Can't force it

[musicfan42]

I'm just thinking about my exBPD and I'm realising that I can't force it... . I can't force myself to care about him because I don't.

I saw a lot of warning signs in the relationship from the get-go:

*he had the BPD diagnosis and various other mental health issues so I knew that was a bad sign from the start as far as I was concerned

*he had baggage in his life and I knew that'd be an issue if the relationship got serious... .

I saw him comforting this girl and I felt jealous of that-I wanted him to comfort me, not her. I wanted that attention... . so I definitely worked to get his attention and I did... . he listened to what I had to say, I felt soothed and that was fine. But then when he started talking about his own problems, I realised that they were of a more severe nature than any of my concerns and that I couldn't relate to any of them, I lost interest... . I just thought "god you're a mess aren't you". I tried to do that [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation[/b][/url] thing but my heart wasn't in it and he knew that... . saw right through me... . . I felt a bit guilty for not caring more... . and I felt very angry with him for criticising me but I just can't force myself to care about him. I think now that he sensed my interest withdrawing from him and maybe he felt rejected... . he was always telling me that he felt abandoned... . I wasn't actually abandoning him at the time but I certainly had question marks over the relationship... . I just sometimes wonder now whether borderlines are accurate about this "abandonment" lark... . I'm not saying that they're justified in acting crazy when they feel abandoned but it's like they're finely tuned into sensing when someone is losing interest in them or something... .

Can anyone relate to this?

[Validation78]

Hey MusicFan!

Are you still feeling guilty for ending the relationship? If so, why?

Sounds to me like you heeded the warning, and ending things before you got sucked into a no win situation! I'll bet I could name a hundred people who wish they had listened to their gut instincts like you did!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[musicfan42]

No, I don't feel guilty. I just felt like "he thinks I'm a bhit... . am I?" and that's what was bugging me really... . Yesterday, I just realised that he really didn't want to be abandoned at the time (I dumped him) but that he couldn't force me to stay... . he couldn't force me to care about all his issues. I thought the abandonment issue was annoying because everyone gets rejected in life-it was just his turn this time... . it's just life really and he should just toughen up and get used to it. Lol, that probably sounds harsh but it's the truth... . it happens to everyone yet I think that borderlines have this kind of entitlement, as if it's not supposed to happen to them... . just everyone else... .

[caughtnreleased]

Lol, that probably sounds harsh but it's the truth... . it happens to everyone yet I think that borderlines have this kind of entitlement, as if it's not supposed to happen to them... . just everyone else... .

Yeah... . I think they do think of themselves as "special" and needing to be treated different than everyone else. 

As regards to finely tuned, I found my BPDex to be very finely tuned to my mood and feelings... . and constantly trying to read into what I was saying, and not just with regards to abandonment.  He could feel stress in my body, and sometimes I noticed him attentively trying to read my facial expressions and listen for any anger or stress in my voice. I think he was looking for possible hints of abandonment, but also for ways create conflict, and this type of hyper-attention was maybe him looking for my triggers so he could push my buttons. I never showed him my triggers though, or responded to his taunts.

[musicfan42]

unhooking-that's exactly what I mean... . How long were you with your BPDex if you mind me asking? I'm just wondering how you never showed him any triggers or responded to any of his taunts?

[caughtnreleased]

We were together for about 2 months... . but back and forth for about another two months (the whole time he was either sleeping with or trying to sleep with others).  He was a mess, I felt sorry for him, but I established some firm boundaries, and broke it off/established space after two months.  It was a semi-breakup really. Like: the things you've told me about yourself are giving me panic attacks. I need space. 

While I did feel a very strong emotional bond, I was also aware that he would look for conflict so I was careful.  I've also been in a long process of recovering from highly conflictual relationships and for over a year now have been working on my "triggers", mostly through meditation.

Instead of losing it on him, I took space to process internally all the things that did trigger me (and while I was aware of certain triggers, he showed me a heck of a lot more).  As a result of my taking this space, he went and found someone else.

[musicfan42]

unlooking-oh that was really smart of you... . to seek space when you felt triggered. I tried to do that however I just had this unbelievable urge to fight him and win! I felt really angry around him. I felt like he took the worst out in me. I've heard from other people that meditation is very effective-I know a few mindfulness exercises but I haven't practiced any of them in ages. I keep putting it off and then it never happens.

Yes, my exBPD was compulsive about sex and rebounded with another woman soon after I dumped him. I felt sorry for my exBPD because of his bad childhood but after a while, I just felt like he was using his bad childhood as an excuse instead of actually improving his life.

[caughtnreleased]

Hey Musicfan, it sounds like you reacted really well. It does seem that people with BPD will do anything to try and suck people into their misery, and you didn't let that happen.  And instead expected him to act like an adult who takes responsibility for his actions. I think that's a good thing.

