Idealization was so powerful

[Ahhhh431]

I'm realizing that my ex made me feel extremely valuable, anytime I was down it was as if she had the exact words to being me back up. Just having her around made me feel amazing. When we were around each other it was as if she was so in love with me, I couldn't imagine her ever leaving. I felt like she needed me in her life and she even told me "you have no idea how much I rely on you" she also told me she realized the only reason she stayed in the place she is now was because of me because her family lived in a different state. This made me feel so important, loved, and needed. She is 28, I am 22 and she always told me she looked up to me, my character, how I treated other people, how sweet I was to her. She basically lavished me with compliments... . I've never felt so intoxicated in my life than when I was with her. I believe the hardest part about letting go is fearing that I will never have that feeling again, that feeling of being loved and accepted as I was and that I was so important to someone. But how could I really be that important to her if she was constantly sabotaging our relationship?

If there wasn't drama from one of her friends saying we shouldn't be together or her mom (mostly because of our age they didn't even really know me as she did a great job of never telling them we hung our or being seen with me) she was telling me I should like someone else or she would be talking to another guy. It was like we had no consistency, I was either idealized or she would move on-- there wasn't just being stable.

Is this behavior common for BPD? Idk I'm just scared that ill never feel that way again. She left me and immediately started talking to a new guy. A mutual friend we have said she was infatuated with him. I just hate that I was the one always trying to invest in her life yet she threw me away. It's difficult to let go of someone you genuinely care about, if she is able to does that me she never cared about me?

[pari]

Ahhhh431: This is a very common BPD behavior. My ex made me feel like I am the most important person for him on the planet. He was so in love with almost everything about me.

We began arguing and recycling few months back. It went on until he told me that the is seeing someone else. But he would still like to be with me. (I don't get it).

During the recycle phase, he knew about his issues. Anger, fear loneliness, self image issues. Kept telling me that I should find a better man... . and stuff. I told him that I am not looking for anyone else. All I want is to make things work with him.

. It's difficult to let go of someone you genuinely care about, if she is able to does that me she never cared about me?

This is where I am stuck too. I think she did care for you because you fulfilled her Needs as clearmind says in another post.

[heartcoaster]

For what seemed like years, I was the King of her world.  Now I'm relegated to nothing more than a Joker.  I blame myself for not recognizing I was so high on the pedestal because it sure was painful falling all the way off it.  Looking back, the rapid attachment and desire to "check off" life goals like it was a shopping list was unhealthy.  You can't LIVE life when someone else is always trying to plan life for you.

[Ahhhh431]

Ahhhh431: This is a very common BPD behavior. My ex made me feel like I am the most important person for him on the planet. He was so in love with almost everything about me.

We began arguing and recycling few months back. It went on until he told me that the is seeing someone else. But he would still like to be with me. (I don't get it).

During the recycle phase, he knew about his issues. Anger, fear loneliness, self image issues. Kept telling me that I should find a better man... . and stuff. I told him that I am not looking for anyone else. All I want is to make things work with him.

. It's difficult to let go of someone you genuinely care about, if she is able to does that me she never cared about me?

This is where I am stuck too. I think she did care for you because you fulfilled her Needs as clearmind says in another post.

Why do they tell us we should find someone better? Like you, I didn't want someone else I just wanted her. It was like anytime her behavior was shown as unacceptable, instead of changing she just wanted me to find someone else... . But the thought of me with someone else made her jealous, yet she was pushing me to do that? Make no sense

[bpdspell]

The confusing feelings are a part of the doozy of learning about the BPD toxic dance.

Idealization is real in a sense that they connect with us on an intense and powerfully emotional level and it feels like a drug filling up our own voids, inner emptiness, and waking up our emotionally starved inner child. The bond for us is intense because they've somehow managed to fulfill a need or a void that we weren't even aware lived inside of us. Being with them is like having your very first taste of "unconditional love" which is the most powerful feeling in the world.

You mentioned your ex making you feel extremely valued and many of us on here can relate. Many of us grew up in homes where our needs weren't met by our primary caregivers and this leaves us vulnerable to seeking that love in romantic relationships. My BPDex woke up something in me that I thought was forever a dead child. The love bombing made me feel an inner aliveness that cannot even be put into words. Once you feel this feeling it's pretty hard to want to let go of it. Especially when you've been starved for "unconditional love" your entire life.

