Husband coming home - need tools

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

H is coming home within a few days.  We've been separated for a few months. During this time, I've been reading the lessons and reading about SET, but need more "SET responses" to keep with me at all times as my "go to" responses whenever H says something insulting, needy, etc.

The following are likely sentences that H will throw at me over the next week:

"You were supposed to fix the broken relationship between our son and me."  (H got into a physical altercation with this son last August. H was the total instigator, but will only blame our son and expects son to apologize and expects me to DEMAND/force son to apologize.

"you were supposed to compliment me more."   (H lives for compliments.  I come from a modest Catholic family who didn't believe in giving too many compliments about appearance because that was considered vain or conceited.  Compliments were reserved for actions and good works, not appearance.)   However, last November I started to force myself to throw out compliments as much as I could, but it was never enough.

"We were supposed to have sex more often, but you were passive agressive and kept denying me."  I DID try to get things going more often, but H's alcoholism and misuse of Rx meds would cause ED problems.  

"you're acting very passive agressive"  (H will say this a lot about anything/everything.)

(I do have some medically-documennted hearing loss.)  "You need to do a better job listening to me."

"Stop interupting me."  ( I do interupt because H will speak non-stop for 20 minutes and I need to respond long before that.)

'you put everyone before me."  (I don't... . not at all.)

"you don't do enough for me."   (I wait on him hand and foot)

I'll think of more... .

[SadWifeofBPD]

H is coming home within a few days.  We've been separated for a few months. During this time, I've been reading the lessons and reading about SET, but need more "SET responses" to keep with me at all times as my "go to" responses whenever H says something insulting, needy, etc.

The following are likely sentences that H will throw at me over the next week:

"You were supposed to fix the broken relationship between our son and me."  (H got into a physical altercation with this son last August. H was the total instigator, but will only blame our son and expects son to apologize and expects me to DEMAND/force son to apologize.

"you were supposed to compliment me more."   (H lives for compliments.  I come from a modest Catholic family who didn't believe in giving too many compliments about appearance because that was considered vain or conceited.  Compliments were reserved for actions and good works, not appearance.)   However, last November I started to force myself to throw out compliments as much as I could, but it was never enough.

"We were supposed to have sex more often, but you were passive agressive and kept denying me."  I DID try to get things going more often, but H's alcoholism and misuse of Rx meds would cause ED problems.  

"you're acting very passive agressive"  (H will say this a lot about anything/everything.)

(I do have some medically-documennted hearing loss.)  "You need to do a better job listening to me."

"Stop interupting me."  ( I do interupt because H will speak non-stop for 20 minutes and I need to respond long before that.)

'you put everyone before me."  (I don't... . not at all.)

"you don't do enough for me."   (I wait on him hand and foot)

I'll think of more... .

[rollercoaster24]

Hi SadWifeofBPD

Sorry to hear you are going through this, honestly, I could cut and paste what you just wrote, and put it on a post of my own.

Same words, (similar situation).

Same ultimatims

I really do hope you have luck in trying out all the techniques here, SET, don't JADE, and the others.

One thing, don't tolerate ANY abuse. The minute he starts ranting/raging/picking just 'detach' and if that doesn't work, and he gets worse, please make sure you have a plan of action, and an easy escape route, so if he refuses to calm down or take time out, at least you can!

What are your ultimatims for him?

Have you given him a list?

What would be on yours if you haven't?

Try it. Because what you just described almost mirrors the conversation I had with my exBP yesterday. His ultimatims, his abuse, (after him dumping me and ignoring me for 3 weeks!) Somehow that is my doing? WTH?

And yet, why did we break up? Because he verbally abused me, deprived me of sleep, and then assaulted me, (threatening my life) smashed my personal property in my possession at the time. All because I stood up to him, and still, he blames this on me, yet he had invited me to see him, because he missed me and needed to see me and cuddle me?

Please, write a list of your own, and give it to him!

[SadWifeofBPD]

I really do hope you have luck in trying out all the techniques here, SET, don't JADE, and the others.

I do need help with the SET responses. I know I'll do better if I have some "go to" responses, rather than having to stop and try to think of them.  Whenever I pause to think, H thinks I'm "coming up with some lie."