I got really into meditation about a year before I met my BPDex, and was so glad to have this tool when I met him.  Whenever I felt triggered I processed it through meditation... . it helped a lot.  But, he kept upping the ante, and I realized how one sided the relationship actually was.  Whenever I finished processing one horrible thing he'd unloaded on me, he'd reveal something else that was equally or more awful.  It felt like a parent/child or therapist/patient relationship and I understood there was no room for me and my needs in there... . only him.   I guess since I didn't lose it on him and he kept upping the ante I saw more clearly (because I didn't have the guilt associated with lashing out) and realized how hopeless the situation actually was.

There were a lot of signs and indications that he wanted help, might be open to therapy etc. which kept me hoping.  I gave him all the information he needed to get some of the best help he could get.  Instead, he found another host (girl) and told me he was so glad he hadn't gone for therapy because his life was all back on track... . blah, blah, blah!   They use a lot of excuses to avoid actually changing and going to therapy.  This is the one thing I still don't understand about my ex. He knew he had BPD, he knew his cycles, he knew it all, and had lost so much in his life, AND he knew it would all happen again... . and yet could only continue with his familiar patterns. 

[LetItBe]

Hey Musicfan, it sounds like you reacted really well. It does seem that people with BPD will do anything to try and suck people into their misery, and you didn't let that happen.  And instead expected him to act like an adult who takes responsibility for his actions. I think that's a good thing.

I got really into meditation about a year before I met my BPDex, and was so glad to have this tool when I met him.  Whenever I felt triggered I processed it through meditation... . it helped a lot.  But, he kept upping the ante, and I realized how one sided the relationship actually was.  Whenever I finished processing one horrible thing he'd unloaded on me, he'd reveal something else that was equally or more awful.  It felt like a parent/child or therapist/patient relationship and I understood there was no room for me and my needs in there... . only him.   I guess since I didn't lose it on him and he kept upping the ante I saw more clearly (because I didn't have the guilt associated with lashing out) and realized how hopeless the situation actually was.

There were a lot of signs and indications that he wanted help, might be open to therapy etc. which kept me hoping.  I gave him all the information he needed to get some of the best help he could get.  Instead, he found another host (girl) and told me he was so glad he hadn't gone for therapy because his life was all back on track... . blah, blah, blah!   They use a lot of excuses to avoid actually changing and going to therapy.  This is the one thing I still don't understand about my ex. He knew he had BPD, he knew his cycles, he knew it all, and had lost so much in his life, AND he knew it would all happen again... . and yet could only continue with his familiar patterns.  

I agree.  Musicfan, you handled things very well.  Good for you for having boundaries and sticking up for yourself!  I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping his responsibilities where they belong -- firmly on his shoulders.  

I have heard that pwBPD do have a very finely tuned radar and can sense insincere validation and also imminent rejection.  They can also imagine rejection and question your intentions no matter how kind and loyal you are.

My uBPDxbf revealed some things pretty early on that were   , like the fact the was admitted to an inpatient psych ward as a teen, and he also showed me his numerous, major scars from the self-harming he used to do.  No longer did he cut himself, though (but he sometimes drank A LOT -- until we got together -- then he didn't drink much and also quit smoking).  He talked about how far he'd come.  He'd been in T for 10 years and was really working on getting better.  I believe in the abilities of people to heal, so I proceeded to keep falling more in love with him.  Over time, he revealed more and more serious .

Part of my healing from our first break-up entailed mindfulness meditation classes.  I really got a lot out of that -- and still went back to him a second time.  I thought it would be okay now that my eyes were wide open, and we both seemed to have more tools than before.  We'd both really taken the time to work on ourselves.  When I'd start to feel a charge about something, I was much more able to process it through taking a step back and meditating.  So, I wasn't as reactive as before.  He began meditating, too, and he could take a step back, collect himself a bit, then have a mature, adult conversation to find resolutions, but, after a delay -- he'd completely dysregulate and tell me he couldn't remember what we said and tell me he felt like I was trying to trick him.

He was quite self-aware and had even mentioned "his disorders," although he never discussed his exact diagnosis with me.  He was able to identify how his thoughts went haywire and how it was his imagination that people had awful intentions toward him, how he was tired of letting fear keep him from having what he wanted, so that gave me hope, but just like before, he began pushing me away after we got close and imagining I had all these intentions of trying to "trick him."  He became severely dysregulated after I enforced a boundary and didn't seem to fully recover from it.  Instead of seeking help from his T on a more frequent basis, he decreased his visits to every few weeks and also decreased his other self-care activities.  

It's not easy for them (or anyone) to change, and from what I've read, there is a strong rigidity that is part of the disorder.  Even though my ex was tired of fear stopping him from having what he wanted, and he could identify his patterns, he couldn't stop that freight train once it started, even after 10 years of therapy.

[musicfan42]

thanks guys for your kind responses

unhooking-It's good that you were able to process your triggers in a calm way and that you didn't blame yourself for his behaviour. I know exactly what you mean by feeling guilty for having lashed out!