I was so "perfect" for my ex and this counter acted all of the negative criticism and feelings of worthlessness I received in my childhood. This is how we are swept off our feet and placed on a pedestal.  But in reality that pedestal cannot last because "all white" pedestal perfect love is a Disney based rescue fantasy. Healthy relationships are not about "rescuing" each other. Healthy relationships are based on the acceptance of flaws, warts, mutual respect, nurturing, validation, emotional maturity and the willingness to openly communicate so the relationship can grow and expand. A mentally ill person isn't capable of that in no way shape or form.

In reality we had voids before they came into the picture and they came with a personality disorder that is triggered by intimacy, vulnerability and feelings of engulfment. And it's the perfect storm for the toxic dance of BPD.

Spell

[Ahhhh431]

The confusing feelings are a part of the doozy of learning about the BPD toxic dance.

Idealization is real in a sense that they connect with us on an intense and powerfully emotional level and it feels like a drug filling up our own voids, inner emptiness, and waking up our emotionally starved inner child. The bond for us is intense because they've somehow managed to fulfill a need or a void that we weren't even aware lived inside of us. Being with them is like having your very first taste of "unconditional love" which is the most powerful feeling in the world.

You mentioned your ex making you feel extremely valued and many of us on here can relate. Many of us grew up in homes where our needs weren't met by our primary caregivers and this leaves us vulnerable to seeking that love in romantic relationships. My BPDex woke up something in me that I thought was forever a dead child. The love bombing made me feel an inner aliveness that cannot even be put into words. Once you feel this feeling it's pretty hard to want to let go of it. Especially when you've been starved for "unconditional love" your entire life.

I was so "perfect" for my ex and this counter acted all of the negative criticism and feelings of worthlessness I received in my childhood. This is how we are swept off our feet and placed on a pedestal.  But in reality that pedestal cannot last because "all white" pedestal perfect love is a Disney based rescue fantasy. Healthy relationships are not about "rescuing" each other. Healthy relationships are based on the acceptance of flaws, warts, mutual respect, nurturing, validation, emotional maturity and the willingness to openly communicate so the relationship can grow and expand. A mentally ill person isn't capable of that in no way shape or form.

In reality we had voids before they came into the picture and they came with a personality disorder that is triggered by intimacy, vulnerability and feelings of engulfment. And it's the perfect storm for the toxic dance of BPD.

Spell

Are there any articles I can read about the "Toxic dance" ? I haven't heard much about it, and I'd definitely like to know more.

My ex would always say she was feeling smothered, or manipulated/controlled -- especially when I asked her to do common relationship things like not flirt with someone in front of me when she knows they like her?

[Ahhhh431]

My ex also said she was afraid I would tell her what she should and shouldn't do and try to control her... . and that her twin sister would always try to control her... . and that she had experienced that in a relationship before.

I wasn't ever trying to control her but it seems like she would even perceive me trying to control her when I wasn't.

Is 'fear of engulfment' a fear of being controlled? Sorry I don't have a great understanding of it

[Clearmind]

Why do they tell us we should find someone better? Like you, I didn't want someone else I just wanted her. 

PwBPD spend a lifetime feeling misunderstood. I was also told to find someone better - BPD is not only an emotional disorder it's also steeped in shame - not your fault.

In reality we had voids before they came into the picture ... . And it's the perfect storm for the toxic dance of BPD.

You would be very correct spell. The dysfunction takes two. A Borderline brought there own issues into the relationship and us who were desperate to fill a void.

Not everyone attaches to a Borderline and not every Borderline attaches to just anyone. A healthier person would sense being idealized and run! Idealization is not perfect love - its need for us both.

We need to work on how we define love and how we define healthy.  

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

Which of these did you have with your ex? The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

Some of the characteristics of a healthy relationship are:

Respect - listening to one another, valuing each other's opinions, and listening in a non-judgmental manner. Respect also involves attempting to understand and affirm the other's emotions.

