update

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I haven't posted in a while so I thought I'd do an update for anyone who is wondering. Finally had enough of her treatment of the kids. I decided to go for custody of the other 2 girls. When I told her she did the usual victim thing but in record speed she decided to give them up. She keeps saying she doesn't want to drag me and the girls into court, she would never do that. That she just wants me and the girls to be happy she doesn't matter. Things like that. I have to play the game to get this done but it doesn't sit well with me. I'm not used to pretending to be someone I'm not but I'll stroke her ego for the girls. It does break my heart because the girls have said they think she wanted to leave us all behind. I wish they didn't see her for what she is and could believe this was all for them.

[beeker]

I haven't posted in a while so I thought I'd do an update for anyone who is wondering. Finally had enough of her treatment of the kids. I decided to go for custody of the other 2 girls. When I told her she did the usual victim thing but in record speed she decided to give them up. She keeps saying she doesn't want to drag me and the girls into court, she would never do that. That she just wants me and the girls to be happy she doesn't matter. Things like that. I have to play the game to get this done but it doesn't sit well with me. I'm not used to pretending to be someone I'm not but I'll stroke her ego for the girls. It does break my heart because the girls have said they think she wanted to leave us all behind. I wish they didn't see her for what she is and could believe this was all for them.

[DreamGirl]

It's the paradox.

Are they better without her?

Or are they better with her?

That answer has been the hardest one for me to find in this. It's their Mama. Their only one. 

[ForeverDad]

From the sounds of it, I think the answer is... .Better off having less time with her.  It's not all or nothing.  There's a lot of room to maneuver when seeking custody and majority time.  For the more reasonable, more stable, more consistent parent to have majority time is a win for everyone.  Even their mother accepts that reality, which is a small blessing in itself.

However, be aware that her acceptance or cooperation now could flip in an instant, so walk carefully these next few months so as not to trigger an overreaction unnecessarily.  You can't avoid all conflict, but you can try to keep it to a minimum while still not being an appeaser or doormat.

[beeker]

I guess I had it easy in a sense. The girls decided they were better without her. Her "giving" them up was a way to save face and paint me as the bad ex. The painting doesnt bother me that much because at this point she isn't fooling anyone but it does hurt that the girls know her motivations. They know she is wanting to start a new life without them. The three oldest are thinking for themselves and she can't control how the feel about her. I'm making sure my lawyer is drafting a pare ting plan that leaves little wiggle room. It is my understanding that she can't get custody unless there is a significant change in the living enviroment and although there is no specific age of decision all but one of my girls are old enough that the court will listen.

[beeker]

Screwed up. She contacted all my friends and apologized. Surprised me with a visit to my work. Her live in boyfriend(his house) and her were having trouble. Figured it was a recycle attempt. Tried to avoid it and told her it was great we were doing what the girls needed but I didn't want to be friends and it wasn't neccesary for the girls. Her boyfriend talked her out of giving me custody (found out because of income difference child support would be high) and now we are going to court. She called the girls living with me and told some outrageous lies. They didn't believe her. In order to make them feel secure I have to be her polar opposite and be honest to a fault so they don't really question me but their anger at her is scary. Talked to my lawyer and she was almost giddy with some of the stuff she is pulling. Its up to the judge if the girls testify but my oldest is almost begging to. She sees some of the things that were done to her starting to happen to her sisters. I feel like things are out of control. Its like the girls are rallying to protect me. I still find myself trying to protect her a little. When she does things that will look bad in court I try and poi t it out. You can. imaging the reaction I get. I have gone absolutely no contact but now she monitors the texts between me and my daughter who lives with her. Court is going to be ugly. I am afraid they will believe her lies. Lawyer says judge has seen it all and will be able to see through it but she is very good at playing the victim. I've been a through a lot if bad situations but I've never been this scared.

[ForeverDad]

Screwed up.

You or the situation?  I don't see anything bad in your actions except this:

I still find myself trying to protect her a little. When she does things that will look bad in court I try and point it out. You can imagine the reaction I get.

Stop being overly fair, overly honest, overly whatever.  You're an adult, you have your consequences, she's an adult, she has her consequences.  You do a disservice to her and the children by not letting her experience her consequences.  And you would be self-sabotaging your own parenting case.

Our fairness and niceness are excellent qualities.  But not when dealing with situations like this.  In this case, let the cards fall, don't pick them up for her, don't tell her how to pick them up.

but their anger at her is scary.

Sounds like they're "calling it like it is".  Think of it as Righteous Indignation.  They need to disapprove of poor behaviors, that will help them when they become adults and have to make difficult but necessary choices in their own adult relationships.  Perhaps you need to do the same.  Not with anger of course but with determination not to hinder your own parenting efforts and your children's needs for a stable and loving home.

Court is going to be ugly. I am afraid they will believe her lies. Lawyer says judge has seen it all and will be able to see through it but she is very good at playing the victim. I've been a through a lot if bad situations but I've never been this scared.

