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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Why is taking personal inventory not more busy?  (Read 2600 times)
HarmKrakow
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« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 05:38:34 PM »

I admit that I had a bit of a blow. My ex knows I have exams on Monday and Tuesday, however, she told me that after we broke up, she has not gotten her period and she got diagnosed with some hormonal thingy which might decrease or screw over her fertility.

Hormonal thingy?

She told me she has high levels of prolactin in her blood. And that it's due to the fact she is not over our r/s.

Excerpt
I feel guilty, because I know she's not lying.

How do you know for sure that she's not lying? Did you see any official documentation on this or did you just tell you this?

I don't. You are right. I don't. I only know that when since she was little, she had issues with her period because when she was younger she had a enormous issue with her ovaries. However, during our r/s, she did(!) get her period. I know before our r/s she also had issues of getting her period.

Excerpt
This has nothing to do with detachment, or feelings for her. This has more to do with the thought now eating in my head saying, ___hole Harm. You are to blame for her if she can not ever get pregnant again.

How is it your fault? Was she not using condoms and the pill? She is responsible for her sexual health... you're not. Women are also meant to get smear tests at least every two years to check for cervical cancer etc... this is all basic self-care.  There are women who don't use condoms-that just use the pill and that doesn't offer any protection against STI's. I have friends who are medical professionals so I've heard from them how irresponsible some women are regarding their sexual health...

I hate to say this but borderlines are prone to cheating-how can you be sure that you are to blame? She could have gotten this "hormonal thingy" off another guy...

I sense that she's just trying to manipulate you with this... .she sees that you're doing well with your career, that you're doing your best to move on and she's trying to retain control over you. I'm being blunt here however I know that you like hearing the truth so I'm sure you'll appreciate hearing an honest unfiltered opinion on this...

Thanks for being blunt and unfiltered. That's the only way my brain works. I don't like being padded on the back if I don't deserve it. I don't like sweet talking numerous things, it is how it is. Thanks.

She told me that she got it, because she is not over the r/s. She told me that it can't be due to other factors (work/social life etc), so it had to be due to the r/s break up.

Fact of the matter is, I don't know if she has cheated. She told me numerous times when we were in our 'hatred' phase in the r/s, that she multiple times contemplated on cheating with me. She hated me so much for everything I pulled her through that she wanted me to suffer. She wanted me to be in pain. She wanted to cheat and cheat to hurt me. And she all openly told me this. I was flabbergasted when she told me all this while looking in my face.

It hurts, because she told me constantly she wanted a huge family of kids... .and I don't want the label of the last boy who she had a chance with. But again, I don't know if she's lying. I just didn't see her incentive why she would lie to me.
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musicfan42
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« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2013, 06:29:09 PM »

It's great how open you are to blunt feedback... .very refreshing! 

Does your ex have PCOS (Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome)? It can cause period problems and reduced fertility. If your ex has PCOS, then that's really unfortunate for her but she really is responsible for her own physical health at the end of the day. She needs to go to her doctor and seek treatment for this issue. I don't understand why she is telling you about this issue-aside from trying to guilt-trip you and make you feel bad. It sounds like she's trying to put you back into FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt). You're not even together anymore-did she ring you specifically to tell you this?

I think that you're probably best setting a boundary with her on this issue to prevent her from worming you back in again. I think that you could say something like "it's unfortunate this has happened to you however it's a good idea to stick with your treatment plan for this issue." That would deflect any guilt/blame back onto her... that it's her responsibility to deal with it... not yours!

You say that you don't see the incentive of her lying to you but that's because you're an honest person. I'm honest too so I don't lie either. But other people are not like that and will lie for seemingly random reasons. So I think it's a good idea to take whatever she says with a heavy pinch of salt. The only way you would know for sure that she's telling the truth on these health issues is if you actually talked to her doctor. And since that's not possible, I don't think you should be too concerned about her health issues. I hate to say it but it could be a total lie designed to hook you in again. If you could trust her, then you would not be on bpdfamily in the first place.

Devaluing someone is emotionally abusive so you're really dealing with an abusive person here. Have you read literature on domestic violence? There are times when abusers try to recycle their victim back in with promises that they will change etc. The "cycle of violence" is very informative. Traditional domestic violence literature refers to the victim as female and the abuser as male but we all know that men can be victims of domestic violence too. And emotional abuse counts too-it doesn't have to be physical/sexual abuse.

I think that you need to prioritize your own health here. You've stated that you're suffering from PTSD as a result of this relationship... put yourself first. You're doing great-going to therapy, focusing on your career-and I feel concerned that this latest contact from your BPD ex could undo that progress.

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« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2013, 10:59:33 PM »

This has more to do with the thought now eating in my head saying, ___hole Harm. You are to blame for her if she can not ever get pregnant again.

I don't. You are right. I don't. I only know that when since she was little, she had issues with her period because when she was younger she had a enormous issue with her ovaries. However, during our r/s, she did(!) get her period. I know before our r/s she also had issues of getting her period.

Here's how I read what you said:

She wasn't having periods/couldn't get pregnant before your r/s with her. She isn't having periods/can't get pregnant now after your r/s with her. She did have periods during your r/s with her.

An equally valid conclusion here is that you did something "right" for her that might have made it possible when you were with her. (And given what I've heard about custody disputes/child rearing with a pwBPD, you dodged a bullet!)

I don't believe that either. I think her fertility (or lack of it) is a medical thing, and you have no control over it, and she has very little control over it.
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« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2013, 11:14:33 PM »

Great words Musicfan42!

HarmKrkow, please don't let your manipulative ex undo your progress. It doesn't matter if she is lying or not (and they usually are lying, and expert at getting you to doubt yourself and believe their lies).

Trust your gut instincts from now on. I had to learn what my gut instincts felt like after my r/s because I had to ignore them for so long that I forgot I even had gut instincts!  

