I don't understand the sex life talk

[Scout99]

At least for me, I think the psychological/emotional connection kept me hooked longer than the sexual connection did... .  I saw through her "act" when it came to sex. The verbal stuff & the physical stuff seemed... . fake... .  There was no *true* intimacy or love. I found it lacking in that sense. <cut>  I'd imagine it was much more closer to having sex with a paid prostitute... . Hey, you're not alone, as I've heard the opposite here... that the sex was amazing/incredible/etc.

hmm, i'm beginning to wonder how much "BPD" my xBPDgf was... .  or maybe she was just an unusual manifestation of BPD b/c well, ok for me i can't have great sex without there being a great emotional intimacy.  so when i say the sex with her was the best, it's only b/c the emotional intimacy allowed it to be.  it was actually much more about the intimacy than the sex.

it was very slow and tender (when appropriate) ~ wild and intense (when appropriate).  it's like the "appropriateness" had never been more spot on with anyone else b4, if that makes sense.  she looked me in the eyes. extensively.  she was (or at seemed like) she was more "present" more 'with me" than i'd ever experienced with anyone else.

that's why i am often so torn about having ended it.  i am not always 100% sure that i made the right choice.  as some others have expressed here, there is a real nagging thought that i might have ended it with the truest love of my life.

it's also very very sad and humiliating for me to think that what I experienced as the most genuine and authentic romantic connection of my entire life was in actuality the most fake and unreal of them all.  that is a mind blower!

icu2

I think your experience is similar to many others regarding this, and for many pw BPD the only time they can handle real intimacy is in a sexual situation. And for them handling intimacy in any other situation is instead way more difficult... .

However there are many individual differences, depending on as discussed now here level of comorbidity with other disorders such as narcissism on one hand or coping strategies on the other as well as individual relationships to sexuality as a whole... .

In my personal experience first with a guy w NPD and then with a guy with BPD, the differences between them was huge!

My NPD bf was very sexually intense but not in an intimate way, except for the beginning of the relationship while he was still sort of "hunting" for me... .  And then was very attentive to what he thought or picked up on I seemed to like... . (mirroring). But once our relationship was established things changed.

Then it became not bad, but then again not particularly intimate and it was pretty much all about him, his performance, (get me what I need as fast as possible), and then his satisfaction... . And sometimes even somewhat mechanical in a way that differs from how shall I put it... . bored sex that can occur when a relationship is tired or stuck in a rut... .

He also used it more towards the end to blow off steam... . when suppressing aggression... .

My BPD guy was quite the opposite! He was very intense sexually and the intimacy level was very high! A lot of eye contact and experimental and also very attentive to me and what I liked... .

To him sex was however very exhausting emotionally, and he often experienced headaches and lack of sleep in connection with sex... . He sort of gave everything he got into that... . But it also drained him emotionally so when dysregulating he often withheld sex as a means to contain his feelings and to prevent getting too intimate... . Since intimacy triggers so badly his fear of abandonment... .

He could literarily give me mind blowing wonderful sex, and right after begin to fret I would one day leave him... .  

Confusing to say the least... . And me assuring him of the contrary helped nada... .

They represent just two people, but at the same time they were extreme opposites of one another... . So the variety is extensive... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Lao Tzu]

Dear icu2,

    You really hit the nail on the head, IMHO.  Many people here feel the sex was the greatest ever, but for me (and this will sound so ridiculous that I hesitate to type it) it was not physically different but emotionally transcendental, if you will.  I often thought that I had only one 'mystic' experience in my life and that was with her, sexually.  It was, for me, the emotional bond that was so crazily elevated beyond the normal plane of my existence (hey, I said it sounded ridiculous).

    And yes, that is why it hurts so badly that they, who we feel so strongly (and incorrrectly) had exactly the same feelings for us that we had for them, could just drop that like an empty beer can.  Even worse is the notion that this mad depth of emotion is 'true love', i.e. other r/s are chopped liver.  We won't find this in a normal r/s because a normal person doesn't mirror us like the pwBPD does.  My personal opinion is that what we feel for the pwBPD is love for the image they mirror -- ourselves, and we confuse that image with the mirror projecting it.  The love we feel so intensely is really just narcissism on our part, just as Narcissus himself actually fell in love with his image to the detriment of his life. I know that's hard to accept, but I think it may be true for many, if not all of us.  The funny thing is that once you accept this, the pwBPD just really seems to have little power anymore.  You explode the false concept of love for her and understand that you actually tapped in to the mother lode of power that actually created your personality.  I've discussed this elsewhere here and I know almost everyone feels (as I did until a short time ago) that they truly and completely loved the pwBPD, so this must be incorrect for them. If you can get over this barrier, though, you will find that the pwBPD becomes completely irrelevant very quickly.  Just sayin'... .

