Do we have "core trauma" for dating someone with BPD?

[Deleted]

This thought has troubled me for some time now. I've read so many articles stating that people who date and put up with the tortures of a partner with BPD have some sort of "core" trauma and they themselves are emotionally damaged/hindered. The BPD is only bringing to surface our repressed problems. How valid is this?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, are we really just all messed up in the mind due to childhood issues and that's what caused us to be here?

I've done extensive mental work to try to think about what could of caused me to stay for 10 months with my BPD ex, I tried linking childhood scenarios and I just don't find any relationship between the two. My parents are the epitome of what great parents are, I understand no one has an ideal childhoods I know I didn't but I can't complain.

[KellyO]

10 months is not so long time. People take abuse for decades. 10 months can be just one bad experience, from which you learn what kind of people you don't want to be with, and next time it is 10 hours and you walk away.

Me, for example, had to look at myself and deep, because this was not my first relationship with a disordered person. And how I acted was not far from disordered. I never had a normal, healthy relationship. And so I realized in every relationship I had, one thing is common: ME. And that is from where I started. And yes, I had a core wound, and it was deep. My childhood was far from happy, but I was in denial about how it had effected me.

Learn everything you can, it is never waisted.

[Tordesillas]

I've thought a lot about this... .

I do think most of us who were/are drawn to someone with BPD have some very real damage at some core levels that needs addressing.  I certainly do... . and I came from a pretty decent family.  I also think the kind of insecurities and weaknesses that lead to being drawn to BPD relationships can very easily come from a generally healthy upbringing.  

Maybe there are some things in your childhood that you have glossed over because they didn't seem "traumatic enough".  I did that at first as well.  I said to myself "those things weren't nearly as bad as what a lot of kids went through... . so they couldn't possibly have done much damage".  But they can... . and in my case, they did.  

And remember that everyone is unique... . You stayed for 10 months with someone who has BPD.  That doesn't mean you'd have the same initial core damage as someone who has remained for years and years and went through more than one BPD relationship.  So maybe you're not dealing with the deepest wounds humanly possible, but there are probably some there that have left you a little susceptible to a BPD relationship.

That's my guess... .

[Free One]

10 months is not so long time. People take abuse for decades. 10 months can be just one bad experience, from which you learn what kind of people you don't want to be with, and next time it is 10 hours and you walk away.

I agree. I think it would be possible for a pwBPD to come across as "normal" in the context of 10 months.

However, Deleted, I do think it is good for you to examine yourself and see what part you played in the r/s. For me, it's all about learning about myself and my mistakes so I don't have to go through this again.

[Deleted]

Thank you all,

I know I've looked deep into myself and I'm glad I went through it. I have I guess, ascended. My character, personality, what I WANT in a relationship, have been redefined and fine tuned because of this relationship. 10months of hell made me weak, lost, sad, angry, depressed nothing good came from it. Until now that I'm finding who the hell I am. What type of person I am. What my values are etc. I look deep within myself and ask why did I stay? I felt scared she would do something or I would further damage her. I'm not a knight or a rescuer never was never will be. I don't know, I hope that whatever issue i have that caused me to stay, I will be able to come to terms with it.

[goldylamont]

Deleted, from what i can gather reading here, the majority of people having a r/s with a pwBPD find some type of core issues from childhood that made them stay. i, like you am having a hard time finding any core issues within myself that would attract this type of person. i'm not afraid of finding some defect within, in fact i welcome this type of awareness, but i didn't have an unhealthy r/s pattern of this sort either before or after being with a pwBPD.

there's definitely aspects of myself that i know i want to work on and change, but i think i avoided most of the pitfalls that many describe here as reasons they contributed to being in an abusive r/s. like you, i never wanted to or thought i could "save" her. i respected her at the time realizing that she had overcome a lot of previous trauma, not understanding until years later that it wasn't fully resolved.

also i never had a deep inner need to feel loved from my childhood. in fact, i can't relate really to the "idealization" phase of the r/s talked about so much here (although i'm well aware of the "hater" phase  ). i'm sure idealization may have played a part in her psyche, but not really mine. our r/s didn't speed forward too fast, it developed i feel at a natural pace just like other healthier r/s i've had.

