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Author Topic: are you still in love with them?  (Read 4373 times)
laelle
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« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2013, 12:38:12 PM »

I believe that they are on a constant and never ending search for someone to idealize, and do not have the ability to have a deep and committed relationship.  I did not say that they do not want to have one, but that they are unable to.  They can not sustain their emotions and therefore they can not sustain their love for you.  New or recycled relationships give them the chance to play out their CORE script again... . which will always end in abandonment.  It is a bit like watching the same movie over and over hoping that the ending will change, but knowing that as you have seen the movie a million times it will end no differently.

As the idealization faded from your relationship, they realized that you would not be the person to change the ending for them, not realizing that it is only themselves who can change that.  You get the blame for not being something that you have no ability to be.  The movie then stops, the curtains are dropped, the lights come on, and you are sent straight for the exit sign.

You were a play through... . you were not the first and not the last.  They cant help it, they are mentally ill.
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Undone123
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« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2013, 12:46:36 PM »

I believe that they are on a constant and never ending search for someone to idealize, and do not have the ability to have a deep and committed relationship.  I did not say that they do not want to have one, but that they are unable to.  They can not sustain their emotions and therefore they can not sustain their love for you.  New or recycled relationships give them the chance to play out their CORE script again... . which will always end in abandonment.  It is a bit like watching they same movie over and over hoping that the ending will change, but knowing that as you have seen the movie a million times it will end no differently.

As the idealization faded from your relationship, they realized that you would not be the person to change the ending for them, not realizing that it is only themselves who can change that.  You get the blame for not being something that you have no ability to be.  The movie then stops, the curtains are dropped, the lights come on, and you are sent straight for the exit sign.

You were a play through... . you were not the first and not the last.  They cant help it, they are mentally ill.

Great analogy
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danley
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2013, 01:00:47 PM »

Yes I still love him. But that doesn't change the situation that happened and is happening. Even tho we all have our own definitions of what love means to them, the basic stuff like caring, loyalty, Trust, understanding, patience, empathy, and commitment will be some of the things that we all agree should be a CONSTANT (not just when convenient). Some of the basic basic stuff was full force but dwindled in my ex as we went along or actually was shown from him when it was convenient.  But for me, it started out slowly and progressed as time went by and it grew stronger. That basic foundation was always there.

For me, its like planting a seed on strong fertile soil... . nuturing, careful pruning, and providing the proper conditions for it so that it grows, flourishes, and blossoms. My ex knows what the seed needs in order to grow and flourish but he chooses to plant in sand. He chooses to nuture when it's convenient for him. He prunes carelessly, sometimes severing areas that were already growing and also areas that needed pruning he'd ignore. He wouldn't see how providing the right conditions would help the seed to grow. He would want instant results and when he didn't see what he wanted, he'd ignore caring for a while. Then he'd come back and try to bring it back to life but by then it's too late... . Dead. Or even worse, there's a lot of damage done and he wouldn't know where to begin on how to bring it back to life. I want the seed (love) to THRIVE. Unlike my ex who had the mentality of just SURVIVE.

The feelings part has too many variables. But the bottom line is that normal people don't just switch off the love feelings like a light. It's something that grows over time and it takes a while to let go of. It's not abnormal to hold on to the feelings of loving someone as long as it doesn't bring you pain or hurt. But in most cases here, there's a lot of pain and hurt still.

I hope that everyone here is able to THRIVE and not just SURVIVE thru their difficult times.

Hang in there... .

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slimmiller
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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2013, 01:09:48 PM »

Can they love?

Yes and No. Yes, if there is something in it for them. And if in the real sense like healthy people love, No! They never saw real love or understood it if they did.

As for what love is,

Love... . just is
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danley
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« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2013, 01:13:07 PM »

I believe that they are on a constant and never ending search for someone to idealize, and do not have the ability to have a deep and committed relationship.  I did not say that they do not want to have one, but that they are unable to.  They can not sustain their emotions and therefore they can not sustain their love for you.  New or recycled relationships give them the chance to play out their CORE script again... . which will always end in abandonment.  It is a bit like watching the same movie over and over hoping that the ending will change, but knowing that as you have seen the movie a million times it will end no differently.

