BPD's grieving the relationship in reverse

[DetroitDame]

Well, from the posts I have read, it appears that once this "grieving in reverse" starts to happen the pwBPD will definitely break the NC.  I want to encourage our members to remain strong should the pwBPD attempt to recycle.  Also, should members decide to reconcile, I recommend they lay some ground rules to protect themselves from repeated hurt and pain. 

[Learning_curve74]

Well, from the posts I have read, it appears that once this "grieving in reverse" starts to happen the pwBPD will definitely break the NC. Also, should members decide to reconcile, I recommend they lay some ground rules to protect themselves from repeated hurt and pain.  

Just like all people act and think the same, I think we have to be careful to avoid believing all pwBPD act and think the same. Yes, there is a chance that our BPDexes may try to contact us, but not all contact from them is a recycling attempt. Like it's been mentioned earlier, sometimes they just want to know that you don't hate them and that's the end. Read the boards and you'll find many stories about a BPDex texting, "hope you are ok/i love you/miss you" (or some variation) and after the non replies, then it's silence again. Or sometimes the pwBPD does it and gets back together with the non. None of us have a crystal ball to tell the future.

The only "ground rule" that will protect the non from repeated hurt and pain is to realize the pwBPD is most likely going to repeat the same behavior as they did previously during the first time around. If you go into a recycle realizing they will beat you up, lie, and cheat, and you are 100% okay with that, then you won't be hurt. If this is the case, you would seem like either a masochist or sociopathic user to me tho.  

If anybody here is thinking their BPDex is going to "change", then I urge you to look at the logo at the very top left of the screen that says "bpdfamily.com". Yes, everybody can change, but to believe that a pwBPD who has lived their entire life using these dysfunctional coping strategies will be "normal" the next time you reconnect is more wishful thinking than facing the facts. The fact is that a pwBPD has a very long and hard road in front of them to change their ingrained responses and behaviors. It's like spending your whole life as a lefty and then suddenly trying to become a righty, it just isn't going to happen overnight, and you probably have very little desire to change that anyhow because you've lived your entire life as a lefty and don't see anything wrong with that... .

Just because the pwBPD feels bad later doesn't mean we have to acknowledge it much less reconnect with them. Be kind to yourself and spend time on your own well being. When we spend a lot of time ruminating about somebody else, it takes away the time and energy we need to be spending on ourselves.  

[DetroitDame]

Well, from the posts I have read, it appears that once this "grieving in reverse" starts to happen the pwBPD will definitely break the NC. Also, should members decide to reconcile, I recommend they lay some ground rules to protect themselves from repeated hurt and pain.  

Just like all people act and think the same, I think we have to be careful to avoid believing all pwBPD act and think the same. Yes, there is a chance that our BPDexes may try to contact us, but not all contact from them is a recycling attempt. Like it's been mentioned earlier, sometimes they just want to know that you don't hate them and that's the end. Read the boards and you'll find many stories about a BPDex texting, "hope you are ok/i love you/miss you" (or some variation) and after the non replies, then it's silence again. Or sometimes the pwBPD does it and gets back together with the non. None of us have a crystal ball to tell the future.

The only "ground rule" that will protect the non from repeated hurt and pain is to realize the pwBPD is most likely going to repeat the same behavior as they did previously during the first time around. If you go into a recycle realizing they will beat you up, lie, and cheat, and you are 100% okay with that, then you won't be hurt. If this is the case, you would seem like either a masochist or sociopathic user to me tho.  

If anybody here is thinking their BPDex is going to "change", then I urge you to look at the logo at the very top left of the screen that says "bpdfamily.com". Yes, everybody can change, but to believe that a pwBPD who has lived their entire life using these dysfunctional coping strategies will be "normal" the next time you reconnect is more wishful thinking than facing the facts. The fact is that a pwBPD has a very long and hard road in front of them to change their ingrained responses and behaviors. It's like spending your whole life as a lefty and then suddenly trying to become a righty, it just isn't going to happen overnight, and you probably have very little desire to change that anyhow because you've lived your entire life as a lefty and don't see anything wrong with that... .

Just because the pwBPD feels bad later doesn't mean we have to acknowledge it much less reconnect with them. Be kind to yourself and spend time on your own well being. When we spend a lot of time ruminating about somebody else, it takes away the time and energy we need to be spending on ourselves.  

Great advice, thanks!

[Ritchie53]

I don't think grieve is the right word When a pwBPD leaves a relationship and starts the idealization process all over again, it's all about them avoiding the hurt and destruction they have caused there ex. They have been demonizing the ex for a while and when they finally make there move he is already black and they are justifycing there actions to themselves by painting him black.