I got free counseling at my city's domestic abuse shelter. I learned that there is no excuse for abuse ever, even if the abuser has a mental health issue like BPD.

Never feel sorry for them, they abused you! You have to protect yourself and stay away from abusers.


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Rose Tiger
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« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2013, 02:33:20 AM »

Codependents have an inordinate amount of taking on guilt for how others are doing/feeling.  BPDers have an inordinate way of playing the victim.  It really is a match made in hell!  Get out of the rescuer corner of Karpman's triangle and get in the middle.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  BPD have to be in a corner at all times (victim is a favorite), but we don't.  Does she give a dang how you've been doing?  Nope.  Being ill is not something you wished on her, people have health issues, we can be supportive without taking on responsibility.  Funny, her emotional abuse was a direct cause to the distress you are healing from now.  Does she feel any guilt about that?
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2013, 10:21:04 AM »

It's great how open you are to blunt feedback... .very refreshing! 

Does your ex have PCOS (Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome)? It can cause period problems and reduced fertility. If your ex has PCOS, then that's really unfortunate for her but she really is responsible for her own physical health at the end of the day. She needs to go to her doctor and seek treatment for this issue. I don't understand why she is telling you about this issue-aside from trying to guilt-trip you and make you feel bad. It sounds like she's trying to put you back into FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt). You're not even together anymore-did she ring you specifically to tell you this?

I think that you're probably best setting a boundary with her on this issue to prevent her from worming you back in again. I think that you could say something like "it's unfortunate this has happened to you however it's a good idea to stick with your treatment plan for this issue." That would deflect any guilt/blame back onto her... that it's her responsibility to deal with it... not yours!

You say that you don't see the incentive of her lying to you but that's because you're an honest person. I'm honest too so I don't lie either. But other people are not like that and will lie for seemingly random reasons. So I think it's a good idea to take whatever she says with a heavy pinch of salt. The only way you would know for sure that she's telling the truth on these health issues is if you actually talked to her doctor. And since that's not possible, I don't think you should be too concerned about her health issues. I hate to say it but it could be a total lie designed to hook you in again. If you could trust her, then you would not be on bpdfamily in the first place.

Devaluing someone is emotionally abusive so you're really dealing with an abusive person here. Have you read literature on domestic violence? There are times when abusers try to recycle their victim back in with promises that they will change etc. The "cycle of violence" is very informative. Traditional domestic violence literature refers to the victim as female and the abuser as male but we all know that men can be victims of domestic violence too. And emotional abuse counts too-it doesn't have to be physical/sexual abuse.

I think that you need to prioritize your own health here. You've stated that you're suffering from PTSD as a result of this relationship... put yourself first. You're doing great-going to therapy, focusing on your career-and I feel concerned that this latest contact from your BPD ex could undo that progress.

Yes, she has that issue, and also hyperprolactinemia because she is not over the r/s with me. That's what she told me. She got hyperprolactinemia because of me. And then there was a whole story about she is SO trying to get over me but her body told her 'otherwise'.

She sometimes gives me a very strong feeling that she enjoys having catched up on me with studies and work. When we met, I was the successful one. Now after she is the successful one and I am the failure. When I did my exams back in July, I literally couldn't think straight and everything I did, I heard a "evil" muahaha, you don't know the answer this question either... I failed horribly and therefore I have to resit them now.

Great words Musicfan42!

HarmKrkow, please don't let your manipulative ex undo your progress. It doesn't matter if she is lying or not (and they usually are lying, and expert at getting you to doubt yourself and believe their lies).

Trust your gut instincts from now on. I had to learn what my gut instincts felt like after my r/s because I had to ignore them for so long that I forgot I even had gut instincts!  

I got free counseling at my city's domestic abuse shelter. I learned that there is no excuse for abuse ever, even if the abuser has a mental health issue like BPD.

Never feel sorry for them, they abused you! You have to protect yourself and stay away from abusers.

I do feel sorry for her. She had a worse youth than mine. I know I got sucked into the BPD drama also because my youth wasn't that great. No physical abuse or anything, but just zero love what so ever, with divorced parents and 5 different foster parents in my youth. My ex had a hitty youth.

My cortisol levels after the break up got screwed over. I got straight into PTSD because the way I reacted to all this was so severe, it even scared me. I puked sometimes 10 times in a row because of a trigger.

Codependents have an inordinate amount of taking on guilt for how others are doing/feeling.  BPDers have an inordinate way of playing the victim.  It really is a match made in hell!  Get out of the rescuer corner of Karpman's triangle and get in the middle.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  BPD have to be in a corner at all times (victim is a favorite), but we don't.  Does she give a dang how you've been doing?  Nope.  Being ill is not something you wished on her, people have health issues, we can be supportive without taking on responsibility.  Funny, her emotional abuse was a direct cause to the distress you are healing from now.  Does she feel any guilt about that?

I do agree with your point that I never (after the b/r with my ex) felt that she TRULY cared about how I was doing for 1 measly second.

I have my exams on Monday and Tuesday and I nearly broke today. My memory doesn't last longer than 24h so it seems. and the amount of knowledge I need to get in my head is quite a bit. She told me she can't get pregnant. She knows I have my exams soon. If I fail my exams I have 7 months of Holiday before my resit and any proper chance of a good career are gone. I only fit in 1 normal working society, that's within banking.

After the break up, I had a long time here, posting, emotional venting. I really improved, new shack, new place, new everything. Still therapy, and already had several EMDR consults. I was gone here for a good few months trying to work on my recovery. Slowly bit by bit getting ready.

Now a few days before my exams I crack emotionally. I ended up crying for an hour in the shower today, with the fear of not passing the exam and the feeling i am not allowed to pass those exams. I have no family to go to because my therapist told me not to use that anymore for any crying shoulder. Majority of my friends all live in London and work there in the financial industry (as you can imagine they don't work 8-5). I am still in the Netherlands because of my move to this country with my ex in September 2011.