As the idealization faded from your relationship, they realized that you would not be the person to change the ending for them, not realizing that it is only themselves who can change that.  You get the blame for not being something that you have no ability to be.  The movie then stops, the curtains are dropped, the lights come on, and you are sent straight for the exit sign.

You were a play through... . you were not the first and not the last.  They cant help it, they are mentally ill.

I saw my exes and my movie as I was reading thru your post. Lol.

Makes lots of sense.
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charred
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« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2013, 01:14:41 PM »

Makes sense... . my movie had popcorn with hot oil spilled all over me and I stepped in some gum... at the very least. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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danley
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« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2013, 01:18:29 PM »

Makes sense... . my movie had popcorn with hot oil spilled all over me and I stepped in some gum... at the very least. Smiling (click to insert in post)

Sorry but that made me giggle.
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laelle
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« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2013, 01:54:34 PM »

Makes sense... . my movie had popcorn with hot oil spilled all over me and I stepped in some gum... at the very least. Smiling (click to insert in post)

And dont forget the joker sitting a row behind you that keeps talking after the movie starts... . just wanna punch him.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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frustrated b/f
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« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2013, 02:22:48 PM »

I caught myself thinking about how much i love her the other day. However soon realized that I love the person who I thought I fell in love with.

As time progressed, she (the one I fell in love with) showed up less and less. I always thought our relationship would last because I'd convinced myself that "it was easy to fall back in love with her again." Not realizing it was the real her that would cause me to fall out-of-love with her. I haven't seen the woman I fell in love with in nearly two years. Al I have now is basic loyalty-type-love for her.
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« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2013, 04:56:45 PM »

I'm still in love with my uBPDw after the catastrophe she caused to our family, chaotic departure, and her rancor aimed at me. Her status on FB (I'm blocked thank god) is "in a relationship" with POSOM. In 2 days we'll have been separated for 6 months. I honestly thought when I married her that it would be forever. Time heals all wounds, that's the way I see it.
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« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2013, 05:47:01 PM »

Good one charred and laelle and I agree. Very Scared - its partly feeling but not all of it. It's solely feeling love that got me into this mess! Feeling the intensity is not love it's need. I idealised my ex - felt it very strongly - I thought it was love but in hindsight I didn't love him at all. Just feeling it translates to idealising/mirroring.

Love is also about not changing another person but rather embracing the person as is - warts n all. It's about letting go of the need for control. It's about having your own interests and permitting the partner there own. It's mutual trust, respect and admiration. Living life with similar moral codes.

It's pretty simple when you boil it down. It's our own poor coping skills hat skews it.

Love is simply loving yourself so you can love someone else. Having a lack of self worth does not build a healthy relationship - it slowly tears it down because we (me) tended to blame the other person for my feelings. All that leads to a disintegration of trust and respect.

I did not love my ex. I only felt what I thought was love - put no thought into compatibility at all.
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charred
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« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2013, 05:57:14 PM »

Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth" is a good read... mostly on mindfulness, being present and connected, but in part it explains the difference between egoic and authentic feelings.

Our pwBPD... . in my opinion arouse tons of egoic feelings in us, egoic being "false self". They bring out fear and insecurity, defensiveness and lead to fighting like little kids.

The one thing that was truly different to me between love and whatever it was that was in the r/s with a pwBPD... was acceptance. I was with the same woman and married for 22 yrs... we didn't have the electric sparks of the BPD r/s, we had genuine respect and acceptance of each other. At no time did my exwife try to change me, she accepted me as I am.

At no time did my pwBPD really accept me... she always was trying to change me. Used to make no sense... . still doesn't really.
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« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2013, 06:19:04 PM »

Can they love?

I am totally convinced they can and do love. Borderline disorder doesn't not mean unable to feel emotions... . On the contrary it means unable to balance emotions... . That means they do love, ferociously... . And that is why we find them so appealing, because in the beginning they both love and idealize us with everything they got. No restraints... . And that makes us feel all alive. And we get all caught up and addicted to that fairy tale epic love affair... .