Later on when the relationship with the new guy falls apart the pwBPD does not grieve there ex. rather they begin to have feelings of abandonment. So they naturally fall back and the comforting feelings of there last ex and typically recycle. Remember they are incapable of self criticism or seeing the harm they have cause.  It's all about them feeling good about themselves and denying the truth of there selfish actions.

I strongly believe that the driving force of whether they recycle or not depends on the emotional attachment they had with there ex. If it was a short term relationship with little validation then they don't. If there were deep bonds and relationship was long term, then they are almost certain to recycle.

Finally, the time frame it takes with the new guy is dependent on a plethora of factors. For example if the BPD  has substance abuse problems and the new guy is an enabler then the relationship may be longer term. The same can be true if she is financially giving to him (meaning he is financially dependent on her) in which case he may be more inclined to validate her feelings and put up with more of her BS longer. But make no mistake there is a time in the not too distant future where it will fall apart and she will recycle

Very interesting comments, I am 7 months out of a 20 month relationship - apart from one horrible message around 5 months ago I have heard absolutely nothing, although I am working through the trauma very well, her final extinction burst indicated that she hated me more than anything ever before in her life, therefore I feel the chances of a reach out are virtually non existent. Has anyone ever been completely discarded only to get a reconnection out of the blue sometime down the line? One thing is certain with mine, she still talked about exes from many years ago in a bad way but to my knowledge had never reached out to them.

[Reforming]

I think confusedhubby is right.

Not all BPDs are the same but thinking of them grieving us in way that we either understand or would do ourselves is flawed.

It's a case of us trying to make sense of their behaviour and our relationships with them through the lens of our own logic and feelings.

BPD is profound disorder - you cannot make sense of it.

That's one of the things that kept many of us in these relationships for so long.

Wishful thinking that if we could unlock the puzzle we could make things right.

It's a fantasy. The belief that someone with BPD can think or feel like us is not just futile - it keeps you attached.

I think it's closer to the truth to say that BPDs don't like the idea that we have detached because it's triggers feelings of abandonment and shame

And when they're vulnerable and their relationship with the replacement breaks down they experience intense feelings of abandonment and shame.

So they look for an alternative source of a validation etc and try to reconnect.

Depending on their circumstances these recycles are generally brief, a momentary holding operation until a better and fresh source of supply is available.

Ultimately when you close all the doors and switch off the music it's about us and our choices.

It always was

And if deep in your heart you're still thinking or hoping for a recycle then you haven't really detached and you're vulnerable.

Why would you want someone who treated you with cruelty and contempt, someone who did you real harm back in your life?

If you saw a close friend inviting someone who abused them back into their lives what would you say to them?

The real challenge is to detach enough to focus on yourself. Get help to identify the issues that drew you and kept you in a relationship that was so destructive and unhealthy.

Begin to tackle them

If you do that work you'll lose the secret yearning to reconnect to something which was never real and never what you believed or hope it could be.

Then if and when they try to get back in touch you have the healthy self awareness to reject or ignore them.

[sirensong65]

jippolito1969; I second your post.  You almost mirror exactly where I am.  Though it hurts to know he is with someone else and seemingly happy and has no remorse or sadness for our demise, I choose to grieve now and NOT throw myself into another relationship anytime soon.

I too worry that somehow, this new person in his life will be the "ticket", will be all that I was not, and they will ride happily into the sunset.  That is a haunting thought, goven, like you, I never tried harder with anyone else, nor have I ever given unconditionally of myself like I did with this person, and in the end, it STILL wasn't good enough... he jumped ship, changed train cars, etc.

Make the self reflection a little painful, right?  I know I sometime WISH I could be more like him and just throw myself mind, body and soul into another to take MY mind off how badly this hurts.  But, I am no where near ready for anything with anyone.  And that isn't me anyway, damn it! !

I too, hope one day I can work through this and meet someone with whom I can give all that I did in this relationship, and it will not only be appreciated, but reciprocated, IMAGINE THAT!  What a concept!

[Popcorn71]

I too worry that somehow, this new person in his life will be the "ticket", will be all that I was not, and they will ride happily into the sunset.  That is a haunting thought, goven, like you, I never tried harder with anyone else, nor have I ever given unconditionally of myself like I did with this person, and in the end, it STILL wasn't good enough... he jumped ship, changed train cars, etc.

Make the self reflection a little painful, right?  I know I sometime WISH I could be more like him and just throw myself mind, body and soul into another to take MY mind off how badly this hurts.  But, I am no where near ready for anything with anyone.  And that isn't me anyway, damn it! !

I too, hope one day I can work through this and meet someone with whom I can give all that I did in this relationship, and it will not only be appreciated, but reciprocated, IMAGINE THAT!  What a concept!

This is exactly how I feel.  It's holding me back and stopping me from getting over my exBPDh.  I just don't feel 'good enough' for anyone now.  He was certainly not an 'incredible catch' and even he didn't stay with me!  That has put me off a new relationship altogether.