Atleast I understand why the therapist would tell me to re-evaluate my emotions from the past when i just broke up and how i feel now (and thus get back to this board). I think they were expecting me here to vent again as I really don't have much other place to vent about this :P
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musicfan42
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« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2013, 11:35:10 AM »

You ex is just using all these apparent illnesses to manipulate you. She might just have googled it online for all you know... she might not be sick at all.

It sounds like she is jealous of you because she knows that you're smart.

You still are successful-you gained a good job at a bank, you're going to therapy... you're doing great! 

You have PTSD as a result of the relationship but that's not your fault... it's just down to the emotional abuse you suffered at the hands of your ex. I'm being blunt again here because I think it's good to tell it as it is. Please don't fall for your ex's attempts at manipulation/emotional blackmail. Can you get a new SIM card for your phone and just change your phone number? Or else just turn off your phone until your exams are over.

There's mindfulness videos here that might help you deal with stress: www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/instant_mindfulness.html

There's also a website on self-compassion here that might help you to be gentle and kind to yourself: www.self-compassion.org/

Feel free to vent here whenever you like-it's good to get it off you chest!

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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2013, 01:22:55 PM »

You ex is just using all these apparent illnesses to manipulate you. She might just have googled it online for all you know... she might not be sick at all.

It sounds like she is jealous of you because she knows that you're smart.

You still are successful-you gained a good job at a bank, you're going to therapy... you're doing great! 

You have PTSD as a result of the relationship but that's not your fault... it's just down to the emotional abuse you suffered at the hands of your ex. I'm being blunt again here because I think it's good to tell it as it is. Please don't fall for your ex's attempts at manipulation/emotional blackmail. Can you get a new SIM card for your phone and just change your phone number? Or else just turn off your phone until your exams are over.

There's mindfulness videos here that might help you deal with stress: www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/instant_mindfulness.html

There's also a website on self-compassion here that might help you to be gentle and kind to yourself: www.self-compassion.org/

Feel free to vent here whenever you like-it's good to get it off you chest!

I will try the mindfulness when I go to sleep. One of my issues has been major sleep deprivation.

I tried

-melatonine

-valium

-mirtazepine

-oxazepam

-temazepam

-all sorts of herbs

-warm milk :P

-walk before going to bed.

-alcohol (works, but emotional hangover), i'm not a heavy drinker and I don't even smoke. Nor ever tried recreational drugs.

4 more full days, and I booked a hotel before my night of the exam (which is close to uni). I can really feel a difference between 3/4 months ago and now. The intensity of my feelings and emotions is a lot lower, I have more control (which remains vague).

I remember having struggled to tell some of my friends, PTSD, out of a relationship? You joking right? Well unfortunately me and my ex were a match made in hell and she obliterated me. There has been a time where I seriously contemplated suicide (also as side effect of anti depressiva) but they are not as severe as they used to. I don't even use anti depressants anymore.

Life is seriously interesting. It's definitely NOT FAIR But I don't want to be a whiny little r*nt about that either. You have to play with the cards you have been dealt. And if that means going back completely rock bottom and restarting an entire new social life, so be it. But man oh man, do I struggle.

And the funny thing is, I hate complaining :P I always had a *stfu* attitude and just shove ur balls on the plate and get to work. Now I go boo-hoo when I hear a emotional song which reminds me of her and me? Damn :P

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musicfan42
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« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2013, 03:48:34 PM »

Oh it's unlucky that those medications haven't worked for you. I was on an anti-depressant before that gave me a great night's sleep. I think sometimes, it's trial and error getting the right medication to suit your personal needs as there's so many out there on the market.

It's great that you're willing to try the mindfulness... I found it very helpful personally in dealing with stress.

Most people don't really know anything about PTSD so it's more about lack of information than anything else. Some people might know that soldiers sometimes get it but PTSD can happen after any kind of traumatic experience.

I've had suicidal thoughts before too. If you experience suicidal thoughts again, then please seek outside help i.e. call a suicidal hotline phone number, ring your doctor and/or call emergency services. You don't have to suffer alone. Talking to someone about how you feel really does help.

It's great that you feel better now than 3/4 months ago. Smiling (click to insert in post)


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P.F.Change
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« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2013, 09:12:35 PM »

Hi, Harm, good to see you are doing better. It sounds like you have made some positive changes in terms of both your outer life and inner life. EMDR was a great help to me. I was able to access deep emotions that I hadn't yet been able to even articulate or identify before. Keep up all that good work!

Excerpt
She told me that she got it, because she is not over the r/s. She told me that it can't be due to other factors (work/social life etc), so it had to be due to the r/s break up.

I believe the medical term for this explanation is Acute Bullo-Crappittis.   Excess prolactin can be caused by a couple of things--primarily physical ones, such as tumors--and ex-boyfriends are definitely not one of them. She is trying to blame you for things that aren't even remotely your fault, and you are letting her.  All facts get filtered through her feelings first, so if you are accepting her interpretations as truth without looking at possible alternatives, you run a risk of being grossly misinformed.

If she is not over the r/s, that is HER responsibility to fix, NOT yours. You cannot control how she responds to stress. It is her job to figure that out or ask professionals for help. Her doctors and therapists can be the ones to help her sort through everything. By her own account, she was having fertility related issues before you even came along. If you were the cure for her problems, her doctors would be writing her prescriptions for 10 mgs of Harmkrakow q.i.d. and some pharmaceutical company somewhere would be making a fortune off of you. Instead, if she is even seeing a doctor for this, they are likely prescribing her something that actually might work--as I understand it, this condition is often easily treated with medication.

You are not responsible for your exgf's fertility or lack thereof. You are not responsible for her ability to cope with breakups. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself, and that's a big enough job right now. What do you need to do to help yourself over the next few days so that you can focus on what's important?