The only problem is, the reason they love with such ferociousness is because of their inability to balance emotions... . That is they love too much... . And part of their disorder is also the fact that they just can't sustain it... .

And part of our "disorder" is we don't want to believe it was all too good to be true... .

Best Wishes

Scout99
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2013, 06:23:02 PM »

Love is a sustainable emotion and grows with time

Loving someone includes them being an ongoing focus, creating a warm feeling when you think of them, which is often, wanting the best for them, committed to being there to help with challenges, without needing to try, there is no question.

I dunno, lots of people have tried to define it, there's my 30 second version.

I love my ex, always have, and I was in love with the fantasy of her in my head; shtty realization when the real her showed up after the mirroring and idealization, and I didn't even like who she chose to show up as, never mind love her.  But under all the crap there is a sweetheart, sometimes I saw her between rages, too bad I can't fix her and the sweetheart will be forever unattainable.

And no I was never in love with the real her; being in love takes two people and compatibility, and we had none of that.
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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2013, 07:33:44 PM »

I loved my girlfriend. Despite having my own issues CO-dependant tendencies etc I respected her as best i could, wanted the best for her, supported her, was selfless for her... . I think all those things are love. Unfortunately I didn't get all that back. She said she loved me. But love is a verb. Actions not words.

snappafcw; this exact thing you just wrote is what caused me to lash out and verbally attack her. My therapist recognized it and said it was due to the frustration by her lack of effort. I do think I went overboard but what was I supposed to do? Let her discard me and act like I never mattered without me giving her a piece of my mind... . or play the strong, silent type and just walk away and let her get the best of me? I regret everyday, what I said to her. Every day.

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mcc503764
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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2013, 08:34:51 PM »

In retrospect I believe that I was "in love" with the idea of being "in love."  Love isn't supposed to hurt like this one did.  Love is supposed to endure and not give up and walk away.  Love sees value in things and isn't disposable... . that's the reality of how I was treated... .  

Love isn't supposed to F*&k the neighbor? 

So, I really wonder if I ever truly "loved" her to begin with?  I think it was more of an addiction?

Interesting question

MCC
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gypsy rose

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« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2013, 12:52:46 AM »

Can they love?

I am totally convinced they can and do love. Borderline disorder doesn't not mean unable to feel emotions... . On the contrary it means unable to balance emotions... . That means they do love, ferociously... . And that is why we find them so appealing, because in the beginning they both love and idealize us with everything they got. No restraints... . And that makes us feel all alive. And we get all caught up and addicted to that fairy tale epic love affair... .

The only problem is, the reason they love with such ferociousness is because of their inability to balance emotions... . That is they love too much... . And part of their disorder is also the fact that they just can't sustain it... .

And part of our "disorder" is we don't want to believe it was all too good to be true... .

Oh God, the fairy tale epic love affair is so true.  I thought i could write best-selling romance novels off of our first few months.  And then the blackness.

I learned to accept the cycling, i learned to wait for the times my prince charming would return.  I realized, when he broke up with me for the last time, and signed the divorce papers, that i was in love with the epic story, 'the triumph of love', and now it never would.

 

I still love the man, deeply, permanently, life-time to life time you never wear it out.  The man the chickadees in the garden sang to, and the cats would cuddle up to. The man who was tortured over his shortcomings.  Then, the beast would emerge, and i would cringe, hide, and wait for it to pass. The beast was so horrible, i have trouble remembering the extent of the abuse. I became thick skinned.  I became numb. I became schizoid, loving half the man, and trying desperately to find some source of healing for his torment; it was easy to love him because i knew that he was ill, and his torment was part of his pathology, and my love was big enough.  Til i got ill, and needed some of that big love back.

I remember reading in his diary about how he would 'have to tell me when he was faced', so i would know not to ask him to drive me to the hospital.  How he didn't think he could live with the old lady.  How he'd like an alchoholic drug addict to hit, just for awhile, not for keeps.  How i wasn't as pretty as his other gf's.  How i neglected him, abandoned him, and abused him.

