what place in our lives for pwBPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi, so here's a general question I'm struggling with.  I have a mother with very strong BPD traits although undiagnosed, and have an ex boyfriend who is BPD diagnosed.  Since linking my attraction to pwBPD to the fact that I was raised by someone with similar traits, I'm trying to determine how to "engage" with my mother, and others in my life who exhibit similar traits.  My mother is part of my life, however I have recently started placing much stricter boundaries on the relationship.   I have to say I don't necessarily believe in no contact, because in a way it adds to the drama, which is what I'm trying to get away from.  Right now, I am no contact with my ex, and I'm finding that difficult.  I also can't ever imagine myself going no contact with my mother. I just don't believe that it will help anything. But maybe I'm wrong? 

I guess this really is the purpose of all these boards so it's probably not an easy one to answer, but how do you figure out what place in your life you give to people you are close to who have BPD?  Is it arms length? do you cut them off?  Do you consider them as children? do you try and help them? Do you try and get some of your needs filled by them? Do you work and grow with them? Or alone? I am finding it difficult to define how to position and define these complicated, draining and generally unfulfilling relationships with people, that, despite it all, touch me deeply and that I do love.  I am working on myself so as to reconcile my issues, but in that process I need to define the relationships I have and want with different people and I am struggling on where to place my mother in my life, and I guess, my ex.

[caughtnreleased]

Hi, so here's a general question I'm struggling with.  I have a mother with very strong BPD traits although undiagnosed, and have an ex boyfriend who is BPD diagnosed.  Since linking my attraction to pwBPD to the fact that I was raised by someone with similar traits, I'm trying to determine how to "engage" with my mother, and others in my life who exhibit similar traits.  My mother is part of my life, however I have recently started placing much stricter boundaries on the relationship.   I have to say I don't necessarily believe in no contact, because in a way it adds to the drama, which is what I'm trying to get away from.  Right now, I am no contact with my ex, and I'm finding that difficult.  I also can't ever imagine myself going no contact with my mother. I just don't believe that it will help anything. But maybe I'm wrong? 

I guess this really is the purpose of all these boards so it's probably not an easy one to answer, but how do you figure out what place in your life you give to people you are close to who have BPD?  Is it arms length? do you cut them off?  Do you consider them as children? do you try and help them? Do you try and get some of your needs filled by them? Do you work and grow with them? Or alone? I am finding it difficult to define how to position and define these complicated, draining and generally unfulfilling relationships with people, that, despite it all, touch me deeply and that I do love.  I am working on myself so as to reconcile my issues, but in that process I need to define the relationships I have and want with different people and I am struggling on where to place my mother in my life, and I guess, my ex.

[GeekyGirl]

It's really all about what you're comfortable with and how likely it is that you'll establish and keep the boundaries you need to keep you safe (emotionally as well as physically).

I have learned to trust my gut instinct, especially when it comes to dealing with my mother. I have a controlled relationship with her and see her when it's ok for the both of us. Because of her history and being a somewhat-protective mother myself, I do not feel comfortable having her alone with my son, which is a boundary I've put into place. I know that I cannot count on her to meet my needs; I have to take care of them myself. I do, however, expect her to respect my limits and individuality--and it's important that I do the same to her.

It's tough to define the relationship, especially you're torn and when society frowns upon not being close to your parents. You have to define the relationship you'll have with your mother and your ex, but keep in mind that it can change and evolve over time. You can adjust how much you see her or talk to her. You can meet her in places that are comfortable for you.

So that said... . when you envision your relationship with your mother, what would make you the most comfortable? How often do you want to see her? Do you see her as a child emotionally? You're asking some good questions to yourself. 

[caughtnreleased]

Yes I would say I see both my mother and my ex as children... . emotionally. However, my BPD ex touched me in a very profound way, and because of that and knowing he is BPD and my own vulnerability to being involved with people with BPD, it's hard for me to determine whether I want to be in touch with him, and if so what kind of relationship I can or should expect with him, and whether I am strong enough to maintain boundaries with him.  I just don't know on that front. For my mother, she is present in my life and will be regardless of what I do, but I have really started pushing back with her. It's still very hard for me not too feel guilty when I do put down my boundaries, so perhaps that is what I am struggling with.  How to not feel guilty when you set and maintain boundaries, and how to be less vulnerable to the different hooks that are used by people with BPD to manipulate you.  I guess in my mind I think that if I deal with my own issues, and am therefore less vulnerable to the tactics they use, then I would be able to create a place for them in my life that I would be able to manage... . but maybe I am also placing to much responsibility on myself to make these relationships work.  I guess the idea of creating/maintaining distance between both of these people is difficult for me... . I need to detach somehow and suppose am still struggling with it.

[PrettyPlease]

It's really all about what you're comfortable with and how likely it is that you'll establish and keep the boundaries you need to keep you safe (emotionally as well as physically).

I have learned to trust my gut instinct, especially when it comes to dealing with my mother. I have a controlled relationship with her and see her when it's ok for the both of us.

+1   

unhooking, I agree with GeekyGirl's comments above, and relied on these things in my own relationships with my uBPD mother (now deceased). And I agree with her that you're asking the right questions.

For me "I feel guilty" was a big one. I know now -- intellectually at least -- that almost none of these feelings were real guilt, in the sense that I did something that was the result of an unethical choice that I made. Rather, that guilty feeling was something that was expected of me; that I was trained into by the peculiar interface that my uBPD mother had with me in my impressionable years.

how to be less vulnerable to the different hooks that are used by people with BPD to manipulate you.

