crazy!"  And I love those folks right back with all my heart.  I couldn't muster one twinge of that same feeling for my mother after all of her BS, drama, lies, manipulations, phony-ness, etc... .

I am learning (slowly, with difficulty) to live with the lies she spreads about me to her friends who still take what she says as gospel----that's the hardest part for me, as I do care deeply about my reputation... .but I will just have to cope and adjust, right?  As my close friends have said, "What people think about you is none of your business!"    They also say, "Those closest to you "get it" and the rest of the folks don't matter."

Here's hoping... .

And thanks for the wonderful discussion on this particular thread I posted.  I hope it continues to help people!  It sure has for me!

[poodlemom]

The scariest thing I have ever done, was admit to myself that I "do not" love my mother.  I think I knew it for a long time but just couldn't actually make myself admit it.  It's so unnatural... .

[AmeliaGrace]

I am new to this website, and when I found this message board I felt relief.  No one understands why I don't love my father, why I don't call him, why I don't tell him about my life.  My father has been emotionally and physically abusive to me and every other member of my family.  I don't love him, and if he every followed through on one of his many threats of suicide, I think I would feel relieved.

I feel like a terrible person for saying this, but I fantasize about a life where he is gone.  I am slowly getting to the point where I can stop using the excuse, because he's my Dad.  I know I can never live in peace with him apart of my life, but I just don't know how to detach myself.

[spinningdoc]

I don't love him, and if he every followed through on one of his many threats of suicide, I think I would feel relieved.

I feel like a terrible person for saying this, but I fantasize about a life where he is gone.

You're not a terrible person at all, for all the reasons in the other posts. And I feel the same about my mother, quite honestly. I've learnt wariness of her - I've (finally) got my own boundaries sorted and the rest of my life is good and secure, and I know how much of her I can handle. But there's no way I'll have the kind of relationship with her that my wife has with her mother for instance, where she'll call her mother for solace or (mind boggling to me... .) pleasure.

I have no idea what loving my mother would be like, and not much more about my father - he's enmeshed, and when the chips are down he'll attack me and my sister viciously. In a way he's worse because he's not actually ill, just spineless. When they die, it'll be a release from a complicated situation, and that's pretty much it.

[tossedsalad]

Like most of those who responded, I don't feel love for my uBPD mother.

Love means mutual respect, compassion, empathy, mutual admiration, enjoyment of them for their individuality, having something in common--a bond, among many other things. I don't feel any of these things for the woman who raised me. I received none of these things from her, either. I don't know who she is, and she never bothered to find out who I was.

So, no. I don't love my mother.

[Caring For Me]

I don't love my mother.  Until two years ago I was the always the 'good daughter' - but, everything I did for her was out of obligation.  The good daughter always called, visited, hosted every family holiday and birthday.  My mother is the master manipulator - turning every family event or crisis into something all about herself... .always.  Her children could never have a problem because she would turn it into something about herself.  Demanding, selfish, a matyr, and emotional storm chaser.  She intentionally creates conflict - she repeats everything said to her to other family members causing unrelenting problems.  How can you love someone like that?

She used to tell me "I couldn't live if I thought you were mad at me?"  How manipulative is that?

She's only happy when you're giving her something, and then it's never enough.  It's never enough.  She drains the life out of people and it's hard to be in her presence for more than an hour or so.   Finally, I see her for who she really is and I feel sorry for her.  She'll never change and I know that.  So, I call her when I want to, see her when I want to, and ignore the suttle remarks about how she hasn't heard from me - she'll never give up trying to make me feel guilty.  But I'm really okay with how I feel because I care enough about myself and my husband to do what's best for me, finally.


       

[MegMurray]

I am new here and I am SO glad you resurrected this post. I do not love my parenst.  My mom has uBPD and my dad is depressed and narcissitic.  She was the perpetrator of most of the abuse.  My father just stood around and let it happen.   I loved them when I was a child, and desperately tried to do everything right to get them to love me back.  It didn't work (big surprise!).    Parents are supposed to love their children unconditionally -- something a BPD cannot do, so I do not believe that my mother loved me.  I do not believe she loves anyone, including my father.  They are just so enmeshed with each other they think it is love. 