I still love the man. I have for the past ten years.  It shows no sign of letting up. I have great compassion for his struggles, and i watch him try to come to terms with his drive for freedom at any cost. But maybe it's a reflection in the mirror.  Maybe i'm love, and he was damn lucky to have me when he did.

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« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2013, 09:34:36 AM »

Can they love?

  Maybe i'm love, and he was damn lucky to have me when he did.

Very good point!  Mine was very lucky to have me and my family in her life... . We all have our "quirks," especially my family and I, but our love for my x was real... . not to sound conceded, but it is the most real and genuine love that she will ever find!

I have very much so moved on since then, but I still find myself thinking about her, especially in the morning when I first wake up? This tends to come and go, but as I said, it was genuine and it was real... .

Reminds me of when the x's father passed away in the hospital.  One of her best friends said to her, "wow, you've finally found a good one!" (referring to me and the fact that I was there by her side every second of his death... . )

I have to remind myself of that often because it helps me to know that I did the right thing with her.  I treated her right.  I more than did my fair share of the hurt, but not to try and excuse it, it was in response to her coldness and lack of reciprocation in the r/s!

All you can do is remind yourself that you did the best you could with what you had to work with... . that's all any of us have to go on!

MCC
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Holliday

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« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2013, 01:03:10 PM »

My codependent, addicted to drama and being idealized side still loves my dBPD(now ex)bf . This side is struggling. Sitting on my hands not to txt back wondering what "I didn't mean to do it" meant at 1am this morning...

I broke it off yesterday, after recycle #4.

Truth is as mentioned, the person I left yesterday is not the man I fell in love with. That man never existed in reality - he existed in my head. I am a fixer of others, and since he paid me in immense adoration I went right on fixing and managing and coping with him - at the expense of me...

Today as I grieve the 'what could have beens' and the 'if onlys'... I'm replaying something a friend asked me as I turmoiled over ending it again:

Would I EVER have fallen for this man, if he never had the intense, emotional, dramatic BPD behaviours - in the first place?

Answer is: No. Probably not. Couple of dates maybe, but we're no match.

What an eye opener... I'm still grieving, but I'm also not used to being on my own two feet without taking care of someone else. Unless I go NC, I will cycle back in - bc I AM an active participant in this pain...
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seeking balance
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« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2013, 01:50:43 PM »

Great thread!

I love my ex and likely always will (my definition of love to follow)- but that does not mean in any way shape or form that I want that person in my life.

I was "in love" with the dream - perfect house, family, friends, longevity, shared values - we had the same dream, although I was the only one capable of sustaining the dream.

Scott Peck has the best explanation on love that I have seen and I believe.  My paraphrasing is below, but you can find the details in The Road Less Traveled.

Love - as an emotion or being "in love" is easy... . takes no thought.  It is chemical & physical and requires no effort whatsoever.  We can all be sexually attracted to someone and let that lead to what we think are loving feelings, but it is based in the chemical.  This is necessary part of life, but it is not sustainable and if a relationship or happiness is based in this alone, it will have both parties looking outside of the relationship when the natural chemical high wears off.

Deep Love - as a verb, acting loving in the absence of feeling is real and sustaining.  To love fully means putting someone else's spiritual and emotional well-being as important as your own (not in a codependent way). 

Love as a verb could be as simple as to leave a "thank you" note to your spouse for emptying the dishwasher or NOT overtly flirting with someone else even if your partner has been distant for months... . It is mindful and conscious and respectful in action.

In living my life now with this in mind, I see loving actions may even be not having a relationship with someone we are attracted to but fundamentally know we are not compatible with... . it may be letting go.



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Scout99
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« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2013, 01:59:37 PM »

Great thread!

I love my ex and likely always will (my definition of love to follow)- but that does not mean in any way shape or form that I want that person in my life.

I was "in love" with the dream - perfect house, family, friends, longevity, shared values - we had the same dream, although I was the only one capable of sustaining the dream.

Scott Peck has the best explanation on love that I have seen and I believe.  My paraphrasing is below, but you can find the details in The Road Less Traveled.