Wishing you peace,

PF
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letmeout
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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2013, 01:32:35 AM »

I am still laughing over Acute Bullo-Crappittis!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2013, 10:45:01 AM »

I am still laughing over Acute Bullo-Crappittis!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I'm curious as to what the accepted treatment is for this dreaded disease.
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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2013, 02:10:18 PM »

I am still laughing over Acute Bullo-Crappittis!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I'm curious as to what the accepted treatment is for this dreaded disease.

Truth Serum! But unfortunately it's hard to find and even if you have some the patients usually spit it out  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2013, 03:06:55 PM »

Hi, Harm, good to see you are doing better. It sounds like you have made some positive changes in terms of both your outer life and inner life. EMDR was a great help to me. I was able to access deep emotions that I hadn't yet been able to even articulate or identify before. Keep up all that good work!

Thanks. I do feel better in comparison to my posts a few months back. Purely looking at that, I have improved! And I'm sure you remember the difficult times I were in during that period.


Excerpt
You are not responsible for your exgf's fertility or lack thereof. You are not responsible for her ability to cope with breakups. You are not responsible for anyone but yourself, and that's a big enough job right now. What do you need to do to help yourself over the next few days so that you can focus on what's important?

Wishing you peace,

PF

I need to realize that if I fail the exam. That my life is not over. But it is a hard pill to swallow if I do fail. It is not a matter of knowledge. It is a moment of being able to shine at a moment where I have million triggers to my ex (my ex has done this exam, in the same room, same teacher) and I just can't keep my head together.

If I fail, I am stuck for 6 months in a country without a job, without anything. And without the right material to get a job to my standards. There is no point in building up a life here, as New York and London are both pulling on me while at the moment I live in a little shack town called Culemborg (you could look that up :P).

My therapist is seriously scared for me sliding down again. Also because our break and now, is not even half a year yet, and considering all the nasty hit i got out of this relationship I should take more time for myself.

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« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 03:11:28 PM »

Truth Serum! But unfortunately it's hard to find and even if you have some the patients usually spit it out  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Precisely why it should be produced in a children's flavor.
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« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2013, 03:38:21 PM »

Personally I think I spend more time on other boards because I don't have time for personal inventory. I am so caught in the drama of dealing with all that my N/BPD exH throws at me through the legal system I don't have time online to look for support on other boards. One day I will get there.
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« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2013, 05:32:05 PM »

Praying for you Harm, for all needs and concerns 
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2013, 05:53:39 PM »

Praying for you Harm, for all needs and concerns 

I emailed my ex a 6-page letter.

No hatred. No bashing. No smearing. But also not laying myself open to much. I had no tears typing it, but felt a great relief for having sent it. I am afraid of a counter reaction but I just really needed some extra space in my head

I still feel a lot of anger and hatred towards her, and for what she (and her screwed up family) has done to me. But I convert that anger into positive energy at my therapy lessons.

I wish I believed in religion, or had a father or mother or family to cry a shoulder on. I feel disabled for having to 'lean' on the internet to vent my emotions  :'(

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« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2013, 03:04:24 AM »

It does hurt.  I spent so much effort trying to get my ex to love me but he is broken.  All goes back to having a Dad that was broken and couldn't love me.  It was so painful being a little girl and not understanding why her daddy didn't love her.  I thought I was bad and no good, which was a lie, I was and am lovable.

The world is unfair at times, as you said, but look at all the posts here Harm of people that like you and care about you.  There is love dripping all over the place for you, there is good in this world.  It is good to have a place to talk about your feelings and have people that understand.    People are all broken in some aspects, some are cruel and unkind and some will love you and care about you.

My earthly father isn't capable of love but my heavenly Father loves me to pieces.  I find a lot of comfort in that, having that solid rock to stand on.  Religion is man trying to be good enough, reaching up to God.  Jesus is God reaching down to man saying, there is nothing you need to do to be good enough, I love you. 
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« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2013, 05:26:17 AM »

I wish I believed in religion, or had a father or mother or family to cry a shoulder on. I feel disabled for having to 'lean' on the internet to vent my emotions  :'(

It sounds like you are looking for a sense of community - connection.  Albeit we are faceless and nameless, we are a community and you do have some kind of connection here.  You are reaching out in a vulnerable state, laying it all on the table, and getting heart felt responses.  That is something.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I do understand what you mean, though.  I struggle with the same thing, at times.  I need eyes to look into, a hug, the sound of laughter accompanied by a smile.  

I live in a big city, and although I don't feel alone, I do feel lonely, as I'm still fairly new here.  I am surrounded by people all day, everywhere I go, yet when I walk in the door of my apartment, it's just me.  I can hear my neighbors next door, and can see them walk by my window.  Still not fully alone, but I don't say 'hey, you want to hang out?.  I go out to see live music a lot - I make connections there, but only for a brief moment in time.  I talk to my friends and family by phone - no hugs, I hear their laughter, and can picture their smiles, but that is different.

I have started opening up to those around me more than I have in the past, and am starting to feel more of a connection.  I have chosen to pursue religion, but since I'm new to it, I'm finding it more of a personal thing, that although I discuss with a few select people, I have not jumped into the community aspect of it yet.  Not sure exactly why, but I do feel it has something to do with not allowing myself to be fully vulnerable yet.

So, until I'm ready to take that risk of being vulnerable again, I have moments of disconnect and loneliness.  Perhaps this is at the core of your feeling?  I don't know - just sharing my thoughts.  
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« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2013, 08:09:18 AM »

I wish I believed in religion, or had a father or mother or family to cry a shoulder on. I feel disabled for having to 'lean' on the internet to vent my emotions  :'(

It sounds like you are looking for a sense of community - connection.  Albeit we are faceless and nameless, we are a community and you do have some kind of connection here.  You are reaching out in a vulnerable state, laying it all on the table, and getting heart felt responses.  That is something.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I do understand what you mean, though.  I struggle with the same thing, at times.  I need eyes to look into, a hug, the sound of laughter accompanied by a smile.  