Trust and support - supporting each other's goals in life, and respecting each other's right to his/her own feelings, opinions, friends, activities and interest. It is valuing one's partner as an individual.

Honesty and accountability - communicating openly and truthfully, admitting mistakes or being wrong, acknowledging past use of violence, and accepting responsibility for one's self.

Shared responsibility - making family/relationship decisions together, mutually agreeing on a distribution of work which is fair to both partners. If parents, the couple shares parental responsibilities and acts as positive, non-violent role models for the children.

Economic partnership - in marriage or cohabitation, making financial decisions together, and making sure both partners benefit from financial arrangements.

Negotiation and fairness - being willing to compromise, accepting change, and seeking mutually satisfying solutions to conflict.

Non-threatening behavior - talking and acting in a way that promotes both partners' feelings of safety in the relationship. Both should feel comfortable and safe in expressing him/herself and in engaging in activities.

[papawapa]

We had precisely zero of the seven

[Clearmind]

We had precisely zero of the seven

And there you have it my friend... . next is to figure out why we thought this was perfect, "the one" and why we believe we will never "feel this intensity again".

Intensity is not love.

Intensity is not powerful - in the end it became debilitating - and here we find ourselves at bpdfamily asking "WHY"

[danley]

Respect - listening to one another, valuing each other's opinions, and listening in a non-judgmental manner. Respect also involves attempting to understand and affirm the other's emotions.

Trust and support - supporting each other's goals in life, and respecting each other's right to his/her own feelings, opinions, friends, activities and interest. It is valuing one's partner as an individual.

Honesty and accountability - communicating openly and truthfully, admitting mistakes or being wrong, acknowledging past use of violence, and accepting responsibility for one's self.

Shared responsibility - making family/relationship decisions together, mutually agreeing on a distribution of work which is fair to both partners. If parents, the couple shares parental responsibilities and acts as positive, non-violent role models for the children.

Economic partnership - in marriage or cohabitation, making financial decisions together, and making sure both partners benefit from financial arrangements.

Negotiation and fairness - being willing to compromise, accepting change, and seeking mutually satisfying solutions to conflict.

Non-threatening behavior - talking and acting in a way that promotes both partners' feelings of safety in the relationship. Both should feel comfortable and safe in expressing him/herself and in engaging in activities.

[/quote]
We had all except for the last two which got worse Once my exes life issues and stress seem to take over him. As it got worse and was never truly addressed but rather swept under the rug, the last two areas above went out the door. Towards the end it became a domino effect and all areas unraveled. I didn't feel safe Once he began to become paranoid about what other people thought of him. It seemed like it was constantly eating away at him. And honestly there was nothing I could do to remedy his fears completely. Any reassurance from me was just a band aid of sorts. People's fears and shame and guilt hinder them from living the lives they truly long for.

[PM720]

That "pedestal" feeling is truly something else.  It's as if you are the greatest thing in the world.  I remember how many times I was told how amazing and how "different" this was.  That her last bf was terrible and abusive and things were so different with me. That she had never felt this way before.  That the sex we had when we were together was the best and that being with me was the happiest feeling in her life.

Now we're divorced and I was "abusive" and the sex was terrible, and I was never this amazing guy.  It's a cycle plain and simple.  Now this new guy is the knight in shining armor.  He would never think of "hurting her" and she is so happy, so she tells me.

I wish I had found this site sooner because I would have realized how ridiculous it was.  I spent years trying to get back to the idolization phase.  Thinking that if I was just "better" that I would be the "amazing" guy again.

Looking back on it now there are so many signs that we ignored because I think we all wanted it to be true. Someone made the comment and said something like "they won't ever be truly happy."  I think that is spot on.  Someone is always the reason for their unhappiness.  The reason for their problems.  It is me right now, but eventually it will be this guy.  Then the next. 

Just know you are lucky to be out of this toxic relationship and the grass is greener.  There are times that I miss her and the good times, but I can tell you this, I haven't felt this free in a very long time.

[papawapa]

Whenever I would try to establish boundaries is when I would be accused of being controlling. Meanwhile she was the controlling one. Whenever she would get upset with me it was her car, her house, her money. I would try to leave and she would take my car keys. She always decided where we would live on her own without input from me. We had a joint account for years and when I decided to have my own to make sure we would at least have my half of the rent when it was do it was a battle.

