Standing up to the BPD abuser

[hopealways]

Has anyone stood up to a BPD abuser?  I finally did, and that is when we broke up for good. I told her everything on my mind. How she was abusive, mean, cruel, selfish... .It has been 3 weeks. She asked me why I was speaking to her the way I did and I reminded her she was speaking like this to me for over a year.

They can dish it out but can't take it. Any similar experiences from people who have stood up to the abuser? What was their reaction?

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, it took me a while into the devaluation stage to start giving her back what she was continuously giving me, and she wasn't having any of it, so the relationship ended quickly.  Having detached my take is she felt very poorly about herself, didn't care about herself in fact, and thought in black and white, so she had to maintain a relationship imbalance where she was in control and the boss because she didn't consider herself worthy of being an equal partner in a relationship, so if she wasn't the boss, that meant she was worthless and would lose herself.  All about the complex nature of the disorder, where she didn't see herself as an autonomous individual anyway, it took the two of us to make her whole, and she had to have the upper hand in that whole.  Crazymaking if you let it be, and there's only so much disrespect and abuse I would take before I snapped; fortunately I didn't snap too hard and end up in jail.

[mitchell16]

yep. I was told I didnt respect her, I talked to her terrible and I didnt love her. whats funny is some of the things i said to her was excatley the same thing she said to me at diffrent times word for word. Its amazing how it was fine when she said it. When I reminded her of thsi she told me It was my fault that i made her mad enough to say those things. LOL

[DragoN]

Has anyone stood up to a BPD abuser?  I finally did, and that is when we broke up for good. I told her everything on my mind. How she was abusive, mean, cruel, selfish... .It has been 3 weeks. She asked me why I was speaking to her the way I did and I reminded her she was speaking like this to me for over a year.

They can dish it out but can't take it. Any similar experiences from people who have stood up to the abuser? What was their reaction?

The reaction was really bad.

Crazymaking if you let it be, and there's only so much disrespect and abuse I would take before I snapped; fortunately I didn't snap too hard and end up in jail.

Then it becomes Reactive Abuse and you are equally guilty when you snap. Been there.

[hopealways]

Interesting how the BPD always has a bad reaction.  Also interesting how there are not too many posts on the NON standing up to the BPD.  Is it our fear of the breakup? Definitely! And the BPD know that we have this fear. That's why they will make us feel guilty for reacting/standing up for ourselves and sometimes they are so manipulative that they will make us be the ones who apologize. 

If you have had the courage to stand up verbally for yourself, don't back down and feel guilty, just keep running.

[DragoN]

Also interesting how there are not too many posts on the NON standing up to the BPD. 

If you talk about that... .it can be shocking. Some are not co dependent by nature and the outcomes were not beautiful nor PC.

Some of us stood up, but we also got hammered flat. It's a question of picking your battles and your circumstances. It's not black and white despite the assumptions.

[hopealways]

Right, even if we do stand up for ourselves, you cannot have a rational adult conversation with a BPD.  You will have stood up for yourself but unless it is followed up with ending the relationship it really does no good. 

[Ironmanrises]

The only time I was able to stand up for myself... .

Was at the point... .

Right when she came back to me... .

For the second time... .

When she was lucid enough... .

To a degree... .

Where I was able to express myself... .

And where she actually... .

Seemed to listen to me.

That was the only point... .

Where I had power... .

Because I was not in idealization... .

Or devaluation... .

Or discard.

I expressed myself... .

And told her... .

What she did to me... .

In graphic detail... .

She never heard me like that before.

And was quite taken aback.

However... .

That all disappeared... .

As soon as I let her back in.

My power diminished... .

Rapidly.

She no longer would listen to me... .

After that.

That was my stand.

I soon fell after that.

[willbegood]

They can dish it out but can't take it.

I just told my ex this recently. The sad part is when they dish it out it's almost all twisted made up stories. When we give it back to them it's all truth.

When I initially stood up to her that ended the relationship. Like many other times we would still message each other. After a while I believe she realized me standing up for myself was going to be a part of life if we still spoke. Now when we message each other she is in defense mode right from the start and pretty much looking to go on the attack.

Also, how she reacts to me standing up for myself is heavily dependent on whether or not she has someone else in her life to fall back on. Whether I'm telling her how sorry I am or if I'm slinging shots right back at her, if things are good with a new love she's going to be cold. If things are breaking down with her love I can basically say what I want and she'll let it slide.

[hopealways]

Good point, when they dish it out it's never true or they blow up trivial things just to start a fight. I think once you stand up to them their predatory nature is rattled so they would rather move on to an easier target/victim.