JADE is a huge problem for me.  When attacked about something that isn't true, or has been twisted into something bad (when it wasn't a bad action), then my "gut response" is to justify, etc. 

[SadWifeofBPD]

H called last night. It's the first time I've talked to him since the end of March. He's going to try to come home on Saturday (he's in another state right now).

Please, help me with some SET responses... . I really need help here. 

thanks!

[Newton]

Hey   It's a little difficult to help without having particular sentences from him.

I found SET very clunky at first... . so I would only use it in txts... . it's also hard to use when your partner is throwing curve balls at you in a face to face conversation... .

My girlfriend was also very adept at knowing I was using SET and would escalate the dynamic of the conversation to counteract it! (or she would suggest I was being sarcastic... . it's really important to have faith in the "truth" part of SET sentences).

It will take time for SET to become natural... . perhaps try not to put too much pressure on yourself to learn it quickly.  It's not a cure all, it's just another tool along with JADE,PUVAS, DEARMAN, boundaries etc etc! phew!  ;  

Validation can also make a huge difference, I appreciate your post was about SET, but I'd really work hard on this too.

I found that practicing SET sentences to myself, in response to imaginary scenarios really helped.  Once the sentence structure becomes ingrained it's much easier to do instead of trying to pre prepare answers... . does that make sense?

[imrealafterall]

Friends... . what are these SET and JADE "rules" you speak of? I must read this. It  must be something I've missed in my readings on here.

And to the original poster... . sounds just like my bf... . grrrrrr

[SadWifeofBPD]

Hey   It's a little difficult to help without having particular sentences from him.

Read my first post, I have the sentences there.

Thanks in advance!

[Newton]

I guess my point is that formulating a response to sentences which have already happened seems a little redundant now.  The FORMULA is important to learn... .

In addition, SET wouldn't necessarily be the only option when looking back at some of the sentences you shared... . perhaps a combination of boundaries and validation?... .

If you were learning french today as you had a vacation to France this weekend... . how much do you think you could remember, and use to be understood?... . A "crash course" in anything is going to come across as just that when you try it out... . especially with someone with an amazingly fine tuned bs radar like someone with BPD.

I appreciate you are under pressure from him returning... . I'm not trying to be discouraging, the techniques here work!  They take time, and effort.

ps... . imrealafterall... . if you private message an ambassador they will point you in the right direction to read up on these communication techniques 

[SadWifeofBPD]

I guess my point is that formulating a response to sentences which have already happened seems a little redundant now.  The FORMULA is important to learn... .

In addition, SET wouldn't necessarily be the only option when looking back at some of the sentences you shared... . perhaps a combination of boundaries and validation?... .

If you were learning french today as you had a vacation to France this weekend... . how much do you think you could remember, and use to be understood?... . A "crash course" in anything is going to come across as just that when you try it out... . especially with someone with an amazingly fine tuned bs radar like someone with BPD.

I appreciate you are under pressure from him returning... . I'm not trying to be discouraging, the techniques here work!  They take time, and effort.

ps... . imrealafterall... . if you private message an ambassador they will point you in the right direction to read up on these communication techniques 

The sentences I listed are words that I believe that he WILL SAY this weekend.  So, it's preparation for the future, not prep for sentences that were said.

As for remembering the responses, I would. I'm not trying to learn a foreign language with unfamiliar words and pronunciations. 

[123Phoebe]

Hi SadWife

Sounds like you're a little anxious about your H's arrival?  It's understandable considering what all's been going on.  The thing is though, SET is only one communication tool that if applied incorrectly can turn fast into JADE.  I think I'd focus a little more on not JADEing and invalidation/validation.

What might help more than any of us giving you go-to responses, would be to type out your usual responses to H's comments and to accept some of our feedback... .   It really helps to take the focus off the other person and put it directly on ourselves.

It's hard, but so worth it

[SadWifeofBPD]

H is coming home within a few days.  We've been separated for a few months. During this time, I've been reading the lessons and reading about SET, but need more "SET responses" to keep with me at all times as my "go to" responses whenever H says something insulting, needy, etc.

The following are likely sentences that H will throw at me over the next week with my typical JADE (wrong) responses - which need to change, I know:


"You were supposed to fix the broken relationship between our son and me."  (H got into a physical altercation with this son last August. H was the total instigator, but will only blame our son and expects son to apologize and expects me to DEMAND/force son to apologize.