I have a very different perspective on most people as to the idea of family and love because I am adopted.  I can tell you, with utmost certainty, that being genetically related to someone means nothing.  It is not some guarantee of caring and respect.  It just means you share some DNA.  Because I am not genetically related to anyone I know, I don't believe in any of the societal "blood is thicker than water" crap that floats around.  So it doesn't really bother me that I don't love them.  There is really no reason to, as they were such horrific parents and left me so screwed up it's taken years of therapy and medication to fix.

When my husband and I got married, I ended up very close with his parents.  They were everything mine weren't.  I felt safe around them.  They never criticized, yelled, lied, or made me feel bad or useless.  They were caring, generous, kind and thoughtful.  They acted like real parents!  I had never had that before.  They both passed away this year.  I miss them more than I ever thought I was going to.  Now I realize that I did have parents -- they just were not the people who "raised" me.  And I certainly didn't have them for enough time.  If I could trade having my in-laws back and having my parents dead I would do it in a heartbeat and not regret it.  They were my real parents.   

[mwbpd]

I have a very different perspective on most people as to the idea of family and love because I am adopted.  I can tell you, with utmost certainty, that being genetically related to someone means nothing.  It is not some guarantee of caring and respect.  It just means you share some DNA.  Because I am not genetically related to anyone I know, I don't believe in any of the societal "blood is thicker than water" crap that floats around.  So it doesn't really bother me that I don't love them.  There is really no reason to, as they were such horrific parents and left me so screwed up it's taken years of therapy and medication to fix.

I agree, just b/c you share DNA it doesn't mean that you have to care.  In parenting, good or bad, it is not the DNA that makes you a mother or father or some other relative, it is the intent; many adoptive parents will tell you that.  I believe that society conditions us on the role (i.e. mother, father) not just on the DNA bit.  Some adopted children feel a strong pull in getting to know their genetic parents, if told, even if completely happy with them which often hurts their feelings, nonetheless, due to their intent are considered the real parents.  Even courts of law have a hard time dealing with the intent vs dna in adoptions, egg donation etc issues.  The rules that society conditions us to follow are not always working on us as you are stating with the blood thicker than etc. for you; I wish I could totally break free of that one, DNA or not in the mix.  Nonetheless, the rules/values are there and when we break the norm, we get are little behinds kicked.

[Karma]

I don't love my mother.  Until two years ago I was the always the 'good daughter' - but, everything I did for her was out of obligation.  The good daughter always called, visited, hosted every family holiday and birthday.  My mother is the master manipulator - turning every family event or crisis into something all about herself... .always.  Her children could never have a problem because she would turn it into something about herself.  Demanding, selfish, a matyr, and emotional storm chaser.  She intentionally creates conflict - she repeats everything said to her to other family members causing unrelenting problems.  How can you love someone like that?

She used to tell me "I couldn't live if I thought you were mad at me?"  How manipulative is that?

 

This is my mother all over, KarrieG. When I was 18 and wanted to leave home on ammicable terms but my mother decided that all my furniture, toiletries and even clothes were hers because she paid for them. Even the clothes I'd bought myself were her's because I worked in her business on weekends and that was her money? When I did build myself up for another try with much more preparation 2 years later, I sat her down and agonised about how she would react. I calmly explained I wanted to move out of home and move back with my dad interstate as a starting off point at the end of the month (1000 kms away). She blew up into a rage telling me if I'm leaving I'm to leave right now. Then when I said ok and started packing my car she told me she would kill herself if I left her. To be honest I was very ok with that. I really hoped it wasn't just a bluff and she would do it, but just wait until I was gone.

By the way she didn't kill herself and 18 months later moved interstate and bought a house 3kms away from my dad's house! I don't think there is a day that goes by that I don't wish that that fight had put her over the edge. There isn't a bone in my body that has respect for that woman. And everytime she says her life isn't worth living it takes me right back to her threat to kill herself because of me all over again. How can a mother put that on their child? How is her happiness my responsibility?

[MotherSpirit]

Wow, great topic.

My answer changed over time.  I used to say "I love them because they are my parents.  But I don't like them."