[Cmjo]

Yes I was also guilty of reactive abuse the times I thumped him because of the terrible frustation of all the twisted arguments and unfairness of his accusations and his bizzare behaviour. And because HELP I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND YOU WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO ME LIKE THAT just didnt work. And since I left there have been moments when he has listened to me, butnhas denied he said or did lots of things he did. The moment I stood up to him was when Inpacked the bags, and the second and final time. And refusing to even talk about going back because by then I had realised why things would never get better.

I think standing up was much easier in actions rather than words. He has never acknowledged messages explaining why I left.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Yep, last Monday I sent an email, basically first response from me in a month, telling him to get his act together before he did this to someone who kills herself, that he had clearly shown where his priorities lay (ie with his Next Victim) by spending 3 times as many nights with her in 3 months than with me in 15 months, that he needs to go talk to a specialist in dysthymia/cyclothymia/BPD because either he seriously needs help or else he's simply the most (insert string of negative traits here) I'd ever met.

And that he would not hear from me again.

Trigger for me: finding out that his Next Victim thinks she is in a relationship with him, despite his having gaslighted me for three months solid that he was not in a relationship with anyone, not with me, not with her, not with anyone, and that he love sme, has never stopped loving me, is not planning to see anyone else at the moment, isn't even talking to anyone else, just tinkering with his laptop and talking to me in his evenings.

His response: fury. "How dare you. Seriously how dare you. I am so bleeping livid. Do not contact me ever again. Or anyone I know" - then another three texts hours later saying similar things.

He had said some appalling things to me, over many months. (This is all LDR)

I had never once snapped back. He kept saying, since June, that he couldn't understand why I wasn't angry, why I wasn't yelling at him, why I wasn't on the next train down to beat him up.

Finally, I got angry for the first time in my life, and he got it full-face.


I will never understand why he spent four months insisting we were not in a relationship, but ever time I said, "ok, so we're just friends now, I shall work to accept you seeing other women so I'll be fine when it happens" he put massive effort into trying to convince me that there was nobody else but me, that he wasn't in a relationship with me, but nor was he with anyone else, that there was only me... .mirroring almost to a level of the early months.

What a waste of effort for him? I really don't see what he was trying to get by doing that? He had the Next Victim already on the go, so why waste time actively preventing me from moving on... .oh well, it probably made sense at the time to him... .

Oh yeah, and the night I sent the email on Monday, he changed his FB status to "in a relationship" which he never had before with anyone ever, so that was pretty much designed to hurt me, I think.

The British ones will know ':)ad's Army' but I don't know if the Americans will - a 1970s tv comedy series set in World War Two, with a very pompous Captain Mainwaring in charge of a pathetic Home Guard unit. He struts around being very very very important in his own eyes, and the laid-back sarcastic Air Raid Patrol Warden just cuts right through the blustering every time and does whatever he wants.

My ex presented himself as a knight in shining armour, rescuing me, saving me - so when he sent the "how dare you" email, unfortunately for him it reminded me so much of Dad's Army, that all I could visualise was a knight in shining armour, and me opening the visor to see Captain Mainwaring's face in there - which is still making me giggle even now.

I am working hard to promote this mental picture, as adding humour to an emotionally-painful memory is supposed to be a very good way to dilute the pain.


Oh, in one of the texts, he says he now hates me - whatever. He's split me black, and that's a good thing, as it makes it less likely he will try to get through the techie-walls I've put up to prevent him contacting me.

[willtimeheal]

I used to be quiet and just take it. Not anymore. I spent the last year in therapy and I have gotten so strong and confident. I have dealt with my demons and I will no longer allow anyone to push me around. My bPD and I still talk and we are trying to work it out. When she gets in a mood and starts blaming me for everything and stating it's my fault this or that happened I have no problem telling her to grow up and take responsibility for her own actions. She hates it and gets more angry. My response is grow up and deal with your problems and quit blaming others. She goes off and is angry for a while but she has learned that I will not back down or.deal with that crap anymore or be blamed for her problems. She goes off and dwells on it and deals.with it.  I refuse to be anyone's punching bag again. We have reached an understanding that we agree to.disagree. Who knows if it will last but I will never be put down and belittled again by anyone.

[eyvindr]

From my experience with my ex, what I've learned -- at least in her case -- is that my decision to begin including extinction bursts in my boundary enforcement definitely caused her to panic. My decision was based on having been through one chapter of the r-ship, seeing it implode, and then reaching out to me after devoting two months to methodically splitting bad me and our entire relationship in an online discussion forum -- sent me a txt msg claiming she needed to "tell me some things in this lifetime, if I was open to hearing them."