Love - as an emotion or being "in love" is easy... . takes no thought.  It is chemical & physical and requires no effort whatsoever.  We can all be sexually attracted to someone and let that lead to what we think are loving feelings, but it is based in the chemical.  This is necessary part of life, but it is not sustainable and if a relationship or happiness is based in this alone, it will have both parties looking outside of the relationship when the natural chemical high wears off.

Deep Love - as a verb, acting loving in the absence of feeling is real and sustaining.  To love fully means putting someone else's spiritual and emotional well-being as important as your own (not in a codependent way). 

Love as a verb could be as simple as to leave a "thank you" note to your spouse for emptying the dishwasher or NOT overtly flirting with someone else even if your partner has been distant for months... . It is mindful and conscious and respectful in action.

In living my life now with this in mind, I see loving actions may even be not having a relationship with someone we are attracted to but fundamentally know we are not compatible with... . it may be letting go.

I agree with you fully on this!

Thank you for this post, seeking balance!

Best Wishes

Scout99
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« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2013, 07:13:52 PM »

Iaelle,

You just described my r/s to my exBPDh for 28 yrs to a Tee...



"I believe that they are on a constant and never ending search for someone to idealize, and do not have the ability to have a deep and committed relationship.  I did not say that they do not want to have one, but that they are unable to.  They can not sustain their emotions and therefore they can not sustain their love for you.  New or recycled relationships give them the chance to play out their CORE script again... . which will always end in abandonment.  It is a bit like watching the same movie over and over hoping that the ending will change, but knowing that as you have seen the movie a million times it will end no differently.

As the idealization faded from your relationship, they realized that you would not be the person to change the ending for them, not realizing that it is only themselves who can change that.  You get the blame for not being something that you have no ability to be.  The movie then stops, the curtains are dropped, the lights come on, and you are sent straight for the exit sign.

You were a play through... . you were not the first and not the last.  They cant help it, they are mentally ill.""


Actually, when I finally stood up for myself and stopped taking the abuse lying down, then the show changed. 

After a few failed attempts to leave him and this last one 7 mos ago finally being the last, he realizes that I am not just going to accept abuse as the norm again and he has to change.

So now the love I thought I felt doesn't matter at this point.  The only thing that really matters is the love I have for myself and how much that has waned over the years.  I still care about him and yes, that void of drama or excitement is hard to compare to but I can always go stick my finger in a light socket I guess...

I hope I never need drama that bad.  More T for me indeed.

Thanks so much for such an awesome thread...   Everyone... Your heartfelt comments are so encouraging! 













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« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2013, 07:41:49 PM »

Excerpt
Yes ... . and I suspect I always will be.But the sad thing is that he cannot love me back.He has shown this on so many occasions.It's sad .

Yes exactly!... . right down to every word
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« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2013, 08:58:50 PM »

ive been thinking over my own post here, im now sure i do still love her kids ive rasied and and the family we had.

i still pray to GOD she will get help and we can rebuild a better life together.
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« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2013, 09:19:23 PM »

Makes sense... . my movie had popcorn with hot oil spilled all over me and I stepped in some gum... at the very least. Smiling (click to insert in post)

and my feet kept sticking to the floor and some little kid behind me kept kicking the back of my chair? and it was one of the "Twilight Saga" sequels, so imagine that hell?

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

MCC
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« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2013, 09:22:28 PM »

 Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2013, 10:38:41 PM »

There are a number of different types or levels of love to me. There is the love I might have for a good neighbor, the love I have for a pet, the love I have for a close friend, the love I have for a family member, and the love I have for my life partner (romantic love).

Did I love my BPDex? Yes, I can say unashamedly that I was deeply and romantically in love with her. Even with all the problems we had, I did love her. Do I still love her? The answer is that I still love her but not romantically. I love her in a nonattached way, caring about her and wishing her the best and that she come to no harm, understanding that she was and will always be special to me as a person I truly loved romantically, but such that we are no longer together and attached. I feel that way about of any of the gf's that I've been seriously in love with, meaning that I always cherish the good times and the hopes and dreams we once had, but I acknowledge that those romantic relationships and the romantic love we had have reached an eNPDoint.