My BPDex was at therapy but he wasn't making any progress in it. He viewed me as a therapist/mother figure too. I felt he was in the wrong kind of therapy so I gave him info on different types of treatments for BPD. He wasn't open to pursuing any of those options so I knew at that point that I couldn't do anymore.

You mention that your BPD ex was self-aware yet didn't change his behaviour and that you didn't understand this. Well, borderlines are stubborn so if they don't want to do something, they won't do it... . they just get an idea into their head and that's it... . they run with it. They don't stop to reflect and ask themselves whether their thoughts are actually logical or not. My BPD ex wasn't always compliant with his medication for example so obviously that made him a difficult patient to deal with. He would consider my ideas initially but eventually come to the conclusion that he was right all along   and that I was wrong of course... .  

My BPD ex didn't like me challenging his behaviour so he moved onto another woman who wouldn't challenge him. His therapist didn't seem to challenge him a whole lot so I did feel like he was deliberately selecting people that would feel sorry for him.


nongf-The red flag symbol is so cute btw!

Yes, my BPD ex used to drink a lot too but cut alcohol out because he knew that he had a problem.

I don't know if I would be able to deal with a former self-harmer. Self-injury is something that really frightens me. It's good that your ex recovered from self-injury though because I've read that it is like an addiction for its sufferers.

Yeah... . I think it's one thing knowing logically that you're doing something wrong and then it's another thing to actually stop it in the heat of the moment-borderlines are very impulsive so once they feel something, they tend to just run with it instead of trying to slow down. It's good that he was willing to do mindfulness meditation along with you however you're right in that there is a strong rigidity that is part of the disorder.

I think that mindfulness meditation would be helpful for a pwBPD but borderlines have so many issues... .

I'm not so sure if people really have the ability to heal or at least, I think there are limitations on it. I know what my issues are so I work on them but the minute I stop working on them, I just go back to square one. I don't think I'm ever really "healed". It's more that I have to keep taking the medicine almost-that I have to keep using certain coping skills in my life... . that it's more about symptom reduction than cure almost. And I think that the same applies for BPD. I don't think it's ever "gone"-I think it's more just about keeping it at bay really... . that it's more like a virus than anything really... . that it can hide in the body and then strike back at any time again so the person has to be extra vigilant of it. I know my response is probably a bit negative-I know that everyone wants a magic wand to all of these things but it all takes a lot of hard work really.

[LetItBe]

My BPD ex didn't like me challenging his behaviour so he moved onto another woman who wouldn't challenge him. His therapist didn't seem to challenge him a whole lot so I did feel like he was deliberately selecting people that would feel sorry for him.

I don't know if I would be able to deal with a former self-harmer. Self-injury is something that really frightens me. It's good that your ex recovered from self-injury though because I've read that it is like an addiction for its sufferers.

Yeah... . I think it's one thing knowing logically that you're doing something wrong and then it's another thing to actually stop it in the heat of the moment-borderlines are very impulsive so once they feel something, they tend to just run with it instead of trying to slow down. It's good that he was willing to do mindfulness meditation along with you however you're right in that there is a strong rigidity that is part of the disorder.

I think that mindfulness meditation would be helpful for a pwBPD but borderlines have so many issues... .

My uBPDxbf couldn't stand to be challenged, either, and he'd interpret just about anything as judgment and criticism.  In fact, when I was first trying to understand more about him, I started by Googling "feels judged and criticized."  

It doesn't seem that my ex's T challenged him much, either.  He once mentioned that he was really curious about how once I was in his life, he was able to just immediately stop smoking, drastically reduce his drinking, start meditating, and practice other methods of self-care just like me.  From what he said, it sounded like she just offered something very positive, "You're really good at x, y, z... . "  It didn't sound like he had any real understanding of why he was mirroring me.

I'd never encountered someone who admitted self-harming before.  I was hooked pretty quickly (my plan is to be slower and more discerning in the future), and I rationalized it away since he hadn't done it in about 20 years.  He was very compelling to me, and I was very gullible.  While I do feel compassion for people that self-harm, if I ever encounter this in a potential mate in the future, I will run the other way.  I can't go through this again.

As I'm sure you know, mindfulness is a component of DBT.  I have a friend who is a DBT therapist and says she's seen pwBPD go on to lead "happy, fulfilling lives."  I am skeptical if those lives include mutually fulfilling romantic r/s's, though.

Again, I admire your ability to see things clearly with your ex and keep yourself from becoming enmeshed like a lot of us here did.  You offered your understanding and a menu of options to help himself, and he refused.  I, too, gave my ex opportunities to take responsibility for his actions, no longer trying to fix things for him, and that's when it ended.  It turned out I was the one holding it together the entire time with my rescuer tendencies.  He has no real ability to compromise without resentment or participate in the asking and giving that is part of a healthy r/s.