I live in a big city, and although I don't feel alone, I do feel lonely, as I'm still fairly new here.  I am surrounded by people all day, everywhere I go, yet when I walk in the door of my apartment, it's just me.  I can hear my neighbors next door, and can see them walk by my window.  Still not fully alone, but I don't say 'hey, you want to hang out?.  I go out to see live music a lot - I make connections there, but only for a brief moment in time.  I talk to my friends and family by phone - no hugs, I hear their laughter, and can picture their smiles, but that is different.

I have started opening up to those around me more than I have in the past, and am starting to feel more of a connection.  I have chosen to pursue religion, but since I'm new to it, I'm finding it more of a personal thing, that although I discuss with a few select people, I have not jumped into the community aspect of it yet.  Not sure exactly why, but I do feel it has something to do with not allowing myself to be fully vulnerable yet.

So, until I'm ready to take that risk of being vulnerable again, I have moments of disconnect and loneliness.  Perhaps this is at the core of your feeling?  I don't know - just sharing my thoughts.  

Thanks for throwing your feelings on the table here. I relate.

I am looking for a sense of community, however I would not consider myself vulnerable to any sense of community where I would jump it with both feet. I do consider this from time to time a part of my life, purely for the fact that when I read so many stories, I feel so many similarity it's mind boggling from time to time.

I remember my ex telling me, that posting on the internet, on an internet community is "sick". I believed her for a long time. Still do from time to time. She was the closest what I thought was true love so of course, she tells me something I tend to believe it. Why? Simple, she was the truest thing to what I considered love and the very first thing I felt like a home.

And yes, I do get heartfelt responses here, I do appreciate that. Actually, it's the virtual shoulder I sometimes need.

I do make a (few) connections here in my new town, but they are all shallow. They don't go in depth. They remain in the field of; "Awesome band no? Awesome music no?... how was your day? Who are you? Okay, nice to have met you, have a nice day ... etc". If it is shallow, it feels pointless to me.

I do put myself to often very vulnerable on the table. I might be too naive about that, I do realize that. But I want to move on and I don't see incentives for others to hurt me. What for? Personal gain? Some misplaced feeling of being able to hurt someone? One of my problems as well as that if I don't have any feedback, or someone to speak to from time to time, everything I seem to do, doesn't seem to exist. It's like not happening because no one can see it. And not that anyone HAS to see that I do something, but to me it gives me the feeling like I don't really exist. I'm just talking in the dark again.

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« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2013, 09:43:45 AM »

One of my problems as well as that if I don't have any feedback, or someone to speak to from time to time, everything I seem to do, doesn't seem to exist. It's like not happening because no one can see it. And not that anyone HAS to see that I do something, but to me it gives me the feeling like I don't really exist. I'm just talking in the dark again.

This leads me to my next thought which is about having a sense of purpose.  I think we talked a little about this before, but something that I am also in the midst of figuring out, and why I decided to 'check out' what religion has to offer, as it speaks to this.

The church I go to is a bible church, non-denominational, and is geared more towards those who are on the fence about religion.  It's more of an intellectual lecture hall feeling than it is a traditional church.  One recent service they played a snipet from a video of Pete Briscoe telling a story of his father who had encountered a hippie who he asked 'why do you think you're here?'.  The hippie said 'My parents told me I was an accident, the way I live my life, most likely I will die in an accident, so basically I am an accident suspended between 2 accidents.'

Pretty sad. 

I'm not saying that you need religion to have a purpose, but that having some sense of purpose can help us get through the trying moments in life.

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« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2013, 10:16:18 AM »

I don't feel afraid of emotional vulnerability either. I'm aware that some people envy me for this. I had an ex boyfriend who told me that he found it hard to connect with people and he openly admitted that he thought my ability in this area was a gift. He found it very hard so it was galling for him to see me chat to people so easily... to talk about my feelings, difficult issues etc so openly. I felt bad for him but at the same time, I felt that he was trying to "dim my shine" as Tyra Banks would put it Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .that just because he had an issue with it didn't mean that he had the right to take it away from me.

I was unimpressed with Brene Brown originally... I thought "oh this is all common sense" but then I realized "no wait... we live in an emotionally repressive society... maybe her influence will be able to make a difference on a cultural level". I think it's good that she's getting that message out there.

There's very few people that I really connect with deeply. I've had one friend that I've felt comfortable talking openly with... being really vulnerable. I think that type of friendship is rare... it's not the norm.

I actually met someone the other day that I felt instantly connected to. She was able to validate me in a very natural, effortless way. I can actually spot when people are using validation techniques and/or assertiveness techniques from a book. Probably because I've read books myself so I think "oh you're using such and such a technique right now"... it's kind of funny really... .almost like I know their "trick" really. But this woman the other day was so natural-she wasn't using any techniques/tricks at all. But I think people like this are rare.
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« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2013, 10:32:48 AM »

One of my problems as well as that if I don't have any feedback, or someone to speak to from time to time, everything I seem to do, doesn't seem to exist. It's like not happening because no one can see it. And not that anyone HAS to see that I do something, but to me it gives me the feeling like I don't really exist. I'm just talking in the dark again.

This leads me to my next thought which is about having a sense of purpose.  I think we talked a little about this before, but something that I am also in the midst of figuring out, and why I decided to 'check out' what religion has to offer, as it speaks to this.

The church I go to is a bible church, non-denominational, and is geared more towards those who are on the fence about religion.  It's more of an intellectual lecture hall feeling than it is a traditional church.  One recent service they played a snipet from a video of Pete Briscoe telling a story of his father who had encountered a hippie who he asked 'why do you think you're here?'.  The hippie said 'My parents told me I was an accident, the way I live my life, most likely I will die in an accident, so basically I am an accident suspended between 2 accidents.'

Pretty sad.  

I'm not saying that you need religion to have a purpose, but that having some sense of purpose can help us get through the trying moments in life.

