Financial entitlement...

[Moonie75]

My high functioning un diagnosed ex had a track record of boyfriends with well paid jobs or privileged circumstances. I was not in those brackets when we met & so ignored this.

But during break ups I did (as is normal when relationships end) have people telling me their true thoughts. I did hear a lot of "she's a gold digger" type stuff, an awful lot actually. Mine did have some triangulation (read definition) with me, her & a rich dude last year.

And during her divorce from her husband she was very interested in the financial aspect (which is now settled). But the legal side that parts them to total single independence of each other remains in place. basically the turkey remortgaged the house, gave her half the equity but remains still legally tied to her!

I noticed reading other folks posts that a lot of them seem to have left feeling financially 'taken'.

Or am I being too judgmental?

[Octoberfest]

It certainly is not ALWAYS the case. My Ex is a diagnosed BPD and she was ADAMANT about paying for her way through life herself.  She had her grandfathers GI bill to get her through school, but she largely refused to accept money or have others pay for her.  Whenever we went to eat somewhere or to a store to buy something it was a struggle that I often lost to pay for her.  She always felt like she had been controlled much of her life I think and by working for what she had like she did and refusing to have people pay for her I think she may have been trying to break free of that.

[Perfidy]

I felt like I owned her. Paid for in full. Cash. In seven and a half years I put a quarter million dollars out directly for her support. She actually had the nerve to tell me it wasn't enough. She worked not one day the whole time I knew her. Not one gift for Christmas,birthday,valentines day... . etc. I showered her with gifts. She was a derelict.

[gettingoverit]

There does seem to be a correlation between the two. I would definitely say my xBPDgf was a huge gold digger. Never had any money to rub together, but always expected me to fork out the money for the BIG purchases with the promise that she would help pay it back or what have you. She had  champagne taste on a water bottle budget. I think the bottom line is since it seems they are always on survival mode, they are always looking for that greener grass. Everything was fine until I started telling her no we couldn't afford this or that. So she would buy stuff and hide it from me, she would get her bff to pretend to give her gifts so I wouldn't find out she had bought herself another $400 purse. She eventually left me for someone who is 12 years older, is 50 but looks 65, has a government job and pension, has quite a bit more cash than I do and who up until this point has not said no to her yet. All she has to do is look good and put out every once in a while. I think there is a word for that kind of woman. Is she a gold digger... . ya I would say so.

[wishfulthinking]

I got an inheritance from my grandmother last year and probably 15,000 has gone to helping my uBPDh with his bills and just crap.  I have quite a bit left, but it's a separate account he can't see and I've told him I'm flat busted.  I even haven't paid my water bill or internet bill and am going to get late notices on them because he needs to help.  I'm not spending another extra dime.  He claims he wants to help financially and his work is picking up (construction) but whatever he gets he spends.  He will give me some and need it back or like last night, he gave me 100 and then asked me to get him his energy drinks, cigarettes, and meat for dinner.  We also needed toilet paper.  Later he sent me out to get more energy drinks for today.  I have 60 left... . hmmm... . that won't cover the 40 ATM he took and the 2 overdraft charges it got me at 35 a pop... . He doesn't seem concerned... .

[bpdspell]

Our BPD's are certainly looking to be re-parented: provided for, protected, nurtured, validated, and unconditionally loved so I can certainly see why money would play an important part in their ability to gauge who can best fulfill their bottomless pit of need.

The label gold-digger does feel a bit crass and can overshadow the fact that their drive to be taken care on all fronts is due more to their mental illness than a parasitical need to suck us dry for sport.

My BPDexbf was attracted to older established woman and made no bones about it. In his mind his best chance at getting his needs met came in the package of an older woman who had the means to take full care of him. Which totally makes sense if your hunger and drive are all about finding an idealized mommy replacement.

Did my ex work? Yes. But his money was his to play with... . and my money... . well... . it was his too because that's what mothers are supposed to do.

The entitlement we experience with them is a huge part of their grandiose narcissism in operation. In their narrative; they are owed and if we want to be with them we need to pay up and make up for what they never received as children.