[LetItBe]

I saw him comforting this girl and I felt jealous of that-I wanted him to comfort me, not her. I wanted that attention... .

This exact same thing happened toward the end of our r/s.  She was hanging all over him while seeking his comfort and attention for most of the evening, leaving no room for me by his side.  I knew that was something I couldn't tolerate again.

[jonnyz]

thanks guys for your kind responses

unhooking-It's good that you were able to process your triggers in a calm way and that you didn't blame yourself for his behaviour. I know exactly what you mean by feeling guilty for having lashed out!

My BPDex was at therapy but he wasn't making any progress in it. He viewed me as a therapist/mother figure too. I felt he was in the wrong kind of therapy so I gave him info on different types of treatments for BPD. He wasn't open to pursuing any of those options so I knew at that point that I couldn't do anymore.

You mention that your BPD ex was self-aware yet didn't change his behaviour and that you didn't understand this. Well, borderlines are stubborn so if they don't want to do something, they won't do it... . they just get an idea into their head and that's it... . they run with it. They don't stop to reflect and ask themselves whether their thoughts are actually logical or not. My BPD ex wasn't always compliant with his medication for example so obviously that made him a difficult patient to deal with. He would consider my ideas initially but eventually come to the conclusion that he was right all along   and that I was wrong of course... .  

My BPD ex didn't like me challenging his behaviour so he moved onto another woman who wouldn't challenge him. His therapist didn't seem to challenge him a whole lot so I did feel like he was deliberately selecting people that would feel sorry for him.


nongf-The red flag symbol is so cute btw!

Yes, my BPD ex used to drink a lot too but cut alcohol out because he knew that he had a problem.

I don't know if I would be able to deal with a former self-harmer. Self-injury is something that really frightens me. It's good that your ex recovered from self-injury though because I've read that it is like an addiction for its sufferers.

Yeah... . I think it's one thing knowing logically that you're doing something wrong and then it's another thing to actually stop it in the heat of the moment-borderlines are very impulsive so once they feel something, they tend to just run with it instead of trying to slow down. It's good that he was willing to do mindfulness meditation along with you however you're right in that there is a strong rigidity that is part of the disorder.

I think that mindfulness meditation would be helpful for a pwBPD but borderlines have so many issues... .

I'm not so sure if people really have the ability to heal or at least, I think there are limitations on it. I know what my issues are so I work on them but the minute I stop working on them, I just go back to square one. I don't think I'm ever really "healed". It's more that I have to keep taking the medicine almost-that I have to keep using certain coping skills in my life... . that it's more about symptom reduction than cure almost. And I think that the same applies for BPD. I don't think it's ever "gone"-I think it's more just about keeping it at bay really... . that it's more like a virus than anything really... . that it can hide in the body and then strike back at any time again so the person has to be extra vigilant of it. I know my response is probably a bit negative-I know that everyone wants a magic wand to all of these things but it all takes a lot of hard work really.

I thing people have to want to heal... . to get better.

[caughtnreleased]

Nongf, thanks for describing your ordeal.  It does show how incredibly difficult it is for people to get over this disorder, even with what seems like a great deal of self-awareness, motivation, effort, therapy (albeit perhaps not effective therapy) and supportive partner.   I think my ex's self awareness made me linger longer, hanging on to the hope that the fact that he knew so much about himself made him that much closer to recovery.  I would consider him to be one of the most self aware guys I have been involved with.  He too talked about meditating (before I even raised it), and he even had the book "walking on eggshells" although he admitted he couldn't get past the first few pages because it made him feel bad.  The struggles of your ex illustrate what a long, long road to recovery it can be, and at the end of the day the responsibility and work all theirs, the rest of us can simply be their casualties, or not... .

Of course, despite my ex's self awareness, and motivation to get better, he was a mess.  He too was, and still is a cutter/self harmer, and told me about it while we were in bed together, describing some pretty gruesome episodes.  On the one hand I wanted to run when he told me, but on the other I felt I couldn't drop someone who was confessing some incredibly deep troubles.  I guess I was trying not to be a selfish bhit... . something I was frequently told I was when growing up. 

I now understand that looking out for yourself in these situations is not selfish, just healthy!

MusicFan, as far as whether it really is possible to recover, I guess I see it in the following way: The brain is a muscle, and depending on habits it will be shaped a certain way.  For people like us working through our issues, it's as though we have bad posture and if we do yoga every day we can drastically improve it. Of course, going back to the bad posture still feels good, but as we work on it we eventually strengthen and exercise our muscles differently so that the good posture feels good, and we are less and less tempted to go back to the bad posture. I figure that for a person with BPD, their muscles are so bent out of shape that they don't even know that good posture exists. They've been in the same warped state for so long, that its the only reality they know and in order to get better they have to first take a leap of faith that good posture actually exists, and then they have to slowly, and painfully start moving out of what they know, and exercise it every single day for years. It's a much, much more difficult, and longer path to walk on. 

