The failed romantic...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

There's a quote out there, something about "nothing is sadder than a failed romantic," though I'm sure I've gotten it wrong.

A couple nights ago I watched "Somewhere in Time" with some folks from a local Meetup.  It was actually very depressing--not just the ending, but the whole idea.  I realized that I had had that kind of love with my ex-BPD--that perfect, forever, meant to be with a soulmate--and that it doesn't exist.  I felt like the whole thing was just a lie, and the best I could ever really hope for was a "teammate" who had my back, someone who cared for me and me for him, sexual but more friendly than anything else.  And I felt just sickened at this.

I read a profile on a dating website with someone who said he wanted a great love, that sort of love where "it HURTS when you are apart," he had had this when he was too young to appreciate it and knows it's "real" and it's out there.

I immediately quit reading the profile.  That was a huge  to me and I wondered... . should it be?  Should I be leery of anyone who thinks that "true love" can happen? 

I'm talking to a couple of people online, getting out and making friends through Meetup.  I'm interested in dating, and part of me DOES want to find someone, and part of me is terrified of it. 

I guess this is  !

I want to feel those wonderful falling-in-love endorphins but I think I'll clamp down too hard when I start to feel them because I am terrified of getting into another situation like the one with my ex.  And at the same time, I don't believe I'll ever really feel that way again.

Thoughts?

[Changed4safety]

There's a quote out there, something about "nothing is sadder than a failed romantic," though I'm sure I've gotten it wrong.

A couple nights ago I watched "Somewhere in Time" with some folks from a local Meetup.  It was actually very depressing--not just the ending, but the whole idea.  I realized that I had had that kind of love with my ex-BPD--that perfect, forever, meant to be with a soulmate--and that it doesn't exist.  I felt like the whole thing was just a lie, and the best I could ever really hope for was a "teammate" who had my back, someone who cared for me and me for him, sexual but more friendly than anything else.  And I felt just sickened at this.

I read a profile on a dating website with someone who said he wanted a great love, that sort of love where "it HURTS when you are apart," he had had this when he was too young to appreciate it and knows it's "real" and it's out there.

I immediately quit reading the profile.  That was a huge  to me and I wondered... . should it be?  Should I be leery of anyone who thinks that "true love" can happen? 

I'm talking to a couple of people online, getting out and making friends through Meetup.  I'm interested in dating, and part of me DOES want to find someone, and part of me is terrified of it. 

I guess this is  !

I want to feel those wonderful falling-in-love endorphins but I think I'll clamp down too hard when I start to feel them because I am terrified of getting into another situation like the one with my ex.  And at the same time, I don't believe I'll ever really feel that way again.

Thoughts?

[Leaf]

Hi Changed4safety, I would consider that a red flag as well. Why go looking for something that hurts? But I know what you mean.

I've never had this kind of romantic love, but I've always been looking for it, subconsciously anyway. I broke up with my BPD/NPDbf six months ago (he's still trying to get me back although he has no lack of women) and since then I read a lot and I worked on the trauma bonding and the original trauma / core wound / FOO stuff. Now I'm not very much interested in finding a man anymore and I sort of lost my libido. And I recognize this:

the best I could ever really hope for was a "teammate" who had my back, someone who cared for me and me for him, sexual but more friendly than anything else.  And I felt just sickened at this.

I have been wondering why I should want a new boyfriend in the future except for sex because I can take care of myself very well. I really don't know.

My ex never idealized me (he did idealize me to other people I later found out) and in the three years we were together he never once told me he loved me (except to get me back after I had broken up with him). We never had a honeymoon period but I somehow always expected that was something that would happen in the future.

Now I know that I was holding on to this feeling of promise (holding on so tight that I put up with things I never should have put up with), because I was trying to correct some childhood stuff. I want someone to love me who isn't capable of loving. What I wanted is my ex to love me for me, but he only loved what I could do for him. Doing things, being good at things, is what I did as a girl hoping that would bring me love. Didn't work then, doesn't work now. Because of my childhood, I think love is lack of love, love and hurt are intertwined for me. Love is some kind of holy grail, something you look for and keep looking for. So when someone is capable of loving and really loves me, it isn't love in my book.

What I hope is that I'm in some kind of temporary limbo. That by facing the FOO stuff I not only know but also FEEL that the love=pain concept isn't right. And that I still need to get my mind and my feelings around the love=love concept. I have taken an important step in that I'm not looking for anyone anymore to fill some childhood void in myself. But what the other person can be except for a "teammate", as you put it, I don't know yet. But I think (well, I hope) that is something I still have to discover, because I couldn't discover it before I had faced the core trauma. So I guess I'm hoping there is a third option besides agony&ecstasy and boring teammate. Or maybe I just won't find teammates boring anymore.  