[blissful_camper]

It's a delayed reaction to loss.  My ex quickly found a replacement to avoid dealing with his feelings. I agree that when things start to fall apart in the new r/s, they think about the loss of former partner(s) but it's more about what they lost, and is less about the person that they lost.  It seems to be rooted in what that former partner provided them and how well their needs were met by that former partner. 

My ex hadn't detached from any of his former partners.  Most of his curiosity revolved around what they were doing and whether they were happier without him.  His former partners were happier without him, and he resented that.  They had moved on developing healthy relationships, having children, and forming successful careers.  He was competitive with them even though he was no longer in their lives.  He seemed to truly wish that his former partners weren't doing well without him.   

I'm pretty sure that my ex attempted to recycle former partners but his efforts were unsuccessful. His former partners don't seem to want to go back to him.  He has too much shame after an r/s to actively pursue a former partner.  It's much easier for him to move on to a new target where he can enjoy the "high" of a new r/s and get the "full" validation he craves from a new partner. 

[coolioqq]

I can tell you from my experience that this has certainly been the case. After what she did to me, I went full NC - cold turkey way. I never did such a thing before, and I never would. But the experience left me no other option.

I can tell she felt the day before I went NC that I am, in fact, breaking it off. It's because she kept repeating after me the things I was saying in a "Are you telling me you are leaving me?" way. Her grieving the relationship did not start immediately. She first thought that I was just taking my time and space. Then she started getting worried, but kept her act together in the communication, which was not too difficult as it was not face-to-face. When she knew for sure I was sticking with NC, she freaked out... . Then she realized that I am not coming back, and told me that she is aware of that. But while she accepted the fault at beginning, she did move it into the "together" zone, and told me she'll leave me alone, but she hated my NC. She openly recognized my strength behind my decision because she did know how much I love her.

Well, she broke the promise and contacted me again when she found out that I was recovering and trying to move on (which I really didn't.) There was gas-lighting (questioning my love) and devaluation (labeling me as cruel) involved. I will most likely hear from her again as she is now openly desperate about recycling.

So, as you see, they do grieve the relationship backwards. And especially if they see that you are a strong and decisive person. It's a trigger for them, it seems, because they just can't do that. What I did (going full NC cold-turkey) would make a normal person just give up, grieve it right away for a while and forget me. Well, a normal person would not do what she did, in the first place, but that's another story. Not her, or shall I say not them... . They grieve when you make yourself unavailable to them. This is not strictly limited to pwBPD. All people with any kind of emotional damage or under-development (it happens to be most symptomatic to BPD folks) obsess over unavailable people. That's the whole thing behind "girls into bad-boys" and "guys into bad-girls" thing. They grieve and freak out once you treat them like dirt... .

That's why my dexBPDgf will most likely continue to contact me, each time with stronger devaluation as her grief gets stronger (not weaker as in nons.) I sure hope not, but that seems to be more of a rule than an exception.

[coolioqq]

We have split up before & I've been the usual jilted man trying to get her back. It never worked & always pushed her further away. I've realized that looking desperate = looking very unattractive!

A relationship councilor friend of mine always says "looking comfortable with a break up looks strong & strength is attractive".

This is at the core of why they grieve the relationship backwards, especially if you are NC without exception. They see it as sign of incredible strength (my dexBPDgf actually told me this in her desperate attempts to get me to talk to her). It's because they cannot fathom that strength. PwBPD simply don't have emotional capacity to be that strong. Splitting you black is only possible if they have an immediate alternative. If they don't, they'll keep pestering you, without exception. It's what's been going with my ex. After being openly in awe with my decisiveness around my NC and promising to leave me alone, she's back at the hint of me recovering and her perception that I am trying to move on. She made it sound as if she can't stand the idea that I am over her, questioning whether I loved her at all... . It's all backwards. An emotinally healthy person would (a) not do what she did and (b) move on after they saw that I don't want to talk... . Her? She continues with devaluation and trying to find reasons to hate me, through labeling and gas-lighting... . It's all a facade for what is really going on in her mind: she is only now grieving and falling in "love" with me. I say "love" because she does not even understand what that is. It's a sad state of mind, and it breaks my heart because I do love her. Her questioning that is stomping on my heart, but it's not really her. It's her condition. And with BPD, unfortunately, her condition is her... .

The moral of the story is that for our sanity, full NC and being strongly persistent in it will give you what you always wanted: their love, or at least what they think of as love. I will never respond to her again nor will recycle. I feel sorry for her feelings now as I would give everything up for her, if she only knew how to accept that. But, it is important that she learns a lesson in grief. The sad thing is that once a replacement lines up (if at all any time soon, because although she is pretty, she is not attractive), she will start the whole vicious cycle again... .