It's sad, but it's not our battle, and we can't fight it for them. 

[musicfan42]

unhooking-I was called a "bhit" growing up too when I stood up for myself... . I agree with you that looking for yourself in difficult situation is healthy, not selfish but it can be hard to really feel this at a core level because of the distorted messages I received as a child. I think that's why I posted this thread in the 1st place-because my BPD ex has triggered off all my old emotional wounds!

I just ended up talking about him; what he did, what he didn't do blah blah blah when really I wanted reassurance because I was feeling insecure about myself... . just wondering if I was attracted to my BPD ex in the first place because we both have damaged sides to our psyches... . This thought is making me feel very anxious and I'm not sure how to shake it. I just feel like damaged goods... . as if there's something wrong with me for being attracted to him initially... . for letting myself be impulsive initially... . for even mentioning BPD treatment options to him... . for even trying to fix him, even if it wasn't for a long period of time. I feel like I've just made yet another mistake, like I've messed up again. I feel such shame!  :'( And I don't know how to fix that. I can fix all these losers yet I can't fix myself! And that is killing me! Emotionally, I mean of course... . not literally

I just feel a lot of emotional pain deep down and it's easy to talk about my ex and point the finger at him... . talk about all his flaws because it makes me feel better... . except that it really doesn't. I don't want to admit this... . BUT... . I can relate to him in many ways... . I can relate to a lot of his emotions but I just don't act out my emotions. I am able to process my emotions but at the same time, there's a part of me that feels so wounded... . he knew that about me and wasn't scared of it... . didn't judge me whereas a lot of "normal" people have judged me in the past. I think he was almost drawn to my woundedness because he could relate to it-it was all he knew whereas when I started acting sensible after a while, it baffled him.

And I just hate myself now... . wondering if people on the thread are going to judge me yet I know that it really doesn't matter. I hated my BPD ex's hypersensitivity yet I can be sensitive myself to things at times! Urgh I hate this! It just feels really bad... . sucks... . I'm so triggered!

I feel like I have a self-destructive side and then a sensible side-and that I have a choice as to which side I choose to give full rein to. I think my BPD ex preferred my self-destructive, impulsive, damaged side because there was more of him in that side... . Whereas he couldn't relate to my sensible side-I've been to therapy so I have developed a sensible side.

I wonder too whether other nons on this thread feel like their own issues were triggered when they were around borderlines... . I just don't want to focus on the borderlines anymore. I've read everyone's responses in the thread and everyone had really insightful remarks to make.

[caughtnreleased]

I just can't get rid of this feeling now that I'm damaged and that's the only reason I was attracted to my BPD ex and that thought is making me feel very anxious-it's uncomfortable... . I feel like I have a self-destructive side and that my BPD ex liked that side of me... . I don't think he liked my sensible side whereas I like my sensible side and hate my self-destructive, impulsive side... . I just feel so bad about myself... . a lot of shame, I guess.

Hi Musicfan. I too was really hard on myself emerging from my relationship with my ex.  For a while I thought maybe I have BPD too, or something, and that's why we connected so intensely and understood eachother so well.  He also saw some traits in me that reminded him of himself and I could tell he liked them, a lot.  It was really hard.  and still is hard and I'm still looking for answers.

BUT... . I'm sure you reacted very well to many things in the relationship, and you need to give yourself credit for it.  You didn't lose yourself in trying to fix him, you told him to own up to his own problems and go and figure them out himself.  With the kind of emotional pull pwBPD can have, and their ability to figure out our weaknesses and manipulate us with them, it sounds like you overcame that and did the right thing.

[musicfan42]

Thanks unhooking   You're probably right-I am being too hard on myself. I get along with most people-I have good people skills so even if I don't necessarily have things in common with people, I'll try to find some common ground... . I find it easy. But my mind automatically rushed to "I'm damaged" unfortunately.

I'm just thinking now and I can't actually think of anything nice he told me about myself... . any compliments he gave me... . just the criticisms. When I told my BPD ex about my upbringing at the start of the relationship, he made sure to criticise my father. I don't like my father but at the same time, it wasn't my BPD ex's place to criticise my family or tell me how messed up they were, especially considering his own more severely dysfunctional upbringing. I didn't comment negatively on his family members because I realised that no matter how bad they may have been, they were still his family.

I think you're right about the manipulation-that when it's all criticism and very little to no praise, then there's just something seriously wrong. My BPD ex didn't like when I felt good... . when I felt confident... . when I was strong. And even at the time, I just thought that there was something seriously wrong with that. The woman he dated after me was very unstable and I thought that it was because he would feel in control with someone like that... . that with me, I was too normal, too stable, too conventional for his liking and it made him feel uncomfortable... . he wasn't in control of that situation whereas with the crazy girl, it was like being around his own equal really... . he knew what to expect in a situation like that. I think in some respects, he was jealous of me... . of my emotional stability.