I agreed, and she proceeded to go through the standard pwBPD apology on all fronts, everything will be different, I have truly changed, I've gone through the fire, etc. Wanted to talk. Then wanted to make love. Said she was open to friendship, even an open r-ship -- would take it slow, etc. All went out the window as soon as we began seeing each other again. But -- I did go back into the r-ship with a therapist, knowledge and insight gained from these boards, and a commitment to *not* let it happen again.

So, last Christmas, when she ruined another holiday, I decided that I would no longer put up with the madness. I informed her that if and when those big hairy dysregulations happened, I had no intention of participating in them with her. I advised her that there is help available, and that I think it would be helpful not only to us and our r-ship, but to her and her general quality of life to begin therapy. I conveyed all of this to her clearly knowing that it could lead to the end of our r-ship -- because I was certain that I was unwilling to live that way.

And I stuck to it. Did it improve our r-ship? Sadly, no. We're done. But it did improve my sanity -- because I saw it for what it was, and stopped taking it personally. She'd dysregulate, I'd try to defuse, support, validate -- but when it was clear that the only thing that was going to satisfy her was to rage at me until I either acquiesced and agreed with her ridiculous accusations or demands, I instead detached. Not enough at times, I admit -- I, too, fell prey to reactive abuse. Not proud of it at all, but it doesn't make me an abusive person.

But -- what does it look like, when you stand up to them? Here's a transcript of one of our last email correspondences. (My responses in blue.)

Email subject (hers to me) "I was totally in love with you. I adored you."

September XX

To: eyvindr

Truth starting to hurt too much so you blocked me. That's ok. You are sick. I don't feel sorry for you anymore. It's a good feeling."

Good luck finding a woman who will put up with that type of hit.

Betcha your next gf is fat ugly and old. :-)

I hope she messes up your life and cheats on you repeatedly.

Only wish I could be there to see it all go down in flames.

(1/2) You treated me like S*** and you are f***ing CRAZY! You are pathetic and I WISH I NEVER MET YOU.

Your son inherited his BIPOLCP from YOU and EVERYONE SAYS

(3/3) your friends how you assaulted me. Tomorrow, I am going to make a police report. See ya, ass!

(2/4) going to file a restraining order against you and I hope you rot in hell. Your days of MOOCHING off my naive good nature are OVER! You will NEVER find

(1/2) I f***ing hate you. You better believe I will not stay quiet about what you did. And I will MAKE SURE to keep an eye out to tell the next girl what you did. I can wait YEARS if I have to. :-)

You will never meet someone like me again. I AM GOING TO TELL EVERYONE HOW YOU SHOVED ME AND THEN DUMPED ME fos NO REASON! Just you wait and see!

(4/4) EVERYONE SAYS SO. hit off and burn in hell, FREAK!

You NEVER deserved someone as good as me. EVERYBODY made fun of you. NOW YOU KNOW!

GOD! Two years, wasted! You were a TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT. F.U.C.K. Y.O.U.

ALL YOUR FAULT. YOU ARE BLINd and UNGRATEFUL.

I wish I had NEVER MET YOU. You RUINED two Years of my life and you are STUPID.

That night I was up at the club? I f***ed someone. :-) Enjoy that knowledge, my friend.

to me

He was way better than you, BTW.

*This* sure sounds like love to me. YOUR words, (EX), as recently as yesterday -- just ONE example of dozens. I forgave so many. When you do it, you're just "angry" -- when anyone else does it, they're abusive. I may have yelled at you in the heat of the moment, but I've NEVER said anything as remotely hateful as the things you've said to me. Realized I shouldn't have to continually be forgiving my partner for this, because they shouldn't be DOING it.

If everything were so damned wonderful and beautiful and magical, as you keep implying, then I can't for the life of me understand how I'm the same person you describe in such venomous and hateful terms. Your ex was right -- you're *hateful*.

I'm not interested in continuing this "discussion" -- if that's what you call it. I respond to your emails, and you simply ignore them and continue ranting -- for instance, I pointed out yesterday that I did attend therapy for EIGHT months -- while you talked about going, and didn't. Then made going entirely conditional upon me taking accountability for it.

It really doesn't matter anymore, and I'm not interested in arguing with you anymore. All you do is argue -- and you call it communication. It's ok. I'm sure there's someone out there that will be ok with it. I'm just not that person. This email, just like every other one you've sent, is all about how utterly blameless you are -- except for, again, being human and making incorrect choices. How come it's only you who has that luxury, while the rest of the world are abusers when they do the same thing?

Talk about denial.

Read your own words, (EX):

"YOU HAVE NO EMPATHY AT ALL. AND YOU ARE KIND OF STUPID AS WELL. AND SO NOT WORTH IT,

I F***ING HATE YOU AND WISH WE HAD NEVER MET.

