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Author Topic: Why do you think they are better after us?  (Read 10361 times)
eyvindr
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« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2013, 02:25:58 PM »

Oh, and Ironman --

You'd've been recruited had you not volunteered.

e.
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« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2013, 12:58:25 AM »

I don't think I'd call it hatred, but I definitely am aware that I want to feel like "I'm the winner... .you're the loser" - like IronManFalls' signature "Congratulations... .you lost me" but a bit more so.

Yeah for me, it's definitely hatred. I wasn't willing to admit that. I think it's safer for me to say "oh I wish people well, I don't want to be an angry bitter person" blah blah. That's the safe option. It's harder to admit that I have all these turbulent emotions-that I am emotionally intense... when I fall in love, I just fall deep so when I hate someone, it's also intense. It's not the idealization/devaluation of a borderline as I don't split people black for no apparent reason. I have worked on black and white thinking in CBT though (I've had depressive episodes).

but he was still sending "I love you... .our relationship is (present tense) so important to me, I've never stopped loving you" and making disparaging comments about "other people" finding him exciting, whatever, but it's only me who truly knows him.

This line (in bold) is a load of crap... just designed to hook you in.

I sent him an angry email telling him I will not permit him to continue actively trying to destroy me and he would never hear from me again. Multiple angry messages from him, so I blocked all those sources.

Is there any way you can get a new email address? I was once very angry with someone a few years ago and sent them a horrible email and it became all-out war. I learned from that and vowed never to go down that route again... it's just not worth it.

It's all very well saying that you blocked his email address but if you're anything like me, you'll quite possibly de-block him again just to see whether he's contacted you...

it just seems that every stage of his progress with her is a reaction to my increasing independence, my 'rejection' of his love.

Why would he want you to move on? He was getting a constant ego boost from stringing you along with "I only love you" whilst getting with other girls. Sorry to be blunt about it but seriously, this guy is toxic for you. It's about him being in control. He doesn't want you independent-he sounds like the type of guy who complains about how you're too "clingy" or criticizes you in devaluation phase but secretly loves all the attention. The lack of attention can be crippling for someone like that... being ignored is actually harder for them to take than an angry response so if you really want to hurt him back, just ignore him.

But I will be really happy when it ends. A friend is keeping an eye on it for me, and has agreed to tell me nothing at all except when it ends... .it will all be over by Christmas, as the saying goes, I reckon... .if he's defriending already as well as dictating her behaviour... .it's the push-pull-push-pull dance, isn't it?

Why bother try to keep an eye on it? He's going to do whatever he wants to anyways
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« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2013, 01:46:21 AM »

Thankyou, eyvindr!

I am lucky - all this very nearly broke me, but it didn't... .I have a phenomenal therapist who I started seeing early on in the worst gaslighting, and a core of exceptional friends, plus good parents.

The biggest lesson I've learnt is:

- I need to find out why I ended up staying for 15 months when there were signs of push-pull and mild gaslighting in the first six weeks.

My ex would be heartbroken to hear me say it but: THIS ISN'T ABOUT HIM - it's about me. I need to heal, but I also need to heal everything that went previously that left me vulnerable to clinging on to a relationship that was taking over my life and upsetting me from the first weeks... .


But reading the identi-tales here - that has shocked me. And I suspect if someone did some serious research, we in this Leaving board would have as many similarities as a group, as do our BPD/bipolar/Cluster-B exes... .
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« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2013, 02:03:37 AM »

But I will be really happy when it ends. A friend is keeping an eye on it for me, and has agreed to tell me nothing at all except when it ends... .

Why bother try to keep an eye on it? He's going to do whatever he wants to anyways

He certainly is - it's the only way he knows of living... .

Why bother to have my friend keep an eye on it? Because I'm very, very recently entered the stage of accepting that this is now over, permanently. I spent three months following his idea to try to be friends, so he succeeded in keeping my attention, as you rightly put it.

He's 'trained' my mind to be permanently trying to second-guess him.

And it's going to take time for me to care less... .and less... .and less... .until I reach the day when I just have no interest in who he is seeing.

Meanwhile, I want to be proved right, I want the satisfaction of seeing the same pattern in my replacement, I want the smug "Hah!" feeling of seeing the replacement fail just like I failed - to confirm to me that he cannot have a healthy relationship, that it wasn't that I was "not good enough" but that two horrendously-damaged people came together to create "the perfect storm" and that I am going to come out alive, despite everything.

Childish, yes - but at the moment it's working for me - and I am thinking less and less of him. I'm about to set myself rationed times in here when I talk about him, so probably an hour at the start and end of my day, then less, etc.