My father, who has his own mental issues, physically abused me well into my adulthood.  I stopped feeling love for him some time in later childhood.  I still care about him and have compassion for him.  But, as someone said, I feel the same for people unrelated to me.  So, is that love?

The biggest blow for my mom and I happened about 2 years ago and that's when I figuratively felt my heart shatter into tiny pieces.  When I moved, I thought it would make things better... .for me, for her, for us.  I cried so hard when I left.  I came to visit a lot, from FOG, but never because I missed her and wanted to see her.  i would hug her and feel nothing.  I would say things to pretend I was happy to see her or whatever, just to avoid any problems.  I felt anxious before leaving again every time I visited because I felt guilty about leaving her and was afraid of an outburst.  But, not because I was going to miss her.

So, is that love?

I don't think so.  I think there's a yearning to love her and be loved by her, but my heart doesn't ache to be with her and my eyes do not cry from not seeing her.  Like others have said, some days I hate her, other times I just feel sorry for her and pity her and sometimes feel guilty for leaving.  Sometimes I remember the good times and I feel sad that I see the bad so much more, or wonder how real they were or tell myself "well, she's not all that bad... .she does have good in her." I wonder how much of her IS good and capable of loving.  It honestly makes me sad.  I am her only daughter and she my only mother and she will never know what it's like to have a good, healthy loving relationship with me until she decides to get help.

[OZtoAZ]

Wow, great topic.

The biggest blow for my mom and I happened about 2 years ago and that's when I figuratively felt my heart shatter into tiny pieces.  When I moved, I thought it would make things better... .for me, for her, for us.  I cried so hard when I left.  I came to visit a lot, from FOG, but never because I missed her and wanted to see her.  i would hug her and feel nothing.  I would say things to pretend I was happy to see her or whatever, just to avoid any problems.  I felt anxious before leaving again every time I visited because I felt guilty about leaving her and was afraid of an outburst.  But, not because I was going to miss her.

So, is that love?

I don't think so.  I think there's a yearning to love her and be loved by her, but my heart doesn't ache to be with her and my eyes do not cry from not seeing her.  Like others have said, some days I hate her, other times I just feel sorry for her and pity her and sometimes feel guilty for leaving.  Sometimes I remember the good times and I feel sad that I see the bad so much more, or wonder how real they were or tell myself "well, she's not all that bad... .she does have good in her." I wonder how much of her IS good and capable of loving.  It honestly makes me sad.  I am her only daughter and she my only mother and she will never know what it's like to have a good, healthy loving relationship with me until she decides to get help.

First of all MotherSpirit, I am sorry that you've had such a struggle with your mother and your relationship with her as well.  It's a pity any of us have to be on these boards because of what we've endured growing up and into adulthood.

That said... .I LOVE what you wrote!  It is SOO true and is reflective of how I've felt as well.  (I started this post ages ago).  Your post is so akin to how I've felt--you hit the nail on the head.  I feel the exact same way---right down to the very last sentence you wrote.

[BMama]

Okay, I'm changing my post to read "I would love to love my mother, but I can't do it because she torments me." Does that make any sense?

That makes perfect sense. 

[finally]

I agree B&W.

Do I LOVE my mother?  I have really, really searched my heart, mind, and soul for the answer to this question for months.  That answer is no.  There are some mixed, jumbled feelings.  I care for her but I do not love her.  Some days I hate her.  Other days I feel sorry for her.   And then there are the days that I sit there scratching my head trying my darnedest to figure out what in the world she is doing.  I tell her I love her, but it is an empty. 

To love someone... .  That is when their smile brightens a part of your day, their tears cause your own heart to break, and literally you love them so much sometimes your heart aches.  This is how I feel about my son, my husband, and my father.  They do not rule my emotions, they heighten them.

But my mother?  Nope, it just isn't there.  My new T told me "Well she is your mother, you have to love her?"  I felt like I was a the most horrible monster on the face of the planet when I flatly answered "No".  I'm not a monster.  I am a product of my mother's creation though I fight like hell to be me.  She smothered that love a long time ago.  If I was incapable of loving anyone then I would question my sanity.  But I can love.  The pain she has inflicted on me over the years is proof that I loved her once or that pain never would have existed. 