I LOVE HOW YOU PIN THE BLAME ON ME FOR EVERYTHING, WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE WITH UNTREATED BIPOLAR AND GOD ONLY KNOWS

WHAT ELSE. CAN'T WAIT FOR YOUR HOUSE OF CARDS TO COME CRASHING DOWN. I WILL SIT AND LAUGH.

YOU DID A TON OF MEAN ABUSIVE hit TO ME WHEN WE WERE TOGETHER ... .AND YOU TRY TO BLAME ME? ALEAYS SCREAMING AT ME AND CRITICIZING ME? F*** YOU, eyvindr! AND F*** YOUR STUPID DENIAL TOO.

YOU CLAIM YOU LOVE ME? YOUR HEART IS BROKEN? YOU AE THE "VICTIM" ? YOU ARE SO FILL OF S***.

REST ASSURED ... .I DON'T CARE HOW FAR INTO THE FUTURE IT IS ... .I WILL WARN THE NEXT WOMAN. I WILL GIVE HER PHONE NUMBERS AND EMAILS OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BACK UP WHAT I AM SAYING, TOO. I PROMISE YOU.

YOU BROKE MY HEART AND THEN BLAMED ME FOR YOUR hitTY BEHAVIOR, I REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE YOU BURN IN HELL."

I never ever cheated on you. Not one time. I never cheated on you in my mind, in my heart, in my soul, or with my body.

Not even close.

I would never have done that. Why would I? I was totally in love with you. I adored you. I wanted to grow old with you. The thought of another person touching me turned my stomach.

I liked just going to the store with you; frankly, I didn't care WHAT we were doing. Just as long as we were together. That's all I cared about.

You did a lot of very negative, weird, unacceptable things. You hurt me in many ways. But I always forgave you.

You can sit there and tell yourself I was this terrible person who was "mean" to you. But the truth is, I loved you and treated you very well, and did my best to support and encourage you. At times I made bad choices.

I was and am willing to face that. But not at the expense of bearing all the blame. That's for sure.

Yes ... .I made incorrect choices as we all do; we are all human beings. However the bulk of the meanness and ill treatment came from you, eyvindr.

You never appreciated me. You took me for granted. You never even gave me any credit for doing things like putting those lights in the park for your birthday, and trying to cheer you up with a silly box of donuts, and

stuff like that which I only did to show how much I cared. I did a LOT of that stuff. Seemed to go right over your head.

And, yes, eyvindr: you abused me. You don't see it, but everyone else does including me. I always forgave you because I had faith you could change, and I still do.

You can go around all cocky and talk trash about how you were a "sucker" to date me, but you know it's not true. I did A LOT for you. But all you could seem to do was find fault, judge me, and be a general insensitive

jerk, topping it all off with kicking me while I was down by dumping me in the hospital.

We had magic together. All I wanted was for you to see a counselor too. Or come with me to see one. To save our relationship which I thought of as a marriage. But you are Just Too Good to do something like that I

guess.

The way you left me is cruel beyond words. The fact that you left me was bad enough, but the WAY you did it ... .wow. It's just proof you need help. You don't see it ... .but you do.

Someday you will see that. I can't make you see the light.

Yes, I have been angry, very angry. I have every right to be.

We had a beautiful thing. All I wanted was for you to put a little more work into it, work on yourself. But it was easier for you to simply blame me. It's a shame you were not willing to lift a finger to save what we had.

And then you pretty much stabbed me in the back.

I am sure I will be thinking about you when I drive home from Univ. tonight. I am sure I will be thinking about you Friday night at the theatre. In fact, I think about you all the time. I think about all the amazing adventures that were ahead of us, like the -------. Maybe another trip to ------- someday. The ------ festival. The ----- ceremony. Everything we did was an adventure.

It's very difficult.

I have nothing more to say except I will not allow you to slander and libel me, and turn me into something I was not.

Your heart knows the truth, but your heart has been so hurt by people in your past that it doesn't work correctly anymore.

And there is nothing I can do about it. I can't fix it. It's hard to accept.

But I will not listen to any more over-the-top accusations from you. Because they are projections.

Someday you'll know.

To: eyvindr

Duh! I was furious with you for abandoning me while I was half dead in the hospital! Anyone would be angry.

DENIAL is not just a river in Egypt.

You should hear what people are saying about you and telling me to say to you!

From: eyvindr

I'm sure (your therapist) would find your words pretty illuminating.

Not lost on me -- again -- you repeat: If you do it, you're just angry. If anyone else does it, it's abuse.

I honestly CHALLENGE you, (EX), to come up with your own examples. What I sent you just scratches the surface.