Thanks for addressing this.

I have to let you in to something I haven't told anyone besides my therapists. I am sort of a mistake between my father and my mother. My mother was drinking, smoking (like crazy), and on a enormous sense of swallowing medicines when she was pregnant of me.

My mother got diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis before she got pregnant with me, however, there was also something mentally wrong. The multiple sclerosis also affected parts of her brain which controls the 'behavioral' stuff of a person. But, doctors said that she was already very vulnerable for personality disorders and this disease MS also made that develop quicker. My mother could just sometimes literally 'fall' on the floor, was an enormous hypochondriac, no sense of money, no listening skills. Doctors never were capable of giving her a specific personality disorder, but she lives almost since I was born in a mental institute. My mother never got further than secondary school, and my father just went one level above that. They both grew up in the rural parts of the Netherlands, meaning, on a farm... .

The family of my mother is superior strict religious and gave my father hell because he wanted to split up, and well, you are married for life. I wasn't wanted, I was leverage(!) ...

My father went through hell and forth wanting to leave my mother because she couldn't take care of herself anymore, and the family of my mother wanted him to take care of my mother (who spend all the money and didn't take care of me) and me! That destroyed him of course. Doctors and psychologists were behind my father and eventually the family agreed to put my mother in a mental hospital for the rest of her life (she still is there) so there are nurses who can take care of her. Under the contract by a lawyer that I see my mother twice a week till my 14th birthday.

Ever since I was little, at primary school, secondary school, everyone in the neighbourhood was aware of my situation, because I had a 'really strange' mother and I have been from foster parent to foster parent to foster parent (where I even have been hit by them... ) ... .No brothers, no sisters, just home alone. You know who my biggest friend was? My cat(!) Who died last christmas (where my ex told me, why on earth did you get so attached to an animal that you cry? The little animal turned 16 years old ... ) When I was in secondary school, teachers even from time to time brought me to my mother. Even when going to the later classes in school, I had teachers telling me, visit your mother. Or you will feel guilty for the rest of your life (!).

I never felt any connection with my mother. Never. I was a mistake, a pure leverage between 2 torn families in the sake of ego and pride. How am I supposed to feel? I ___ed up high school year after year, year after year. I was so bad they didn't even thought I was being able to handle going to university. I took 2 years longer than everybody at high school, and in my last year the professor told me, you are good in maths and finance, you enjoy it, i can see that. Don't stay here in the Netherlands. GO AWAY! The therapist at school agreed with me. I told my families...

They all(!) laughed at me. You? Going to university? In London in the United Kingdom? YOU WILL COME BACK CRYING(!) You failed high school 2 years in a row ... how on earth are you going to succeed in London?

I went to London, cried my guts out for 2 weeks, after that, I became a man. Sitting in the corner crying is not going to do you any good. I had to stand up for myself, and I did. It felt as a fresh start. I finished cum laude first class honours on my university degree (year after year in uni) as the best student of my studies (which was Financial Economics at the time (math/finance/economics)) Did I study like crazy for it? No, not particularly more than I did in high school, but I felt better, and thus the better grades came ... .(You think any support of my family? ... they all told me if you are so clever, how come you screwed up high school?). I did so well in London that I got asked for a internship at one of the top international firms in my industry as the ONLY intern on their entire floor. I felt on top of the world.

You knew who started clinging on me? ... My ex. She wanted to the Netherlands, pulled me along. Rejected a full time offer from my employer and moved in with her in Rotterdam. That is September 2011. We broke 'officially' March 2013. I traveled like ape sh!t for a good 2 months, had a few very strong suicidal episodes (as you remember) and finally fought myself a little bit back to where I am officially right now. I moved to a complete new place (where I don't know anyone(!)), to finish that ___ing degree and move to either New York or London to regain that career in finance. If I don't pass my exams on Monday and Tuesday my life isn't over, that is what I need to know. I don't feel mentally strong at all and my psychologist told me not to go for this yet, however my age is not in my favor, i already screwed up a Masters year at university and 2 years at high school making me older than the rest. If I fail, I have to wait till July 2014.

I am not strong at all at the moment. I cut off official contact with my family of my mother and father since Christmas 2012. I only am still in contact with my father.

It's just me. No brothers, no sisters, no family. And most of my friends are just plain hard working bankers, going across the world 24/7.

So am I sitting sometimes in the corner and blame EVERYONE around me? And do I drown from time to time in my own self-pity? YES, I do. I am sorry. I don't want to do that. But I feel physically and mentally that I can't always do everything just on my own. I don't like that though. I rather do it on my own.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I sometimes still have the feeling, if I would be dead. At least i solved the issues of other persons. It's not that I cut myself and walk through across a railroad everyday, it's the mere thought that my existence is just nothing but a big joke to others.

I don't feel afraid of emotional vulnerability either. I'm aware that some people envy me for this. I had an ex boyfriend who told me that he found it hard to connect with people and he openly admitted that he thought my ability in this area was a gift. He found it very hard so it was galling for him to see me chat to people so easily... to talk about my feelings, difficult issues etc so openly. I felt bad for him but at the same time, I felt that he was trying to "dim my shine" as Tyra Banks would put it Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)... .that just because he had an issue with it didn't mean that he had the right to take it away from me.

I was unimpressed with Brene Brown originally... I thought "oh this is all common sense" but then I realized "no wait... we live in an emotionally repressive society... maybe her influence will be able to make a difference on a cultural level". I think it's good that she's getting that message out there.

There's very few people that I really connect with deeply. I've had one friend that I've felt comfortable talking openly with... being really vulnerable. I think that type of friendship is rare... it's not the norm.

I actually met someone the other day that I felt instantly connected to. She was able to validate me in a very natural, effortless way. I can actually spot when people are using validation techniques and/or assertiveness techniques from a book. Probably because I've read books myself so I think "oh you're using such and such a technique right now"... it's kind of funny really... .almost like I know their "trick" really. But this woman the other day was so natural-she wasn't using any techniques/tricks at all. But I think people like this are rare.