and, while in the r/s, yes there were times when she drove me crazy. i would lash out verbally, angry, and i've learned about this part of myself. however i feel confident that this isn't my normal way of being or any hidden trouble i've been running away from. so far, i just feel i was reacting to being emotionally abused and manipulated by a person suffering from abandonment issues. someone intent on punishing me and other loved ones around her for her false perceptions of being treated unfairly.

in the year and a half since ending the r/s, i've seen how my exBPDgf has behaved with others. and also their reactions. after being together for 4 yrs and feeling this amount of pain i still behaved better than others she's "loved" (or i say, she tricked), being with them for only a few months.

i do think it's possible for strong willed people with good intentions to fall for a person with BPD simply because they are ignorant to what it is and how things will inevitably play out. i can remember knowing in my heart, sensing with my intuition what was going on, but it wasn't until i found others in the same boat that i was able to confirm that my internal, gut feelings were correct.

if i find myself in many more abusive relationships then i definitely need to look at some core issues on why i could be attracting this kind of energy, but this doesn't seem to be a pattern to me. if you are really doing work to look at yourself and your role in things, and you don't find so much there, well, keep looking. but at the same time, make sure you reestablish your own faith and convictions and don't let this exBPD in any way lay blame you for their own issues. my ex would literally fantasize about me being abusive to her, but this was all her lies. this was not me. never was and isn't now. it's knowing this and reaffirming it with new experiences and relationships that has been my journey thus far.

[seeking balance]

KellyO has a great point - 10 months is not that long... . I mean it takes a few months to get a handle on whether someone is authentic or not.  Depending on your age or dating experience, this could just be chalked up to a bad relationship.

Core wounds show themselves when the pain is close to unbearable.  Some folks can have this even in a descent childhood by all standards.  We are all unique in our makeup for emotional pain and validation, as such, there is no blaming - just understanding who we are and how we tick is the key.

Until now that I'm finding who the hell I am. What type of person I am. What my values are etc. I look deep within myself and ask why did I stay? I felt scared she would do something or I would further damage her. I'm not a knight or a rescuer never was never will be. I don't know, I hope that whatever issue i have that caused me to stay, I will be able to come to terms with it.

This is all good, self-reflective insight here - as such, the likelihood of repeating is less. 

[Deleted]

SB and Goldylamont,

Thank you for your insights- I had absolutely no clue as to what the heck BPD was until I started researching about her behavior and my friend (who is close to recieving a degree as a psychiatrist) told me she could possibly have BPD. I stated in a previous post that I actually got to know my BPD ex more in this year of NC than when I was in bed with her cuddling, pretty crazy huh?

I was 22 years old when I started dating her and althought I've been with  numerous women, I had 2 actual relationships prior to this one.

I guess a fear of mine is that, I saw how truly affected my BPD ex was with her past. Whatever issue I have not been able to find? I hope it does not affect me the way it does to her.The look on her face, my god, sent chills down my back, so cold, miserable, and empty. One thing I found in the article that was linked in this discussion, it sounds as if people who date people with BPD are almost certain to have core trauma and issues. I don't want to be affected about it like my exBPD was. I dunno. Just scary to see first hand what childhood issues can do to a person.

[seeking balance]

I don't want to be affected about it like my exBPD was. I dunno. Just scary to see first hand what childhood issues can do to a person.

It is not only trauma in childhood, there is a brain component as well. 

Think about it this way, sometimes we see a news story about the most horrific childhood and the person as an adult does great things, kind and compassionate.  Other times, we see no real abuse - perhaps an invalidating emotional environment that can lead to all kinds of poor outcomes (drugs, bulimia, etc).

Every person is different and reacts to experiences differently - is there something in your childhood that you are particularly worried about?

[Deleted]

Seekingbalance,

That was truly helpful. You're absolutely right. I've never experimented with drugs, had any eating disorders, or anything like that. On the contrary, I was always into health sports and considered myself a decent looking guy. I know it's not definitive proof that I don't have childhood trauma. I went on a website gettingbetter a while ago and actually found it helpful as it was clear and concise in explaining BPD. But it made it seem as if one were to have some damaged core trauma. As I look back at my childhood it was good can't really complain about much. I'm worried that, I must have something because its not normal to tolerate such a relationship.

[goldylamont]

many here will suggest that there *must* be something wrong with you to have been in this r/s. i tend to disagree, but that's just my two cents. i do completely agree though that all of us need to do soul searching and work on self-awareness and betterment. keep searching and see if you find anything, but i wouldn't get all twisted if you don't find big issues from your past, perhaps naivete was the biggest culprit... .