I can't make our son apologize to you. I know that you think I can force him, but he's 22 years old, he lives on his own, I can't force him to do anything.  Also, he doesn't think he should have to apologize since he believes that you started the altercation.


(Then, H will typically ask me if I think he started the altercation, and I'll say yes, because H started yelling and H grabbed son's shoulder with one hand put his fist under our son's chin with the other hand.  Of course, my answer makes H very mad, as well)


"you were supposed to compliment me more."   (H lives for compliments.  I come from a modest Catholic family who didn't believe in giving too many compliments about appearance because that was considered vain or conceited.  Compliments were reserved for actions and good works, not appearance.)   However, last November I started to force myself to throw out compliments as much as I could, but it was never enough.


I have been giving you compliments every day. I've complimented you when you got your haircut, when you've been dressed nicely, and when you wear short and your legs look cute.  I have been complimenting you a LOT more, but it seems to be a memoryless system. 


"We were supposed to have sex more often, but you were passive agressive and kept denying me."  I DID try to get things going more often, but H's alcoholism and misuse of Rx meds would cause ED problems. 


During the weeks before we separated, I tried to get things going sexually more often, and either 3 things happened:  1) you couldn't perform because of the meds you take.  2) you said that you were too tired.  3) you insulted or raged at me, so that made it too hard for me to be in the mood.


"you're acting very passive agressive"  (H will say this a lot about anything/everything.)

I am not acting passive agressively. When you say things that hurt my feelings, then I'm not going to be affectionate.  I'm going to leave for awhile or stay away from you. 


(I do have some medically-documennted hearing loss.)  "You need to do a better job listening to me."

"You know that I have trouble hearing when there are other noises going on in the room:  TV, Stereo, washing machine, etc.   And,  I really have trouble hearing you when you're inside your walk-in closet in the bedroom, and you say something to me when I'm in the kitchen.  I'm just too far away.  Lastly, you have a tendency to mumble, which makes it harder for me to hear you.  Also, I wish you would say my name first, to get my attention rather than just start talking so that I can be alerted that you're about to tell me something (he refuses to do this). 


"Stop interupting me."  ( I do interupt because H will speak non-stop for 20 minutes and I need to respond long before that.)


I have to interupt you sometimes because you talk for too long and I need to say something or ask for clarification.  Also, if you're on the wrong track (accusing me of something that I didn't do) I'm not going to listen thru 60 minutes of lecturing and then say, "Oh, I didnt' do that, XXXXX did that."  That would be stupid.


'you put everyone before me."  (I don't... . not at all.)


I try to put you first all of the time, however, if someone has a very immediate need (such as my cancer friend needing to be picked up from chemo treatment), then at that moment, I do have to help that person first... . because of a timing issue. 


"you don't do enough for me."   (I wait on him hand and foot)


Everyone who sees us comments that I wait on you hand and foot and that I do more for you than any wife they know. 

[123Phoebe]

'you put everyone before me."  (I don't... . not at all.)

"you don't do enough for me."   (I wait on him hand and foot)

We were supposed to have sex more often, but you were passive agressive and kept denying me."  I DID try to get things going more often, but H's alcoholism and misuse of Rx meds would cause ED problems. 

Okay, from what you've mentioned, I see a woman that even though she argues with her husband because the things he does drive her crazy (alcoholic, misuses Rx drugs, gets into physical altercations with their son... . ) she's still willing to... .

Put him first all of the time, compliment him as much as she can, wait on him hand and foot and initiate sex with him.

This might be more a boundary issue than anything, SadWife.

Does his behavior coincide with your values?

What are you hoping to happen with SET tools?

 

[SadWifeofBPD]

This might be more a boundary issue than anything, SadWife.

Does his behavior coincide with your values?

What are you hoping to happen with SET tools?

It may be a boundary issue. I'm not sure. I'm not sure about boundaries at all. They all seem blurred.


I'm hoping that the SET tools will give me the right sentence structure to keep things on a more even keel.

I come from a family that had no PDs or mental illnesses. We didn't walk on eggshells ever.    We were direct, and to the point.

