thinking of hiring a PI

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Has anyone used a PI to follow their ex to potentially help with custody case?

I am thinking of hiring a PI for several days to follow and get an idea of what ex is doing.  ie, he claims to have a part-time job, but how much "work" does it seem like he does? 

Does he go to bars?  to the liquor store?  Does he drink and drive? 

Specifically, I am considering Labor Day weekend and maybe the day before and after or so.  I have the kids that weekend.  My hope would be to catch him drinking and driving and arrested for such.  I was told that PIs can do this and then can testify in court about it for you. 

I know it's an expensive gamble, and maybe he's being careful, but I think it is worth it, given how huge it could be in our custody case.

Here is the main snafu.  Some of you may remember, ex used to work as a PI in some capacity.  He knows some of them locally.  I don't want to accidentally tip someone off that could tip him off that this is happening.   Should I go to an agency further away?  Any suggestions?  I know that they probably technically have to follow privacy laws, but I don't trust people.

Please let me know your thoughts on this, asap.

Just as a general update otherwise, custody evaluations are underway.  I had to pay the upfront cost, and so far I've only met the evaluator one time.  I did get a positive vibe from her that day, though. 

D3 needs as much time with me as possible for her to develop as normally as possible, because she won't have the stability she needs, otherwise.  I really need legal custody or something close to it.  She needs as little overnights with him as possible, as well.  He doesn't have patience and he is an alcoholic.  Both he and she would do best with visits that are a few hours long at a time.  Not saying that she could never spend the night, but just in general.  He is one mean dude.

I am getting as many people to write letters of support for me as possible. 

I am making copies of my documentation to provide to the evaluator.

I am constantly praying.

Ex has been obstructing me from communicating with D3 when he has her, now more and more.  He has stopped calling to speak with her when I have her,  and I imagine he will say something like "I'm  not bothering you when you have her, so do me the same favor."  Again, he is missing the point, that it is about HER and NOT him.  She hasn't wanted to talk to him when he calls or to go to her house, and of course he is hurt by that, so is trying to hurt me back.  I am going to see how many times he lets me talk to her from now through Sun, and then think about talking to the attorney about filing for contempt. 

oh, and he has recently asked me by email to send him a copy of her health insurance card, her social security card, info about who her new PCP is, and any future dr. appts. that I have scheduled for her.  Interim order says we have joint legal custody.  I guess I can give him a copy of the health insurance card, sure.  SS card?  He took an old tax return of ours, so I know he has her number.  I know he will think that he should get to claim her on taxes every other year, but she is MY dependent, especially since he is only living off of money given to him by me in the divorce settlement.  Something else that needs to be specifically spelled out in our final custody order.  He has always tried to play the "I was the primary caregiver" card, but really never was.  I don't know if he just wants to know, so he can sound like he is in the know, or what he has planned.  She only has a vision check scheduled late in Oct. at this point.  Do I need to tell him? 

Please let me know your thoughts on the PI, filing for contempt, and also on ex's most recent requests in the last paragraph above.

Thank you!

[nowheretogo]

Has anyone used a PI to follow their ex to potentially help with custody case?

I am thinking of hiring a PI for several days to follow and get an idea of what ex is doing.  ie, he claims to have a part-time job, but how much "work" does it seem like he does? 

Does he go to bars?  to the liquor store?  Does he drink and drive? 

Specifically, I am considering Labor Day weekend and maybe the day before and after or so.  I have the kids that weekend.  My hope would be to catch him drinking and driving and arrested for such.  I was told that PIs can do this and then can testify in court about it for you. 

I know it's an expensive gamble, and maybe he's being careful, but I think it is worth it, given how huge it could be in our custody case.

Here is the main snafu.  Some of you may remember, ex used to work as a PI in some capacity.  He knows some of them locally.  I don't want to accidentally tip someone off that could tip him off that this is happening.   Should I go to an agency further away?  Any suggestions?  I know that they probably technically have to follow privacy laws, but I don't trust people.

Please let me know your thoughts on this, asap.

Just as a general update otherwise, custody evaluations are underway.  I had to pay the upfront cost, and so far I've only met the evaluator one time.  I did get a positive vibe from her that day, though. 

D3 needs as much time with me as possible for her to develop as normally as possible, because she won't have the stability she needs, otherwise.  I really need legal custody or something close to it.  She needs as little overnights with him as possible, as well.  He doesn't have patience and he is an alcoholic.  Both he and she would do best with visits that are a few hours long at a time.  Not saying that she could never spend the night, but just in general.  He is one mean dude.

I am getting as many people to write letters of support for me as possible. 

I am making copies of my documentation to provide to the evaluator.

I am constantly praying.