[Deleted]

Goldylamont,

I agree with you completely. I dunno I don't think I have any core trauma. Some BPD websites push towards this notion that we have to be scarred from our past. My BPDex bought such serious, HUGE issues from her past that it would of been completely effed up for me to just get up and run away as fast as possible. I was naive, i never personally dealt with such experiences (perceived or not) in my life I was taken completely off guard. I can say that now next time someone comes to me with that I would quickly say "I have total empathy for you and it's not your fault but I am in no position to help you since I do not have the resources or education for that". I was too naive and filled with excitement and lust

[Free One]

Goldylamont,

I agree with you completely. I dunno I don't think I have any core trauma. Some BPD websites push towards this notion that we have to be scarred from our past. My BPDex bought such serious, HUGE issues from her past that it would of been completely effed up for me to just get up and run away as fast as possible. I was naive, i never personally dealt with such experiences (perceived or not) in my life I was taken completely off guard. I can say that now next time someone comes to me with that I would quickly say "I have total empathy for you and it's not your fault but I am in no position to help you since I do not have the resources or education for that". I was too naive and filled with excitement and lust

Maybe you should look at your positive character traits that made you get out of an unhealthy r/s. I would venture to say maybe it is a lack of unresolved core issues that allowed you to stay ONLY 10 months instead of 10 years.

Again, 10 months really isn't much. That is what dating is... . getting to know someone on a deeper level to see if their is compatibility past attraction.

[Murbay]

I don't think the issue isn't so much about getting into a relationship with a pwBPD, because they can mirror and it is always nice to hear someone speak positively about you. The mirroring doesn't always go one way so sometimes we are unaware of what is happening. Some pwBPD are very genuine until something triggers their core which could be days, weeks or months.

Our core issues identify themselves from the fact that we know something is very wrong, we choose to ignore the red flags, lower our boundaries, the more demands put upon us the more of a caretaker role we gave ourselves despite knowing something wasn't right.

It also doesn't always mean that we have "issues" in our past. My parents divorced and my mother worked hard to support me and my sister which meant my childhood was mostly taking care of my sister. We didn't have much money for the "fun" things so I started work young too and earned my own pocket money. It also meant I learned to self soothe early on and mostly on my own because I couldn't go anywhere since I had to take care of my sister. It wasn't a traumatic experience and as an adult I understand the dynamics and why things were the way they were.

However, it didn't stop me being "lonely inner child" and although I have good friends and family as an adult, I still carry some of the traits I did as a child. At my low points, I tend to step back from people to self soothe, even something as simple as reading a book. Which in my relationship with a pwBPD then triggered their abandonment issues because I would find a space on my own to read. When it comes to problem solving, I usually solve my issues on my own because that's how I was always used to doing it. It was my own guilt for doing these things that I lowered my boundaries for pwBPD and allowed the abuse, while still trying desperately to figure out how to be caretaker. Taking responsibility for her words and actions because I  felt I deserved it and also because "lonely inner child" was still lonely.

So sometimes the trauma or core issues don't easily present themselves because I did have a good childhood, learned to be responsible financially, had good friends, learned the value of work, learned to support myself and become independent but despite all of that, I was still a lonely child desperately looking for a friend to share my life with.

[fromheeltoheal]

I don't fault myself for being attracted to her initially; she is very attractive and when she hung on every word and needed to talk to me all the time, it was awesome, intoxicating.  And as we now know, that was BPD idealization.

The things that really makes me question myself and look deep inside are why did I ignore many red flags, disregard disrespect and abuse, keep pushing forward in the face of complete bllsht.  Naivety, blindsided by the disorder, wanting to get back to how it was in the beginning, all legitimate.  I too was in the relationship for less than a year, took a whole lot more sht from her than I should have, but wised up eventually, got pretty good at giving the sht right back to her, which she found intolerable of course, and then I got the hell out.  I credit myself for having the strength and awareness, finally, to do that.

Do I have deep seated core trauma though.  Maybe, don't know yet.  No one had perfect parents, it's impossible, mine were emotionally aloof although I'm positive they loved me.  I'll get back to you on that, but I learned a bunch from the relationship, and don't see myself falling for it again, or maybe just getting out quicker.