He mirrored a lot of my interests and opinions-it wasn't that he had no interests of his own per se but I felt like I was wiser than him.

nongf-I read your post there and I agree with a lot of what you said. DBT has been shown to be effective in reducing hospital stays and self-injurious behaviours in borderlines but that's it really. The clinical research hasn't really focused on any possible link between DBT treatment and improved relationships for borderlines. I literally rolled my eyes when you mentioned the part about your friend, the DBT therapist, saying that DBT leads to happy fulfilling lives for borderlines. I like the DBT skills but I just wonder whether borderlines will keep practicing them in the long-term, after their year long DBT treatment is over. Because from what I understand, they have group support, individual therapy support and a phone service during that yr. I don't think that type of mollycoddling does people favours in the long-run... . eventually borderlines will have to practice the DBT skills on their own, period.

I think that both you and unhooking have a lot of self-awareness and that will serve you both well going forward-that sure, the relationships with the borderlines didn't work out but it can definitely serve as a learning experience. Nongf-I liked the way that you said that you would take a relationship slower in future... . I think this is really wise  

[LetItBe]

unhooking-I was called a "bhit" growing up too when I stood up for myself... . I agree with you that looking for yourself in difficult situation is healthy, not selfish but it can be hard to really feel this at a core level because of the distorted messages I received as a child. I think that's why I posted this thread in the 1st place-because my BPD ex has triggered off all my old emotional wounds!

I just ended up talking about him; what he did, what he didn't do blah blah blah when really I wanted reassurance because I was feeling insecure about myself... . just wondering if I was attracted to my BPD ex in the first place because we both have damaged sides to our psyches... . This thought is making me feel very anxious and I'm not sure how to shake it. I just feel like damaged goods... . as if there's something wrong with me for being attracted to him initially... . for letting myself be impulsive initially... . for even mentioning BPD treatment options to him... . for even trying to fix him, even if it wasn't for a long period of time. I feel like I've just made yet another mistake, like I've messed up again. I feel such shame!  :'( And I don't know how to fix that. I can fix all these losers yet I can't fix myself! And that is killing me! Emotionally, I mean of course... . not literally

I just feel a lot of emotional pain deep down and it's easy to talk about my ex and point the finger at him... . talk about all his flaws because it makes me feel better... . except that it really doesn't. I don't want to admit this... . BUT... . I can relate to him in many ways... . I can relate to a lot of his emotions but I just don't act out my emotions. I am able to process my emotions but at the same time, there's a part of me that feels so wounded... . he knew that about me and wasn't scared of it... . didn't judge me whereas a lot of "normal" people have judged me in the past. I think he was almost drawn to my woundedness because he could relate to it-it was all he knew whereas when I started acting sensible after a while, it baffled him.

And I just hate myself now... . wondering if people on the thread are going to judge me yet I know that it really doesn't matter. I hated my BPD ex's hypersensitivity yet I can be sensitive myself to things at times! Urgh I hate this! It just feels really bad... . sucks... . I'm so triggered!

I feel like I have a self-destructive side and then a sensible side-and that I have a choice as to which side I choose to give full rein to. I think my BPD ex preferred my self-destructive, impulsive, damaged side because there was more of him in that side... . Whereas he couldn't relate to my sensible side-I've been to therapy so I have developed a sensible side.

I wonder too whether other nons on this thread feel like their own issues were triggered when they were around borderlines... . I just don't want to focus on the borderlines anymore. I've read everyone's responses in the thread and everyone had really insightful remarks to make.

Hi, musicfan.

Yes, my r/s with uBPDxbf unearthed a lot of my own issues, absolutely!  You are definitely not alone here as you will see just about everyone on this board acknowledges their own issues were triggered in their r/s's with pwBPD, too.

When I was a little girl, I was ignored by my dBiP/uBPDm when I spoke up for myself or ask for protection from my abusive father.  Over time, I lost my voice, I felt powerless, and I coped by splitting off the bad parts of my mom so that I could stay attached to her -- for my very survival.  I can see now that I've had a couple of r/s's as an adult where I stayed too long, tolerating abusive behavior.  I had an unusually high tolerance for such treatment, not even realizing that abuse doesn't have to look like physical abuse or sexual abuse.  It can be nearly invisible -- and very insidious.

My ex was very much like my mom.  I didn't realize before him how much I still needed to process from my r/s with her -- or just how extremely abusive she really was.  Things from my childhood were constantly being triggered by my r/s with my ex.  It started with me feeling I could "help" him (like I thought I could help my mom).  I grew a lot because of it.  I eventually braved speaking up for myself (when I wasn't walking on eggshells).   I learned my needs mattered.  I learned more about setting boundaries (that I wasn't allowed when I was growing up).  All of this felt very risky to me, as I feared being rejected or abandoned by him (as I was my mom), but I grew to learn that I AM worth it.  Ultimately, he did not respect my needs or boundaries, so I learned also that just because I take the risk and ask, it doesn't mean someone else will agree -- or be honest that they don't agree, in his case.  And -- that was his choice.  I have no control over him.  And -- I learned I have the choice and power to walk away from an abusive (emotionally or otherwise) situation.

