Help on a question about therapy please?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I wanted to know if anyone I can relate to something I've been feeling at times, and any suggestions for me would be so appreciated.

Sometimes I get really bothered thinking of what my ex has told her friends and family and therapist about me. It's not that I didn't want her to talk to people, I even encouraged her to get a therapist, it's just that I came to see how she would say things that I didn't feel were accurate.

I know its important for me not to care what others think of me, its just that at times its been so hard that my ex could be so charming and I think manipulative, while behind closed doors she would say such awful things to me, or turn my words around. Sometimes I could let it really make me feel crazy and awful about myself.

    I got the sense that people and her therapist might encourage her to leave, as though I was the problem. This was SOO frustrating because I felt like it put the focus on me, when it could have been on her own behavior. I remembered so often wishing there was an actual video of our encounters so I could be like "See! look! here's the proof!" I wanted desperately to be in couples therapy with her so that people could see what was going on. Of course the one time we went, all the crazy stuff didn't show. And then she broke up with me again.

Anyhow, Im really moving on in a lot of ways and see not being with her as a positive thing while I work on me, I just wondered how others might have dealt with this. When we broke up she told me she had been telling my relationship she was trying to get away from me, and it sounded like her therapist was encouraging her. For some reason it seems I have a hard time believing myself, and Its hard when others may be hearing her version. Especially a therapist. Im trying to understand what bothers me so much about that.

[LivingLearning]

I wanted to know if anyone I can relate to something I've been feeling at times, and any suggestions for me would be so appreciated.

Sometimes I get really bothered thinking of what my ex has told her friends and family and therapist about me. It's not that I didn't want her to talk to people, I even encouraged her to get a therapist, it's just that I came to see how she would say things that I didn't feel were accurate.

I know its important for me not to care what others think of me, its just that at times its been so hard that my ex could be so charming and I think manipulative, while behind closed doors she would say such awful things to me, or turn my words around. Sometimes I could let it really make me feel crazy and awful about myself.

    I got the sense that people and her therapist might encourage her to leave, as though I was the problem. This was SOO frustrating because I felt like it put the focus on me, when it could have been on her own behavior. I remembered so often wishing there was an actual video of our encounters so I could be like "See! look! here's the proof!" I wanted desperately to be in couples therapy with her so that people could see what was going on. Of course the one time we went, all the crazy stuff didn't show. And then she broke up with me again.

Anyhow, Im really moving on in a lot of ways and see not being with her as a positive thing while I work on me, I just wondered how others might have dealt with this. When we broke up she told me she had been telling my relationship she was trying to get away from me, and it sounded like her therapist was encouraging her. For some reason it seems I have a hard time believing myself, and Its hard when others may be hearing her version. Especially a therapist. Im trying to understand what bothers me so much about that.

[DragoN]

Possibly it is that we are not as great as we think we are in a relationship? Her perceptions are not less valid to her than yours are to you. What she says to others will be colored by her own perspective. Perhaps she may be correct about a few things? Who knows?

What happens behind closed doors is between the 2, and unless you video tape or record it.  It's your word against hers.

If you are comfortable in the truth of what you know to be the actual state of your r/s and your efforts to make it work, what others think will not bother you as much and neither will it haunt you as some sort of failure on your part.

That's my take on it.

[LivingLearning]

Yeah, i think thats part of it, so what I do is turnaround everything I ever accuse others of, and really look to see if I do that. Or I try to look at what Im afraid of, and try to see how it could be true.

Whats interesting to me, is that one of the hallmarks of emotional abuse, or physical abuse, particularly when it comes to when men abuse women, is covertness. Its commonly said how crazymaking it can feel when someone is eroding your reputation in public, then being abusive in private. Sometimes if you're a man people don't believe you.

I am starting to realize it may be good to hear from other people "Hey, its not okay, trust your gut" "Its normal to be incredibly frustrated when someone is slandering you innacurately - dont think that's weird that it bothers you! Thats normal."

Since that is not your reply, I can work on telling myself that. Its hard to believe myself when for so many years I have others saying Im the problem (Like a BPD mom), and then attracting similar people, who say it, and so I start to believe it. And if they spread it to my community as lies, then its even more of that. So I can work on knowing that me distrusting me is ACTUALLY NOT as sign Im uncomfortable with how I've behaved. Its other peoples scripts playing in my mind and me believing all the crap.