LT

[ucmeicu2]

for me (and this will sound so ridiculous that I hesitate to type it) it was not physically different but emotionally transcendental, if you will.  I often thought that I had only one 'mystic' experience in my life and that was with her, sexually.  It was, for me, the emotional bond that was so crazily elevated beyond the normal plane of my existence (hey, I said it sounded ridiculous).

well lao tzu i am so glad that you did type it!  doesn't sound ridiculous to me at all.  in fact, it sounds exactly like me.  we often used the word 'transcendental' to describe our experience, as well as magical, mystical, connected, one, oneness, floating, joy, bliss, etc... .   it was emotionally orgasmic.

i still can't quite wrap my head around THAT translating to me being in love with myself b/c she was intensely mirroring me    but i am thinking about it.  thank you for your great explanation.

Even worse is the notion that this mad depth of emotion is 'true love', i.e. other r/s are chopped liver.  We won't find this in a normal r/s because a normal person doesn't mirror us like the pwBPD does.

it's kinda sick, kinda scary, like we have experienced something we were never meant to.  a pandora's box.  it blew a fuse in my mind.  will i ever be the same again?  can i?  should i?

icu2 

[nevaeh]

To a borderline, sex=control. I saw through it though. I'm the type of person that likes emotional connection. There were times when I'd feel so totally and utterly emotionally disconnected from him and he'd want sex. I just got the impression that he didn't really care what I had to say-that sex would solve everything in the relationship and that really angered me. I thought "No, you're not going to fob me off here" basically. I actually had arguments with my BPD ex over the sex issue. My gut instinct just told me that there was something very wrong with how he viewed sex, that it wasn't normal or at least what I would consider "normal".

When I say that they think sex=control, I mean that they use sex as a means of getting: validation, attention, easing their abandonment fears (don't leave me, I'll sleep with you if you stay with me), to feel loved (having someone touch them in an affectionate manner can be soothing for them), easing their mood (if they're in a bad mood, then sex will make them feel better), stop feeling empty (I'll feel whole if I have sex, I won't feel so alone in the world), stop you being mad with them (lets have makeup sex). I think that borderlines know there's something fundamentally wrong with them and that sex is the only hook they have... that if it wasn't for sex, no one would be interested in them!

Musicfan... . I seriously had to see if this had been my post!  This describes my sex life with my husband to a T.  Sex = control, no doubt in my mind.  H can be pissed at the world and 10 minutes later come to bed and initiate sex.  He blames the problems in our marriage (including his "anger issues" on the fact that I don't have frequent enough sex with him. 

We had a long "discussion" several weeks ago about how awful I was making his life by not having sex with him.  When I told him that it's hard for me to want to have sex with someone I am not emotionally attached to, he told me that I needed to separate the emotions from the sex and just have sex for the pure enjoyment of having sex for the sake of "saving" our marriage and making him a happier person.  When asked what he would do to aid in this "fixing" of our marriage, he responded that it was all up to me and he was not going to make any efforts whatsoever, because he has been trying so hard for the past 3 years but I haven't been perceptive to any of his efforts.  For the record, there have basically been no efforts, at least from my perspective.

H never touches me unless it is in a sexual, groping way.  We were on a long car trip over the weekend and he wanted to hold my hand, which would have been fine except that his version of holding my hand involves having his hand between my legs groping at my crotch (with our S8 and S12 in the backseat, no less).  Then he gets mad when I push him away, and acts like I am the one with the problem.  I have told him over, and over, and over, that I don't mind if he touches me but why does it ALWAYS have to be sexual?  He never hugs me, only comes up behind me and grabs my butt or breasts while I am in the middle of cooking supper or doing something  - I think he does it because my hands are busy and I'm defenseless.  I have asked him repeatedly not to do it but again, I'm the one with the problem.  H constantly makes sexually provocative jokes, turns every comment into something sexual, grabs me in sexual ways and randomly says things like "wanna be tied up" or "have you gone 'toy' shopping yet" or "are you wearing a thong"... . I have specifically asked him not to say these things to me but he continues.  When we were dating we would drive past an attractive woman and he would say "I bet she would look great sitting on my face".  Again, asked repeatedly for him to stop because it made me really angry and upset but he always said he was "just joking" and I just needed to lighten up.  Sex has always clearly been an issue with him and I am so past done with it.