So gold digger? If it makes you feel better to use that perspective then go for it.

But I choose to see their materialistic greed and entitlement as a part of their longing to be filled up by any means necessary. They are emotionally empty and unstable and having access to material things seems to be a temporary soother (kinda like a pacifier) for a permanent problem. But unfortunately when they receive; it (it being love, money, material things, trips, phones, toys, food, sex) is never enough. It will never make them happy because "otherness" will never heal their pangs of emptiness.

Spell

[causticdork]

I think BPDspells's explanation is a solid one.  Mine only worked for about a month during the entire time we were together, but she never pressured me to pay for expensive things (except the occasional whining that we never went anywhere for vacation).  She wasn't after jewelry or fancy clothes or a new car or anything like that.  She just seemed to feel like it was my job as her partner to take care of her.  I wouldn't call her a gold-digger.  Just an emotional child.

[SweetCharlotte]

I concur very much with BPDspell's assessment of the underlying causes of money problems with pwBPD. That is VERY insightful, BPDspell!

My estranged uBPDh has been high-functioning since his thirties so I would not call him a gold-digger exactly.

However, I do call him a "money pit." When we were getting engaged, he told me he had about $60,000 of debt from having paid for his own college and graduate degrees. He makes $70,000 and I make a bit more than that, so it didn't sound too bad.

By the time we married, he confessed to having $90,000 in debts (he had forgotten a couple credit card accounts). The month after we married, I did ten years of back tax returns, both state and federal, for him. Part of his illness is that he cannot make a statement about himself in written form; a sense-of-self issue. He had assured me that the government owed HIM money. Well, all told, I now had a husband with outstanding debts of $120,000. He refused to consider bankruptcy because it would harm his self esteem. And then, using this newly organized financial status that my efforts granted him, he converted much of his credit card debt into another educational loan, which cannot be canceled out by bankruptcy anyway. And this becomes part of our "matrimonial indebtedness" should we ever divorce. He did not consult me about taking out the ed loan.

Would he have been interested in me if I made substantially less money than he did, and if I didn't have assets that at least match his debts? I doubt it. After a life of financial irresponsibility (he has obviously engaged in binge spending as well as living beyond his means in general, in addition to paying for his own education), he felt comfortable with someone who was solvent with a bright financial future. He told me so; he said he looked me up on Facebook and saw that I had done well. That's how I bagged this trophy husband.

Now I observe that all the liquid assets I had when we were married have pretty much disappeared. When there is a tax bill due for both of us, guess who pays? And guess who apparently doesn't have enough withheld from his salary? So I have that feeling of being pulled down into the money pit. Trouble is, I don't know whether I can afford to divorce him!

[ObiRedKenobi]

Mine seemed like she wanted taken care of more than anything. Even now it seems she is more upset about not being supported and taken care of than broken up about me leaving. Thats what really gets me worked up. That all the care and work I did wasn't going towards building a relationship it was actually just trying to fulfill constantly changing unspecified needs she felt.

[wishfulthinking]

I wonder if the tax thing goes with the BPD thing.  My uBPDh hasn't filed taxes in years, he said like almost 10 years.  Of course when did I find this out? After we were married, of course.  My friend had a husband that wasn't paying child support and she filed "wounded spouse' forms with her taxes so they couldn't hold her responsible.  I wonder if that would work for us?

[Ittookthislong]

nope your right on track at least with my situation. and im a woman who dated a man... . he was the first man ive ever called a goldigger and a diva, but yes it was shocking how once my money ran out, he was gone and found someone else to mooch off of (while telling the new people that i tried to control him with money)

i think its the being taken care of aspect that they like maybe, who knows

im so broke

[winston72]

Ah, SweetCharlotte, I laughed out loud at this line... . a laughter of shared pain and empathy " That's how I bagged this trophy husband."  Ugh.  Money pit indeed.

