i thought we were having a nice fathers day celebration but I was wrong

[six]

i invited the grandparents, aunt, uncle and four cousins to join my family for a fathers day/graduation celebration

my DSBPD25 is one of the graduates

I was kind of busy with the food and wasnt noticing that one of the extended family members was goading my DSBPD

and kept telling DS that DS's opinions are wrong and that DS;s younger brother will outshine him if DS does not change his ways

A few of my other children tried to intercede but werent really able to stop the relative from goading DS

after everyone left, all hell broke loose and of course, the culprit is always ME

he told me how much he hates me and the worse thing that ever happened to him was that he was born to me

there is a part of me that is just numb from always being told this, and from being ambushed, bec I had no idea that anyone was bothering him and I thought we were all having a nice day

my DH says that relatives need to be taught how to interact with DS and that nobody should be permitted into the house if they are going to behave that way

is this correct?  on the one hand, I do not want anyone to come to my house and hurt my child, on the other hand, the world is not going to walk around on tiptoes, and he needs to be able to deal with people

I am just so tired and thankful to have a place to vent

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

   Hi, six  

It sounds like you had quite a day     I'm so sorry that this happened to your son, and then to you! I can tell you, I have relatives who don't understand my dBPDs36 and his troubles, and his efforts to make things better. And though he doesn't act out against me, in the past he has turned his rage and anger inward at those times, leading to major depression and suicidal thoughts  :'(  I can almost feel the winding up of the anger/pain/frustration/fear of being "less than" that your son felt; I've seen it in my own son's eyes, and heard it in his tortured voice.  :'(

I have also felt the numbness of being so blindsided by these incidents, but also the pain of wanting so badly to help my son navigate through his troubled, confusing world--but not knowing how to do so!     I can tell you, it is impossible to educate every friend, relative and stranger who comes in contact with my son on how to communicate with him correctly. If we could do that, we would be miracle workers    But, we can educate ourselves to learn how to communicate with our BPD children in order to help them learn to navigate their universe themselves... . I know your son is still working his way through understanding that he has BPD, and not with a therapist or in therapy. But, you are here, learning the skills that will hopefully get him on track... . Maybe soon    :)on't give up on that  

[js friend]

Hi Six,

Congrats on your sons graduation!

I do think your husband is right under these circumstances. I think I would also feel pretty p*&$d  if someone came into my home and insulted me too. As we all know your ds graduation is major achievement for him and it is just a pity that his day was ruined by others measure success by others achievments.

I think you ds did well to hold it toggether. If it were my dd I think she would have either walked out or bust into tears.Our ds/dd have very thin emotional skins and  just dont have the emotional tools to deal with conflict other than dysregulation. Take care of yourself and try not to take what your ds says personally during this time. He is just letting off steam and it will soon pass.

Although we cant educate everyone your ds will meet in his life about BPD we can take steps to manage what behaviours go on in our homes with the house rules we make.  One of my house rules is respect for one another.

This covers how we speak to one another and respecting others belongings.

It was really a rule that I needed to address dd taking my thinghs without permission, but I didnt want her to feel was being singled out or attacked... . She did keep taking my things but it was easier to remind her of the houserules than to endlessly argue back and forth again for the millionth time. If it is written down fro all to see dd cant say she didnt know about it.

 

I think it would be worth a gentle reminder to your guests of your house rules next time there is a family gathering. Nothing too heavy just a few rules... . e.g .If  there are small children who like to run around while eating; one of the rules could be to sit down while eating and another to listen to, and speak to each other respectfully (which covers the teasing, and any yelling).

good luck:)

jsf

[six]

thanks for the response Rapt and Jfriend.  I appreciate what you said about him turning his rage on me and not on himself.  I agree that this is preferable.  I dont want him to hurt himself.  Also appreciate that he held it together during the "party" and let loose later. 

I called him a few hours later to see how he was doing and he had calmed down.  I asked him if he could tell me why thing s change from moment to moment as it is confusing to me to see that he seems happy one moment and then raging at me the next (he didnt know that I knew about what had happened with our guests.  i was wondering whether he could make the connection between what someone else said to him and the rage he exhibited toward me)

he said it was hard to explain why he exploded and he thinks it is because I have made it clear that he can not live in our house, and he is inconvenienced because he has to drive to his grandparents' home 2 hours away

i was grateful that i could have a calm conversation with him about what happened.  is it possible for me to address the issue of his rage and try to  help him come to another solution for when he is diregulated?  i assume that this is what is learned in dbt, but I dont have experience with dbt so not sure how i would approach this even if it was possible. or should I just accept that for now this is reality of having him as my son, and try to move on and not get bogged down by it?