I open myself up to everybody. I go to a random pub or club or anything in any country and likely within 4 hours I have told someone my entire life story.
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« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2013, 10:59:12 AM »

There's very few people that I really connect with deeply. I've had one friend that I've felt comfortable talking openly with... being really vulnerable. I think that type of friendship is rare... it's not the norm.

I've been working on this too.  Humans are hardwired for connection and belonging, and we don't do well without them.  Then again, real connection requires vulnerability, which requires courage, and also time.  I'm pretty good with the courage part, I've learned that the things that really matter in life happen outside our comfort zone at first, but what I've been focusing on is building relationships slowly and having people earn the right to come inside my boundaries and see that vulnerability.  These things take time.  Blurting out a bunch of deep stuff right off the bat actually works against the forming of a bond, since it can shock people and is inappropriate.  We can spew some social commentary that we all live fast-paced, stressed out lives, but what could be more important than slowing down and building real relationships?  I just connected with how that was a factor in me getting so "close" with my BPD ex in such a hurry, it fit with the rest of my life, little did I know... .

The whole boundary thing is new to me.  I'm very accepting of people, and this people pleaser has always given hoping to get, and that doesn't work very well.  Turns out a very small percentage of the people I know and meet are willing and/or able to have the kind of relationships we're talking about here, two folks need to be on the same wavelength, have chemistry, however you want to put it.  Folks have always called me 'weird' or 'different', which I consider a compliment, since I always think for myself and march to my own drummer, but finding that real, true, deep connection has always been elusive, definitely a big factor in my susceptibility to my BPD ex. 

So anyway, a focus on boundaries is a focus shift for me.  A boundary feels like a mask, I know they're different but I'm still dabbling.  And at some point we have to take the leap of courage to be vulnerable in search of that real connection, of just be vulnerable just because.  Today's version is by focusing on boundaries to begin with, I increase my changes of choosing to be vulnerable with the right people, the people I can build deep relationships with.  Processing... .
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« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2013, 11:45:08 AM »

There's very few people that I really connect with deeply. I've had one friend that I've felt comfortable talking openly with... being really vulnerable. I think that type of friendship is rare... it's not the norm.

I've been working on this too.  Humans are hardwired for connection and belonging, and we don't do well without them.  Then again, real connection requires vulnerability, which requires courage, and also time.  I'm pretty good with the courage part, I've learned that the things that really matter in life happen outside our comfort zone at first, but what I've been focusing on is building relationships slowly and having people earn the right to come inside my boundaries and see that vulnerabilityThese things take time.  Blurting out a bunch of deep stuff right off the bat actually works against the forming of a bond, since it can shock people and is inappropriate. 

I can relate to this so much fromheeltoheal... it's like you're describing my own internal thoughts and feelings here.

I used to blurt out stuff and that shocked people... made them think that I was a loose cannon-that I would just come out with anything... almost that I was deliberately trying to shock/provoke people when that wasn't my intention at all. I was just really outspoken... too honest. I was very fiery-would lose my temper a lot and I think people deliberately tried to troll me just to gauge my reaction. That alone made me work on my boundaries because I thought "screw this-I'm not going to be trolled like this anymore!"

I was so desperate for connection that I was trying to force it but it just doesn't work like that. Sure-I can be very charming etc but that's not actually connection... that's just... oh I don't know what that is... .It's selling myself to people/marketing myself in a certain way... it's not real. It's so easy for me to do that but I don't want to do it anymore... I'm sick and tired of it.

We can spew some social commentary that we all live fast-paced, stressed out lives, but what could be more important than slowing down and building real relationships?  I just connected with how that was a factor in me getting so "close" with my BPD ex in such a hurry, it fit with the rest of my life, little did I know... .

Urgh-I hate that whole social commentary thing that life is so hectic blah blah. I hate social media like facebook etc. I've been nagged to join facebook but I think "no-I don't want to."

It's hard for me to slow down though... I find it unbelievably hard to relax...

The whole boundary thing is new to me.  I'm very accepting of people, and this people pleaser has always given hoping to get, and that doesn't work very well. 

Yep-I think I was too accepting of people in the past. It's important to have standards/limits.

Turns out a very small percentage of the people I know and meet are willing and/or able to have the kind of relationships we're talking about here, two folks need to be on the same wavelength, have chemistry, however you want to put it.

Yep-most people don't want to put the effort in.

Folks have always called me 'weird' or 'different', which I consider a compliment, since I always think for myself and march to my own drummer, but finding that real, true, deep connection has always been elusive, definitely a big factor in my susceptibility to my BPD ex.

Argh-I've been called "free spirited" and "feisty" a lot before which is basically the equivalent of "weird" or "different". Men call me "feisty" a lot because usually, women are hesitant about giving their opinions on an issue... some women act dumb around men etc. Whereas I don't. I know that's "against" the social rules... that I "should" be stroking the guy's ego but I just don't see why I should have to. And it's this type of thing that gets me labelled in the first place.

I don't think that all men are like this by any means though... it's just that I've been around a-holes really!

I had an ex-boyfriend call me "feisty" and I actually told him flat-out that it's a sexist comment-that men are never called "feisty"... that feisty is just the equivalent of a yappy dog... a derogatory term. I won my argument flat-out and he had to concede that I was right... .Being cool (click to insert in post) But he hated me for it... resented me for correcting him like that. The socially "correct" thing would have been to laugh it off-to say "oh haha" and perhaps engage in some banter with him. But I thought "No screw this-I'm not happy with this and that's it". There's a part of me that wants to rock the boat... that thinks "look if I'm not happy, then I'm going to speak up" but I've always been criticized for this... always. Everyone else has basically told me in one form or another to like it or lump it... to get with the program... that that's the way things are blah blah blah.