BPDSpell... . I copied and pasted your post into an email to myself... . I will be reading it like a liturgical chant.  :)on't know why I need to do this because I lived it (!) but such is my need for enlightenment.  My SO was raised in a home that was emotionally and financially impoverished.  She has a well-deserved fear of financial instability.  She equates money with love.  She knows it, we discussed it, I knew it.  I was raised in modest circumstances but had financial success over the years.  So, money to her was love, I had some money, she wanted to be taken care of, I wanted to take care of her... . a perfect romance!  

Actually, that is all quite true... . and the impulses from within me and that I read from her still do not feel "off" or "unhealthy" to me.  The results were incredibly painful, so I am on my journey of self discovery and, hopefully, personal transformation.  It is so incredibly hard to see ourselves and to learn new patterns of relating to ourselves and significant others.  

While her relationship to wealth can be analyzed endlessly, my corresponding needs, aspirations and reward systems can (and will!) be analyzed endlessly X2!

Thank you all for sharing.  I am so humbled by the gracious candor of people on this site.  I am a gold-digger for the precious metal of your insights.

[snappafcw]

This was actually the biggest self esteem killer for me... .

I agree with all the others above. Now I'm better educated on BPD I do understand its more apart of the illness than being an actually gold digger. My ex girlfriend worked hard. Made her own money but was a compulsive shopper. I earnt about the same money but because she worked a lot harder for it i was trying to be a good man and pay for everything (became a bit co dependant) I spoilt her... . Paid for all our dates, gave her money, Paid for haircuts... . I wasn't driving at the time so I made sure her car was full of petrol as well... . She never went without. Well towards the end when she was splitting me back she was trying to tell me I don't earn enough money and that her family/work colleagues (tradition asian) think I'm a bum (I'm a DJ and sole trader and get to work from home) After all I did for her for her to say that absolutely smashed my self esteem and to this day I haven't recovered.

[Ittookthislong]

snappafw thats a lot like my scenario. at least i can tell you with clarity looking at what you wrote that that is ridiculous. i trhink they make us insecure so we are in shock looking at ourselves rather than seeing what they are coverring up. those are really nice things you did for your girlfriend, and that should be appreciated... .

i forgot to mention- my ex and i were both painters. i cashed in my life insurance and savings to pay for us to live together and for his startup. then he gets a job and he started introduving me as his girlfriend whos a housecleaner. meanwhile the only reason im cleaning houses to suppliment income is because ive helped him out .

he got very snobby after that asking me "whats wrong with you your a full grown woman" insulting me for struggling financially after he ditches me "were on different paths now" while he was buying himself a whole new look. this confused me and THIS KILLED MY SELF ESTEEM TOO! I understand. He literally thinks im so below him now, i cant even bring myself to paint because even the smell of paint reminds me of him and makes me sick

i do understand how you feel. even though it is so ridiculous it cant make sense, its still impossible to stop thinking about.

im over not getting credit for everything i did for him, sometimes i still get sad that he cant even make himself see it as evidence that someone loves him. he cant believe that... . they dislike themselves so much that its easier to come up with some ratinale that makes no logical sense than to just realize you did it because you loved them, flaws and all. lame.

[ScotisGone74]

I wouldn't actually term my exBPD a 'gold digger', but what I would say is that she had not one clue on how to plan for major expenditures and manage money.  I think they feel like some big expensive leather couch, purse, new vehicle, etc, etc will make them 'feel' better, actually be better, or appear better than other people.  It never works.   Much like other things, I would term their way of managing money or expenses as Child like.  They can go from having absolutely no care in the world about finances to wanting to control every cent one day. 

[Blade99d]

Our BPD's are certainly looking to be re-parented: provided for, protected, nurtured, validated, and unconditionally loved so I can certainly see why money would play an important part in their ability to gauge who can best fulfill their bottomless pit of need.

The label gold-digger does feel a bit crass and can overshadow the fact that their drive to be taken care on all fronts is due more to their mental illness than a parasitical need to suck us dry.

Wow... . this is incredibly insighful.  I actually called my ex out on this, as it felt like she was just using me.  It never occured to me that she wasn't doing it on purpose.  I grow every day reading on these forums.  

[Clearmind]

Moonie,

My ex was very entitled - and yes this is part of the disorder. Borderlines do not intentionally do what they do. They operate on a level similar to that of a 3 year old.

