Confused and still struggling to get my head around this...

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm thinking specifically about the new Mr X (the most wonderful, loving and can't-do-no-wrong Mr X - in her eyes).

At some point in the future he will trigger her, and then the devaluation will start. Am I correct in my assumption?

Does anyone know what that trigger may be - could it be something that he does that reminds her of me, or maybe a previous boyfriend, or could it be something that is unique to him?

And why would 'just' a trigger bring devaluation? Can there be 'mild' triggers that she would brush off, or perhaps a succession of triggers... .?

If they know they are disordered, can anyone please tell me what they may be thinking when the trigger kicks in and the devaluation starts?

I'm now thinking about the three year devaluation process with me, and why she would devalue me for so long before eventually discarding me.

It seems that the trigger can be controlled in such a way that it isn't an instant discard, but more of a slow and long drawn out process.

And as I say, if they know when the devaluation starts, do they try and keep it together in the hope it gets better. Or is it more of a mercenary process, involving self-interest and self-serving, whereby they suck as much of what they need from that person before deciding that it is time to discard?

But what really confuses me is the fact that if they hate to be abandoned, why do they push people away if they get too close, almost speeding up the abandonment process, either from them devaluing and discarding, or the Non having had enough and leaving. Surely they would want someone to be close to prevent abandonment.

A few questions that I hope you more knowledgeable people can help answer for me... .

Thank you 

[houseofswans]

I'm thinking specifically about the new Mr X (the most wonderful, loving and can't-do-no-wrong Mr X - in her eyes).

At some point in the future he will trigger her, and then the devaluation will start. Am I correct in my assumption?

Does anyone know what that trigger may be - could it be something that he does that reminds her of me, or maybe a previous boyfriend, or could it be something that is unique to him?

And why would 'just' a trigger bring devaluation? Can there be 'mild' triggers that she would brush off, or perhaps a succession of triggers... .?

If they know they are disordered, can anyone please tell me what they may be thinking when the trigger kicks in and the devaluation starts?

I'm now thinking about the three year devaluation process with me, and why she would devalue me for so long before eventually discarding me.

It seems that the trigger can be controlled in such a way that it isn't an instant discard, but more of a slow and long drawn out process.

And as I say, if they know when the devaluation starts, do they try and keep it together in the hope it gets better. Or is it more of a mercenary process, involving self-interest and self-serving, whereby they suck as much of what they need from that person before deciding that it is time to discard?

But what really confuses me is the fact that if they hate to be abandoned, why do they push people away if they get too close, almost speeding up the abandonment process, either from them devaluing and discarding, or the Non having had enough and leaving. Surely they would want someone to be close to prevent abandonment.

A few questions that I hope you more knowledgeable people can help answer for me... .

Thank you 

[DragoN]

Makes two of us confused.

Stbx clearly does not love me. That's obvious. Years of abuse etc. And, now we are like ships in the night, sailing past each other with pleasantries. Very strange. Nice room mate. And, he wanted the divorce, has not said one word. But in every other action there is division. Interesting to watch and take in. So... why not simply be done with it?

Fear of abandonment. Doesn't really matter who is doing it, but he fears to be alone. When you have become the port in his storm for too long? And he gets whatever else elsewhere, why leave? For the Non? Why stay? I think my husband is a hybrid. Either that, or the walls he mirrors are really good.

[laelle]

But what really confuses me is the fact that if they hate to be abandoned, why do they push people away if they get too close, almost speeding up the abandonment process, either from them devaluing and discarding, or the Non having had enough and leaving. Surely they would want someone to be close to prevent abandonment.

This is the cruel NATURE of the BEAST called BPD - this is the best was I can explain it.

Their inner script based on their personal childhood trauma will ALWAYS lead to abandonment.  The people who were suppose to be there for them to soothe their pain while young were ABSENT physically or emotionally and it stunted their emotional growth, and thus begins the maladaptive coping skills... . Their emotional maturity ended very young and they are incomplete and broken.  They have to make do with what they pick up on the way through life. (which is no small task)

They yearn for love, but do not know what love feels like.  They were not loved.

They desire for intimacy with someone, but can't feel because they never had it.

They carry a deep self hatred and shame.

All they are left with is "pseudo interpersonal skills" picked up along the way... .that CAN NOT be sustained.

They fear future abandonment so they cling to you and idealize you using these "pseudo interpersonal skills".  They can not sustain those feelings as they do not have the ability to "truly" feel them, so you are pushed away to avoid their pain and shame triggered by the inability to "know" themselves.  You do not know what you can not learn.  They can not learn because they do not have the skills that they were suppose to learn while young, and this process failed.

So they are left emotional 3 year olds who hate you when you do not give them what they want, and love you when you make them happy.