When I look at my father I think there is a man who would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it.  There is a man who is just as broken and battered as I am, though probably worse.  There is a man I enjoy spending time with and one day I will miss him with all my heart.  He is my father and I am proud to be his daughter.  I may be a product of mother's creation but I have enough steel in me that I am definitely my Daddy's girl. 

[sollycat]

Sometimes I wonder if life would just be easier if she would pass away.  I don't wish death on my mom, actually I wish a long, healthy, happy life for her but I know that is never going to happen so I just wonder would life be easier for my sister and I if she was gone.

This is my deepest, darkest thought and feeling. It's one that wakes me with a jolt in the middle of the night, or worse, prevents me from falling asleep at all. When it creeps into my mind, my heart skips a beat and I can't breathe. I wait for the lightning bolt to strike me down for the mere thought of my mother dying and how it would be so much easier on my family.

I haven't been on this board in a while because I thought I was coping pretty well but I had a breakdown last night after a particularly challenging phone conversation with her. I moved 1,000 miles away from her, thinking it was far enough. But just a few minutes on the phone will send me spiraling back to the trenches of hell where I survived (somehow) for many years.

I went NC for 2 glorious years (2009 to 2011) to the disgust of my brothers. I only broke the NC b/c younger brother was getting married and I desperately wanted him to have a peaceful day with a "normal" family. I have stayed in contact, cautiously, for the past 2 years but am now questioning the longevity of that. Even the once-a-week guilt-driven required phone call home every Sunday fills me with dread and ruins me for hours afterwards. Last night's conversation may ruin my whole week.

Do I love my mother? No, I don't. And I haven't for a long time. I mourned the loss of her in 2009 when I went NC. I went through all stages of grief as if she had died, as if I had cared. I sobbed in the arms of my husband and my therapist, mourning the loss of the Mother I never had.

I do not love my Mother. There are only a select few people that I can say that out loud to. When I think that thought, and the one about wishing she were dead, I come here to absorb the support of you fine folks. This forum has saved my sanity more times than I can count.

I do not love my Mother. I do not love my Mother. I do not love my Mother.

[Human]

... . I realized I probably hadn't loved her since sometime in my childhood, maybe between age 5 and 10.  ( A clue is one of my fondest childhood memories,  she was away in the hospital for a couple of weeks for a minor, not life threatening surgery, and my dad stayed home from work to take care of me and my brother.  It was such a pleasant , happy relaxed time.  Just with her not being there.  Coming home from school, watching cartoons, doing homework, nothing special, but happy and relaxed. )

The trouble is , friends you talk to, even a lot of therapists cannot fathom that its OK or desirable or even possible for you to have no love for your mother. Friends who have problems with their relatively normal parents, ie arguments, neuroses, bad habits, bad communication, they think that's what you're talking about.  They don't get it, because it's just out of their realm of experience,  but they don't know that some other kind of experience exists, and the less sophisticated people are quite judgemental about it.   "But she's you're mother... . "

To you it sounds like some abstract mantra.

But to them , they think its just basic common sense, like believing in gravity.

Basically, the mother child connection has to be made properly within the first two years, or it isn't going to happen. This is even before we get into the various styles and levels of dysfunction that we experience with a BPD mother.

Of course you don't realize that, when you're growing up, because you're a child, and the outside world doesn't get it, unless they've had the same thing happen to them. 

I'm glad this old thread was resurrected, just so I could read this. You expressed this so well.

[BlueCat]

I don't think I do anymore  I know I've answered this question before and the answer was different but now things have changed.

My mother is now part of a smear campaign against me and has involved my inlaws, really screwing up that relationship and hurting my husband in the process.

I don't hate her. I still feel sorry for her and my sister. I know they are hurting, I know they were both really messed up as children and I know why they are the way they are as adults. I wish they would get help. I wish they would get better and find some peace in life. 

But I read this question and my first thought was that I don't think I do love my mother or my sister anymore

They've just hurt me too much.

Ditto on thanks for resurrecting this. It's a tough topic that truly is taboo in the general public but I think it's a good one to be able to talk about.