Now that being said. I had to really look at why I was so bent on still rescuing a man who was felt so entitled to my money, my possessions, wanted me to buy him things and yet was still not happy and content. This was certainly not the basis of a healthy relationship.

I guess what your topic does show above all else is that we do ignore red flags and maybe need to focus on what is healthy relating.

We can all now chalk this up to experience and not only find out why we thought it was OK, why we ignored the red flags, why we may still harbor anger towards our partner after the fact.

Confusion is a given however anger is a super emotion which stems from shame - we often feel intense shame coming out of these relationships because we believe we were taken for a ride "How dare they". I guess the point being is that no one can take you for a ride without your (my/our) permission. Entitlement probably falls under the "respect" aspect of the quote below. Mutual respect is the foundation of a healthy relationship.

Maybe have a think about other red flags you may have ignored for the sake of keeping the peace... . this is important because delving a little deeper than "is she a gold digger" will help you not choosing Borderline #2 (I have had 3 BPD relationships - took me a while to learn the lessons)... .

Some of the characteristics of a healthy relationship are:

Respect - listening to one another, valuing each other's opinions, and listening in a non-judgmental manner. Respect also involves attempting to understand and affirm the other's emotions.

Trust and support - supporting each other's goals in life, and respecting each other's right to his/her own feelings, opinions, friends, activities and interest. It is valuing one's partner as an individual.

Honesty and accountability - communicating openly and truthfully, admitting mistakes or being wrong, acknowledging past use of violence, and accepting responsibility for one's self.

Shared responsibility - making family/relationship decisions together, mutually agreeing on a distribution of work which is fair to both partners. If parents, the couple shares parental responsibilities and acts as positive, non-violent role models for the children.

Economic partnership - in marriage or cohabitation, making financial decisions together, and making sure both partners benefit from financial arrangements.

Negotiation and fairness - being willing to compromise, accepting change, and seeking mutually satisfying solutions to conflict.

Non-threatening behavior - talking and acting in a way that promotes both partners' feelings of safety in the relationship. Both should feel comfortable and safe in expressing him/herself and in engaging in activities.

More information here... .

All the best to you... .

[Moonie75]

Anyway... . Mine wasn't 'one of those financially entitled people' so many speak of.


But she did have a penchant for the plump plumber down the street, or men with fast cars & shoutin a bit too often!

Looking inwards at myself, maybe I was trying to find something I hadn't had to put up with?

[SweetCharlotte]

Looking inwards at myself, maybe I was trying to find something I hadn't had to put up with?

With me it was quite the opposite, Moonie. I was well aware from the start that I was falling in love with him because he reminded me of the financial irresponsibility of my parents (BPD Mom and bipolar Dad, both alcoholics). I knew I was flying close to the flame and could get burned—I had to spend several years estranged from my parents as an adult, and then they suddenly self-destructed.

I was aware of it and I did it anyway. It felt good at the time. I had been a "good girl" for at least twelve years, just taking care of my children and financially supporting them. I literally had no sex for twelve years. Then he came along and I said, "Gather ye rosebuds while ye may," or some such nonsense. I felt that I deserved the fun, and from experience I know that I cannot have fun any other way (only deeply disturbed men appeal to me; it's like a sexual orientation that one cannot change). I knew that there would be Hell to pay later. Sinfulness followed by punishment and repentance. Catholic upbringing anyone?

[Surnia]

A bitter topic and a important one.

So many here were involved in financial disasters, including me, especially the last two rs. Converted I worked nearly 2 years from my life only for my last 2 partners, how sick is this? :'(

I feel ashamed about it. I had always partners who earned less money than me. I could play the good girl. And sure it gave me security. Somebody who is financial depending from me, makes me forget that I feel not worthy enough being loved. It is easier to pay for love. This is what I have to face. And yes, this hurts.


To SweetCharlotte

Yes, catholic upbringing too. I am struggling with the sinfulness too, a bit different like you I guess but it has definitely supported my low self esteem.