Maybe I'm not the norm as after breaking up with a serious gf I've always been haunted by the feeling of "what if" and the dreams we/I had of spending the rest of our lives together. I must be a hopeless romantic. Breaking up with my BPDex added another layer of feeling bad that I couldn't save such a wounded person from herself.
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« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2013, 02:00:55 AM »

good thread here, with some good thoughts.

So, a couple of days ago I posted here, saying that I wasn't still in love with my uBPD-ex. Well, I've been doing a little thinking about this. I did love her and I do love her. I've maintained NC with her for the past month and she's still texting and calling me every couple of days. I guess I've had a difficult time fully believing that I could still love her even though I'm sticking with NC. It's difficult to say that I love someone that I plan to possibly never talk to again. But no, beneath the ugly stuff surfacing from this relationship detox, I do actually care for her - I do want her to be safe and get well. I just also want her to see how difficult she was as a girlfriend. Ugghh... this is such a challenging question.

Thanks for posing such a good one.

-deRetour
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laelle
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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2013, 02:32:27 AM »

Great thread!

I love my ex and likely always will (my definition of love to follow)- but that does not mean in any way shape or form that I want that person in my life.

I was "in love" with the dream - perfect house, family, friends, longevity, shared values - we had the same dream, although I was the only one capable of sustaining the dream.

Scott Peck has the best explanation on love that I have seen and I believe.  My paraphrasing is below, but you can find the details in The Road Less Traveled.

Love - as an emotion or being "in love" is easy... . takes no thought.  It is chemical & physical and requires no effort whatsoever.  We can all be sexually attracted to someone and let that lead to what we think are loving feelings, but it is based in the chemical.  This is necessary part of life, but it is not sustainable and if a relationship or happiness is based in this alone, it will have both parties looking outside of the relationship when the natural chemical high wears off.

Deep Love - as a verb, acting loving in the absence of feeling is real and sustaining.  To love fully means putting someone else's spiritual and emotional well-being as important as your own (not in a codependent way).  

Love as a verb could be as simple as to leave a "thank you" note to your spouse for emptying the dishwasher or NOT overtly flirting with someone else even if your partner has been distant for months... . It is mindful and conscious and respectful in action.

In living my life now with this in mind, I see loving actions may even be not having a relationship with someone we are attracted to but fundamentally know we are not compatible with... . it may be letting go.


Thank you Seeking Balance... .  I know for myself, experiencing and then leaving my relationship left me with being insecure about my feelings concerning anything really.

If what was so fake seemed so real, how do I gauge truth now?  Your post really helped me to get my head around the facts of love vs feelings... .

It is perfectly normal to not always feel the love that we have for someone, but the love is still there through commitment, support and respect.  My ex could not sustain the feeling of love when put to the test through the commitment, support and respect. (the fulfilling of the declaration of love)  I, however, passed that test, and it is something that I can be proud of.

 Laelle
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clairedair
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« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2013, 03:07:56 AM »

I am re-reading James Hollis' "The Eden Project: In search of the Magical Other".  It's based on Jungian psychology (and I get a bit lost at times!) and has some interesting perspectives on our search for the 'Magical Other' to heal our wounds.  First time I read it, I could see my exH everywhere - lots written about projection/control etc.  There's even mention of the 'borderline personality' - "These sad souls live hellish lives... . must compulsively idealize each new partner, and yet suffer the inevitable recurrence of loss."

This time I am seeing myself in the pages.  I've reminded my ex more than once that he has not been out of a relationship for more than a couple of months since he was a teenager.  Now I can see that whilst I am someone who does not need to be in a relationship (and had prided myself on that), I cannot remember a time when I was not either in love or thinking about someone - not always positively e.g. there have been times in recent years when I've not been with ex, have been angry with him but he has dominated my thoughts so in a sense I am still in a relationship even when separated. 

Maybe I'm addicted to being in love or feeling some sort of attachment or dreaming about a connection.  I'm not as mature as I thought I was.

"The seductive lure of romantic love, which so dominates Western culture, hooks us ... . We fall in love with Love, and lose the growth which soul demands." 

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