Been there, done that.  It is your uncertainty of the outcome that is so distressing.  Once this is past you'll look back and hopefully be so relieved that hurdle was past.

Many here have found that the courts are so willing to protect hit__.  You fill in the blank.  Many here will say "the mother".  And the mothers who are members here would say "the disordered parent".  My lawyer remarked, "The court doesn't want to make big changes since it might 'upset' the children."  My response, "But not making big changes would upset the children!"

The $$$ aspect should be the last step of the process.  Try not to let the tail wag the dog.  Besides, if her income is low, the calculations wouldn't have her pay that much.

So... .courts are supposed to make decisions in the best interests of the children but so often the history of parenting time is a big factor.  Just about as much as the parenting behaviors.  Trust your lawyer.  Keep reporting all the missteps and blunders your ex has made.  Yes, we know you're not heartless and messed up like your spouse, but you have to let the court see the full picture, not one where you've kept zooming in to do damage control for her and making ex look better than she really is.  Don't sabotage your own case, that is a disservice to your children.

[beeker]

Don't know if parenting time means during the marriage or not but I was a stay at home dad(the real thing, cleaning, cooking with toddler at home, not sleep on the couch all day without a job) and only left them with her at the house because she had no where to go and I didn't want to take them out of the home. This was in april and divorce was in June. She abandoned the house and moved in with boyfriend in July. I think my biggest mistake was not going for custody of the other 2 children then. Still thought everything was OK. She is working the girls but it is backfiring. It is giving me all sorts of things to go to court with while also showing her hand. Unless the judge is totally old school I will have no problems. My lawyer has been in his court room quite a bit and says he looks out for the kids regardless of the sex of the parent just which is best for them. Still scared but mostly because of how hard it will be for the girls. I know o am going to be put through the ringer but the accusations are so outragious now that the are implausable.

[momtara]

Don't feel bad about needing to manipulate, keep your mouth shut, etc., when you can.  You are dealing with mental illness and a person who is used to manipulating too.  I know it's hard when you want to be over-the-top honest with her, but don't beat yourself up for treading carefully when you need to.

[ForeverDad]

Still scared but mostly because of how hard it will be for the girls.

Just think what it would be like for them if you didn't stand up step forward.  "How hard for them" is situational, long term it will be a thankfully small blip on the radar of their lives.

I know I am going to be put through the ringer but the accusations are so outragious now that the are implausable.

In most areas the law requires all allegations to be heard, no matter how outrageous.  Odds are it will make her less credible over time, that the judge will here both of you and then make a decision, hopefully a perceptive and insightful one.

My only concern is that many courts want a year or more between changes in schedule or custody.  However, if there have been incidents or new issues, the judge may see the need to act promptly.  Even if the judge doesn't make a final ruling soon, perhaps interim relief will be granted.

Don't feel bad about needing to manipulate, keep your mouth shut, etc., when you can.  You are dealing with mental illness and a person who is used to manipulating too.  I know it's hard when you want to be over-the-top honest with her, but don't beat yourself up for treading carefully when you need to.

See the difference, a disordered person's manipulation is typically self-centered without remorse or reciprocity, your 'manipulation' is mostly being wise and acting properly to avoid stirring things up and making things harder for yourself and the children long term.

[beeker]

She keeps threatening with court even though I told her I am ready and think we should go. I have made it clear the only way i wont go is if the plan we originally agreed on is signed. I don't think it will happen. I think she will avoid it and sign the new parenting plan. I haven't stopped communication but I keep it level and business like. She is not and although it it out of my character I just let her say what she wants. She has no idea how it looks. She told me I was dangerous for twin1 I have custody and she needed to take her away from me. The very next sentence she said if I didn't seek custody of the twin 2 she has she wouldn't seek custody of twin 1.(sorry for vagueness, don't want to many identifiers). To me that is major proof that she doesn't consider me dangerous or she doesn't care about the girls safety. Either way it shows her primary concern is herself. This is one of a dozen or so comments she has made in the last few days that show her true colors. I'm documenting them all. I can't help that I feel guilt about not taking the shovel away so she can't dig a deeper hole but it trully helps my case. I had to have a long talk on speaker phone with the girls explaining they shouldn't choose sides and if they do not trying and convince each other they are wrong. Twin 1 had a bad couple of days where she caught her mom in several lies. Got angry and twin 2 tried to defend her mother. Think it is OK now but a big worry for me.

[Turkish]

I have gone absolutely no contact but now she monitors the texts between me and my daughter who lives with her.

Could you ask your daughter to put a password on her phone so her mom can't check it? Might trigger something else, but at this point... .

[beeker]

She allows her mom to monitor texts to keep her happy. She does delete texts she thinks will upset her mom. I try to word them in a way that they don't appear to be an answer to a previous text. Figure it would be bad if she figured out some were being deleted.