[MindfulMan]

Mine seemed like she wanted taken care of more than anything. Even now it seems she is more upset about not being supported and taken care of than broken up about me leaving. Thats what really gets me worked up. That all the care and work I did wasn't going towards building a relationship it was actually just trying to fulfill constantly changing unspecified needs she felt.

Wow. That feels exactly like my exBPD gf. I thought she was a user but now I see that's its just part of the illness. She has had multiple sclerosis (remitting relapse) and struggle with the fear she can't work and will be abandoned. It gives me more compassion.

[KellyO]

But I choose to see their materialistic greed and entitlement as a part of their longing to be filled up by any means necessary. They are emotionally empty and unstable and having access to material things seems to be a temporary soother (kinda like a pacifier) for a permanent problem. But unfortunately when they receive; it (it being love, money, material things, trips, phones, toys, food, sex) is never enough. It will never make them happy because "otherness" will never heal their pangs of emptiness.

Spell

This is something I figured out too. And because they know somewhere in their inner self what ever their greed gives them, it is only replacement for what they never had and theiy just try to fill their longing with replacements, they never value anything, and whatever they get is disrespected. I have an example: my exBF got himself a fancy new cellphone, and was very exited about it (the "high" of getting some need met). I was in awe when I saw how he treated the phone. It was thrown to floor, to walls, casted aside, kept in pocket with keys so it would get scrached, I think only thing he did not do was to flush it from the toilet.

And later it hit me: I was treated like that phone. That phone did not fill his endless pit, neither did I. At first he tried to make me do it, and when he saw the pit is still there, I was unworthy. I was there, but so was the pit. His total disrespect for anything, his unability to give credit to anyone was always something I was so baffled about. He did not even uderstand the whole consept of respect when I said about it to him. He has one need: fill the pit. It does not work out, ever, because he has to fill the pit himself, and everything is replacement until he manages to SEE the pit is there and he has to deal with it. And because everything is replacement that fails, everyhting is unworthy, unvalued and disrespected.

I think there lies the entitlement.

[Trick1004]

Interesting post,

I wouldn't classify my ex as a gold-digger. She was always very adamant about not letting me pick up her share of the rent or pick up the tab when we went out to eat, go to the bar, or whatever, even though I was more than happy to.

She made plenty of money at her bar-tending job but never had anything set aside. I had a couple of fairly well paying contracting jobs while I was with her and she would get pissed as hell about how much I made but wasn't loose with my money.

We had several arguments where I would tell her after taxes I was making about as much as she was bar-tending and how much of her tips did she claim anyway? This always set her off, she saw her tips as a "gift" and thus there was no reason to claim them and I would fire back "according to the IRS, you are supposed to claim them and let me know when you give an extra 8 grand a year in taxes how you feel about it." In the four years I've know her she never claimed a cent in tips, she always had an excuse not to but would always get on my case about the amount of money I made I never spent any of it.

I would be the last person she would go to for money even though I offered on multiple occasions to pick up rent, her school tuition, whatever.

When she decided she wanted to leave me we still had a month on our lease and wanted to keep living with me I. I said no way, I'll pay the last months rent but she needed to leave now and she could move while I was at work. For about three weeks while she was moving out there was an envelope on the table with her rent that despite everything I said about not needing or wanting it she wanted me to have it.

I finally wrote on the envelope, "whatever you don't take I'm donating to Catholic church (I grew up Catholic) down the street". The next day the envelope was gone.

So gold-digger no, but she definitely uses money as a lever of control.

[Skip]

I noticed reading other folks posts that a lot of them seem to have left feeling financially 'taken'.

Or am I being too judgmental?

Maybe a little, but we're all brothers and we are grieving a loss.

But maybe more importantly is to remember that the questions we ask are as often more important than the answers we receive.  Or put another way, if we ask a biased or misleading question, no matter how accurate the answer, we will end up with less insight when all is said and done.

Two years ago a member asked if all people with BPD were left handed and had thyroid problems.  Immediately the thread was filled with "my ex too" comments.  The OP then concluded that the government could screen for left handed people with thyroid disease and restrict them from having babies.

