Second Time Around

[Mark2430]

Well she resurfaced about a month ago, and we have been talking and spending time together, she has apologized for being a crazy chic in the past and for how mean she was... . And how it was all her fault, And for the last month things have been great, not one argument which the first time around it was a common thing to try to bait me into an argument, she almost has me wondering if I misread her the first time and maybe she isn't BPD... . Anyone have a different experience the second time around... . Or is this just the calm before the eventual storm,

[Inside]

Mark…, I’m no expert, but have been recycled enough to have noticed a few changes.  What I’ve noted most is how we never quite get as close as before.  Sex still works, and remains exploratory, but things like sharing time, family, friends or adventures seem very limited, if at all. 

With regard to her apologizing, I’ve experienced that too… though never instantaneous, usually taking a few days for her to build up the courage.  It’s sincere, but hasn’t proven she wouldn’t offend again …and in a way, maybe that’s why she’s never lets me as close, she knows she can’t do it?

So, by avoiding topics and situations that have triggered past problems, it’s really necked down the ‘safe places’ we still have.  What’s also weird is how she’s no doubt painted me black to her family and friends, and though she’s ‘kept us apart’ after various recycles, I recently spent ‘quality time’ with her Family.  Outcome?  …I’m still the decent guy they remember ... . as they likely begin to doubt the ‘stories’ she’s told about me. 

See if yours hasn’t necked down your world some.  I’ve read that they’ve a constant feeling of ‘guilt,’ though have never figured that out... .   Is it because of the crazy and hurtful things they’ve said and done... ?  I’ve not likely added much here – but hopefully a start

[Mark2430]

Your response was helpful, it's definitely confusing, this time around she took me to introduce me to her family and friends, according to her best friend she hasn't brought a guy home since her last boyfriend who passed away in an accident over 3 years ago, we had some conversations, and in the past I would have avoided for fear of setting her off but, it went really well, I also handle things differently with her so maybe that's part of it as well or maybe I have misread everything from the begining, I was suprised by the realization that she was really acting crazy the first time... . I don't know... . I still have my guard up a little, like I almost expect it to all fall apart

[Validation78]

Hi Marc!

I hate to be a naysayer, however, if she is a pwBPD, and isn't getting proper therapy, and you don't do anything different via communication skills than before, there's a very good chance that things will eventually be what they were before. The realization of how she behaved before is great, and it doesn't mean that it won't happen again. If you're going to give it another try, don't miss this opportunity (time) to beef up on communication skills that we talk about in The Lessons on The Staying Board.

Best Wishes,

Val78

[Aussie0zborn]

I'm going to be a naysayer too. Mine behaved herself the second time around - for a whole year in fact. But then guess what?

She couldnt keep it up unless I appeased all her insecurities, frivolous wishes, demands, irrepsonsible spending, flirting, rages and a near assault. If they have BPD they will always have BPD.

Learn all the coping strategies in 'The Learning Center' here, use them daily and review them at least monthly so that you dont get worn down and forget them as I did. Don't ever think you're over it. If you want to be with her be prepared to do the work. Good luck.

[Mark2430]

Thanks for the responses, my gut tells me it's just a matter of time, I ignored my gut the first time for too long before I finally said enough is enough and walked, granted we were only together a short time, i think I want to see something that really isn there, I mean I know she has some great qualities but the underlying problems are t going away, I feel like they are just in hibernation mode... . I think I need to take a step back and really evaluate whether this is all worth it. Thanks again : )

[Relentless]

How long was she away from you? How did it e d the first time? I hope you're doing well.