The only time H ever tells me he loves me is after we have sex. Then he wants to cuddle and be all affectionate, which makes my skin crawl.  Over the weekend I gave in to sex both Saturday and Sunday night because I didn't want to deal with him having one of his "lack of sex" rages.  After Saturday night, I didn't expect him to want it on Sunday night as well, but he started making advances as soon as we went to bed.  I tried gently moving his hand from all of the sexual locations several times and he eventually said in a snotty way, "so do you just want to go to sleep or what?"  This is code for, if you don't want sex I am going to be really pissed off at you and keep you up all night talking about how much of a prude you are and how much of a disappointment you are as a wife.  So I gave in for the sake of avoiding that argument.

Afterwards, I cried silently as H tried to cuddle up with me and have his arms and legs draped all over me.  It makes me angry and sick to admit that this is happening in my own marriage.  Worse yet is that he is clueless as to how this has affected me over the past several years. He is incapable of understanding where I am coming from - I have tried explaining it to him but he is unwilling to get it.  I was molested when I was 6 and he insists that I am the way I am because of that.  I honestly don't believe that is the case.  Sure, maybe I am more likely to feel "abused" or used because of what happened to me as a child, but I don't feel as though that has had some horrible long-term impact on me, meaning I survived that and don't dwell on it every day.  What really makes me angry is that H probably thinks that our marriage has taken a turn for the BETTER because I gave him sex 3 out of the last 6 nights.  Ugh.

My biggest fear is that I will not ever be able to have a normal sexual relationship with another man.  H even told me as much... . that he "has concerns" that if we split that I will do the same thing to another man (deprive him of sex). 

The bottom line for me is that there is absolutely NOTHING to the emotional side of our relationship.  H is incapable of having a truly emotional tie to anyone.  He doesn't even know what to do to try and get that.  Because of that, our sex life is basically non-existent.  I have told him that our sexual needs are different and maybe it would be best if we split and found others who were more in line with our personal needs (which is when he told me I would ruin it for all future relationships as well). 

[rollercoaster24]

Hi again and very interesting post.

Hi to javamom

I am so sorry you are going through this with your husband, it really hurts, and invades all your personal boundaries when dealing with this in your partner. More so, when like you say, he takes no emotional responsibility for why you might have begun feeling estranged from him sexually, infact he takes no responsibility at all for anything by the sound of it.

I am guessing here that if you brought up the idea of therapy together and individually, he would scoff that off?

At any rate, you are right to feel the way you do about this, and don't let him coerce or manipulate you into feeling any different. It sounds like he doesn't have much respect for women at all the way he carries on sexually, especially in front of your children too. I am guessing, after experiencing sexual abuse, that this would be all the more confronting for you too. So sorry. Being sexually abused as a young child really sucks, and it messes around with your sexuality for ever. Not to mention, we end up attracting partners who sexually abuse us more!

I guess until we have dealt with the core issues it produced in us, that will be our path, I am hoping I can begin to really heal now, as I too was sexually abused by my best friends older brother at the age of 8. He had been psychologically/emotionally and sexually abusing me the whole time his younger sister and I were friends, and he got away with it too. Once that horrible day happened, (the final straw and the worst ever) there was a confrontation in my friends room, with her parents and brother. When it came out what he had done to me, he began raging, picked up a coffee table, and threw it at his (adopted) Mother's leg. She had bad varicose veins, and the table hitting her leg, must have ruptured one of them, so she was rushed off to hospital. The brother, (then 14 but very tall and strong) achieved what he set out to do, draw the focus away from what he had done, by creating an emergency. After that, I was not invited back to their house, and they moved away to the other side of town. I am guessing my friend was instructed to stay away from me then.