[eniale]

Yes, many compliments in the beginning; in fact, the compliments continued right up to the end.  But shortly after we began to see each other, he would pick fights over really bizarre things.   Also remember 2 things early on that he said.  One was "I will not let you control me!"  The other was "I know you will leave me; I know you will leave me!"  When I later asked why he had said these things he said (a) he could not remember saying the first thing, and (b) said he did remember saying the second thing, but did not know why he had said it.  Strangely enough, at the time I felt he was telling me the truth.  Hard to figure now as I realize I will never fully understand his thought process.

[mitchell16]

Ahhhh431, I would get the exact same thing. If I asked her to do normal things that people do in relationships such as not flirt with men in my presence I was too controlling I wasnt letting her be her ( her words) But the flip side let me talk to a women, be friends with another women, be friends with a women on facebook and i was as low and low could get. I tried for over two years to make sense of it all, to improve things, I changed how I talked, walked, engaged in conversations and it was always something else the next time. if i asked her a questions I was interrogating her ( her words) so i would change how I asked a question then she would blow up again. and said it was how i looked at her, then it was my tone. So then it got to where I didnt speak about much at all, then it was I wasnt into her anymore becasue I didnt talk to her like I used to. Its enough to drive a person insane. She did the same thing with sex, if I wanted it all the time she would say that all I wanted her for was sex and if i slacked off I must not be in love with like I used to be. You cannot win or do the right thing, I found it impossible.

[Octoberfest]

Yes, many compliments in the beginning; in fact, the compliments continued right up to the end.  But shortly after we began to see each other, he would pick fights over really bizarre things.   Also remember 2 things early on that he said.  One was "I will not let you control me!"  The other was "I know you will leave me; I know you will leave me!"  When I later asked why he had said these things he said (a) he could not remember saying the first thing, and (b) said he did remember saying the second thing, but did not know why he had said it.  Strangely enough, at the time I felt he was telling me the truth.  Hard to figure now as I realize I will never fully understand his thought process.

It's funny... . I saw this in my BPDex as well.  It seemed as though situations would confront her that she was not able to confront in an adult way and rationally and she would revert to irrational, childlike responses by default.  Screaming "You never loved me" or "I knew you would hurt me" or going straight to lying.  She told me before in reference to how she found herself dating 2 guys at once that she just found herself in over her head at one point, too far into to to get out of.  Of course, in reality it is pretty cut and dry, it isn't hard to tell someone "no", but for a pwBPD who needs validation from others so badly, it is.

I actually got pretty good near the end at seeing the "switch" from "normal" and rational to defense, swing for the fences mode.  And it made me laugh, because whereas before I bought into it and let her get away with it, I now saw it for what it was and wasn't letting her off that easy.  Even that phrase, "letting her off that easy" is a bit of a misstatement because I don't think she was actually capable of being that INTENTIONALLY manipulative; it is just what she is programed to do.  When she gets caught flirting or cheating, 100% power is thrown into FIX THIS SITUATION, I CAN'T LET HIM LEAVE ME, and whatever other situation she has with the other guy fades to nothing until she is confronted by him, at which point it reverses.

Balance... . unattainable for pwBPD

[Ahhhh431]

My ex would alway say she just had a hard time saying "no". It seemed like it was just an excuse... . She said she went on a date with another guy when I was out of town because she felt sorry for him and didn't want to say no... . Then she denied her knowing it was a date and cried when I made her accountable... . Then she emailed her friend "I went on a date, it just wasn't right." So it was or it wasn't? It was whatever she wanted it to he to whoever she was talking to. Ridiculous.

My ex would also go mute when I confronted her on the phone. I would ask her a question about her behavior and there would be silence... . I would say "hello" and she would respond "hello" then I would ask the question again and silence... .

I would say hello and she would respond and then ask the question again only to find silence... .

This made me extremely angry... . Anytime I confronted her she made out arguments last hours in what could have been a 15 minute discussion... . Is this BPD behavior? Any explanation?