Ex has been obstructing me from communicating with D3 when he has her, now more and more.  He has stopped calling to speak with her when I have her,  and I imagine he will say something like "I'm  not bothering you when you have her, so do me the same favor."  Again, he is missing the point, that it is about HER and NOT him.  She hasn't wanted to talk to him when he calls or to go to her house, and of course he is hurt by that, so is trying to hurt me back.  I am going to see how many times he lets me talk to her from now through Sun, and then think about talking to the attorney about filing for contempt. 

oh, and he has recently asked me by email to send him a copy of her health insurance card, her social security card, info about who her new PCP is, and any future dr. appts. that I have scheduled for her.  Interim order says we have joint legal custody.  I guess I can give him a copy of the health insurance card, sure.  SS card?  He took an old tax return of ours, so I know he has her number.  I know he will think that he should get to claim her on taxes every other year, but she is MY dependent, especially since he is only living off of money given to him by me in the divorce settlement.  Something else that needs to be specifically spelled out in our final custody order.  He has always tried to play the "I was the primary caregiver" card, but really never was.  I don't know if he just wants to know, so he can sound like he is in the know, or what he has planned.  She only has a vision check scheduled late in Oct. at this point.  Do I need to tell him? 

Please let me know your thoughts on the PI, filing for contempt, and also on ex's most recent requests in the last paragraph above.

Thank you!

[catnap]

In my son's case we used a PI.  Since your ex was involved with law enforcement for a number of years, I would start with agencies outside of your local area. Your attorney may be able to recommend a firm they have worked with before.

My hope would be to catch him drinking and driving and arrested for such.  I was told that PIs can do this and then can testify in court about it for you.

This is what we were advised by our PI:

They can testify that the person was in a bar consumed X number of drinks and then drove off and in their opinion was too intoxicated to drive.

They would also call and report it in hopes that a local patrol would pull them over. 

Some info they will want if you hire them: 

Make, model, color and license plates of the vehicles he drives.

Address of where he lives, and who lives with him (important because this person is around your D3 also)

DOB, SSN, photo, etc. 

I would ask what depth of background check they can do.  This especially important that they know of his sketchy exit from his last law enforcement job and his fear of being "checked out" for a PI license.  This might give them some indication as to where to really dig for info.  Give them the information about prior arrests, police reports, etc. so you do not pay for information you have already gathered.

I am thinking of hiring a PI for several days to follow and get an idea of what ex is doing.  ie, he claims to have a part-time job, but how much "work" does it seem like he does?

Does he go to bars?  to the liquor store?  Does he drink and drive?

A good start.  This will give them information to work with.  The big question is what does he do when he has D3.  Do people come over carrying 6-packs or liquor store bags?  Does he leave D3 with son and go out alone for hours, etc. 

[livednlearned]

oh, and he has recently asked me by email to send him a copy of her health insurance card, her social security card, info about who her new PCP is, and any future dr. appts. that I have scheduled for her.  Interim order says we have joint legal custody.  I guess I can give him a copy of the health insurance card, sure.  SS card?  He took an old tax return of ours, so I know he has her number.  I know he will think that he should get to claim her on taxes every other year, but she is MY dependent, especially since he is only living off of money given to him by me in the divorce settlement.  Something else that needs to be specifically spelled out in our final custody order.  He has always tried to play the "I was the primary caregiver" card, but really never was.  I don't know if he just wants to know, so he can sound like he is in the know, or what he has planned.  She only has a vision check scheduled late in Oct. at this point.  :)o I need to tell him?  

Giving him a copy of her health insurance card is probably ok (it helps D3) -- but he can figure out what to do about her SS card. He's still treating you like his wife, wanting you to do things he can do perfectly well on his own. Since you have joint legal, you might as well tell him where her PCP is, and when her appts are. Yes, he wants to sound like he's in the know. My ex requested the last 12 years of S12's medical records (paid $50 for it), and then tried to show how well he knew S12's health history during our trial. He even asked me if I knew S12's blood type.

You can let this play out two ways. One is to file motions for contempt and start having his difficulties stack up in court. (Keep in mind he can do the same, by filing bogus motions.) The other is to wait for the big stuff to start registering -- and it will. Big stuff = drinking while taking care of D3 or doing something that directly endangers D3.

[nowheretogo]

Thanks lnl and catnap.

catnap, are you advising to maybe hold off on filing for contempt?  He did let me talk to her tonight.  Since May 18th (around date or interim order going into effect), he has kept me from talking to her about 10 times.  If I did do this, do you think I need to have copies of phone records as proof, or can I just bring my documentation and my phone?  I see what you're saying about him filing crap, too, although he never seems to want to spend money.