It's my understanding that we are drawn to people who mirror things that we are ready to see.  I learned through my ex that I had more long-buried sadness than I ever acknowledged.  I learned to be able to sit with that instead of avoid it.  I also felt more sensitive around him (walking on eggshells), and I had never felt so off-balance and insecure with a partner.  I had many issues come up that it was apparently time to work on.

[musicfan42]

Wow nongf, you're very brave... . that you actually realised that you were walking on eggshells around your BPD ex and started speaking up for yourself. The "easy" option would have been to keep doing the same old, same old but you took a chance and as you say, learned that you are worth it.

My mother was a good parent for the most part however she felt like I brought on all the trouble I had with my father on myself... . that I was provoking my father into his rages whereas my attitude was very much "he doesn't get along with anyone, let alone me... . he's just not a nice person, period". I was more honest about it because I didn't have as much of an emotional attachment to him as she did. She probably did love him at one point whereas I just plain out hated him so I was able to see the wood from the trees a lot sooner than she could. I just felt like she was too passive, acting like a doormat instead of standing up for herself!

So at times, I was very passive like my mother and then at other times, I was very angry like my father. I've worked on that angry side-it's like the anger was at the top but then all the horrible emotional vulnerability was underneath it the entire time! So that's the bit I'm really dealing with now. I know that I've made progress during therapy etc because I don't act on my anger now... . I am able to recognise that there's other secondary emotions underneath it and to explore those emotions. I didn't realise that I could be assertive-that there was an in-between at all so it was a relief when I started learning assertiveness techniques. Sometimes, I knew that I was being too mean but didn't know to get respect and then a lot of the time, I felt like I was letting people walk all over me. The whole thing was frustrating for me basically.

Yes, I started feeling insecure after a while around my BPD ex because he just wanted to talk about all these really horrible, sad things... . like his abusive childhood etc... . that would depress anyone! I felt insecure too because he really did not understand my point of view whatsoever-I felt defensive, like I wanted to defend myself from his attacks and then trying to calm down because I knew that being defensive was not the answer. But really, I wanted to fight back-I wanted to tell him what an awful person he was... . I wanted revenge. Definitely. His comments caused me to question myself-I was told at one point that I was "narcissistic" and I was like "oh my god, does he even know what a narcissist IS?" I was self-assured enough to state emphatically that I was not but he was so sure that I was! It's the accumulation of all these nasty comments that really kills your self-esteem... . I can deal with 1 or 2 mean comments but if it's a total onslaught, well yeah, that's hard for anyone to deal with.

I learned from my BPD ex that yes, there is such a thing as being oversensitive-that people need to be emotionally resilient to survive in the world. I don't think that being cold is the answer but there needs to be a balance-everyone has responsibilities in life so no one can afford to constantly complain that they're a victim or start acting up in a self-destructive way... . that kind of thing just wrecks peoples' lives... . I feel like it's totally fine to tell someone to get a grip-maybe not use those exact words but basically tell them that it's their problem and that it's up to them to solve it. I realised that mollycoddling does no one any favours at all... . that we all have to live in the real world. And by "emotionally resilient", I mean things like not taking criticism to heart but actually handling it in a mature manner... . being able to deal with feelings of anger in a calm manner... . etc etc.

I don't think I learned very much about myself from my ex because I had already been to therapy-it was just the same issues coming up again!   It was annoying though because I thought that I had already dealt with this stuff and here it was coming back again... . I thought "have I learned nothing at all?" But I think that for me anyways, my stuff will be triggered in certain situations over and over again and that it's up to me to deal with it in a mature manner... . that my stuff (by which, I mean my baggage  ) is not going anywhere but that I can deal with it in a better way really.

[caughtnreleased]

Yes... . somehow BPDs find ways to bring up some deeply buried issues. I too found myself feeling insecure about so many things, I was shocked actually by how I felt around him sometimes, as I considered myself to be quite confident in relationships.

I guess that's the positive thing I am taking from dating a BPD, so many of my own issues were revealed to me. I had never heard of BPD,  never been to therapy, etc.  He tried to explain it to me, but did a pretty bad job of it, so he sent me online to learn about it (I'm not sure if that was a smart move on his part  ), but reading about everything actually caused some pretty severe anxiety in me, mostly because I started seeing some unhealthy patterns in my previous relationships.

