Therapy question...

[bruceli]

For those who are in or have done MC... . do find yourself leading the session with your T in regards to them focusing on working on your SO's PD issues?  Hinting to the T that your SO has BPD/NPD so as to move along more efficiently?  Just wondering... .

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[Mike76]

For those who are in or have done MC... . do find yourself leading the session with your T in regards to them focusing on working on your SO's PD issues?  Hinting to the T that your SO has BPD/NPD so as to move along more efficiently?  Just wondering... .

I would say that was my original attempt, but I was shut down my the MC very early on.   Additionally our MC does not individual time just me or me uBPDw.

But I was patient, did not give up, and mentioned the issues slowly.   Rather than mentioning a BPD trait,  I was say this problem happen, and this is how we resolved it.  The resolution as a couple did not work me, and we as couple need to better. 

I took 6 months and about 18-20 sessions, but I believe the MC do see's the problems.  So much in fact we meet late last week and the MC is letting us have a extra appointment this afternoon. (Just 3 days later).   Leaving the last session, the MC said to my wife, "if you husband changes in the way he wishes, how are you going to react?"

Long story short, be patient, if you are doing this the MC route, it takes time. 

[united for now]

In my opinion any good T will notice your relationship isn't "balanced" fairly quickly. They will notice the lack of responsibility and the blame shifting. They will also recognize how uncommitted the pwBPD is to changing themselves.

While I can completely understand your desire for the T to notice, remember that a MC is treating "the relationship" and not the individual... . and they will want to tread lightly so as to not scare the pwBPD away.


You may be the focus for awhile, so be patient. Allow the process to work.

[zaqsert]

My experience was similar, and I agree with Mike76 and United for Now:  be patient.

Early on in MC, I would bring up problems, and we would try to work them through in the sessions, although it rarely got us anywhere.  Periodically though, my wife would go along with it and help find a solution.  But then she also complained that I did most of the talking (often not true, but that was her perception).

Then I backed off and let her do most of the talking, or at least start the talking.  It often turned into more of an individual session for her, although she usually kept it very superficial.  I have my own T anyway, so I did not mind.  Her versions of stories were often so distorted that I felt it would convey the wrong message to our T.  Then I realized that it took only a slight mention of the fact that I saw it differently, and our T seemed to get it.

In fact, despite my frustrations, our T seemed to pick up pretty quickly on what was driving my wife to do what she does.  And our T picked up on the things that I was doing to contribute to them too!  For example, she had me stop JADEing, although I did not understand why until much more recently when I learned about BPD.

After learning about BPD, earlier this year, I had a session with our MC T on my own (my wife backed out at the last minute).  Talking about some of my wife's behaviors, I said "it seems borderline".  Our MC T just said "yes, it is".  It took a couple of these individual sessions with our T for me to really realize that she got it.  She just can't open up about it in front of my wife, for many of the same reasons why I can't and shouldn't bring up BPD with my wife.

So, as they said, be patient.

[Wanda]

 when we went to theropy we went to phyciatrist i just knew something was wrong, His Therapist acted like nothing was wrong, but like UFO stated if they are good they will pick it up . HE did but you can't tell someone that doesn't want to hear he has a personality disorder he has one... . HIs therapist just told me he was going to call mine and i needed to learn coping skills and boundaries the tools i am like what? and my Therapist took it from there i was in THerapy to learn how to cope, not to get him better by treatment because he wouldn't listen... . I beleive his therapist told him once he knew i was ok and it all ended... . he never was to return i learned the coping skills and here I am... .    

[ltul]

     My therapist told not me to say anything about BPD in MC but to just say the facts. Because the facts of his behavior are consistently the same. Which shows his borderline traits. Their actions speak much loader then their words(which are usually so distorted and, or untrue)

[Bloomer]

I have been in therapy a year now. We started couples in October and it ended in early March. uBPD hubby is now also in therapy (1 month) as a condition to ending couples.

Our therapy sessions were often very stressful. We started before the idea of BPD came up in our relationship and he was still blaming me for much of the stress between us. At first I let him lead the sessions but sometimes I felt like I really wanted to tell our T what was going on at home. He actually dysregulated during therapy many times (I'd say about 60% of our sessions over those months) and when our therapist told him that the way he expressed his anger was "hostile" he had a hard time hearing that. This led to him feeling she was "against" him. I felt caught in the middle. After a while of this, they seemed to resolve some things and we had some productive sessions, where he admitted and owned his part of the stress, without me leading in any way. However, the progress was short-lived. He started to think he just needed his own therapy and that couples was pointless. Eventually he had a huge rage during a session and said he was done with therapy and our relationship. He apologized after the session, took back wanting to leave and I told him he had to go to individual therapy for us to be together.