[talithacumi]

"I realized that I had had that kind of love with my ex-BPD--that perfect, forever, meant to be with a soulmate--and that it doesn't exist."

Do you mean that you believe you did have that kind of love with your ex-BPD and that, because you're not with him anymore, that kind of love doesn't exist/doesn't seem like a possibility for you anymore ... . or that you believed you had that kind of love with your ex-BPD and now realize it was just a lie/something he made you feel you had that never really existed ... . or that you were wrong to have believed you had that kind of love with your ex-BPD because that kind of love itself doesn't actually exist at all?

I am concerned that you might be feeling like that truly/madly/deeply/intensely incredible thing you had with him was the perfect love you'd always dreamed of having - or closer to feeling like what you believed/felt/thought that perfect love could/would/should feel like than anything else you've ever experienced - and that, since things between the two of you didn't work out the way they should have if it was the perfect love you believed/felt/thought it was, that that kind of love must not actually exist and/or work the way you've always been told/expected it to work.

That all there really is - the best you can ever rationally hope for - based on the gutwrenching experience you've just been through - is the sad/pathetic little teammate/friend with benefits scenario you described in your post.

I sincerely hope this is not the case.

In my own experience - and based on everything I've read here and elsewhere on the subject - all a pwBPD does/has the ability/is compelled by the nature of their disorder to do is pretend to be the kind of person whoever they're with needs/wants them to be in order to get the notice, interest, acceptance, admiration, respect, trust, concern, understanding, sympathy, comfort, validation, empathy, support, and love it takes to, if not relieve, then at least distract them as much and for as long as humanly possible from the constant pain, anxiety, stress, and fear they feel about being rejected/abandoned for who/what they actually are.

It would be adding insult to injury if you somehow came away from having been subjected to this kind of romantic fraud - however compulsively/unconsciously/unintentionally - believing it was, or even came close to being the real deal in any sort of truly meaningful way - and/or - that the real deal is just a bunch of flowery/idealistic bs we tell ourselves to make the pathetically mundane reality of interpersonal human relationships a little less mechanical, tawdry, and mundane.

The flowery/idealistic bs here is the fantasy you had/have about who your ex was, and what they perceived/believed/felt/thought about pretty much everything including, most significantly, you and the relationship/life you shared.

Wow. Do I sound strident or what? That usually means that I probably need to be telling this to myself as I, too, have trouble accepting that what I had with my ex wasn't what I so fervently believed, felt, thought it was for so long. There was/is so much of who/what I am invested in that having been true - so much to lose by even considering that it wasn't - that I seem to look for any hoop to jump through/any alternative but that even after all this time.

Sigh.

I will leave what I've written, as written, tone and all, as advice to myself - and hope you will forgive me for being so presumptiously finger-waggy, here's what you should do, blahblahblah, fixy, rescuey, narcissistic, not empathetic, not listening, not validating, not the kind of person I really can/actually want to be.

That said ... .

It sounds like you find it really depressing, frightening, and not liking or wanting to think about love this way at all, changed4safety. After everything you've been through, it's no wonder you have those thoughts. Given the depth of your capacity to feel and be moved by love, it's no wonder you find such thoughts so depressing, frightening, and abhorrent. Trust that you are having these thoughts for a reason - even if they're just some kneejerk/involuntary/reactionary attempt to keep you from getting anymore hurt than you already are. That you are probably having them because you need some time/distance to sit quietly with, comfort, take care of, and heal your heart. That you will. That you will regain your strength and, with it, both the certainty that the real deal is out there already being experienced by a whole lot of people every day and the courage to once more look for/allow yourself to try to experience it for yourself.

[doubleAries]

"The Love of My Life" was a certified NPD. That should tell me something. And it DOES.

It has taken me way too many years to grasp the difference between intensity and intimacy. The difference between trust/comfort and swirling endorphins. The difference between sharing my life and wallowing in my fantasy. The difference between my feelings and my belief that someone else "caused" those feelings (and the ensuing outrage when they "take away" those feelings).

But the biggest part being the difference between intensity and intimacy. Believing intensity to be "true love", and being addicted to it, yearning, pining, fretting for it. Calling it "romantic". Becoming willing to overlook red flags galore to get that fix.

I don't watch TV or movies hardly ever. Mostly because of the "standard" pushed in these movies that we are supposed to aspire to--codependent, boundary-less, addictive crap. Butt kicking heroes who fall in love while killing people, and "romantic comedies" where people hate each other and then fall in love--the "lesson" being that we shouldn't trust our intuition, that hate IS love, that if we just overlook the sadist part of the S & M game of "love", everything will be perfect for ever and ever. "Romantic comedies" remind me of romance novels--same formula. You hate this guy, but as soon as he comes right up to the line of rape, then he becomes intensely attractive. He's a jerk, but if he shoves you against the wall and rips your bodice off, then you can't help yourself--the "passion" is on. It's GROTESQUE.