[Deleted]

Thanks again to you all for responding,

All I can say is that this is a blessing in disguise. I didn't see it in the beginning, I thought this was just downright cruel and unfair. I realized that this experience, however short it may have been- it has created such an impact in my life quite unlike anything else I have experienced in my 25 years of life. It will make me be a better person to myself, family, and in future relationships. She has made me look at myself, question myself, although I may not have found all the answers, I've made great strides in finding ME. Some days are hell and I feel pathetic that Im still affected by her but I don't care. It's about me, i feel confident in who i am. perhaps its the age and time for me to have such thoughts, maybe she was a catalyst for all this. I walk a little lighter now. Thank you all for reading.

[goldylamont]

Maybe you should look at your positive character traits that made you get out of an unhealthy r/s. I would venture to say maybe it is a lack of unresolved core issues that allowed you to stay ONLY 10 months instead of 10 years.

Again, 10 months really isn't much. That is what dating is... . getting to know someone on a deeper level to see if their is compatibility past attraction.

wow Free One, thanks for that perspective. you put into words what i was trying to express.

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all.

Pretty tough questions, all round.

I would have to agree and say that none of us, (no matter how fantastic our childhoods were) come away with no form of baggage. Our parents are only human, and they make mistakes too, however, even when you come from a dysfunctional family, there are still positives in what lessons your parents taught you, (even eventually the really bad ones too as they can be used to help others).

A lot of us spend lifetimes trying to overcome some of the deeper negatives, (such as anxiety, anger, coping, negative beliefs, racism, sexism, and behavioural conditioning).

But I believe as we age, we certainly mellow, so even if we have a succession of failed relationships, it always comes down to one way love in most cases.

Love is a two way street, as we all know, sometimes the scales of need might swing more on one side of the equation, but things usually have to balance themselves out eventually. If one partner is always the high need, (and keeps avoiding the personal responsibility for meeting those needs, and then blaming their partner or everyone else), it cannot be sustained.

If one partner continues to lie and cheat, (despite being asked not to), there can be no relationship.

If one partner uses drugs or alcohol or pornography, or work, or gambling, or excessive spending, (insert others here) there can be no relationship, until that partner addresses their own issues.

If one partner financially abuses the other, either because they have more, or less, this too cannot be sustained.

If one partner becomes deathly ill, and the other cannot/will not cope, there can be no relationship.

However, when I see couples coping with illness, and sticking by their significant other, I believe the relationship had to have had a strong foundation from the beginning, in order for the union to last, (such as with Christopher Reeve and his wife) and many others.

If Christopher Reeve had been a Borderline, I doubt whether his wife would be able to cope with that plus the aftermath of his accident, it just is not humanly possible to expect her to either.

If one partner admits from the beginning that they have mental health issues, and keeps abusing you, then apologising, but never addresses their mental health, there is no relationship, (this is my case, and more fool me for loving someone who clearly couldn't love me, he wasn't available to).

Some people are prepared to do this, and begin to address, whilst working on the relationship too, all praise to them, but I believe from looking at the statistics out there, that many don't, ever.

When I look back at my part in the failed relationships I have had, before I had met BP, I thought about the mistakes I made, and yes, they did not help and were my part in any relationship's demise.

I had partners all very similar to BP, (even if they weren't BP). They were all abusers in some way, even if their techniques were not as obvious.

The mistake I made, after laying out my very clear boundaries at all the beginnings, was to stick around and have them ignored over and over again, and get called an abuser myself, for sticking up for my own rights, and even bothering to argue back (at times) to defend them.

To me, if one is subjected to a lifetime of abuse, they just keep on attracting it everywhere they go, until they start resolving why it is that they do. In my own case, it came down to what I thought, (and still do) about myself.

I kept judging myself for all the 'mistakes' I had made in life, beating myself up eternally for them, and the shame was huge, low self-esteem, and the rest.

I have found it easier to be assertive about abuse in the workplace, or anywhere else in life, just romantic relationships were my bugbear.

I was looking for equality, and a man I could respect, (in some ways, for a while there, I guess I really didn't respect myself either, but hey, I am living in this century, not the 1950's).

It should be an environment where each partner can safely share their histories without fear of judgement, or double standards, and what I seemed to attract was a whole bunch of hypocrites, with double standards for themselves, and one for me.

So, I knew why I attracted BP, hell I even welcomed him in with open arms, before I knew he had BP of course. What I did know, was that like me, he was damaged goods too, I just hoped that he could love me, and we could heal them together, like many people do.