What makes them happy begins to be more complicated as the days go by because they begin to see cracks in the idealization that they feel for you, and you do not give them the happiness anymore.  The lack of good is only bad.  You are only an object to empty their pain into, and to have their needs met.  When you fail at that, (the reasons vary) you are useless, and worthless, and all the bad feelings they have been storing up come rushing out in RAGE and VENOM.

They cling for fear or abandonment, they push away because they are faced with their brokenness when intimacy begins to form in a relationship and it is painful and shame ridden, this triggers engulfment and soon devaluation.

For you this means killing yourself trying to please someone who keeps raising the bar on what makes them happy.  You will spin your wheels until you become stuck in deep, dark hole of hopelessness.

You leave or they leave, but it always ends in abandonment because it can end no other way unless they work through those issues... .

All the love you give them can not heal them.  It enables them to survive another day of their living hell, but the end never changes.

I hope this makes some kind of sense... .

[Calm Waters]

in my experience ANYTHING that disappoints the BPD can be a trigger!

[Calm Waters]

Laell, that is such an eloquent and accurate description, exactly what I experienced and when I walked out having had enough of ' spinning my wheels' she attempted suicide and nearly succeeded, it would have destroyed me if she had succeeded I think.

[babyducks]

houseofswans,

I think laelle explained it very well:

The people who were suppose to be there for them to soothe their pain while young were ABSENT physically or emotionally and it stunted their emotional growth,

Stunted emotional growth, as I understand it, means they never learned to regulate their own emotions, never learned to self soothe, never learned to either wait out an emotional moment or talk themselves down from it.   They use external sources to regulate and control their emotions.   And they rely on us to soothe them. 

You are only an object to empty their pain into, and to have their needs met.  When you fail at that, (the reasons vary) you are useless, and worthless, and all the bad feelings they have been storing up come rushing out in RAGE and VENOM.

It was my experience that very small things would trigger my EX's fear of not getting her needs met.  If I suddenly had to work late,... even if I called and said,... I have to stay late, her reaction was akin to me cheating her out of getting something and she would react according.   She couldn't see that me staying late helped me maintain my job which paid for our lives together.

Once we went to a country fair together,  small fair, and I stopped to look at something and got separated from my Ex in the crowd.   It was a small fair, and I maybe lost sight of her for 15 minutes or so before we hooked back up.   Her reaction was profound,  first I was berated for loosing her, not being careful enough or thoughtful enough to keep track of her, and then it progressed to weeping.   An adult with a more healthy emotional range would have commented on the awkwardness of it all and then let it pass.

Does anyone know what that trigger may be - could it be something that he does that reminds her of me, or maybe a previous boyfriend, or could it be something that is unique to him?

The triggers, as I experienced them, always had to do with perceptions of loss, or perceptions of lack of care for the pwBPD.   It never had anything to do with me as the NON.  For a pwBPD, you going on a business trip could be felt as abandonment, for me and my EX, when I went to visit my family, she felt that very strongly as abandonment,  I didn't care about her, I loved some one else more than her, and the big catch, I didn't care about how badly it hurt her when I went to spend time with them.   As laelle pointed out that kind of thinking is much more like a 3 year old than a full grown woman.

The other big trigger for me and my Ex was if I said "No" to a request of hers.   Simple requests, large requests.   We wanted to buy a house together and I was dragging my feet due to the poor nature of the economy.   She viewed my dragging my feet as totally unfair,  and completely directed at me thwarting her need to be happy. 

But what really confuses me is the fact that if they hate to be abandoned, why do they push people away if they get too close, almost speeding up the abandonment process, either from them devaluing and discarding, or the Non having had enough and leaving

Its called a self fulfilling prophecy.   They are living out the same pattern over and over and over, with you as the most recent re-incarnation of their original abandonment.   Their thinking isn't "I am going to work very hard to make this relationship work",  its more along the lines of "no one every loves me enough to really understand me and care for me", which, lets face it,  is based partially on reality.   It very hard to understand why getting lost at a country fair would generate a 15 minute screaming matching UNLESS one thinks of how a 3 year old child would react to loosing her parents at a country fair.

babyducks

[Ironmanrises]

House... .

The trigger is... .

As soon as she felt... .

She was getting emotionally close... .

To you... .

And vice versa.

My exUBPDgf used to tell me... .

When we were friends... .

That she had... .

Philophobia... .

The fear of falling in love.

That was her... .

Warning to me... .

Of what was to come... .

Except... .

That was only the tip... .

Of the iceberg... .

That is BPD.

I was soon going to feel... .

The rest of that iceberg... .

Plow right through me.

In fact... .

It did so twice.

Three times... .

If you include friendship.

That trigger comes... .

With whoever they are with.

In x period of time... .

The pwBPD will... .

Dysregulate... .

And unleash... .

Rain of fire... .

On the non.

Hell on earth... .

Discard... .

Will soon follow.