That way I can focus more and more on ME, and how I survive this, not only intact but stronger. And not stronger because I shut off half the world's population, but stronger because I become healthier in my mind, my feelings, my relating to everyone I know in all ways.

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« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2013, 02:09:12 AM »

Escaped --

I loved the stuff about addiction and levels of brain chems

My friends, the ones who are sending me 'PAVLOV!' messages to keep my brain-re-training going, have now started calling the normal, steady, low-level trickle of endorphins that I've never been used to, and am learning to adapt to... .their word for it is "friendorphins'! Smiling (click to insert in post)

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hopealways
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« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2013, 08:51:48 AM »

They are NOT better after us, they are the same.  They put their mask right back on and go to the next victim, seduce them, and once they have them they take the mask off and turn into their evil self once again. It's a vicious cycle but don't think they are ever happy in any relationship.  And they always will lie about how their relationships ended.
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2013, 09:01:50 AM »

They are NOT better after us, they are the same.  They put their mask right back on and go to the next victim, seduce them, and once they have them they take the mask off and turn into their evil self once again. It's a vicious cycle but don't think they are ever happy in any relationship.  And they always will lie about how their relationships ended.

In bold/underlined.

Bingo.

This needs to be understood.

It is a pattern of behavior... .

That they exhibited... .

Before you... .

With you... .

And will do so... .

After you.

It does not stop.
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« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2013, 09:23:20 AM »

I agree with hopealways and with IronManFalls BUT... .I don't think the BPDs are evil.

I think they have minimal/zero awareness of the effects of their behaviour on others. Their empathy is switched off, so that they only see the results for themselves.

As a very small child will lie, steal, do most things it can think of, in order to get the cookie - and the 3-4 year old child doesn't think, "wait, this is my brother's cookie, he'll be upset", or "wait, my brother may get unjustly blamed for me taking the cookie"... .the small child just thinks "COOKIIIIEEE!" and goes for it by any means. Including trying to climb up unstable things that, in falling, may injure the child himself.

but they jsut have no ability to think of others, themselves... .the only thought is "I NEEEED THAT COOKIIIIEEEE!"

So... .no, they are not better after us. They are the same, and they'll stay the same, unless they fully co-operate with really major therapy and treatment over many years. Which is unlikely because then they wouldn't be able to have the cookie right now.

But basically... .my ex-bf grabbed me as a cookie, chewed me up, spat me out, and has now grabbed the next cookie in the jar... .


Me - I'm busy turning myself into a gingerbread-woman, so I can run away on my little legs and never be grabbed by him again Smiling (click to insert in post)
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DragoN
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« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2013, 09:32:25 AM »

Excerpt
So... .no, they are not better after us. They are the same, and they'll stay the same, unless they fully co-operate with really major therapy and treatment over many years. Which is unlikely because then they wouldn't be able to have the cookie right now.

You are all 3 correct.

Knowing it and being forced due to circumstance to be around it for the finale, doesn't change how horrible it feels to be around the dysfunction. Need serious shields and armor to pull this off. NC is so much easier. Only the thoughts torment but I don't have to hear or see the real deal acting up in front of me.
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eyvindr
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« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2013, 11:31:08 AM »

All -- this is a really great thread. Super observations in here.

Terrific summary, Escaped --

I agree with hopealways and with IronManFalls BUT... .I don't think the BPDs are evil.

I think they have minimal/zero awareness of the effects of their behaviour on others. Their empathy is switched off, so that they only see the results for themselves.

As a very small child will lie, steal, do most things it can think of, in order to get the cookie - and the 3-4 year old child doesn't think, "wait, this is my brother's cookie, he'll be upset", or "wait, my brother may get unjustly blamed for me taking the cookie"... .the small child just thinks "COOKIIIIEEE!" and goes for it by any means. Including trying to climb up unstable things that, in falling, may injure the child himself.

but they jsut have no ability to think of others, themselves... .the only thought is "I NEEEED THAT COOKIIIIEEEE!"

So... .no, they are not better after us. They are the same, and they'll stay the same, unless they fully co-operate with really major therapy and treatment over many years. Which is unlikely because then they wouldn't be able to have the cookie right now.

I don't believe they're evil, either -- and I've struggled at times with the "non" vs "pwBPD" dynamic -- I'm cool with "pwBPD," but "nons" tends to get used in a way that implies that we're somehow better than them and feels to me like an us vs them mentality -- as if they're the enemy, as opposed to people suffering with a very damaging illness. That said, I recognize that many here have suffered genuinely horrible things as a result of the destructive, self-centered, thoughtless behaviors of the pwBPD in their lives. And some of those behaviors do very much feel evil. And maybe I'm just overcompensating with compassion.