But, again -- I'm not interested in arguing with you. I don't know what you're getting out of this. It's just sad. We loved each other, it didn't work out.

Like, how YOU said yesterday: "It's called reality. Look around you. Get to know it."

You SAY things like that -- those words come out of your SOUL, or your heart, or at least your MOUTH -- and you don't think they have an impact?

You don't think there's no cumulative effect and impact of months and months of hearing that kind of negative, demeaning attacks?

That's what that IS, (EX) -- ASK ANYONE. ASK YOUR BEVY OF THERAPISTS -- you use language to ATTACK. You emotionally ATTACKED and demeaned me on a regular basis.

And don't you DARE try to twist that into me saying I'm a victim -- I'm most certainly NOT a victim. I left, remember. I chose NOT to take it anymore. I'm NOT a victim here.

But I was tired of your anger, and afraid of it. I admit that. I still wasn't a victim. I did stand up to you. It didn't help, or work, and it usually wasn't at all productive. But I tried.

Maybe you're right, and nothing's "wrong" with you -- maybe you just have a really, really, REALLY BAD temper. Maybe that's it. It's still more than I can take.

To: eyvindr

Funny how you hoard stuff like messages.

I wish I had written down every nasty, abusive, horrible thing you did to me. I'd have a nice list, too. But I was a forgive and forget kind of gal.

US BREAKING UP HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

You have a problem with women's anger; you are scared of women.

I feel sorry for you.

Oh, and any women would be BEYOND angry. There would be a lot more going on than just angry emails.

You're lucky I'm not like that, frankly.

From: eyvindr

Classic -- "US BREAKING UP HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME."

Absolutely. Zero. Personal. Accountability. It's like you weren't even IN the relationship! Magical!

What? -- "Oh, and any women would be BEYOND angry. There would be a lot more going on than just angry emails."

Exactly *what* would "other" women do? We had a relationship for two years. It didn't work. We broke up. It truly is not an unusual occurrence. What would "other" people be doing?

To: eyvindr

Yah, Dumping your partner in the hospital while she's fighting xxxxx and  complications, and not even ONCE trying to find out how it is going is "not an unusual occurrence". Sure it is ... .*rolling eyes*

And it certainly wouldn't make anyone EXTREMELY angry ... .*rolling eyes again*

And furthermore, it's not an extremely ___ty thing to do ... .*rolling eyes for the last time*

You just keep telling yourself that, eyvindr. You are good at believing your own lies. Maybe you will recover from your serious problems one day. I hope so.

I'm not going to sit here and explain what most people would be doing. You are unable to understand emotions.

It's very sad.

From: eyvindr

Keep repeating it, (EX), and it becomes reality. You think. It doesn't, but you think so. Go for it. Make some new tapes to play in your head.

And KUDOS for the additional stage directions! At this point, I kind of picture you as a bobble-head doll, with google eyes. Lovely.



To: eyvindr

You are out of touch with your basic human goodness.

From: eyvindr

You don't even know what that means.

To: eyvindr

And neither do you. Because you would have cared about my surgery if you were in touch. And you would have agreed to try to save our relationship. All very OBVIOUS stuff.

Your comments are welcome.

[houseofswans]

Has anyone stood up to a BPD abuser?  I finally did, and that is when we broke up for good. I told her everything on my mind.

I told my exgf that she was selfish and self-centered, sometime either before a break up or shortly after a reconcilliation.

Her reply was "Your'e not the first to tell me that"

I'll bet I wasn't!

[nolisan]

Just celebrating  1 year free - I finally stood up.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210902.0

I had written many many emails that laid out all her hurtful behavior ... .but I would never send them. I was afraid of losing her. In the end it was a surgical break and NC. I have had moments of regret that I never laid it all out for her to see.

I know that when I told her to GTFO it shocked her - she has never contacted me since. All of her past b/u's were on her terms. She said that her former lovers had a very hard time letting her go. After my decision she knew she would not get that from me.

[hopealways]

Has anyone stood up to a BPD abuser?  I finally did, and that is when we broke up for good. I told her everything on my mind.

I told my exgf that she was selfish and self-centered, sometime either before a break up or shortly after a reconcilliation.

Her reply was "Your'e not the first to tell me that"

I'll bet I wasn't!

Yes we are not the first and will not be the last.  If you really want to end it with them tell them to GTFO and mean it. They will never look back, but the break will be easier for you and they will respect you for standing up for yourself as they slither towards the next (unsuspecting) victim.

[hopealways]

Just celebrating  1 year free - I finally stood up.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210902.0

I had written many many emails that laid out all her hurtful behavior ... .but I would never send them. I was afraid of losing her. In the end it was a surgical break and NC. I have had moments of regret that I never laid it all out for her to see.