I was always mystified by my husband who would say something like, "before you criticize, you need to say something positive about me first."   I didn't understand that, but now that I know that he has a PD, I can see that he needs a whole paragraph of positives before he'll be willing to hear a negative.

[123Phoebe]

now that I know that he has a PD, I can see that he needs a whole paragraph of positives before he'll be willing to hear a negative.

Hi SadWife,

Well, kinda, but with just a bit of tweaking

Only have time to work on one response right now.  Not sure if it's a little too much, maybe someone else will chime in. 

Think of it like 'active listening', as opposed to 'reactively explaining' anything. 

Your H is not really much different than anyone else.  He wants to feel heard and understood, his way of going about it though is more so 

Have you ever wished somebody could make things all better without you having to put the hard necessary work into it?  I have.  It might be a bit delusional on my part to think this way occasionally, but hey, I'm human and don't have BPD.  So I try to really imagine what it must feel like to have it, or to remember a time when I was wanting someone to do something for me = ability to empathize.

"You were supposed to fix the broken relationship between our son and me."

I can understand how being disconnected from son's name would feel upsetting.  I imagine it hurts a great deal and would like nothing more than for the two of you to repair your relationship.  I love you both so much.  This is something that's out of my hands though, it would need to be worked out between son's name and you.


Hope this helps a little  




   

[SadWifeofBPD]

^^^

Yes, that is what I'm leaning towards saying.  I do have this other issue with that.  I had promised to help smooth things out between the two.  I tried, but since H wouldn't budge on admitting his role, and our son sure wasn't going to take the blame, I wasn't able to get that done.

but, H views the "promise" to help as a promise for success.  He's not able to see the fine distinction.


Another issue is that when I have done something wrong, and I apologize, then H will bring it up again LATER, and then he'll say that I never apologized.  And, if I can prove that I did (show email or whatever), then he'll say that I didn't really mean it... . that my apology was hollow. 

[123Phoebe]

I had promised to help smooth things out between the two. 

H views the "promise" to help as a promise for success. 

This is when you eat humble pie and admit to making a promise that wasn't yours to make.

"I made a promise to help the two of you heal your relationship, I thought of myself as Superwoman; I am obviously not.  It was not my place to make a promise that wasn't mine to make and I apologize for possibly getting your hopes up.  I get the impression that you feel I've failed you in some way; is this correct?"

((Stop and really listen to his response))

Then repeat, "I would like nothing more than for the two of you to repair your relationship.  I love you both so much.  This is something that's out of my hands though, it will need to be worked out between son's name and you".

If he keeps persisting, tell him that you don't wish to discuss this topic any longer (your boundary).  You've said all that needs to be said and you know there's nothing you can do to repair their relationship, ya know?  Let it go.  You might have to walk into another room or go outside or something if he keeps up with it.  But that particular conversation will now be off limits.

Another issue is that when I have done something wrong, and I apologize, then H will bring it up again LATER, and then he'll say that I never apologized.  And, if I can prove that I did (show email or whatever), then he'll say that I didn't really mean it... . that my apology was hollow. 

Same type of thing.

If you've already apologized once and you truly feel it was heartfelt, no need to keep the drama going by proving anything. 

"I understand that it felt hollow to you and that has to feel yucky.  Hollow apologies are no fun being on the receiving end of.  I meant it when I said I was sorry and hope that in time we can come to a better understanding of each other.  It would mean so much to me".

Is this helping, SadWife?  Is it changing your perspective at all?

[SadWifeofBPD]

I very much like your answers and I will use them.

H does think of me as super woman.  My sister, a T, insists that my H thinks that I have special powers... . almost how a little child will think mommy can make everything better.

He once yelled at me because a friend and her husband took their vacation at a "bad time" for us. H said that I should have been able to stop them. 

[123Phoebe]

H does think of me as super woman.  My sister, a T, insists that my H thinks that I have special powers... . almost how a little child will think mommy can make everything better.

This is when focusing on yourself will help a lot.

Have you tried to prove that you are super woman?  Thereby, giving H the impression that it's okay to think this way, too?