[Lao Tzu]

***Arms flailing wildly***  ":)anger!, Will Robinson, Danger!

Crazy -- even if not BPD crazy -- doesn't just magically go away.  If I heard medication, therapy, etc. it might be a bit more believable.  But especially since you are also convinced how you treat her is different so that might be a big part of why the problem is gone -- i.e., it was kind of your fault then, I would guess this is a well executed mind-f**k, a BPD specialty.  Of course, these folks live in the gray space of what is possible, rather than what is real, don't they?  Think about it, we believe their often ridiculous lies because they just might be true.  Your gut instinct just might be wrong.  People on this site just might be over-reacting due to their ignorance of the earnestness in her eyes, and of course the fact that they have all been badly burned.  This might just be different. Listen to the robot, Will Robinson.

LT 

[frustrated b/f]

I haven't read all the responses however, I've been down this road many many times. I would justify it by how easily it seemed I could fall in love with her again. After each recycle, it was beginning to get harder and harder to fall back in love with her because I knew the inevitable was coming.

This last time around, it just isn't there anymore, and I don't think it'll ever return to what it was, because I know as soon as I feel comfortable, loving, and bonded, the craziness will start up again

[Mark2430]

Frustrated, Lao and Relentless thanks for the responses, we saw each other for a out two months before I said enough, I saw the red flags and called her on them early and she got defensive so it was no contact for 3 1/2 months and we have been seeing each other a month now without any drama, however when I say I act differently before I felt like I was walking on egg shells around her, now if she makes a comment I just respond with "yeah that sounds like me"  I'm not mean but I sure don't bite my tongue and she knows it so the comments have gotten less and less, ill give ya an example we were at a bar and she introduced me to some of her friends who I started talking with and about 5 minutes go by and she tells me to give her the keys to the car because I'm acting cocky ... . I just looked at her nodded my head handed her the keys and said "Yup that totally sounds like me" and sat down next to her and ordered a beer... . well she didnt leave and we had a great rest of the evening... . I don't think she realizes how good my memory is I don't forget much, and though it's been alot better this time around, there is a part of that doesn't trust her so I don't see how this can work long term... . And I don't have the feelings that I had for her the first time I think because of the underlying issues that have left my guard up,

[Relentless]

Well I wish you the very best. After 2 weeks NC (from me, 6 weeks silent treatment from her) I sent an email being honest about how bad she treated me. I kept it professionally nice while maintaining integrity. I ended it on a really positive note.

Got a call from police asking me to stop. Her dad called and said I was harassing her. Who knows what she told him. He texted me and said STOP CONTACTING US. Soo ya. I'm heart broken. She will likely never come back, and I never had a bad intention. And only meant to help.

I hope it works for you... . I wish mine would come back someday. But doubtful.

Good luck.

[blurry]

This is what I mean about their past behavior building up resentment in me, now I'm hypersensitive to little things that may not of been an issue before the insanity started, or in past relationships where I was secure.

Mark id give it a go like you are, but under no circumstances, none whatsoever, make yourself vulnerable to her. Keep your routine and your own well- being intact. I've lost too much, too many times and I know that's true. Actually, it applies to any relationship. Seems like you have things in good perspective, unlike myself in the past.

[blurry]

Relentless, not to give you false hope, but assuming your pwBPD truely is BPD, recycling is one of the biggest indicators of the whole disorder. My breakups with mine have gotten so ugly its beyond my comprehension, and she always comes back.

What you do in the meantime? Work on improving yourself, that's only common sense, regardless if she comes back or not, and make yourself less dependant/ vulnerable to her for when/if she does come back. That's where I'm at anyway, cause my brain is telling me to say no if she comes back begging as usual, but I can't trust my own heart to say no.

[pallavirajsinghani]

Could be that she is in the idealization phase again.  You are again on a pedestal. 

[Mark2430]

Blurry I totally agree, it's funny cuz everything had been going great until last night we had a argument I wasn't going to take it, caught her in a lie, told her she had a chance to be truthful or I was out the door, she grabbed me and tried blocking me from leaving I asked again for just the truth, she continued the lie, so I left, needless to say my phone blew up all night and I finally picked up and she apologized and admitted to lying to me and it wasnt that big a deal really in the first place, so this morning she tells me "do you realize how out of line you were last night" ... . ... . I was out of line calling her out on her lie, I love how they twist stuff, however I will say the rest of the day has been great so slow and easy with my self respect in tact, I she tries to violate it she knows ill walk ... . And I think that's mellowed her a bit

[eeyore]

Your question was did you misread her.  Maybe but you WILL definitely know the answer soon.  Since you asked about experiences, here is mine.