I know that when I told her to GTFO it shocked her - she has never contacted me since. All of her past b/u's were on her terms. She said that her former lovers had a very hard time letting her go. After my decision she knew she would not get that from me.

Seems like telling them to GTFO is just about the only way to get them to truly understand that they have lost you forever.  I have yet to see a post where someone told the BPDx to GTFO and she has returned.  They will not. 

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Uhh... .I told mine on Monday to GTFO and he has already tried contact last night (Sunday).

I smell, apparently


As diatribes go, it wasn't the most effective rant I've ever heard, tbh... .mostly about how hard his life is and how much I whine, then more whining about his hard life, and how he's never found me attractive, back in college or 20 years later this last 15 months.

And that hilarious bit, straight from the 4-year-old child's mouth... .: You smell!

Honestly... .how can you not laugh? That was supposed to provoke a reply from me to him? I can't type for laughing!

[DragoN]

To: eyvindr

Funny how you hoard stuff like messages.

I wish I had written down every nasty, abusive, horrible thing you did to me. I'd have a nice list, too. But I was a forgive and forget kind of gal.

US BREAKING UP HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

You have a problem with women's anger; you are scared of women.

I feel sorry for you.

Oh, and any women would be BEYOND angry. There would be a lot more going on than just angry emails.

You're lucky I'm not like that, frankly.

Keep hoarding the messages, that way you have proof. Which BPD loathe. Caught SO in a number of lies, which he wrote, then fired back to him and had a tough time with denying his own lies in his typing... .so... .

The Forgive and Forget comment? Typical, rip you a fresh back end out of the blue over nothing, then 2 minutes later all is right in their world and what's your problem?

No apology, no recognition of where they may have gone wrong?

Pass

[fromheeltoheal]

Whoa.  Thanks folks.  We had a long distance relationship, and as I started to spend more time with her and want more, she got triggered, things got very ugly, and I left.  I learned enough about BPD to see through her attempts at contacting me, so I never went there, and after reading what you guys went through I am grateful I didn't, and suspected it would go where yours went if I continued.  I'm sorry everyone went through all that hurtfulness, just as painful for the BPD as it is for us; the only winner is the disorder.

More light shined on the disorder though.  The engulfment fears showed up as I tried to move towards true intimacy, she got extra nasty, I left, then the abandonment fears showed up and she got panicky and frantic trying to get me back.  What a shtty way to live, she doesn't know any other way, it's continuous pain for her, and although I'm having none of it, I feel for her and what she goes through deeply; guess one of us is capable of empathy.

[eyvindr]

WOW -- seriously?

Uhh... .I told mine on Monday to GTFO and he has already tried contact last night (Sunday).

I smell, apparently

As diatribes go, it wasn't the most effective rant I've ever heard, tbh... .mostly about how hard his life is and how much I whine, then more whining about his hard life, and how he's never found me attractive, back in college or 20 years later this last 15 months.

And that hilarious bit, straight from the 4-year-old child's mouth... .: You smell!

Honestly... .how can you not laugh? That was supposed to provoke a reply from me to him? I can't type for laughing!

Well, yeah -- of course. Mine "crafted" about three PAGES of this kind of crap over the weekend. Here are a few choice excerpts:

Hey Monkey-Face!

Your feet smell. I didn't want to say anything at the time. But they do.

Hey Selfish Fartbag!

I thought it was gross how much you would fart. You went in the other room but I could hear you. It was nasty.

Your teeth are ugly. If I were you, I would get veneers... .

Hey MonkeyFace Facebook Addict!

You were good in bed at first, but after 3 months, you stopped trying and you started sucking.

I faked a lot of orgasms just to get it over with because the sex was so bad. Yeah you couldn't tell, could you ... .never forget I was a professional actress for many years, dumb-ass.

99% of the time, I had to "take care of my own business" while you lay there and snored, you pig. And you knew it, too. Once you got yours you would turn over and fall asleep and not care about my pleasure.

Also, what was with the premature ejaculation? Is it because you are old? Like, after 5 seconds you were done? One time you were done in one second.

I don't play that.

Still, I never complained, not one time. Because I loved you truly, and I just cared about being with you.

The next woman? Doubt she's gonna be as nice as me.   Good luck with that.

Oh, and our first time was not as great as I always said it was. I was disappointed you only lasted for 30 seconds. I just never told you.