Musicfan, your mention about the discussions you had with your ex about your family actually reminded me of something really mean my ex said about my father that I had forgotten about (funny how we do block out some of the bad stuff).  My ex knew my dad was a really important person in my life who I admired and spoke about a lot.  I felt so small when he (who had never met my dad) made a really degrading comment about him being weak, I don't think I ever mentioned my father again to him.  But afterwards I thought about why that comment made me feel so bad, and to be honest it struck me at my core. 

My mother was verbally abusive to all of us growing up, and while I remember my father actually putting his foot down once or twice when she really took it too far, for the most part he didn't do much to stop it, and just tried to fly under the radar.   It was probably his own survival strategy, as I remember some really insane crazy moments when I was really young, when he did stand up to her. I think he preferred to give up the fight and let her have her way.  I turned out to be the one in the family who stood up to her, and as a result was more of a target.  For a long time I thought that by standing up to her (fighting back) I knew how to defend myself, I've since realized that's not the case.  Years of being punished for defending and standing up for yourself and being told you are undeserving of any good things that happen to you in life definitely have an impact on you.  I'm good at standing up for others, but for myself not so much. Also, for really long time I completely vilified my mother and idealized my father, but I realize now things really aren't so simple. 

 

I've dealt with a lot of anger in my life, and in the past couple years have really become aware of it, but I wasn't aware of the sadness. 

Like nonGF, though being with my BPDex somehow made that sadness bubble up to the surface. One thing that really struck me, and that really made me frightened that something was wrong with me was that when we barely even knew each other we had a really intimate night together. We didn't do much talking, but we had such an intense connection, and as I now think about it, it really was as though we were both silently comforting each other from years of sadness.   When I found out he had a mental illness, and I'd had that kind of intense connection with him, I started looking for some answers.  Since then I've been experiencing many moments of sadness... . but I know it's not about him.  It's about me.

I too have never felt so off-balance and conflicted about a partner before.  NonGF, I really like your sentence about us being drawn to people who will mirror things that we are ready to see. 

[musicfan42]

I hope I didn't trigger you there unhooking by mentioning the incident about my father and the comment my BPD ex.

I can relate to a lot of what you describe unhooking. I was more of a target for my father's rages because I stood up to him too. I idealised my mother and vilified my father as well. I know what you mean when you say "things aren't that simple" but I don't regret it either. I feel like it got me through that situation so I still feel like I did what I had to do at the time... . I was a child and that was my way of dealing with it. As an adult, I'd deal with things differently but that's the benefit of being more mature

I got into the habit of defending others but not being so good at defending myself too. I didn't think that I was worth defending really-I felt like other peoples' needs were more important than mine, that I was inferior to other people. I'm good at asserting myself now though thankfully so this is not an issue anymore.

My BPD ex understood my emotional pain-he was able to validate me in the initial stages of the relationship. He was able to give me the type of validation that I had never really received from a man before so it filled a big emotional longing within me. I reacted badly when he told me of his own emotional pain though... . I tried to be patient with him and listen but I felt like he was just reveling in his sob story whereas at least I was prepared to do something about my problems.

It was like I wanted his attention initially-I saw him comforting that girl before I even knew him and I wanted that attention... . it was all "faraway hills are green" but up close, it was a bit of an anticlimax... . like "oh is this it?" When he started telling me about his own emotional pain, I put up firm boundaries... . I guess I put up a wall and just told him that I could deal with my own issues, that I didn't need him... . that I had tools so I could deal with things myself. Oh and that he should get tools to deal with his own issues too. I started to realise that all this sharing we were doing on emotional pain just wasn't psychologically healthy and that I was better off just dealing with my own problems myself-that seeking sympathy from a man may have seemed like the "easy option" at the time but that I was really capable of comforting myself... . that I didn't need to act helpless. I felt helpless initially but then I quickly realised that I wasn't-that I had good coping tools already and that I'd be okay so when I realised that, that's when I put down firm boundaries with him really.

[caughtnreleased]

Hey Musicfan, no you didn't trigger me.  You just jogged my memory. I had recently tried to remember some of the mean things he did, and had completely forgotten that one really cutting comment he made and how it had really affected me.  I remember thinking after the time, who is this guy that he can make such a horrible comment about my father, someone he has never met. And I figured, I was done with him. It made me disgusted with him   But then... . I forgot all about the incident, or seem to have blocked it out of my mind.  Funny how the mind works.

It sounds like you did the right thing for yourself with your ex.  If we don't take proper care of ourselves first, then we can't really take care or be there for others.  PwBPD take others down with them.  You cut yourself lose because you want a better life for yourself.

[musicfan42]

Thanks unhooking Yes you're right- I want a better life for myself. I'm done focusing on him-I feel like I've accepted it now. I thought I had before but I really hadn't... . maybe acceptance is more of a process as opposed to a one time event, snap your fingers and it's done type of thing?

But anyways, I've decided that I have to focus on myself. It's been great being able to discuss my feelings here-I feel so much better now!