I've been recycled several times.  Each time was veiled in deception to wear my boundaries down to nothing. 

When I met him I wanted to be married.  I was ok with meeting a man with children and was ok with perhaps having my own.  I attended Church weekly and considered myself faithful and spiritual.   

Incident 1 (Year 1)

At first it was during dating.  I would say I wanted to be in a healthy relationship and I'd say I want to step away.  I think you are a nice guy but maybe not ready for a real commitment.  Then would come the pursuit.  Everything I needed was said and done. 

Incident 2 (Year 2)

After our first year of dating he wanted to live together.  However, we both owned our own homes.  I expressed all my concerns and was met with reasonable answers or solutions. Mostly told we are both mature adults and we have common philosophies so we would be able to work out our differences.  I put mine on the market and it sold in 4 months.  I almost reconsidered and didn't sell as something seemed so scarey to me.  Then he said I'll never be able to commit to a real relationship if I can't live with the person first.  So I sold my home even though right before he said don't sell your house if you are so concerned.  But because he said we couldn't be in a committed ie marriage unless we lived together first I went ahead and went through with it.  I moved in with him and he was miserable.  Didn't help, he policed the doors as no door could be left open.  Mind you it's hard to open and close doors when you are carrying things, got upset if the door got slammed, etc.  Three days after moving in he said I needed to move out.  I moved out and rented something short term as I was in total disbelief.  Most of my things went into storage at the time.  I lived in my own home for 10 years before meeting him.  It was fully furnished and had a very large 2 car garage.   Short term I had the things I needed. 

Incident 3 (Year 3)

Got back together and worked out many of the problems with him saying he had made mistakes.  Many Many blissful times.  Got engaged in front of my parents and 30 friends.  About a month later he took back the ring and asked me to move out yet again.  Said we don't belong together.  Stuff still in storage

Incident 4 (Year 6)

More recently.  Got back together, got the ring back, lived together another three years. My stuff was still in storage and I purchased more stuff along the way as it was difficult to sort through boxes stacked on boxes.  We were getting along fine.  Normal Ups and Downs I thought.  One of our happiest weekends my godparents celebrate their 50th anniversary.  We go to the reception.  Talk about our future.  Generally peaceful and content.  I finally feel like our lives are meshing together and the discussions about growing old together seem meaningful.  Same weekend everything turns south and three weeks later I'm moving out yet again. Fortunately in year 5 I purchased a short sale and took all my stuff out of storage so I have a home today.  It was costing me the same to store my stuff as my mortgage and after 3 to 4 years of storing stuff I decided I'd rather own than keep paying for storage. 

So now I find I have spent 6 years trying to make a relationship work.  As of yesterday he was still trying to convince me that my thinking was wrong.  That my needs are unreasonable.  My needs are I want to be in a committed relationship where the man cleaves with his woman.  Where both people help each other with the daily life challenges.  Where two people work together and building their lives together.  I've just determined he doesn't have the ability to be the other half of that equation.  I know I can do my part as a woman.  I'm tired of the false hope I get for period of time only to have it whittled away so that I get less and less and learn to be happy with the crumbs of good times I do get. 

So did I know the first time I should RUN... . Yes I did but then I second guessed myself.  Did I know the second time I should RUN, Yes I did but then I second guessed myself.  After 6 years he's still to this day trying to get me to second guess myself.  This time I am RUNNING!  He's trying to get me back and just for a mere moment of nice times but he'll never get married, never be a family man, and NEVER be there for me when I need someone.  And he thinks I'll accept that because I have allowed it for the last 6 years.  Things don't change if you keep doing the same thing.  I've decided it's time for me to do something different and that means really moving on because after 6 years I don't want any more of the same.  The first times I would cry and grieve.  This time I can't even shed a tear.  I'm all cried out of tears.  I'm at peace and generally every day I wake up in peace---I don't have to live with the fear of a rage or being controlled.  I've never felt more at peace. 