I was, and still am not, looking for a knight in shining armour, to sweep into my life, and make it all better, for a while there, I thought I was, looking for perfection, something I could never attain. Now I know, I was just looking to be loved, and love back. It really IS that simple.

[Deleted]

Some people are prepared to do this, and begin to address, whilst working on the relationship too, all praise to them, but I believe from looking at the statistics out there, that many don't, ever.

This is so true. My BPD ex on our last phone conversation told me that it's my fault that I'm hurt because I knewhow messed up she was mentally and I stayed. She did nothing wrong. For a while during the first few weeks I believed that nonsense and actually blamed myself. To a certain extent I am at fault (for reasons that I'm trying to find out myself ). However, in my case and perhaps with many of these BPD relationships, they are fully aware of their behavior and disorder, yet they seduce and go after people- projecting their toxic cloud on to their next victim while we are nearly paralyzed by them. To simplify what I'm trying to say, is that after the damge is done by them they take no part in the blame. They should of seeked help long ago OR better yet, refrain from being in a relationship in the first place!

[Murbay]

So very very true deleted.

One thing that sticks with me was the final days before I moved out. My ex had been so adamant that there was nothing wrong with her, she didn't need fixing and EVERYTHING was my fault. I sought help because I firmly believed what she was telling me. Of course you believe the person you really love, you trust them and what they tell you even when you doubt the logic behind it.

My final face to face appointment with my T and the ex was devastated that I did take her along with me. She even went as far as projecting the blame that if I truly cared I would want to work through things together but this was evidence that I didn't. Despite the fact that every time I tried to bring it up, I was accused of telling her something was wrong with her and that she needed "fixing". In the end, I told her honestly that we can only change ourselves and that as much as I wanted her to come with me, it was her choice to make and not mine.

The difficulty with it though is that, as I mentioned in previous posts, my T was originally her T and he refused to see her anymore because she was firmly in denial and it would be a waste of his time and our money. The only difference, I saw that pained look in her eyes of desperation, the feeling of abandonment towards the T (and the fact that she raged at him on a few occassions)

In the end, I offered her a compromise that I thought would benefit us both. That was to have a month apart, I would go stay with my sister and we would take a break to start the healing process since the divorce papers were already signed. After a month of reflection, we could meet up again and have a joint session with the T and decide whether to work through closure or if we could salvage a relationship. I thought it was a fair deal all around and the T agreed but it took some convincing for him to want to see her again. Afterall, it's what she was asking for in the final days but neither of us were in a healthy place to make a rational decision.

It lasted 3 days after I left before I was blamed again for trying to "fix" her, she raged at the T over the phone to the point where he was fearful for me and angry at her. Decided she wanted no further part of anything and that she was happy with who she was. Her final dig was the fact that the T had been my decision and therefore I was trying to control her.

The end result was that everybody who knew her was told I walked out on her and the kids, refused to work on anything to save the marriage and that she did everything she possibly could. I still remember that look in her eyes that final week. She knew exactly that she had a problem, was desperate to try and make things work but didn't want to take part in anything. It's that look which will always haunt me because I knew at that point she was hurting and desperate and really thought it was moments away from a breakthrough. That's where the caretaker in me tried to give it another chance and ended up being blamed, flamed and burnt just as badly.

[delgato]

Well, personally, I didn't have the best childhood, but I also certainly didn't have the worst. Core trauma for me sounds a little extreme... . But I did/do have some issues and what-not that perhaps made me more susceptible, including "lonely child," introversion, perfectionistic tendencies, some co-dependent & "fixer" mentality, experienced some boredom/mundane times in my life, lower self-esteem, etc. Just to name a few, LOL

Hey, we're all imperfect human beings, in some ways or another. Live & learn, heal & grow.


Even for those who stayed much longer, perhaps there were other reasons, such as financial, kids, etc.

I don't believe everyone who ever got involved with a pwBPD has/had core trauma. I'm sure there are some, though.


Remember, we did get involved for what seemed to be good/valid reasons at the start. Mine was attractive, intelligent, fun, outgoing, great conversationalist. Her emotionality & extroversion were, at face value, a pretty good match for my typically logical/unemotional mind & my introversion. Opposites attract, anyway. Then throw on top of all that the initial idealization & mirroring, and I was hooked & on cloud nine. I now ashamedly admit, there were times where I actually thought I was going to one day marry her & she would be the mother of my children.