Stepping into other people quarrels, thinking (sometimes not even thinking) that we have a fighting chance to change history, the future and circumstance is akin to thinking we're Super Heroes   I used to do it ALL THE TIME in my FOO.  Shew, looking back I don't even recognize myself.  I was anxiety-ridden, guilt-ridden, unhappy, mad as hell and all because I held some false belief that if only they'd listen to reason (My reason), things could be all better.  It was magical thinking of my own   I sure didn't feel strong and powerful in the midst of it or the aftermath.  I felt weak and confused and defeated.

Acceptance is a wonderful gift.  That we're not all that and a bag of chips and it's okay.  We're responsible for ourselves and our own destiny... .   Involving ourselves in other people's turmoil is sure to bring us down, because we cannot control what other people choose to do... .   The choice is always ours for how involved we decide to get... .   And then we have the consequences to deal with.  It's how we learn

Let others learn their lessons their own way... .   Detach with

[SadWifeofBPD]

Exhausted... . Just had a 3 hour phone conversation with H.

I used SET as much as I could.  I caught myself doing JADE a few times, and tried to correct.

As soon as I would use SET to express Support, Empathy, Truth, he would just jump to a new subject of anger.  It was just a marathon of going from subject to subject, me doing SET, H never giving an inch.  He'd just move on to another thing to complain about.

[123Phoebe]

As soon as I would use SET to express Support, Empathy, Truth, he would just jump to a new subject of anger.  

At any time did you 'validate' his anger?  "Sounds like you're pretty angry".

And if you say that he wouldn't let you, I'll call you out on it

I guess I'm wondering why you chose to stay on the phone with an angry H for 3 hours?  No wonder you're exhausted!

Boundary time, SadWife.  

What are your boundaries?  Until you know what they are, you can expect more marathon angry exchanges between the two of you.  The change has to come from within you.

Have you read the Lessons on the Staying Board?  Excellent information.

[SadWifeofBPD]

Yes, I did validate his anger.

Update... .

H called back about an hour after I posted and was much more calmed down. We talked for another few hours and that was peaceful.  It's like he has to be a lion first, before he can calm down like lamb.

I used SET a lot today.

[123Phoebe]

I'm very glad to hear that the two of you were able to have a peaceful conversation

[briefcase]

Some basic "support" statements to keep in your hip pocket:

I want to help you

I love you

I'm here for you

I'd like to work with you to solve this

The "empathy" can be trickier and generally has to relate to whatever it is you are hearing him express.  Generally this is about validation:

this (whatever it is) must be hard for you

I see why you feel (whatever emotion you are hearing)

you sound really (whatever emotion he sounds like) about this

I understand your perspective on this

I can see your point



And then the "Truth" is where we say what we need to say (its best if you don't preface your truth with the word "but" or any other lead in that negates the S and the E).

I can't make son do anything, you'll have to work it out with him

It's hard for me to initiate sex when you are under the influence

Keep in mind, SET is really a tool we use to tell someone something difficult in a way that will be less triggering.  I usually use SET to start a conversation or make my point in a difficult conversation.  For most of what my wife says, I can ususally just validate without really delivering my "truth" (which, if we aren't careful, can easily just become a nicer and less triggering way to JADE).  Here's what I mean:

Him:  You never compliment me!

You (using SET):  I'd like to help you with this.  I know how good it feels to get a compliment.  I feel like I compliment you all the time now.  

Him:  No you don't.

There isn't really any point to that conversation, is there?  Wouldn't this be better:

Him:  You never compliment me!

You (sticking with validation):  You sound upset.  Are you feeling overlooked somehow?

Him:  Yes!  I'm wearing my new shirt and you didn't notice.

You:  You're right!  You look good in pink!

Also, keep in mind that this stuff is hard to do on the fly and takes a lot of practice before it feels natural.  It rarely goes this smooth in real life.  It took me a loong time to get the hang of this and I still mess it up.     Have you watched the Fruzetti video on validation in the Lessons?  Its worth it.

good luck.

 

[SadWifeofBPD]

Thanks!

When the compliments issue came up yesterday, after he realized that I had been complimenting him, he "changed gears" and said, "well, you don't show enough appreciation for all that I do (supporting the family/working). 


Then he complained that he didn't have a car charger for his cell phone. He began whining that "everyone in the family has a car charger" but him.  The fact is that he earned 10 times more than I do, and he can afford to go out and buy a carload of car chargers anytime he wants.  Not only is it not my job to buy his car chargers, but he got this new phone while we were separated so any needed car charger would mean that HE would HAVE to go buy it because we weren't together. 