[Kate4queen]

I had something similar with my son when we were in the UK visiting his grandmother. One of her friends started talking to him as if he was mentally deficient-she's an older lady and I think she was trying to be nice. Anyway, one second after he was very charming to her, he came in to find me and all hell broke loose. He picked a fight with me, made the other lady into not the problem and made it all about me being such a terrible person and awful mother.

My mum, his granny tried to intervene but of course it just made it worse.

The weird thing is, I used to always try and blame others for setting my son off-even his siblings and seeing him in that new context and how shocked my mum was to see how he talked to me was quite eye opening in another way. I'd grown so used to being abused by him that all I tried to do was placate him and stop him hurting others in the family. In that situation, not even being in my own home, I had no where to go and just had to take his hate and rage.

Of course, when he'd offloaded all his rage into me, he was okay again and ready to cry and make up. It was the first time that I realized I wasn't ready to do that and a turning point in our relationship. Seeing him through the horrified eyes of my mum  enabled me to see him as the problem and not me and how distorted my world view had become catering to him. It enable me to go back home and draw new boundaries and reconnect with my husband.

If I were you, I'd take some time to think this through and set new boundaries for what you are prepared to put up with in public situations. I don't think you can set them for him, just for yourself.

[griz]

Now I want to preface this by saying that I think we should have boundaries but it always seems to me that they rage or carry on with those the feel the most comfortable with showing emotion to.  It may not be the "proper" emotion but it is emotion.  I think you need to also set boundaries in what you will allow in your home.  My mom used to always goad my older daughter (nonBPD).  She was the only granddaughter until DD came along and once DD was born my mom would always start up with my older one.  Just needleing her in the most unpleasant ways to push her buttons.  Every holiday was ruined for my older daughter because my mom did this.  Finally one Christmas Even I had enough.  I was not going to allow anyone to treat ANYONE in my family inappropriately.  So the first time I asked my mom nicely to stop when it continued I asked again. By the third time she had pushed my older one (9 at the time) to tears and I told her not so nicely that she had two choices, she could stop it immediately or she could leave.   She choose to leave.  It was hard for me because it was Christmas Eve but I also needed to have boundaries in my house.  My daughter usually handled it pretty well but could you imagine what that would be like for our already fragile BPD children. 

My heart just broke thinking about you son sitting there being goaded and compared to his brother.  Kudos for him for holding it together but I guess his emotions needed to come out somewhere and unfortunetly it was you.  Can you speak with him about this?  Maybe saying something like, "I did not like the way so and so was speaking to  you and I am not going to allow that to happen again". "How did you feel when you were being spoken to that way?  " That would have made me so angry, do you think that is part of why you were upset afterwards? 

Maybe he would open up to you about it and you could come up with a clear way to handle those feelings.  I am not by nature a very forceful person and I had to learn to set boundaries for myself when people hurt me.  I have learned here how to get better at it but it is very hard.  Maybe it is very hard for your son as well.

Just some thoughts

Griz

[DreamFlyer99]

As the wife of an uBPD husband, I'm so appreciative of the struggle of "what do I take and what do I limit?" My therapist is forever trying to get me to understand boundaries, just as these other lovely people are talking about. I never used to understand that other people get to feel how they feel but I don't have to feel their goo all over me when they GET that feeling. I like what was said about setting limits with guests in your home, and I know how awkward that can feel to do, but honestly, some people just don't get the stuff you'd think they'd understand, like being goading in the first place! And I like what's been said about setting limits about being the recipient of the "goo" and that's something I'm trying to learn. I too realize how long I've sat and listened to my husband's tantrum and thought later, "what's wrong with me that I put up with that?"

i'm starting to LIKE that there is so much more to learn!

[griz]

i'm starting to LIKE that there is so much more to learn![/quote]
So many wonderful things to learn here on the board.  I think if there way an Olympic team for allowing people to cross my boundaries I would be a gold medalist.  I have learned to not allow that anymore.  I have learned to care for myself, something I have never done.  I have learned that others needs don't have to ALWAYS come before mine.  And the biggest thing I have learned being here is that it is okay to not be perfect and not have a perfect child.  It is okay to be broken sometimes and it is wonderful to have people who don't care that you are broken but still find goodness in you.

I learn more every day and even though my life is not what I thought it would be I am a work in progress and I thank you all for caring for me when I say something stupid, when I make a mistake, when I don't know how to handle a situation, when I am sad and when I am happy. 

Griz

[griz]

and when I can't quite get the hang of the quote thing... . no matter how hard I try.

Griz

[Rapt Reader]

i was grateful that i could have a calm conversation with him about what happened.  is it possible for me to address the issue of his rage and try to  help him come to another solution for when he is diregulated?  i assume that this is what is learned in dbt, but I dont have experience with dbt so not sure how i would approach this even if it was possible. or should I just accept that for now this is reality of having him as my son, and try to move on and not get bogged down by it?