There are lots of good articles about intensity vs. intimacy--just google that phrase.

While I still have a LONG way to go, I find I am finally leaning towards my 'romantic' goal being comprised of these things--feeling safe, valued, and trusted/trusting. Those are valuable things that don't necessarily cause butterflies in the stomach.

[Changed4safety]

So many thoughtful, well-worded replies, thank you!  You have given me a great deal to think about.  About to plunge into my workday but I will post later. 

[MaybeSo]

Should I be leery of anyone who thinks that "true love" can happen

?  


There's a difference between "true love" and addicted, immature, sick, or toxic love.

and the best I could ever really hope for was a "teammate" who had my back, someone who cared for me and me for him, sexual but more friendly than anything else.  And I felt just sickened at this.

If you change a few words in this sentence and you are describing what most people traditionally would consider an intimate, satisfying, and healthy relationship. What about this sickens you?

Mostly because of the "standard" pushed in these movies that we are supposed to aspire to--codependent, boundary-less, addictive crap. Butt kicking heroes who fall in love while killing people, and "romantic comedies" where people hate each other and then fall in love--the "lesson" being that we shouldn't trust our intuition, that hate IS love, that if we just overlook the sadist part of the S & M game of "love", everything will be perfect for ever and ever. "Romantic comedies" remind me of romance novels--same formula. You hate this guy, but as soon as he comes right up to the line of rape, then he becomes intensely attractive. He's a jerk, but if he shoves you against the wall and rips your bodice off, then you can't help yourself--the "passion" is on. It's GROTESQUE.

I concur.  Our current culture has wandered WAY off the reservation into some very sick territory in terms of what we consider romantic, sexy, or real... . our entertainment these days is pretty frightening.   If you are taking your cues about relationships from the mainstream media or mainstream entertainment,  you are in for a very rough ride and will likely never feel satisfied cause you will always be chasing that 'high' and always involved in drama-trauma.  :)rama is drama, it's not sustainable, and it's not love. It's just drama.

I read a profile on a dating website with someone who said he wanted a great love, that sort of love where "it HURTS when you are apart,"

Part of the hurt and angst he is talking about is akin to a two year old having an attachment protest because mommy left to go to the store.  That is what dependency issues are about... . it's all romantic and sexy... . until it's NOT.  Having emotional dependency issues from childhood isn't sexy... . somehow all this immaturity and angst and childish longing has been marketed as  sexy in our culture, cause staying a kid is sexy in our culture... . if people understood most of this has to do with lack of developmental maturity  and attachment issues... . they would feel embarrassed.  But this gets sold as sexy in our culture so we eat it up.

You know what's really sexy? Being a grown up!

 

[goldylamont]

just wanted to say that i've really enjoyed reading each of your posts coming from a woman's perspective.

as far as finding a "teammate"... . well this does sound like settling for someone who is amicable... . and boring.   so, no, i 100% disagree with this. if you think about it this is just what a pwBPD or NPD would *want* you to think, right? that *they* hold some kind of special romantic powers (because they lie all the time)?

i read something somewhere recently about b/NPD disorders and it said basically "these people aren't complex, they are *not* special, they are dime a dozen PDs and most of them act alike. they're just mentally ill, nothing special about that". this wasn't a quote at all just what i took from the article--it really gave me a new perspective and perhaps this could help you too? your ex ain't nothing special  he (or she) is simply crazy    and we didn't understand this fully at the time.

i think if you start to like someone and are getting to know them better (first start dating or meeting each other). i think it's good to do a couple things--one, do things that you yourself like that you find sexy and exciting, and share this with them. give them the pleasure of being excited and turned on (not just sexually) by you by the energy you bring. and two, expect them to do the same for you--and don't expect them to read your mind (guys are really bad at this :-), sometimes you may have to give supportive but direct suggestions and see if the guy is worthy and complies. i think you can start a healthy precedence of doing little things to make a r/s playful--try doing things you enjoy that you think he will love, then *expect* him to do the same for you; and communicate directly what you expect and smile and enjoy when he complies.

i don't think you have to settle for boring 

[doubleAries]

The problem with "boring" (or "settling for boring" is why does it seem boring? Because of the lack of drama? The drama is what makes it not boring--it's what makes it traumatic and painful! We can't tolerate "boring", but we also can't tolerate the trauma and pain of DRAMA. Kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place, eh?

[Grey Kitty]

I've seen people fall in love after having pretty much given up on relationships... . and then spend the time to care for and love themselves, and work through what they needed to work through as individuals.

That looks a lot more like true love than the "Hollywood version" / "BPD Version" of love!