I'm hurting; would appreciate feedback.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have an anguish that is gnawing at me: statistically, do long-term early-life/core-damaged, yet socially and materially privileged VERY high-functioning BPD/narcissists change?

`

I am referring to a female who suffered long-term predatory (paternal) incest which I strongly believe survived well into adulthood! (He controlled her money/finances; along with the threat of cut-off or excommunication.) This tragedy was further compounded by the non-protectiveness of her emotionally unavailable BPD/Narcissistic mother. (Both she and her mother have long-term drug and alcohol abuse issues.)

My core question: does DBT change a deeply damaged BPD's core, their lifelong beliefs, values, expectations? Does DBT provide an empathy and selflessness that was never there? Does DBT fill the enormous hole inside of them, and teach them to trust; does it mitigate core insecurities and/or abandonment fears?

     

I have read numerous reports suggesting that while DBT helps low-functioning BPDs mitigate low-functioning BPD behaviors (i,e., suicide, parasuicide, emergency hospitalizations and even drug/alcohol abuse), it for the most part does not functionally change their internal templates.

While I know I should be focusing on my own growth and moving on, I am still soo wounded by the way she satanized and discarded me--and then moved on. Yes, I admit that a part of me is still feeding on sour grapes--to my great detriment.

I would really appreciate any feedback or insight on this issue of BPD intractability, and/or DBT effectiveness/limitations.    

[Wanna Move On]

I have an anguish that is gnawing at me: statistically, do long-term early-life/core-damaged, yet socially and materially privileged VERY high-functioning BPD/narcissists change?

`

I am referring to a female who suffered long-term predatory (paternal) incest which I strongly believe survived well into adulthood! (He controlled her money/finances; along with the threat of cut-off or excommunication.) This tragedy was further compounded by the non-protectiveness of her emotionally unavailable BPD/Narcissistic mother. (Both she and her mother have long-term drug and alcohol abuse issues.)

My core question: does DBT change a deeply damaged BPD's core, their lifelong beliefs, values, expectations? Does DBT provide an empathy and selflessness that was never there? Does DBT fill the enormous hole inside of them, and teach them to trust; does it mitigate core insecurities and/or abandonment fears?

     

I have read numerous reports suggesting that while DBT helps low-functioning BPDs mitigate low-functioning BPD behaviors (i,e., suicide, parasuicide, emergency hospitalizations and even drug/alcohol abuse), it for the most part does not functionally change their internal templates.

While I know I should be focusing on my own growth and moving on, I am still soo wounded by the way she satanized and discarded me--and then moved on. Yes, I admit that a part of me is still feeding on sour grapes--to my great detriment.

I would really appreciate any feedback or insight on this issue of BPD intractability, and/or DBT effectiveness/limitations.    

[Wanna Move On]

Why were lines overlaid on part of my posting?

[GreenMango]

I fixed it.  The strikethru font code was in there. 




To your question -  change can happen.  Dbt works.  It's more of a question if the person wants to change. 

She sounds like she has both a very traumatic past and severe issues with substance abuse.  It's a long haul.

Here'sOverview of DBT

This is an excerpt from that link:

BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER

Dialectical Behavior Therapy is based on a bio-social theory of borderline personality disorder. Linehan hypothesises that the disorder is a consequence of an emotionally vulnerable individual growing up within a particular set of environmental circumstances which she refers to as the 'Invalidating Environment'.

An 'emotionally vulnerable' person in this sense is someone whose autonomic nervous system reacts excessively to relatively low levels of stress and takes longer than normal to return to baseline once the stress is removed. It is proposed that this is the consequence of a biological diathesis.

The term 'Invalidating Environment' refers essentially to a situation in which the personal experiences and responses of the growing child are disqualified or "invalidated" by the significant others in her life. The child's personal communications are not accepted as an accurate indication of her true feelings and it is implied that, if they were accurate, then such feelings would not be a valid response to circumstances. Furthermore, an Invalidating Environment is characterized by a tendency to place a high value on self-control and self-reliance. Possible difficulties in these areas are not acknowledged and it is implied that problem solving should be easy given proper motivation. Any failure on the part of the child to perform to the expected standard is therefore ascribed to lack of motivation or some other negative characteristic of her character. (The feminine pronoun will be used throughout this paper when referring to the patient since the majority of BPD patients are female and Linehan's work has focused on this subgroup).

Linehan suggests that an emotionally vulnerable child can be expected to experience particular problems in such an environment. She will neither have the opportunity accurately to label and understand her feelings nor will she learn to trust her own responses to events. Neither is she helped to cope with situations that she may find difficult or stressful, since such problems are not acknowledged. It may be expected then that she will look to other people for indications of how she should be feeling and to solve her problems for her. However, it is in the nature of such an environment that the demands that she is allowed to make on others will tend to be severely restricted. The child's behavior may then oscillate between opposite poles of emotional inhibition in an attempt to gain acceptance and extreme displays of emotion in order to have her feelings acknowledged. Erratic response to this pattern of behavior by those in the environment may then create a situation of intermittent reinforcement resulting in the behavior pattern becoming persistent.

Linehan suggests that a particular consequence of this state of affairs will be a failure to understand and control emotions; a failure to learn the skills required for 'emotion modulation'. Given the emotional vulnerability of these individuals this is postulated to result in a state of 'emotional dysregulation' which combines in a transactional manner with the Invalidating Environment to produce the typical symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder.

Patients with BPD frequently describe a history of childhood sexual abuse and this is regarded within the model as representing a particularly extreme form of invalidation.

Linehan emphasizes that this theory is not yet supported by empirical evidence but the value of the technique does not depend on the theory being correct since the clinical effectiveness of DBT does have empirical support.

[Knowingishalf]

I get to use my joke... .

How many therapist does it take to change a light bulb.

1... .but only if it wants to change.  This is the same for everything.

[fiddlestix]

Wannamoveon,

DBT can work.  But it involves a concept that frightens persons with borderline personality disorder: COMMITMENT

My ex wife spoke of perhaps trying DBT years ago after she got out of treatment.  I recall her talking about that before I even knew what BPD was.  I knew she had bipolar and cycled up and down terribly.  I wish she would have tried it.  But she spoke of how intense it is.  My ex is a therapist herself and understands it all.  But it was just too much commitment, too intense, too much work.  Alas, her life spun further out of control and here we are filling out divorce papers. 

I have heard that DBT can be effective... .IF the person is willing to commit. 

Wannamoveon, it's best if you commit to your own healing.  You are no longer (actually, you never were) responsible for her healing.  I believe you can do it.  Your showing up here is a good sign of your commitment  

Fiddlestix