I'm glad to hear that you were able to talk to him afterwards; that has got to be a comfort to you after all the harsh words you'd had to deal with earlier from him.   I forget what books you've read so far... . Have you read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better"? They helped me VERY much in dealing with my son. I'm just finishing another book, "The Everything Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder" that is REALLY very good, and it does give a good overview of DBT, Mindful Meditation & Holistic Meditation techniques. In fact, it might be something your son would read? It's for both loved ones of BPD sufferers and the sufferers themselves; my own son leafed through it before I started reading it, and is planning on reading it next. I think that it will be of interest to him, and can see that it should really help him with the understanding he is gaining about how his brain works (he loves this stuff! I'm lucky  ).

I do believe that eventually you will be able to help him with this... . Although he's still prone to these rages and dysfunctional thinking, it really CAN get better once he accepts that he needs help and if he can open-mindedly go to treatment. Have you ever looked into Neurofeedback Therapy? Do you think that he would have some sort of interest in that? For some reason, my son really is into it and finds it fascinating and so helpful that he's starting to talk about "when I don't have BPD anymore... . " It is working THAT well for him  If your son has any knowledge or interest in the way the brain is wired and how it works, maybe he would be willing to look into it? Here's a website that has links to explain it: www.eeginfo.com  The type of Neurofeedback Therapy that my own son is using is called The Cignet system; the website has practitioners of another kind, too (Zengar), but Cignet is all I know about. The thing is, it will only work if the patient wants it; they have to be VERY honest with the Neurofeedback Therapist in order for the right things to happen. I've seen it with my own eyes... .

You know, yes... . for now, the reality is that this is the way your son is, and in order to live your life you do have to accept it, and live your life. But, does it have to stay this way forever? No. No. I refused to believe that, and then the miracle happened, and things have changed.   

[DreamFlyer99]

i was grateful that i could have a calm conversation with him about what happened.  is it possible for me to address the issue of his rage and try to  help him come to another solution for when he is diregulated?  i assume that this is what is learned in dbt, but I dont have experience with dbt so not sure how i would approach this even if it was possible. or should I just accept that for now this is reality of having him as my son, and try to move on and not get bogged down by it?

You know, yes... . for now, the reality is that this is the way your son is, and in order to live your life you do have to accept it, and live your life. But, does it have to stay this way forever? No. No. I refused to believe that, and then the miracle happened, and things have changed.   

I so WANT to believe there is the possibility of a miracle--I never thought to have a different relationship than with my H--but it's hard to feel like I can keep going forward in this same mud pit in which I find myself. I've gotten freaked out by the feeling that my T and my psychiatrist both seem to want me to "have some time apart" because I want this to work out and improve. So i'm glad to see so many signs that things can change given time. Even if i'm the only one working on the relationship.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[six]

I appreciate the responses and the help in processing thru this latest event

also all the support and the kind wishes, means so much

I am thinking a lot about what boundaries, if any I want to put inplace

as my son was raging at me, he made a point of saying, I am not going to use any swear words, and he did not

I am very sensitive to him swearing at me and about me

and it made a difference to me that he held back from using those words

I felt that he was trying to respect my boundaries even though he was still raging at me. when I see him I wil tell him this.

I guess there is a part of me that figures if I can "get away" with just raging at me and no self-injury, or attacking of my other kids, or other perhaps more destructiv e behaviors I should consider myself lucky.  While he was raging at me, I told myself, he is suffering so much and he is trying to alleviate some of his pain by making me feel pain.   I focussed on him and not on myself and I did not feel as bad as usual.  I also did not say anything hurtful to him, but just asked him if something had happened to make him so angry (he did not answer)

I would like to broach the topic of neurofeedback with him.  he has decided to see a psychoanalyst which I think is a positive move for him but I am afraid of asking too much and getting into an argument about  whose brain needs to be re-wired, his or mine

[jellibeans]

Well I think we all have stories of how a relative has tried to help our children by giving advise. How unfortunate that you ds had to be confronted in this way on his graduation. Breaks my heart and the way he responded after towards you is a sad result of him not knowing what to do with all the pain that family member caused.

Although it is probably hard to set down rules for gatherings it might have been good if someone alerted you to the conversation going on. Could you have a plan with your son that next time he finds himself in this kind of situation that he have a plan to escape... . excuse himself to go to the restroom or some kind of signal that can alert you that he needs help. My dd had a signal in class that told her teacher to slow down... . she just raised one finger... . could there be a silent signal for you ds? Crossed arms?

It is good to recognize that your ds is trying... . although the raging is not pleasant he did show some effort by not swearing. Baby steps... . try and learn from this and go on... .