Of course, her BPD (undiagnosed but extreme textbook case) reared its ugly head... . and I awoke from my dream.

I saw some good in her, and certainly didn't paint her black (as she did to me) -- but the BPD drove me away, in more ways than one. Impossible to ignore that elephant in the room.


Prior to meeting her, I had no idea what BPD was. (Did any of us, really?) My idea & understanding of mental illness was something quite different. But my involvement with her certainly changed that.


I think some here can have a tendency to blame themselves too much. Regardless of the number & depth of issues or what-not that they may or may not have, the bottom line is that we were all at one point involved with a pwBPD. And that pwBPD has been suffering from this for years & decades before they ever came into our lives... . they've spent that time honing & perfecting "their craft" of manipulation & exploitation, whether consciously or subconsciously. Throw in some of their good qualities, with the extreme initial rush, and even the strongest/healthiest person wouldn't be able to resist 100% at all times.


Enough rambling for now, LOL. But bottom line? Sure, in some cases there may be some core trauma on our part. Or perhaps even some issues or whatever, however minor they might be, that made us more susceptible. However, there are many "innocent" reasons why we might have gotten involved & stayed for a while. I think some here can be a little too harsh on themselves sometimes. We need to show ourselves more compassion.

[goldylamont]

My BPD ex on our last phone conversation told me that it's my fault that I'm hurt because I knew how messed up she was mentally and I stayed. She did nothing wrong. For a while during the first few weeks I believed that nonsense and actually blamed myself.

they are masters at making you feel this way. they seek revenge and want to punish you, ruthlessly. for what? for something you did? nope. your fault? nope. b/c of issues from their childhood that they project onto you; but it really has nothing to do with you. i just started reading some excerpt from this ebook that i may purchase called "Revenge and Punishment in BPD" written by a woman who claims to have had BPD and eventually recovered. in the same way that reading these forums have made light bulbs go off in my head, reading this book is doing the same--for once someone that had BPD actually takes responsibility for their actions. but, sadly in our case this isn't true. it was very informative for me and i think can shed some light on why your ex is currently punishing you, seemingly without reason:

www.books.google.com/books?id=IW6gJUQLKBwC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

To a certain extent I am at fault (for reasons that I'm trying to find out myself ).

i'm all for self examination, but i wouldn't be so quick to take fault or blame without it feeling real and true for you. i've been in r/s before where i did something wrong (or didn't do something right) and i got hurt b/c of it. i took responsibility and learned to behave differently. moved forward. i am also moving forward after r/s with BPD, but this time the understanding and lessons i'm learning are different. for me, the first stages of healing was finding answers to the questions "what the hell just happened?" and "why?". and also i was/am taking personal inventory on my part in everything. i think 'food for thought' is a good metaphor in this case--answering these questions is somehow putting my mind at ease, the understanding plus time passing is bringing about full acceptance of the situation. or radical acceptance as the previous author puts it.

whereas in previous r/s i could find something within myself to blame for an outcome i didn't want, it was actually really frustrating looking at my r/s with exuBPDgf because i couldn't really figure it out. and the biggest mistake i made was actually putting any stock into anything this person said about me, who i was or how i was to blame. i have problems, yes, but this is something that actual *real* friends/family of mine can point out, not a 3 year old child in a 30 year old woman's body.

stalk yourself. it's good for the soul and raises your awareness. and if you question your own behavior then do bring this up with close friends and family and get some perspective from them. but do *not* put any stock into any of the garbage this little girl is slinging at you, she's saying whatever she can to try and hurt and poison you, because for some reason which isn't your fault, she feels you deserve it. you don't

[SWLSR]

Everyone has problems  Even in our childhood.  In my case Im dyslexic.  But it deosnt mean I had core issues.  Dating a BPD or even Marrying one is going to leave us so damaged that getting over this one is gonna be tough.  Thisnone just needs to be chalked up to we were unlucky.If not we are gonna to find it hard to ever move on. 

  These people are justneveil.

[Deleted]

i have problems, yes, but this is something that actual *real* friends/family of mine can point out, not a 3 year old child in a 30 year old woman's body.