It was never resolved adequately, and I didn't start to come to terms with it, until I was in my early 20's, when the realisation began to hit me. Of course, this didn't stop me being affected by it, and during my 30's, I began to hit back at men a little, as a single woman. I'm not saying I did really nasty stuff, just that I wanted to use them the way they often made women feel, and it worked too. But I didn't like myself very much, and eventually I came to terms with the fact that I was really only hurting myself more!

I'm not sure what your experience has been in life when single, (and how you dealt with the pain of that abuse) but it seems you are dealing with the pain of it all over again, in your marriage. Can you access therapy for yourself if your husband won't attend? Have you considered this?

Please do, as I am not sure what resources for free are available in your country, but there are some very good ones here. The internet is a good place to look.

Take all that you can, and need, so you can continue to have your feelings/pain validated, since it certainly seems that your partner is not willing to respect how you are feeling about this or even obey your boundaries.

With BP (in your partner) as an issue, it must be making things that much harder for you again. My best wishes for resolving your situation... .

My recent exuBP partner sexually abused me too, and just the same, in the early days, he thought nothing of provoking nasty horrible fights, and then like magic, wanting to go to bed and make up! If I (rarely) wasn't up to it emotionally, he would turn on me, but then even when I did, he could turn on me minutes after, provoking me again, and justify his actions over something 'I had done' to hurt him! Maddening and so painful... .

Even at times threatening me if I didn't feel like it, that he would find another woman to meet his 'needs', then he would turn around, (just like that split person they are) and make out he was a big sexual prude, that it wasn't ever that important to him, and he could take it or leave it. Even accusing me of treating him like a booty call, once he stopped living with me, (too violent and unpredictable to live with) and returned to sponge off his elderly parents.

The person I was with before I met BP was exactly the same, but worse in some ways. We were together for 2 years, and he had been cheating on his wife a large part of their marriage, (of course he felt justified too since she felt estranged from him). He did not tell me this at first, but I had always suspected this, if anything, he told me the biggest pack of lies ever, and it wasn't the first time I had been lied to and set up by a married man either. That made it all the more disgusting to me.

God, I could go on and on, but I won't.

Just that my heart goes out to you, I know you are being manipulated into taking the blame here. Please don't believe it!

[goldylamont]

regarding sex and/or emotional intimacy, i think i may be a rare case of being right in the middle on this. i see for many people that the BPDx seemed to be the best sex in their lives and then for others it seemed mechanical and fake after a while. Also for me regarding "love" of intimacy, I've felt the same degree of love and passion from other healthy women... . but unfortunately for me my exBPD got to me right when i wanted to settle down...

it's hard really for me to remember specifically, but to me the sex was simply "great"--great because i loved this person and was really attracted to her. but i've had "better" sex before and after her, with women i truly enjoyed and respected (some of whom i loved). i'm sure my ex perhaps used sex to control me, etc., but i was unaware of it. there's only two things i can think of that were weird--early on in the r/s we did something in bed and it was great... . but then after that it never happened again. it wasn't a big deal to me that it never happened again but at any rate i'm thinking she just used that early on in the r/s to try to fool me into thinking she was freakier than she actually was.

the only other experience that comes to mind is one time that i didn't want to have sex with her--and i forget specifics but i know it's because she was being so damn cruel to me for days. well, when i said i wasn't in the mood, she was **pissed** that i would turn her down; and this just made me want it less. she was incredibly selfish, i would try so many things to keep our sex life fun and active but the one time i didn't want it b/c of her cruelty she just piled on more.

and, i totally agree with a couple other posters on here regarding the initial question about BPDs not crossing the boundary of saying that sex with you was bad--i'm sure my ex would tell other men that sex with me was bad. i don't know this for sure but i'm just saying that this is in her evil nature. i distinctly remember her telling me before our (only) fake-recycle, when she was trying to reel me back in about a guy she was dating. her words out of the blue "... and, i don't want to give you too much info, but sex with Otherguy just isn't that great. He just isn't... . attentive... . ". This was about control for her, IMO. At this point she wanted to pave the path to reel me back in... . who knows really though. But I don't doubt for a second that she capable of trashing our sexual r/s to others this is someone who lacks all integrity and honesty once you reach the hater phase.

[Surnia]

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