Thing is, a year ago, when she did very much the same thing, it really hurt me. At the time, I didn't know enough about BPD to understand that it wasn't so much her spinning out of control and being consumed by hatred, as simply a function of the illness -- kind of like BPD kicked off a program in her brain, a la:

c: run devalue.exe rship/eyvindr

This time, I know what's going on. Today, when I witness it, instead of feeling crushed -- as so many of us have when we hear the person we loved so deeply say the most hurtful things imaginable to us -- I go straight to, "if our r-ship was as awful and unfulfilling as you claim it to be now, what's it say about you for staying in it for as long as you did? While we're at it, why are you still writing to me? -- I'd think, if any of this were true, a normal person would be rejoicing to be free of me."

So, as Escaped says -- none of these daitribes (perfect word for them) is effective, b/c it's all reality as filtered through dysregulation. It's like they take the true script of your time together, and read it through the over-exaggerating, histrionic, nihilistic BPD Devaluation Megaphone^TM.

Pretty sad way to live.

ps -- Escaped -- I've never met you, but I'd be surprised if you smelled anything less than good.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi hopealways,

I used to say that I went through three phases of abuse in my BPD r/s:

1.  In stage one, I was a doormat for my BPDex and her rages;

2.  In stage two, I fought fire with fire and created an even bigger fire; and

3.  In stage three, I put up boundaries, refused to engage and practiced detachment.

Stage three, however, led to an odd sort of marriage in which I no longer trusted her with my emotions and declined to share feelings, for fear they would be used against me.  By the time we divorced, we were just beating a dead horse . . .

The bottom line is that no one should have to put up with abuse and we all deserve happiness.  If that means the end of a BPD r/s, so be it.

Lucky Jim

[eyvindr]

Lucky Jim --

Hi hopealways,

I used to say that I went through three phases of abuse in my BPD r/s:

1.  In stage one, I was a doormat for my BPDex and her rages;

2.  In stage two, I fought fire with fire and created an even bigger fire; and

3.  In stage three, I put up boundaries, refused to engage and practiced detachment.

Stage three, however, led to an odd sort of marriage in which I no longer trusted her with my emotions and declined to share feelings, for fear they would be used against me.  By the time we divorced, we were just beating a dead horse . . .

The bottom line is that no one should have to put up with abuse and we all deserve happiness.  If that means the end of a BPD r/s, so be it.

Lucky Jim

Well said. My experience was pretty similar, except stage 1/2 and 2/3 were interrupted by a 2-mo break-up. I wasn't able to completely detach in either half of the r-ship -- but I did much better with enforcing personal boundaries in the second half. While we never made it to marriage, like you, I found that when my ex realized that I wasn't just talking about boundaries, I was living them, she kind of became a phantom partner, in a way.

While she didn't become absent from the r-ship, she did in a way start kind of openly just going through the motions. She went as far as to verbalize, "well, I'm not happy about that, but I guess I just have to accept it, if I want to be in a relationship with you, but I will, because I love you." So, her response was an unhappy (and unhealthy) acceptance of boundaries she didn't agree with. Which wasn't of course what I was hoping for at all -- and which ultimately was just as unacceptable a dynamic to me as her previous complete disregard for my boundaries, aside from paying them lip-service as a way to defuse an argument she knew she was losing.

What I wanted was for her to realize that my boundaries were not only acceptable, but reasonable and healthy, and to work on figuring out why they caused her so much distress -- which would have required her to accept that she has an illness, and actively commit to long-term therapy.

Which I have no reason to believe will ever happen.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

understand that it wasn't so much her spinning out of control and being consumed by hatred, as simply a function of the illness -- kind of like BPD kicked off a program in her brain, a la:

c: run devalue.exe rship/eyvindr

GENIUS! That's it exactly... .c: run devalue.exe. rship/escaped - exactly that!

ps -- Escaped -- I've never met you, but I'd be surprised if you smelled anything less than good.

Oddly enough, the very first Red Flag, which obviously I ignored and let go, because I knew that only I truly understood him... .was August 2012 after I made a joke on FB about having spilt perfume and apologising to the friend I was meeting that evening and suggesting if it hadn't worn off by then we could find a pub with tables outside. I'd have put exactly the same if I'd been meeting a woman friend, my mum, my gran, the cat, anyone... .but he went ballistic, accused me of cheating on him, hypocrisy, lying to him and refused to reply to anything for two days.

At the time, I was actually quite proud of myself - I thought, aha, no, not giving in to any kind of controlling behaviour, I'll still go ahead and meet my male friend. And I did.

It was only in arranging to meet up with him again now I'm emerging from it all that I realised a) by strange coincide I haven't actually seen that friend since the August 2012 evening, and b) I haven't worn perfume since then either. I never wore it much, but y'know, sometimes.