[blurry]

Eeyore, wow, I really feel for you. Many similarities here except id say your 6 years was compounded into a year for me. We never had any long stretches without a breakup. I really know the whole push/pull thing with the moving in/out ect.

I just moved 9 times this past year over my pwBPD. Looking for my 6th job since then. My moves aren't in the same area (started long distance) and its been absolutely shocking that I let someone put me through this.

What kind of adult asks you to move in with them from almost 100 miles away, you quit your job, lose your place, and then a week latet says they need space and asks you to move out? Or a month later breaks up with you for basically no reason? You think after the sacrifice you made, the one they begged you to make, it would give an intelligent adult extra incentive to think something like that through first. Im not suggesting anyone cant make a mistake, but the decision is always made instantly a day after she was so in love. Its so bizaare to me I still can't believe what I just went through the past year.

Anyway, hadnt noticed the similarities in our stories before, I feel for you.

[eeyore]

Anyway, hadnt noticed the similarities in our stories before, I feel for you.

I was on hiatus for the last 3 years.  So you wouldn't have known.  It's all good.  I take responsibility for my life.  I have culpability.  Making the changes now and I feel good about me.  I hope you are healing from your experiences.  :-)

[Ironmanrises]

***Arms flailing wildly***  ":)anger!, Will Robinson, Danger!

Great warning sign, Lao.

My exUBPDgf left me twice.

I let her back into my life second time around knowing she has BPD.

I tried to be more understanding.

Made no difference.

Once she was triggered... .

The other side began to appear.

Just like the first time.

Her behavior towards me... .

Far more vicious.

No matter how much i knew about BPD... .

No matter that i knew the inevitable outcome... .

She left regardless.

Mark,

We cannot protect you.

She will hurt you.

That other side will reappear again.

Round and round.

[Mark2430]

So after I walked out on her the other night, she tells me today that she feels like when we argued that she doesn't like the feeling of thinking that it's over and I'm walking away just because we argue... .I told her "oh well" she also told me she doesn't want to date anyone else and I told her that based on the first time around my guard was up with her, and she said she doesn't blame me at all, that she deserves that due to the way she acted, I am ok with everything, at the moment she seems pretty stable but I'm also realistic that people with this disorder are difficult for long term relationships, I have learned never to argue, when the BS starts just smile and say ok chat with ya later then walk out dont turn around, and don't answer the calls for a day or two at least! You just have to laugh it off when they are flipping out on you, kind of give them that James Bond smirk and just stare at them, don't respond to the madness, and walk away... .It's worked for me so far : ) ,

[eeyore]

Is that the kind of relationship you want?

[Mark2430]

Don't you think there are people out their who have successful relationships with people with BPD ? I know this site is dedicated to those of us trying to figure out how to or determine whether or not to walk away... .But from my experience so far and yes it's limited to just dating, we have had one argument in over a month, everything else has been amazing, I have been in plenty of relationships where my other half wasnt BPD and we argued or disagreed more, I am ok with this not working out but I just think that the validation thing doesn't work, the funny thing is she has point blank told me that it works because I know how to handle her... .I have read alot about validating their feelings and when I tried that early on I got steamrolled, this time around I just don't respond at all or walk away and the behavior is almost non existent... .I'm not saying I have the answers here, I think there is a range of severity of BPD especially if its accompanied by Another disorder, I'm just saying so far it has been working well for me,

[eeyore]

Yes and you will find many of those people on the Staying board.  They have very good insight and can offer other advice if you seek it.  Steph and her husband separated for a time and I believe after they both underwent therapy they have been consistently successful.