Goldylamont- Of course! we all do! I couldn't agree with you more on this quote. We all have our flaws and as a human being, I have countless flaws in every aspect and that's natural. I try my best to work on them but hey no one is perfect. I wish I could of told myself that quote while I was with her since they truly are masters of projecting failure and blame onto others than themselves and when they do it, LOL, its not sincere. On the contrary, it's more of a "yeah I'm at fault BUT SO and SO DID WORSE!, THAT PERSON MADE ME LIKE THAT!" never fully taking responsibility.

but do *not* put any stock into any of the garbage this little girl is slinging at you, she's saying whatever she can to try and hurt and poison you, because for some reason which isn't your fault, she feels you deserve it. you don't No one does. It's disgusting really. One day they love you, hate you, want your children, want a life together, they don't really know you and what you're capable of, they also try to smear how good their life is without you. You're all over the place.

Delgato,

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Well, personally, I didn't have the best childhood, but I also certainly didn't have the worst. Core trauma for me sounds a little extreme... . But I did/do have some issues and what-not that perhaps made me more susceptible, including "lonely child," introversion, perfectionistic tendencies, some co-dependent & "fixer" mentality, experienced some boredom/mundane times in my life, lower self-esteem, etc. Just to name a few, LOL

  It's completely understandable. I just don't know what to think when it comes to BPD. I've stated this before, I've read many BPD articles and a few of them push the notion that It's US and our damaged childhood issues that cause us to be with one. I actually got insulted by this. Why must I definitely be damaged to date a BPD? If a girl that I liked presented me with such deep and dark issues perhaps I was just naive,but then again thinking that way made me think that perhaps it's just me repressing something from my child hood. I'm trying to find something that occured in the past and trying to link it with this and I cannot find it. I was just stupid, young, naive, and filled with lust. I felt as if I was held captive by her, I was scared she would of done something to herself.

[Deleted]

Despite the fact that every time I tried to bring it up, I was accused of telling her something was wrong with her and that she needed "fixing".

I told my BPD ex several times that I would love to help her move foward with her life, different than move on. Moving foward would consist of accepting the past and perhaps establishing a better future for herself. How naive . She raged endlessly on how I wasn't accepting and how I thought she wasn't good enough so I want her to change etc. etc. Complete nonsense, what I tried to say didnt even go in one ear.

The end result was that everybody who knew her was told I walked out on her and the kids, refused to work on anything to save the marriage and that she did everything she possibly could. I still remember that look in her eyes that final week. She knew exactly that she had a problem, was desperate to try and make things work but didn't want to take part in anything. It's that look which will always haunt me because I knew at that point she was hurting and desperate and really thought it was moments away from a breakthrough. That's where the caretaker in me tried to give it another chance and ended up being blamed, flamed and burnt just as badly.

Murbay you have struck a cord in me with this. First off, my condolences for going through something like that  . I was never even engaged to her but I know for a fact that she did paint me black afterwards to her friends while our mutual friends got the "It just didn't work" That made my blood boil. I wanted to just go on every street corner and reveal the REAL her.  My BPDex knew she had a problem if not, several problems SHE KNEW IT! she even said it! She was scared beyond belief to face them. It's like a 3-year old girl trying to face the monster in the closet, not going to happen. I remember how my ex was devastated for a week after a friend of hers told her "you need god and help, in all honesty". I even told her that on our last phone conversation that she has severe problems and needs help as soon as possible. I know she wanted help perhaps thats why she dated me. I was different from all her other boy-toys perhaps she thought I was going to help her by being in a normal relationship? Perhaps that's why she started having sex with a couple of guys after me? I can't imagine how many in this past year of NC. That's where she is looking for help. In sex and in stupid guys (by stupid I either mean douchebags or naive guys (like me) or both!). She's not seeking help by going to a professional she's seeking help with men and that will eventually fuel the emptiness no doubt about it. My ex does not want professional help but rather laying in bed with a guy she just met 2-3 months ago and is already sleeping with him telling him she loves him in hopes of prince charming magically erasing her issues.

[mcc503764]

I must say, what a good thread this morning.  There are a lot of valuable points and I appreciate the perspective. 

I think that understanding truly understanding the dynamics of our experiences helps us to learn, gain acceptance, and truly GROW as individuals!

I guess I’ve always been a sucker for a pretty face.  I know it sounds petty, but that is my downfall.  I get so enamored by a beautiful woman, and ignore the blazing fields of red flags!  Which is the recipe for a BPD.