Eventually I did call our couples T to let her know what was going on. We are supposed to go back for one last session but so far we haven't and I'm not going to push on it.

I think for us, focusing on ourselves seems to be the best option. Any time I tried to "lead" the discussion, he often felt attacked or ganged up on. Not sure if this helps but it was my experience, anyway.

B.

[bruceli]

I have been in therapy a year now. We started couples in October and it ended in early March. uBPD hubby is now also in therapy (1 month) as a condition to ending couples.

Our therapy sessions were often very stressful. We started before the idea of BPD came up in our relationship and he was still blaming me for much of the stress between us. At first I let him lead the sessions but sometimes I felt like I really wanted to tell our T what was going on at home. He actually dysregulated during therapy many times (I'd say about 60% of our sessions over those months) and when our therapist told him that the way he expressed his anger was "hostile" he had a hard time hearing that. This led to him feeling she was "against" him. I felt caught in the middle. After a while of this, they seemed to resolve some things and we had some productive sessions, where he admitted and owned his part of the stress, without me leading in any way. However, the progress was short-lived. He started to think he just needed his own therapy and that couples was pointless. Eventually he had a huge rage during a session and said he was done with therapy and our relationship. He apologized after the session, took back wanting to leave and I told him he had to go to individual therapy for us to be together.

Eventually I did call our couples T to let her know what was going on. We are supposed to go back for one last session but so far we haven't and I'm not going to push on it.

I think for us, focusing on ourselves seems to be the best option. Any time I tried to "lead" the discussion, he often felt attacked or ganged up on. Not sure if this helps but it was my experience, anyway.

B.

On the few occasions DW went to individual therapy alone... . It always seems to derail what we accomplish in MC.  I believe this stems from her telling her side of a situation and also hearing only that which she wants to hear or hearing what she THINKS she hears.  She then comes home and talks about how her ideas and thoughts about the relationship have been validated, yada, yada, yada.  Tends to set things back quite a bit... .

[Bloomer]

On the few occasions DW went to individual therapy alone... . It always seems to derail what we accomplish in MC.  I believe this stems from her telling her side of a situation and also hearing only that which she wants to hear or hearing what she THINKS she hears.  She then comes home and talks about how her ideas and thoughts about the relationship have been validated, yada, yada, yada.  Tends to set things back quite a bit... .

Sometimes this does happen. I've also struggled with this as my husband has used his therapist's validation against me as well. It's really tough but we have to let go control and allow them to be in charge of them. We have to hope that their therapist is competent and will gain their trust and eventually help them to empathize better. We also have to realize that it wouldn't matter if they told both sides or not, they will probably still cherry pick what they need when they're feeling desperate and want us to understand how they feel. So, either way, they control them and all we can control is us :-) It's frustrating but just keep replaying that in your head. I have it on repeat.

Is your S/O's therapist using DBT at all?

 B.

[bruceli]

On the few occasions DW went to individual therapy alone... . It always seems to derail what we accomplish in MC.  I believe this stems from her telling her side of a situation and also hearing only that which she wants to hear or hearing what she THINKS she hears.  She then comes home and talks about how her ideas and thoughts about the relationship have been validated, yada, yada, yada.  Tends to set things back quite a bit... .

Sometimes this does happen. I've also struggled with this as my husband has used his therapist's validation against me as well. It's really tough but we have to let go control and allow them to be in charge of them. We have to hope that their therapist is competent and will gain their trust and eventually help them to empathize better. We also have to realize that it wouldn't matter if they told both sides or not, they will probably still cherry pick what they need when they're feeling desperate and want us to understand how they feel. So, either way, they control them and all we can control is us :-) It's frustrating but just keep replaying that in your head. I have it on repeat.

Is your S/O's therapist using DBT at all?

 B.

NO... . unfortunately the only therapist in our small town who was trained in DBT has since left... . The best we have here are T's who at best have atleast heard of cluster b disorders.  Many... . and I mean many here have no real idea about how to go about and treat pwPD's.

[Bloomer]

NO... . unfortunately the only therapist in our small town who was trained in DBT has since left... . The best we have here are T's who at best have atleast heard of cluster b disorders.  Many... . and I mean many here have no real idea about how to go about and treat pwPD's.

That's rough. Is your wife aware of her BPD or diagnosed?