A pattern of behavior.

It is inevitable.

I know it is not easy... .

To understand.

We do not operate... .

In such catastrophic ways.

We are here for you.

[houseofswans]

Thank you to all 

[EdR]

House... .

The trigger is... .

As soon as she felt... .

She was getting emotionally close... .

To you... .

And vice versa.

My exUBPDgf used to tell me... .

When we were friends... .

That she had... .

Philophobia... .

The fear of falling in love.

That was her... .

Warning to me... .

Of what was to come... .

Except... .

That was only the tip... .

Of the iceberg... .

That is BPD.

I was soon going to feel... .

The rest of that iceberg... .

Plow right through me.

In fact... .

It did so twice.

Three times... .

If you include friendship.

That trigger comes... .

With whoever they are with.

In x period of time... .

The pwBPD will... .

Dysregulate... .

And unleash... .

Rain of fire... .

On the non.

Hell on earth... .

Discard... .

Will soon follow.

A pattern of behavior.

It is inevitable.

I know it is not easy... .

To understand.

We do not operate... .

In such catastrophic ways.

We are here for you.

The bold parts... .    That's exactly it.

Of all the posts on the board, your posts are the most accurate description of what I've actually seen.

Same words, same silence.  :'(

[Learning_curve74]

Ironman hits it: eventually YOU become the trigger.

Look at the people here and how important it is to go NC, that even a simple text "hi" triggers us. There is nothing triggering about "hi", it's your BPDex that is the trigger. So it shouldn't be hard to understand that you became her trigger.

For a pwBPD feelings are facts. That means to them you WILL leave them, it's a FACT (to the pwBPD) and it's only a matter of when.

If you want to understand why somebody does something, then you have to feel and think like them. If you cannot, then you can't truly understand. And that's fine. People get hurt all the time and don't understand why the other person did it, but they are usually smart enough to get away from the person and avoid getting hurt again.

There is something about us that kept us in an unhealthy relationship, and if you can't understand your BPDex, that's ok, but it's not ok if you don't understand yourself. That's because we are all destined to repeat the same mistakes again until we learn from them. This goes for everybody, BPD or not.

I know you're hurting, swans. We all are too. Hang in there. 

[DragoN]

laelle

Great write up. Thank you.

Ironman hits it: eventually YOU become the trigger.

Once you know them inside out and backwards, seen them at their best and worst, stood by them through hell and back... .then what? Just a matter of time before one leaves.  :'(

If you want to understand why somebody does something, then you have to feel and think like them. If you cannot, then you can't truly understand. And that's fine. People get hurt all the time and don't understand why the other person did it, but they are usually smart enough to get away from the person and avoid getting hurt again.

There is something about us that kept us in an unhealthy relationship, and if you can't understand your BPDex, that's ok, but it's not ok if you don't understand yourself. That's because we are all destined to repeat the same mistakes again until we learn from them. This goes for everybody, BPD or not.

Nicely stated.

[laelle]

I do not think it is possible to know them as you say "inside and out" because they lack intimacy.  What you are seeing is the outside and a pseudo intimacy (they best they have to work with)  The fact that they will eventually implode the relationship has nothing to do with you or your support or lack of support.  Maybe the lack of support would make things much quicker. 

Their Core script is written that it will end in abandonment and there is nothing you can do to convince them differently.  They are hardwired that way, and we can not change them.  They have to change themselves. 

Turning the focus on to you... .  Do you feel that it is fair for you to sacrifice every breath of strength that you have for someone who can only pseudo love you?

Who will lie to you to hide their shame? 

Who will criticize and demean you? 

You know how the story ends ALWAYS.  Save yourself a little pain and grieve this relationship,

find some inner peace, love yourself a bit, and figure out why you were willing to "sell your soul" for someone who can not be a fair and equal partner.

 Laelle

[houseofswans]

I do not think it is possible to know them as you say "inside and out" because they lack intimacy.  What you are seeing is the outside and a pseudo intimacy (they best they have to work with)  The fact that they will eventually implode the relationship has nothing to do with you or your support or lack of support.  Maybe the lack of support would make things much quicker. 

Their Core script is written that it will end in abandonment and there is nothing you can do to convince them differently.  They are hardwired that way, and we can not change them.  They have to change themselves. 

Turning the focus on to you... .  Do you feel that it is fair for you to sacrifice every breath of strength that you have for someone who can only pseudo love you?

Who will lie to you to hide their shame? 

Who will criticize and demean you? 

You know how the story ends ALWAYS.  Save yourself a little pain and grieve this relationship,

find some inner peace, love yourself a bit, and figure out why you were willing to "sell your soul" for someone who can not be a fair and equal partner.

 Laelle

Sensible, sensible advice... . 

[living in the past]

 great thread, great post, great replys, hoping to read more replys, thanks.