Frankly, I'd like to see a replacement for the whole "splitting/painting us  black" convention, as well -- even if it's as "cosmetic" as just saying being "split bad" or "washed good."

Me - I'm busy turning myself into a gingerbread-woman, so I can run away on my little legs and never be grabbed by him again Smiling (click to insert in post)

I like it -- if you're gonna be a cookie, be a self-aware cookie!
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"Being deceived in effect takes away your right to make accurate life choices based on truth." -- waverider

"Don't try the impossible, as you're sure to become well and truly stuck and require recovery." -- Vintage Land Rover 4X4 driving instructional video
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« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2013, 11:52:03 AM »

Thankyou eyvindr Smiling (click to insert in post)

Massive irony in how my ex-bf's empathy switched off after the mirroring-honeymoon - I have quite serious autism (but am exceptionally high-functioning so I work round it mostly), and out of interest my ex did the "Empathy Quotient" questionnaire - I score almost off the scale at the autism spectrum end, and he scored almost off the scale at the other end!

Which fits with what BPD people themselves say, that they feel too much emotion, too much empathy and simply cannot cope with the huge intensity of feeling that much, it overwhelms them.

He was always very anxious about how my "condition" might affect the relationship... .little did I realise it would be his "condition", whatever it is in the Cluster-B group, BPD, bipolar/cyclothymia/whatever... .
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« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2013, 11:54:34 AM »

Me - I'm busy turning myself into a gingerbread-woman, so I can run away on my little legs and never be grabbed by him again Smiling (click to insert in post)

I like it -- if you're gonna be a cookie, be a self-aware cookie!

New signature on my profile/posts! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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eyvindr
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« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2013, 12:47:42 PM »

Escaped --

Wow -- interesting. Autism was one of my ex's dx's for me. Others, during the positive times, included:



  • cyclothymia


  • depression


  • sleep apnea-related irritablity




Massive irony in how my ex-bf's empathy switched off after the mirroring-honeymoon - I have quite serious autism (but am exceptionally high-functioning so I work round it mostly), and out of interest my ex did the "Empathy Quotient" questionnaire - I score almost off the scale at the autism spectrum end, and he scored almost off the scale at the other end!

Which fits with what BPD people themselves say, that they feel too much emotion, too much empathy and simply cannot cope with the huge intensity of feeling that much, it overwhelms them.

He was always very anxious about how my "condition" might affect the relationship... .little did I realise it would be his "condition", whatever it is in the Cluster-B group, BPD, bipolar/cyclothymia/whatever... .

During the bad times:



  • autism and PTSD (were included during both times)


  • bipolar


  • PTSD


  • malignant narcissistic abuser (my favorite)




Prior to our first break-up, following one of my post-blow-out ultimatums that, unless we began to address the underlying mental illness causes of our rt-ship probs, I was unwilling to continue, we began seeing (together) a therapist who specialized in D.I.D., which my ex admitted to having been dx'd as, some 20 yrs ago. We saw him about 3 times before breaking up in "chapter 1." I continued to see the therapist, for myself, throughout the period of that 2-mo break-up, and continued seeing him 1-2X/mo for another 6 mos after we got back together -- while my ex continued to talk about seeing a therapist, but never got around to doing it. During my therapy, I ASKED my psych whether he felt I could be any of these things my ex consistently implied that I was -- even shared with him some research I'd done on schema therapy and scores from tests I'd taken -- he just shook his head and dismissed it all.

Wanted to add -- in reference to my earlier comments about referring to pwBPD as being evil -- I hope no one interpreted my ramblings for righteousness. It is all very confusing -- I don't see people as evil, but I see the disease as evil, I can see where the behaviors that these individuals engage in which are triggered by the disease, can be evil -- are at best not very nice. Something my therapist said to me that was helpful, and which I often need to remind myself of, was "Remember -- (ex) may do these things b/c she has DID, or whatever she may have, but (ex) is responsible for everything she does, regardless of why or what causes it."
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"Being deceived in effect takes away your right to make accurate life choices based on truth." -- waverider

"Don't try the impossible, as you're sure to become well and truly stuck and require recovery." -- Vintage Land Rover 4X4 driving instructional video
heartandwhole
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« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2013, 01:47:49 PM »

Staff only

Hi everybody.  This thread has reached the four page limit, so it is now locked.  Feel free to start a new topic and continue the conversation.
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