I am sending him the health insurance card in the mail.  I sent him a separate email telling him the name of her new PCP, her next appt. date, and her ss #.  I am not sending a copy of the card.  If he really needs one, he can probably order one.  No one ever asks you to produce the card, except if we take her for a passport, in which case I will bring it along.  I don't trust him and could see him possibly selling it to people for future illegal activity or something awful.  May be just paranoia, but I'm not doing it.

As for PI, yes, I'm going to look away from local, so as to not risk any kind of leak back to him (I hope).  It will probably cost me more, but oh well.  I will probably request for one weekend when he has her and one when he doesn't.  I am thinking labor day because it's a holiday weekend... . maybe more likely to be out?  I think if found drinking and driving, even without D3, it is important, because what's to say he wouldn't?  Don't you think?

I just finished photo copying a bunch of my documentation for the custody evaluator, and still have a ton left to do. 

Please keep in touch 

[livednlearned]

I think if you have the money to file a motion for contempt, do it. What I noticed in my case is that once you start using the law to do stuff, it sort of sets traps for your ex. It corners him, very slowly. It might take a while for those motions for contempt to add up, to help you get what you want, but eventually you'll get there. And there's a really, really good chance your ex is not going to do the work it takes to be proactive, or even defend himself well.

It's hard being a single parent and working full-time, and being worried about your kids, plus trying to understand all this legal stuff. So don't feel bad if you don't know what your strategy is just yet. Mine started to become clear after a year or so. My L did some smart things in the beginning, but to be honest, in the first year especially, I had a hard time tracking exactly what was going on and understanding what the implications were.

I do think it's a matter of time before your ex drinks while D3 is in his care. Does it say anything in your order that your ex cannot drink while D3 is with him?

[catnap]

I can only relate to our experience and a lot of what we did was based on how the Judges in our area viewed things.  The attorney we used was fairly well tuned in to what worked and didn't work with our family courts.  So it was important that the attorney, PI and you meet to discuss things before spending the money on surveillance.  While our PI was great, I think it would have been more cost effective to have had a meeting in the very beginning vs half-way through the process. 

Same thing with the contempt, ask your attorney.  It might be very important to show that during the CE portion of the custody process he was withholding communication.  Were you calling and him refusing to let you talk to her? 

[nowheretogo]

He always drank, and  I know he as never stopped.  He will only tell the evaluator that he either cut way back or quit, I'm sure.  The interim order states that we are not to drink "to the point of intoxication" which he always claimed and believed he never did anyway.

I will have to ask L about the PI thing and about what he thinks about filing for contempt.  Maybe you're right, lnl, do it if you can, because otherwise he is just like a little kid, seeing how much he can get away with.

Yes, I call to speak with her every day when she is away.  He pulled the "she was asleep" thing a few times early on, so I started making sure to call earlier in the evening.  I'm sure he's got excuses for every time, but that's bs.  I haven't done it to him, except one time we literally were asleep and I didn't realize he had called until the morning.  I have even chased her around the house with the phone with her yelling, "NO, I don't want it!" in order to return his phone call. 

[momtara]

I'd get one further away, yes.  It sounds like a good plan if you can afford it, particularly on a holiday weekend when he may drink.  I don't know if in your state it will make a difference.  Some people seem to have hubbies with DWI's and they still get custody.

My ex pulled the same with me this week in asking for all sorts of info.  Technically we're supposed to provide important info, within reason.  I would imagine you have to give him the SS number.  Of course, you're right, he may have it somewhere and is just being lazy or harassing you.

[livednlearned]

I can only relate to our experience and a lot of what we did was based on how the Judges in our area viewed things.  The attorney we used was fairly well tuned in to what worked and didn't work with our family courts.  So it was important that the attorney, PI and you meet to discuss things before spending the money on surveillance.   

Same thing with the contempt, ask your attorney.  It might be very important to show that during the CE portion of the custody process he was withholding communication. 

If I had to pick one piece of advice, the most important piece, it's this -- exactly what catnap says. What is your judge like and how does he or she tend to rule? Because there's the law, and then there's your judge. Pay really close attention to what your L says about the judge because that will help you map out your strategy. I don't think it hurts to file motions for contempt because that's what they're for. But getting sole legal custody, or reducing time D3 spends with your ex will take a while. It took me 2.5 years. It's not uncommon for others here to take longer. And a big part of why it might take longer for some than others is the judge. Your L should have a good perspective on this.

Also, keep in mind that your ex is probably going to figure out that he can file motions for contempt too, although let's hope he doesn't want to spend the money.

One thing you could ask your attorney, "Should I file motions for contempt of everything he does not comply with?" Or ask if you should instead focus on the PI and unearthing what your ex is doing while D3 is in his care. Or both... .

[catnap]

  nowheretogo, just checking in to see how things are going for you.