Anything wrong with this investigation?

For starters, with 75,000 members, 11% of the population left handed, and 7% with thyroid disease, what does it mean when 20 people say -  "my ex too"?  It means that on any message board with 8,000 daily visitors 62 people wold have dating partners that were left handed and have thyroid disease.  

So in a normal population of divorced and broken up people, how many people would feel their ex felt financially entitled? Is it any different here?  Is there any correlation to BPD?

It's a very different question (and better) to ask,  "my ex was financially irresponsible and I paid for almost everything - is money what held us together - me buying love - her selling love"?  

Over the years, I've seen people heal and grow here and I've seen people leave here to jump on the next train wreck - both feeling they learned a lot here.  

The difference is often seen in the questions they asked.

[Jep]

Hi everyone, it was great to read all these posts. I felt like I was the glue that held it all together for 9 years. I had a feeling that she wouldn't be able to take care of herself financially without me. She just never did the math. She honestly believed that she helped support us when in reality she spent far more than she made. While breaking up a couple months ago she told everyone she was the bread winner in this relationship.

Well the guy she left me for is a loser. He's 44 and lives with his mom, dad, and brother. She got an apartment and he is there a lot, but here's the thing. Her 2nd month of rent is late. The car I co-signed a loan for is days away from repossession, she has no food, or gas in her car. The cable tv, Internet and phone is shut off. She constantly asks me for money, which I won't give to her. I am putting everything back together for myself.

Although I would hope she sees now what i did for her I am absolutely positive that she thinks her problems are all my fault. "How dare I burden her with a car loan?", or why won't I give her money after everything she's done for me?

She left me in the most hurtful way possible and admitted that the hurt was intentional. She said she wanted me to feel like she does. Wow, thanks!  She also left me with our 6year old son whom she has neglected since she left. I want nothing to do with her at this point. Yes it hurt terribly for a few weeks, and sometimes still does, but I will never go back. I am armed now with a wealth of knowledge and insight that I have learned here. Our stories are all so similar it's kind of creepy.

Thanks everyone,

Jp

[atcrossroads]

I got an inheritance from my grandmother last year and probably 15,000 has gone to helping my uBPDh with his bills and just crap.  I have quite a bit left, but it's a separate account he can't see and I've told him I'm flat busted.  I even haven't paid my water bill or internet bill and am going to get late notices on them because he needs to help.  I'm not spending another extra dime.  He claims he wants to help financially and his work is picking up (construction) but whatever he gets he spends.  He will give me some and need it back or like last night, he gave me 100 and then asked me to get him his energy drinks, cigarettes, and meat for dinner.  We also needed toilet paper.  Later he sent me out to get more energy drinks for today.  I have 60 left... . hmmm... . that won't cover the 40 ATM he took and the 2 overdraft charges it got me at 35 a pop... . He doesn't seem concerned... .

Have you decided if you are staying with him?  It's smart that you have money hidden away from him - it will help if/when you go.

[Notthesame64]

I felt like I owned her. Paid for in full. Cash. In seven and a half years I put a quarter million dollars out directly for her support. She actually had the nerve to tell me it wasn't enough. She worked not one day the whole time I knew her. Not one gift for Christmas,birthday,valentines day... . etc. I showered her with gifts. She was a derelict.

A complete opposite from my life... I think mine never had birthdays or christmas... gift exchanges.  He always broke up with me during these times so he didn't have to buy me anything...   Out of 6 years I never once received a wrapped present of any kind...

[Emelie Emelie]

Have to say I didn't experience this at all.  I made a lot more money than he did.  He realized it.  I think it really bothered him on some level.  He was pretty macho and it was a pride thing with him.  It was several months of dating until I could pick up a check.  He was having cash flow problems in his business once.  He had to buy some equipment for a lucrative job and didn't have the cash on hand.  Receivables were running way behind.  He was really stressed out about.  I offered to lend him the money.  He flat out refused.  He said I am not taking money from you.  I said it's just a short term loan.  He said absolutely not.  End of subject.  Maybe it's different with men and women.