I can't say for sure the following is 'true', but I've found it useful to listen to those who say that pwBPD aren't manipulating us. The most problematic things they do have nothing to do with 'us', because we're just a target for their mental disorder; literally a target, not a person. They don't model us as being there, as real people, in their brains, when this is happening -- at least not in the way that non-disordered people do. So they aren't manipulating us, they're manipulating symbols -- we're a fill in for some prior need of theirs.

At first I found this hard to accept, because naturally I needed my mother to know who I was; to care what I thought, felt, and wanted. Every child comes with that need built in. And so I didn't like the idea that she wasn't even capable of noticing my needs at all. But after trying it out, I realized that this was easier to accept than the alternative: that it was purposeful manipulation designed to harm me. I don't think it was. It wasn't healthy, but it had nothing to do with me. And so anything I could do to stop it would probably be a plus, for both me and society as a whole. And stopping it probably wouldn't make life any worse for my mother (and might even make her life better, if I wasn't triggering her as much).

Looking at it this way allowed me to set the boundaries I needed to maintain my own health and psychological balance, and then, later, not to feel guilty when my mother self-destructed and I wasn't there to 'help' her.  It was tragic, but there are many tragic things in this world. My being continuously unhappy about it wasn't going to help. And so I was able to pull my head out of this loop and see that it's a big complicated world with lots to do -- much of which is more fun than the family I grew up in.   

I had to mourn something, of course, but it was the loss of what I thought I had -- a mother who loved me -- and her own unnecessarily tormented life, that I mourned. Not her death. I have a hunch she didn't really want to be here anyway. 

PP

p.s. I know that some of this post is wishful thinking -- I still do feel guilty, sometimes, about things that I know are not my fault and are out of my control. There's only so much we can do about that early learning. Sometimes I can even feel guilty about feeling guilty.   

[caughtnreleased]

Thanks so much for your messages and your advice.  In the end, having read through the messages here I guess for me it boils down to detaching from trying to get what I never had, and probably will never get: a mother who acknowledged and provided for my emotional needs.  I suppose that I can find a partner who provides for my emotional needs if I do go through the grieving process properly and change the choices and relationships in my life. 

Perhaps, since I am at the beginning of this grieving process, I am curious if anyone has insight on how grieving and dealing with the relationship with your BPD parent has helped you in your other adult relationships?

[PrettyPlease]

  Perhaps, since I am at the beginning of this grieving process, I am curious if anyone has insight on how grieving and dealing with the relationship with your BPD parent has helped you in your other adult relationships?

My opinion is that GeekyGirl's advice holds for both. Learning to maintain your boundaries, and to trust your gut instincts, in a healthy way around your BPD parent, requires making changes in yourself and understanding yourself in a fundamentally new way. I think this can't fail to help in relations with other intimate partners -- both in selecting them (or not!  ), and in day-to-day interactions with them.

PP

[GeekyGirl]

Perhaps, since I am at the beginning of this grieving process, I am curious if anyone has insight on how grieving and dealing with the relationship with your BPD parent has helped you in your other adult relationships?

It's very hard to mourn the loss of the parent you thought you had or wish you had. In some ways, it can really feel like your parent has passed away.  :'(

I was already married when I discovered that my mother has BPD, so my perspective may be a little different. I've been working on myself for a few years now in T, and I've made it a point to use my DH for support (as I do the same for him too), but to not let him be my only source of support. Recovering from a childhood with a BPD parent is tough and can be arduous, and I know that it has been hard for DH too. I try to make the most out of T, and give DH some space when he needs it.

My advice to you, unhooking, is to work on yourself, so when you do meet that great partner, you'll be in a stronger place emotionally. 

[StarStruck]

Hi unhooking,

I   with your thoughts here;

... I have and want with different people and I am struggling on where to place my mother in my life, and I guess, my ex.

At one point in my life I had my uBPDmom and a pwuBPD.

I didn't know about the disorders or a name for them at that time though. Over the last 4-6 yrs of understanding pd's. From 4 yrs on, I have sought to remove everyone from my life, in order to benefit my well being. Once I realized the truth of the situation it's easier to deal with the guilt. That was a long, long time ago my pwuBPD, so not a choice I had to make recently. (I bumped into him years after and I'm so glad I didn't keep in contact with him, he was a wreck and was rude). I subsequently went on to meeting another pwBPD, which was only 1.5 yrs and again very pleased I didn't stay with him. (retrospectively realizing they had BPD).

More recently I found out about my Mom at the same time I found that my former boyfriend had uNPD. Bit of a  . It opened my world.

So I finally went NC with the narc. Best thing I have ever, ever done. Also I have got more and more Low Contact with Mom, quite easy to do in my case because it's happened by accident, she's gone cold. Problem being now that I actively want to start new boundaries... . and this will be the very first time properly. Cringing thought at the moment. I think it will be great to be there when she realizes I'm standing up for myself... . if you see what I mean. I want to see it working face to face, it will give me strength and courage for the future, for whatever decision I go for with her. 

Good luck with this, you're asking yourself all the right questions, they do your head in but hey that's why were all on here, to support one another. The questions you've asked yourself are exactly what's been through my head the last year and I'm sure there's plenty of others that will tell you the same.

Lots 

Pretty please... . the way you have described the feelings you have been through, your viewpoint and the understanding you have, really has made a lot of sense to me. This is very much like how I feel. To read that in those words as succinctly put  - allows me to truly realize where I am with all this. Thank you. 

GeekyGirl Instinct with boundaries, great thought. Trusting ourselves, really trusting. Afterall we know what's best for us don't we... . we ARE us!