At times, I've tried to fit in and be a chameleon but I've found that to be soul destroying basically...

So anyway, a focus on boundaries is a focus shift for me.  A boundary feels like a mask, I know they're different but I'm still dabbling.  And at some point we have to take the leap of courage to be vulnerable in search of that real connection, of just be vulnerable just because.  Today's version is by focusing on boundaries to begin with, I increase my changes of choosing to be vulnerable with the right people, the people I can build deep relationships with.  Processing... .

Yep-I feel like a sell out now... that I'm just going along with what everyone else wants from me instead of what I actually want.

I have realized that some people are just unsafe... destructive... that I need to have very firm boundaries around those people because they're ruthless.
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« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2013, 12:02:30 PM »

There's very few people that I really connect with deeply. I've had one friend that I've felt comfortable talking openly with... being really vulnerable. I think that type of friendship is rare... it's not the norm.

I've been working on this too.  Humans are hardwired for connection and belonging, and we don't do well without them.  Then again, real connection requires vulnerability, which requires courage, and also time. 

Does it require time? I had a lot of issues with my ex and other people who believed there was 1 definition for what love is, how to make friends. There is no 1 definition for this.

Excerpt
I'm pretty good with the courage part, I've learned that the things that really matter in life happen outside our comfort zone at first, but what I've been focusing on is building relationships slowly and having people earn the right to come inside my boundaries and see that vulnerability.  These things take time.  Blurting out a bunch of deep stuff right off the bat actually works against the forming of a bond, since it can shock people and is inappropriate.

You stated it well. It can be shocking. Doesn't have to be. Your stating it is inappropriate? That sounds very very definite. I couldn't disagree more. You could state it the other way around. You start slowly making a bond and make a certain picture with someone, and then he throws in the table he did drugs, or prostitution, or something very drastic. I've had cases, myself and what I heard from friends that the moment they confessed something (for example they cut themselves when they were younger) the supposedly 'bond' and friend for years didn't want to do anything with him anymore...

I'm not saying your's is right or mine is right. I think the gut feeling is more important in this case.

Excerpt
We can spew some social commentary that we all live fast-paced, stressed out lives, but what could be more important than slowing down and building real relationships?  I just connected with how that was a factor in me getting so "close" with my BPD ex in such a hurry, it fit with the rest of my life, little did I know... .

Whether people want to take it slow, or quickly, or somewhere in between, or even sometimes one sometimes the other, is up to them. There is no 1 way to Rome. There are millions. Slowing down has nothing to do with real relationships. Does that mean when I was working as a banker, many hours a week, with colleagues I would almost see 7 days a week, I would not be able to build a serious bond with?

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« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2013, 12:35:38 PM »

Nice musicfan, something tells me we'd get along well.  To me 'feisty' is not as much sexist as it is gender-specific, the male equivalent being 'aggressive' maybe?  Or 'brash', maybe 'outspoken', guess it depends on the context, and 'passionate' probably applies to both sexes.  And of course if we go too far a woman is labelled a 'btch' and a man an 'asshle', more gender specific labels.

I wasn't talking about love Harm, I was talking about connection, I do agree that there is no one way to Rome.  My current thoughts are coming on the heels of my BPD relationship, where we were talking about extremely intimate stuff before we had built any trust, and before we got to know each other really, and that was the wrong way.  With detachment I've learned that that is standard BPD behavior, bust through the boundaries to attach, and what it seems like to me now is just an extension of what I've always done: put myself out there, express my vulnerability, naively and with complete trust frankly, expecting the other person to reciprocate, to get having given.  Wrong.  

I think it might have been you who said another tact is to let all your boundaries down quickly and let fly, making an easy way to see who can stay in your life and who must go.  I consider that valuable with existing relationships and have actually been using it, so thank you.

The right way for me is to build a relationship, with anyone mind you, not just romantic relationships, with my boundaries intact, looking for mutual trust and mutual respect first, and as that's getting built, each of us letting our boundaries down slowly, as deeper connections get built, never losing the trust and respect.  There is no 'right' pace for that, it depends on  the situation and the folks involved, but for me it is much slower, with a focus on boundaries, than I've done in the past.
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« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2013, 12:38:31 PM »

@fromheeltoheal

Yes that was me. I lowered all my boundaries, let everyone in, and the ones I don't like, i scare away hihi 

Interesting point you wrote about trust. After my debacle with my BPD ex, trust, actual trust, flew through the window. I only believe in incentives not to hurt other people and on the basis of that, when I believe there is no incentive to lie, there is trust. Not the other way around.

Praying for you Harm, for all needs and concerns 

I emailed my ex a 6-page letter.

Note to self, don't SEND letters. Dammit. I just got a reply back. I am one helluva idiot. Why do I keep doing it? I again got devaluated SO quickly in just a few words  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).
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« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2013, 01:11:57 PM »

It's hard for me to slow down though... I find it unbelievably hard to relax...

Yes.  There are lots of ways to avoid feeling and healing: numbing, running, working, rescuing, yadda.  I spent plenty of time in my youth numbing with intoxicants, then later I discovered if I ran very fast, literally and figuratively, I could outrun my emotions, and work was always a good place to hide, as I made someone else rich.  So the answer is none of the above.  The answer is to stop and feel, don't think but feel, don't run but stop and just BE with myself.  It's hard, but it feels like whatever's on the other side will be a better life.  I actually thank my BPD for paining me to this insight.

At times, I've tried to fit in and be a chameleon but I've found that to be soul destroying basically...

Yep-I feel like a sell out now... that I'm just going along with what everyone else wants from me instead of what I actually want.

Me too, so there we go: the key I think is to live authentically, maintain strong boundaries, let them down for the right people, remove the rest.  Brand new project I never really focused on before, baby steps, but it's already getting good.  The answers were found upon exposure to a serious mental illness.  Who woulda thunk.
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