[GuiltHaunted]

I think we should be careful here to giving anyone false hope. Including myself - I'm only on the detachment board, because I am FORCED to detach (she broke up with me, and I still want her back).

My ex didn't recycle her previous BFs. So while it may be true, that some return, other may not. I am pretty sure, that I will NEVER hear from my ex again.

[corraline]

@guilthanted

I agree with you here.  Their behavior can be predictable at times and so unpredictable at others.

Mine told me he never goes back to ex's. He's not coming back to me. Im getting the odd nasty emails.

I've tried to make sense of them and have a fantasy going that he will come to his senses and send nice ones.  LOL

Really though, i need to shift my focus.  Sometimes I tell myself that this break and if its truly final is what is best for me.  With all that i am learning on here, i need to be more than grateful if I never hear again. I'm trying to trust this and see the blessing in disguise.  I cannot imagine what would be left of me if i ever went back and went thru this again.  There is just no more room for feeling worse than i do now.

[blissful_camper]

I think we should be careful here to giving anyone false hope.

Yes.   

There was life before the pwBPD, and there's a great life ahead without them.  Learn, heal, grow.  A friend told me shortly before I left my ex that I had outgrown him.  Yes I had, and I'm determined to continue on that path.  Being with him meant spiritual death.  They suck the life right out of you. 

[Ritchie53]

@guilthanted

I agree with you here.  Their behavior can be predictable at times and so unpredictable at others.

Mine told me he never goes back to ex's. He's not coming back to me. Im getting the odd nasty emails.

I've tried to make sense of them and have a fantasy going that he will come to his senses and send nice ones.  LOL

Really though, i need to shift my focus.  Sometimes I tell myself that this break and if its truly final is what is best for me.  With all that i am learning on here, i need to be more than grateful if I never hear again. I'm trying to trust this and see the blessing in disguise.  I cannot imagine what would be left of me if i ever went back and went thru this again.  There is just no more room for feeling worse than i do now.

Mine said a similar thing about her ex that she returned to and is deeply in love with. With regards grieving in reverse, I do believe I witnessed it first hand.

With mine apparently the ex cheated and left, when I first started dating her she said that she was out of a relationship no one else was around etc.

Now the timeline as I best remember it:-

1.5 months in to dating the ex returned briefly and she told me that he could give her what she wanted family etc, too early in the piece for me so I walked away, she pursued me for a week and then said she wanted to be with me.

Heard nothing about the ex for a while apart from how bad he was etc.

Fast forward 8 months and all of his items he bought for her had been sold on ebay etc.

3 months later devaluation begins and the comparison Triangulation starts.

4 months later, when she was convinced I was cheating she fired warning shots indicating she never took a cheat back.

Another 1.5 months later, he reconnects on facebook as his relationship had finished, she replied saying that she was working on her relationship and to leave her alone. As I was not jealous she took it that I did not love her - huge arguement that night.

The next couple of weeks sex was withheld and comments such as my ex didn't want to touch me towards the end started surfacing.

A week later she was back with him, new life, I was stalker, abusive, she hadn't been that happy in ages, all enablers cheering her on. And my gifts being sold openly on facebook. I obviously cut contact and blocked social media etc.

So timeline indicates that she grieved this in reverse as I saw it unfold before my eyes. I doubt she will grieve what we had in reverse as I am painted far blacker than he ever was. He was painted black but I am painted really black, plus by going strong no contact I have shown that I dont care - something indicates that the ex never went full no contact even when he was in another relationship.

[coolioqq]

I think we should be careful here to giving anyone false hope. Including myself - I'm only on the detachment board, because I am FORCED to detach (she broke up with me, and I still want her back).

My ex didn't recycle her previous BFs. So while it may be true, that some return, other may not. I am pretty sure, that I will NEVER hear from my ex again.

Sorry, I should have been very specific that I was the one that broke it off, and that has much weight on whether there is a chance of hearing back. Which is probably why she is still on my tail. I agree, every case is different and, if they broke it off they may or may not try to recycle. Either way, whoever broke it off and even if they try to recycle, I think nons set on leaving should try their hardest to detach and leave. I happen to be the one that broke it off, but it hurts the same way as if she would be the one to do it. Maybe even more because I am now the "cruel" one whose love is being questioned by her.

[coolioqq]

3 months later devaluation begins and the comparison Triangulation starts.

In my case comparison started during the 3rd or 4th date! She couldn't stop talking about him and I called her out on that. To which she responded that she was simply comparing me to him to decide what is right for her as she "lacked experience." Big  , but I swallowed it back then, the starry-eyed idiot that I was... . If I had the mind that I have now, I'd tell her to get lost and waste her own life, which she is doing anyway. I can imagine her right now, she is doing it to another guy but I am probably the point of comparison. She isn't very successful with finding the replacement yet. I'd know by now, because she is still sending me devaluing messages even though she promised to leave me alone... .