Oh, and he also complained about his new phone. He hated the cell phone that he had before (and the cell phone company - which he blamed me for picking), so he went out and got a new plan with a new cell phone company (which his brother recommended) and a new phone (which brother recommended) and now he hates that phone and company as well.  He then whined that everyone gives him bad advice and makes bad choices for him.  Ugh.

[SadWifeofBPD]

The good news is that H's brother is on his way of being painted black (thank god... . ).   H's brother and his wife (also soon to be black) have been meddling in our marriage for a few years now and has cost us thousands and thousands of dollars.  Everytime there has been communication between his brother and H, his brother convinces H to file for divorce.  All those filings and attorneys fees has cost us both tens of thousands of dollars... . only to have each filing stopped after H stops painting me black. 

Recently I avoided being served with divorce papers again by moving to an undisclosed location (to avoid me having to hire another atty), because I knew that after a few months, H would calm down and come home.  H spent last week with his brother and brother's wife, and they had a few spats so now they are nearly black.  Of course H now worries about how bro and wife will react when they find out that H has returned to me.  I am and always will be H's rock. H's relatives hate me only because they don't know me... . they only know of the lies he tells when I'm painted black black black (no white at all... . )

I now need to communicate with H that he needs to cut ties with his brother ... . to the extent that his brother bad-mouths me.  Our last reconciliation was sabotaged by his brother's constant barage (phone calls and emails) about how terrible I am and how H shouldn't stop the divorce.  H finally succumbed to his brother's demands, moved out, and refiled.  At this point, H will be contacting his attorney (again) to stop the proceedings (his attorney is starting to realize that she has a nut on her hands).   The last time proceedings were stopped, his attorney told my attorney that she was glad to be rid of my H.  . 

During our last reconciliation, H was in a very good and happy mood.  H's brother called and spent two hours bad-mouthing me to the point that H began drinking and dysregulating. After that phone call, H began raging to the point that our son called the police. It was shocking because I didn't know at the time that his brother had called, so I didnt know what had set H off.

[lbjnltx]

Hi SadWife   

So sorry that you are having to deal with a disruptive family member in addition to the difficulties with your husband.  That must add to the burden and conflicting dynamics of your relationship(s).  How do you think telling your husband to cut ties with his brother will work out short term?  Long term?

We would like to continue to support you as you learn ways to reduce conflict, validate, set boundaries, and improve your relationship/level of personal peace.  It's all so very difficult and requires learning so much.  The key to success in all of this learning is letting go of being right and putting the relationship first.  Is this something you are willing to do?

The first paragraph I just wrote is a validating statement followed by a validating question... . it shows that I understand your dilemna and that you have been heard and understood.  Feels good yes? The validating question keeps the problem where it belongs... . with you and opens the door to thinking things through, continued communication, and wiseminded decision making (hopefully )

The second paragraph is written in SET format and ends with a question that can lead to growth.

What do you think?

[SadWifeofBPD]

So sorry that you are having to deal with a disruptive family member in addition to the difficulties with your husband.  That must add to the burden and conflicting dynamics of your relationship(s).  How do you think telling your husband to cut ties with his brother will work out short term?  Long term?

We would like to continue to support you as you learn ways to reduce conflict, validate, set boundaries, and improve your relationship/level of personal peace.  It's all so very difficult and requires learning so much.  The key to success in all of this learning is letting go of being right and putting the relationship first.  Is this something you are willing to do?

Yes, the Validating para and the SET para are well done.  I agree with letting go with "being right" is key.

H is now home and things are going very well.  He has said a few untrue statements (not about me, but about things in general, and I've just let them pass.   H is still very anxious about telling his atty (again!) to cancel the divorce proceedings (this will be the FOURTH time!) and he's embarrassed about that.  He's also embarrassed to tell his family (again)  that he's not divorcing me. 

As for having H not talking to his brother, he's fine with that (for now).  For 25 years, H rarely EVER spoke to his brother, which is why his brother knows NOTHING about me that is real.  It's only been in the last few years when H has been drinking and dysregulating more that he's been calling his brother to say that I'm evil.     When I'm painted black I might as well be Hitler's sister for how H talks about me.