For me, it boils down to my own personal self-esteem issues.   That is my focus.  Once I began addressing these issues, it is amazing how much more clear things became.  This helped me to gain acceptance.  It still hurts, but the hurt is less every day and the more I write about it, I understand it.

   

Whether or not she is “true BPD,” is really irrelevant at this point.  That is not my concern, nor is it my place to even speak of it.  I can reflect on my experience and know what I went through.  I can list all of the things that I think I know about her, but then I have to question the validity of everything that she told me.  I cant go there, it’s too exhausting!

My self-esteem is the focus.  That is my “core issue.”  And when the BPD comes along with their mindgames and manipulations, that is my “trigger.”  Mine used jealousy as a weapon.  That jealousy “triggered” me to act out in many ways.

I am a giver by nature.  I show people I care by giving.  Doing things for people, because for me, that is the right way to be.  That’s who I am!  So obviously when the BPD comes along, I fall into the trap of giving until I cannot do anymore!   I sacrifice myself for the sake of others.  I obviously have a “rescuer” complex, and when the broken / damaged come along, I think I can make a difference in their life and prove myself to them.  The BPD takes advantage of this.  They have no ability to see how their actions HURT another person.  The unreciprocated r/s HURTS.  It makes you fall into the trap of thinking “there must be something wrong with me?”

I went through countless recycles with mine.  But it ultimately was good for me because it allowed me to see the issues and the dysfunction.  And all of it boils down to my self-esteem and the actions that I was tolerating from her.  I don’t like to think that mine did any of this “intentionally,” but I do have my doubts.  She is a high functioning THERAPIST, and I guess that is something that I could never grasp.  How can someone, especially someone trained and professionally licensed in mental health, not see what they do?  I guess that makes my rational head spin!  But, I digress, as this is not my cross to bear.

She is a malicious and vain person.  That’s it.  I cannot control that.  She still repeats the same patterns, so that’s how I know.  I mean how horrible of a feeling would it have been if my x went off and developed a stable / health r/s?  That is the telltale sign.  So the countless # of recycles strangely did me a favor?  It allowed me to see her for what / who she truly is.

I have resided to the fact that I will be alone.  I will take care of myself and will not let another person determine my “value.” 

MCC       

[Deleted]

MCC- glad that you enjoyed reading this and that you've arrived at a state of acceptance.

I agree with you and I've come to a place that I've accepted that who I loved cannot be helped by me or anyone. Change must come from within an all those cliches that I would read about change and being a better person , I actually understand it now rather than just scoff in derision. They helped us work on ourselves. I will never try to help a female who I just met and stay with her after presenting me issues of abuse and the banal broken home story. I simply will not. Is that cold? No and if it is I don't care. It's got me in this prolonged misery. As I realized, if you're not comfortable telling me about your bowel movements or other embarrassing but intimate things then don't tell me about your past so quickly!

[fromheeltoheal]

I too have read a lot of stuff on BPD that brings the focus back to me, which first stunned and then irritated me, but I now consider it the good news.  It's easy when learning about BPD and identifying with all the traits and behaviors to paint the pwBPD as a monster and play victim to the abuse and all the rest.  Legitimately we were victims, but getting stuck in victim and blame doesn't really help moving forward, although it feels good initially.

One thing I've learned is that we really must have meant a lot to our BPD ex because we got in deep enough to trigger them, saw a real side that most don't see.  Also, a BPD is showing us how they were treated as a kid when they do what they do, and that helped me have some compassion for her; life sucked for her right out of the gate.

And then realizing it takes two to tango, and what we had was a loaded bond, each partner pouring salt in the other's wounds.  Do we have deep seated psychological issues that require professional intervention?  Maybe.  Were we just naive and blindsided by the bait and switch?  Maybe.  In any case, I've come to accept that she's been a gift, and the pain I went through was necessary, apparently, to get through to me that I have some unfinished business, and my focus on myself and my life has changed dramatically in the last year.  So hallelujah BPD, and forward we move... .

[Deleted]

Fromheeltoheal  amazing post.

I'm not sure if I was close to my BPD because of BPD itself I don't know if it was sincere or just the BPD talking. But I guess you're right. Perhaps I meant something to her that caused her triggers.

I too am glad, this showed me personal growth and I appreciate it tremendously. I will never be the same person as before, Im working with myself to be a better person for me.