[Clearmind]

Firstly, Ahhhh its tempting to pick apart our ex's bit by bit and question every aspect - generally speaking this is to relinquish self blame.

If in fact our partners are Borderline we are expecting them to think like others do. Borderlines aim to please others as its self serving - so they themselves can relinquish shame. BPD is a shame based disorder.

If we continue to question their motives and compare to what we would do you will send yourself into a spiral.

I would say hello and she would respond and then ask the question again only to find silence... .

This made me extremely angry... . Anytime I confronted her she made out arguments last hours in what could have been a 15 minute discussion... . Is this BPD behavior? Any explanation?

This is probably about the time you may have needed to question whether this person is right for you - BPD or not!

We often don't realize we are being invalidating and yes circular arguments are common - however they only exist if we engage in it. It takes two. Is there a reason you continued to engage. I know why I did - I wanted to be right and wanted to make my ex out to be wrong. It was a battle and we were both vying for a position. Not healthy.

[scuba02]

These arguments for me were non stop at the end... . About everything from animal cruelty to why i was five minuets late after driving an hour to see her

One great example for me was the breast implant argument

Her: would you like me if i had them? i think i would look good with them... .

Me: you would look great with them!

Her: so you like fake boobs, i knew it, you don't like mine the way they are... .

Me: i love yours the way they are

Her: then why did you say you wanted me to get them?

Me: I said you would look good with them

Her: you want me to get them then... .

Me: I love yours the way they are but I would support you in your decision... . it would be for you

Her: But you have to have a preference... .

Me: i love you the way you are

Her: I would never get them... . I think they're disgusting

And this is the condensed version! My arguments were not ALWAYS about winning or right and wrong... . I engaged because couples are supposed to talk and share... . I always tried to support her... . for her it seemed to be about winning or losing at all times

The conversation about church and state could be a forum of its own ... . sometimes I think back and laugh!

[papawapa]

 

Thanks for sharing that scuba!

Totally brings back memories of the crazy way their minds work.

It especially reminds me of all the times I would get asked "how does this look" wen she would put on an outfit. Which would inevitably end with her proclaiming "you are saying I am fat." despite the fact that the word fat would never escape my lips.

[Ahhhh431]

I told my ex she was being selfish once and she said "I can't believe you just told me I'm the most selfish person you've ever met" I literally just said "your being selfish right now because you wont compromise at all" and then of course i was manipulating too

[heartcoaster]

I never knew falling from grace would hurt so much until I dusted myself off and saw just how high on that pedastal I was.  I was the greatest thing in the world and then tossed aside like last week's newspaper.  Strangely, though, I now see so many of the  that I'm fairly confident when I'd be entering into another situation like this.  If someone starts thinking I hung the moon after a few dates, I may want to blast off to another solar system.

[charred]

I never knew falling from grace would hurt so much until I dusted myself off and saw just how high on that pedastal I was.  I was the greatest thing in the world and then tossed aside like last week's newspaper.  Strangely, though, I now see so many of the   that I'm fairly confident when I'd be entering into another situation like this.  If someone starts thinking I hung the moon after a few dates, I may want to blast off to another solar system.

It can change you. I started a new project for work... . out of town with a good looking project manager... . whom I felt electricity from. Instead of jumping for it... . I exercised caution... . and listened and looked for   . Boy did I find them. She was "going to get a divorce"... . she told a number of inappropriate at work stories, then she had to leave early 3 times a week and one of the gals that knew her told me it was for her therapy sessions. The craziness grew day by day, now I am working to make sure I bore her and kill anything she starts up... . just getting the job done.

Found out she has had a number of divorces (on marriage 3 I believe)... . thinks she is a great project manager... . everyone that works with her wants to throw her under the bus, and can't believe she is still employed.

She seems miffed by me... . but I am happy each day when I leave, knowing I didn't start dating the sequel to my BPD nightmare. I don't know that she is BPD... . but some cluster B disorder... . no question.

I noticed she asks questions for reactions... . but doesn't want the answer, doesn't want understanding of anything. Could see it... . asked how a certain technical problem was going and then... . swear to god, she subtly put both her hands over her ears and pulled away and exited.

So much weirdness... . how do they do it.