[Whatwasthat]

Hi LivingLearning

"Hey, its not okay, trust your gut" "Its normal to be incredibly frustrated when someone is slandering you innacurately - dont think that's weird that it bothers you! Thats normal."

... .I can work on telling myself that.

Yes it is a good idea to work on telling yourself that. But I am also happy to say the same thing!

If you've been in a relationship that's involved particularly distorted perspectives - as happens when someone has a PD - or which is simply abusive - then this issue of how 'the outside world' perceives you in connection with that r/s becomes highly sensitive. It's not just like an average situation in which different people have necessarily varying views of an event.

I think it's quite natural that you want 'the world' to know and see your perspective - and to feel frustrated by the fact that a radically different view of things will be expressed by your ex partner (however real that perspective is to them).

Wishing you well. WWT.

[LivingLearning]

Thank you! It's so good to talk this stuff through and I feel myself relax some already and have more faith in my own perspective, and care less what others think.

[DragoN]

Yeah, i think thats part of it, so what I do is turnaround everything I ever accuse others of, and really look to see if I do that. Or I try to look at what Im afraid of, and try to see how it could be true.

That's fair enough and I do the same. Multiple perspectives to view the problem. My perspective is not the only potential Truth. However, I am my own Temple of Truth wrt my perspective. As are you to yours.

"Hey, its not okay, trust your gut" "Its normal to be incredibly frustrated when someone is slandering you innacurately - dont think that's weird that it bothers you! Thats normal."

Normal to be frustrated at first I'll grant you that. But after a while, and you notice patterns in the behavior, the lies to cut at your character and the lack of proof that can be coughed up to support their arguments or Gas lighting? It stops to have relevance.

Its hard to believe myself when for so many years I have others saying Im the problem (Like a BPD mom), and then attracting similar people, who say it, and so I start to believe it. And if they spread it to my community as lies, then its even more of that. So I can work on knowing that me distrusting me is ACTUALLY NOT as sign Im uncomfortable with how I've behaved. Its other peoples scripts playing in my mind and me believing all the crap.

If you are listening to the ranting of a deranged mind or being herded by the sheeple think, and using that as a baseline by which to measure your own thoughts and actions? I can see that being a problem, however if you spread your net a little to a lot wider and take advantage of recognizing that there is more than one way to view a problem/ situation and find that which more accurately aligns with your own core morals and ethics. You may find some validation in that. There are no absolutes.

[LivingLearning]

Yeah sabratha,

What you say rings true. And it's not what I was looking for.

   You know it's funny, I've done something called " the work of byron katie" for 5 years. It's in a way a vigorous method of inquiry that examines a lack of absolutes. Perhaps.

   I've also don a bunch of Buddhist stuff, and many disciplines that look at what is true.

   As to whether there are absolutes? That to me becomes a question of semantics, and lately i do wonder if there's merit in simply this, my truth, in any moment, as long as it feels genuine, and as long as it's a mix of instinct, the rational, and community.

  The catch on that is if your community happens to be nazi germany (to take an exaherates perspective for arguments sake) one must do ones best.

   Certainly a Jew during the holocaust may not respond well to an argument called "there are no absolutes". And so that Jew, may decide, regardless of absolutes, it feels right to escape, to spread the word, and to fight for what is going on- in their perspective.

   As to whether that has to do with absolutes I don't know. What I do know is I'm looking to this forum for support and advice on how to help myself, help others, help our culture follow out hearts and love ourselves to walk away from or confront abuse. Even if it the result of past abuse in another. That feels really caring, and maybe helps others too. Though I cannot know, I can simply follow what feels true for me.

[DragoN]

I like your analogy and also the reference to the shift in the parameters. Does definitely shine yet another light on the shift in perspective and the false idea of absolutes wrt human interaction and understanding.

[Learning_curve74]

For pwBPD feelings are facts, so it's not necessarily a matter of disagreeing about something subjective, but many even lie about objective facts that are not up for debate like whether you took the dog for a walk, whether you hit your partner physically, etc... .you either did or didn't.

It's been mentioned that marriage or couples therapy is often not effective when one partner has BPD because they often try to manipulate the therapist/counselor to take their side.

There was a member here that posted about recording their pwBPD acting "crazy", and as soon as the pwBPD realized they were being recorded instantly stopped all the "crazy" behavior.

Over the long haul upon repeated exposure, people will realize who is insane and who is not.