[bruceli]

NO... . unfortunately the only therapist in our small town who was trained in DBT has since left... . The best we have here are T's who at best have atleast heard of cluster b disorders.  Many... . and I mean many here have no real idea about how to go about and treat pwPD's.

That's rough. Is your wife aware of her BPD or diagnosed?

She is but is having trouble wrapping her mind around it and making everyone elses life miserable in the mean time.

[Bloomer]

She is but is having trouble wrapping her mind around it and making everyone elses life miserable in the mean time.

Do you think you could try an at home couples workbook make any other suggestions about a DBT workbook for her?

[bruceli]

She is but is having trouble wrapping her mind around it and making everyone elses life miserable in the mean time.

Do you think you could try an at home couples workbook make any other suggestions about a DBT workbook for her?

Have the books already, just havn't started implementing yet... .

[Bloomer]

Have the books already, just havn't started implementing yet... .

Just try to remember the golden rule of reinforcing how much you care when you try to start implementing. Lots of positivity and maybe try to let her take charge of it. (My H often feels controlled by me even though I don't ever tell him what to do. So maybe she doesn't have that issue but just a thought).

Let us know how it goes. Good luck!

 B.

[bruceli]

Thanks 

[rj47]

In my opinion any good T will notice your relationship isn't "balanced" fairly quickly. They will notice the lack of responsibility and the blame shifting. They will also recognize how uncommitted the pwBPD is to changing themselves.

45-min into our first meeting with a counselor, he stopped her midsentence, looked at me and said... . "you're absolutely terrified of her". Not a good start. By the third session she was fighting openly with him and accusing both of us of making her out to be the crazy. She simply could not operate within rules he set for fair discussion of issues. It was almost comical and I admit to enjoying it a bit. When I called him to advise we would not be returning he asked if I knew what BPD was and offered the name of a therapist that might be able to help me.

[coasterhusband]

We had been to two other counselors in the past. Neither of those attempts had worked, but I believe mainly because I wasn't really ready to understand and because I had no clue what BPD was.

Third attempt has been the charm (to an extent, anyway). I told my uBPDw flat out a few months back that I wanted to go as a condition of staying to make this work. She agreed, but said she ONLY wanted to talk about and address our communication problems and move-forward type discussions, not all the lingering back history. (I was more than fine with this!)

I volunteered to find and vet several counselors that she could then choose from. She agreed (and likely because she just doesn't really want or believe in this process). This was THE crucial part of the process. I called around and interviewed multiple counselors and mentioned my belief of BPD. I vetted the ones I talked to based on personality fit, understanding of BPD, background in dealing with BPD patients, etc.

It's worked well, in many ways, still tough in other ways. My wife only wants to go every 2-3 weeks (the most she claims she can tolerate), and she gets nervous to the point of snipping and anger every time. After we leave, in the car she always seems to get angry and starts talking about how this is too hard for her and we're not getting anywhere, etc. She lashes out and/or makes those big bold statements that are about things I've done but are somehow "not about you, stop being defensive".

All that said, I'm still driving forward. It's worthwhile as a long term investment. The therapist has given us two tools that have proven quiet helpful: the "I understand you are saying... . " exercise where you try to repeat what the other person is telling you in order to ensure they believe you understand them. The other is the "5 Love Languages" book and process. Both are quite helpful is coming to some shared process and understanding without saying "You have BPD!"

There are still a great, great many issues to resolve. But the MC process seems to be sticking this time... . knock on wood.

[bruceli]

Have the books already, just havn't started implementing yet... .

Just try to remember the golden rule of reinforcing how much you care when you try to start implementing. Lots of positivity and maybe try to let her take charge of it. (My H often feels controlled by me even though I don't ever tell him what to do. So maybe she doesn't have that issue but just a thought).

Let us know how it goes. Good luck!

 B.

Decided today that going on with the current T would just derail the progress that we have slowly been making over the last couple of weeks. Just not feeling this T and would like to look for someone more up to date with PD therapy.  Atleast someone more attuned with CBT/DBT.

[Bloomer]

Decided today that going on with the current T would just derail the progress that we have slowly been making over the last couple of weeks. Just not feeling this T and would like to look for someone more up to date with PD therapy.  Atleast someone more attuned with CBT/DBT.

Sometimes T's just aren't a good fit, for individuals or couples. My H has been making good progress with his individual T, who has experience with CBT, not DBT specific but our couples T had a different approach and it just didn't work.

Good luck with your search. I hope you find someone who is a better fit.