By chance, tomorrow I'm meeting that old pal (he and his wife once lodged with me befoe their marriage, so we go way back) tomorrow evening, and I SHALL WEAR PERFUME! :D

[eyvindr]

Awesome -- a new war cry for the newly BPD partner-free:

"When I go out, I Shall Wear Perfume!"

Funny aside here -- one of the things my ex used to always make a point of telling me was how good I smelled. 

I quote: "You never smell bad. Ever. Even after you work out." I heard this at least once a week, when I'd go to her house after my workout and have dinner with her and her daughter.

But, now, yeah -- we smell bad. If that's true, what was up with them before? I know I wouldn't get involved with someone I thought smelled bad. Kind of a deal-breaker there.

Seriously. 

[eyvindr]

Just remembered-- one of the things I got for my ex last Christmas was a bottle of Murasaki perfume (Shiseido). She didn't make a ton of money, and tended to spent most of what she earned on over-indulging her daughter. So I liked to buy nice things for her for holidays, anniversaries, etc.

So, last Christmas, I gave her this gift -- which I needed to track down and find, because the mfr has discontinued it. She claimed to lo-o-o-o-o-ove it!

She never wore it a *single* time. 

I mean, heck. If she didn't like it, fine -- I get it. Not unusual to be picky about fragrances -- it wouldn't have hurt my feelings. We could have picked out something together -- it would have been fun. But at least she could have told me. I could have given it to my mom or something. Such a waste.

[saw_tooth]

Yes I was also guilty of reactive abuse the times I thumped him because of the terrible frustation of all the twisted arguments and unfairness of his accusations and his bizzare behaviour

I was devalued and split as black as black can be the first time I called him out on his bad behavior.He looked like a puppy running away from a lit fire cracker.Yeah that scared .

And because HELP I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND YOU WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO ME LIKE THAT just didn there have been moments when he has listened to me, but has denied he said or did lots of things he did.

He denied everything and tried to blame everything back on me on forthcoming conversations.I realized that 'standing up' serves no real purpose because their emotional realm is fractured beyond repair..We non's yell at them assuming they would understand that they are making us angry by their bad behavior and perhaps try to change it.They take it as a personal attack and also sense that they are being 'hated' and might be dumped anytime ie-abandonment fears kick in.

This makes them go in the DDD mode-devalue,defend self,discard partner and RUN .

[saw_tooth]

As I started to spend more time with her and want more, she got triggered, things got very ugly, and I left. 

The engulfment fears showed up as I tried to move towards true intimacy.

All of this happened in my case.

The speed of running away from the relationship is directly proportional to the amount of love and care bestowed upon your BPD partner.

There,you have the first BPD axiom

[eyvindr]

saw_tooth and all --

This is very interesting, and rings quite familiar to me --

He denied everything and tried to blame everything back on me on forthcoming conversations.I realized that 'standing up' serves no real purpose because their emotional realm is fractured beyond repair..We non's yell at them assuming they would understand that they are making us angry by their bad behavior and perhaps try to change it.They take it as a personal attack and also sense that they are being 'hated' and might be dumped anytime ie-abandonment fears kick in.

This makes them go in the DDD mode-devalue,defend self,discard partner and RUN .

The longer our r-ship went on, the more frequently I'd experience, during arguments, my ex accusing me of doing exactly what she was doing -- often even using the same language I'd used when attempting to describe how her behavior was affecting me. Very bizarre thing to experience -- I believe it's called projective identification.

More and more, I'm beginning to think I understand that, when they split us, it's because their conscious mind has finally received the message we've sent -- that either we will leave them if they don't begin taking responsibility for their actions, or that we have left them already -- which triggers their abandonment fears. Which are too overwhelming for them¹, which triggers the BPD and the textbook response of rage and attack. It's like they can't cope with accepting that their behavior drove away the very thing they valued the most, so, in order to preserve their fragile self-identity, they have to create an "anti-us" which is bad, evil, hate-worthy -- in short, they have to rationalize why they wouldn't want to love the person who left them, in order to avoid accepting accountability for their role in driving us away. Make sense?

Still, in my case, the one typical behavior that my ex never engaged in was leaving. She would never leave, no matter how appropriate it would have been. It was almost as if she was willing to put up with any level of misery in the r-ship, as long as it continued. I never understood this. And she'd rationalize it as, "I love you, so I will forgive you. When people love each other, they always forgive each other." She never budged on that -- somehow, in the context of "love," she though any behavior was forgivable. Or, she argued it, anyway; I never gave her any horrific behavior to forgive, aside from the yelling -- which she classified as abuse.

¹ One wonders, if they'd actually just let themselves experience those fears one time, could they realize that they are actually survivable and manageable?