I wonder what the BPD would think if...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Without explicitly telling them that they had BPD, that you told them that you would never allow them to be lonely, isolated and would never abandon them.

Would that make any difference to the devaluation dance, make them think that you were worth hanging on to, etc... .?

Just a thought 

[houseofswans]

Without explicitly telling them that they had BPD, that you told them that you would never allow them to be lonely, isolated and would never abandon them.

Would that make any difference to the devaluation dance, make them think that you were worth hanging on to, etc... .?

Just a thought 

[UmbrellaBoy]

It would make them freak out more probably. Because then, instead of abandonment fears, their engulfment fears would kick in. The abandonment/engulfment cycle makes it a no-win situation with them, because you literally cannot do anything right. Be committed, their engulfment fears appear, play distant or like you're leaving and, their abandonment fears kick in, which might cause them to make frantic efforts to get you back, only to turn around and dump you when they're engulfment fears start again (or as a "pre-emptive" abandonment).

I had a great relationship with my guy. Unfortunately, his ideal situation seemed to be riding gray-space, wanting attention and affection but with no commitment, no defining the relationship, no guarantee of permanence or exclusivity. He loved that ambivalence and set up a love triangle that allowed him to have two of us without a commitment to either. You can't win.

[EdR]

Without explicitly telling them that they had BPD, that you told them that you would never allow them to be lonely, isolated and would never abandon them.

Would that make any difference to the devaluation dance, make them think that you were worth hanging on to, etc... .?

Just a thought 

Hi houseofswans,

I think Ironmanfalls', your posts and mine contain very similar notions. Especially regarding one specific issue:

You would explain their behaviour is hurting you, or you would just send them a heartfelt message, and this is what we got and still get: silence

No closure, just nothing.


... .

well

... .

maybe not entirely nothing: only the fear that one day, when you least expect it, they'll come back. Starting the cycle all over again. Or won't you allow it?


I agree with UmbrellaBoy's take on it. Though this rational analysis hasn't been enough to stop me from sending the occassional message that I care either. :-(

Reply: silence. Just hope it put a smile on her face, and didn't trigger any other typical BPD reactions.

[mitchell16]

It would make them freak out more probably. Because then, instead of abandonment fears, their engulfment fears would kick in. The abandonment/engulfment cycle makes it a no-win situation with them, because you literally cannot do anything right. Be committed, their engulfment fears appear, play distant or like you're leaving and, their abandonment fears kick in, which might cause them to make frantic efforts to get you back, only to turn around and dump you when they're engulfment fears start again (or as a "pre-emptive" abandonment).

I had a great relationship with my guy. Unfortunately, his ideal situation seemed to be riding gray-space, wanting attention and affection but with no commitment, no defining the relationship, no guarantee of permanence or exclusivity. He loved that ambivalence and set up a love triangle that allowed him to have two of us without a commitment to either. You can't win.

I think this is right on the money. You can not win with them in any sitiution. at least thas what I found with mine. If I backed away I didnt love her enough and was losing interest in the relationship. If i came closer I was smothering her and was to controlling and I didnt want her to have a life outside of me. and it didnt just apply to being with her it was things I did for her. If i didnt save money, I was going though life without a plan. If I got a plan, then why did I have to plan everything why could i just live life. I helped her with house work I never did it correctly if I sat down and didnt help then I was lazy and never helped her. If I called her I was bothering her, if I didnt call I was ignoring her. If I didnt speak up I was a push over and needed to be a man, if I did speak up I was mean, cruel, disrepectful and why would she ever be with someone like that.

so you can never do it right with them. Not for any length of time. When she idolized me everything I did was right, I was the greatest, I was the best when the devaluing started I couldnt do anything right, breath, speak,  nothing.

[Ironmanrises]

House... .

It would make no difference.

I told my exUBPDgf... .

Of her disorder... .

Her behavior was just as awful.

Made no difference.

I told my exUBPDgf... .

That I would never leave her... .

That I would never abandon her... .

That I would always be by her side... .

I told her all the above... .

In both rounds.

I was traveling to see her 5 hours by bus... .

Weekly... .

After work... .

Dead f¥cking tired.

I tried to show her all of that... .

Through my words... .

In 4 different languages... .

I expressed my love for her... .

Through my actions... .

I made sure her and her 2 sons... .

Were provided for... .

Every time I was with her.

Her sons were bonding with me... .

You could see the look... .

In their eyes when they saw me... .

They would light up.

She saw this too.

She saw my actions.

She heard my words.

She felt my heart.

And she still left... .

Both times.

Regardless.

If I had parted my heart... .

From chest... .

And physically... .

Handed it over... .

To her.

She would have left... .

Regardless.

All of the above... .

Made no difference.

None.

Nothing.

At all.

Zero.

No effect.

It was futile.

As soon as she felt herself... .

Getting really close to me... .

In round 1... .

She left.

As soon as she felt herself... .

And her 2 sons... .

Getting close to me... .

In round 2... .

She left.

A pattern of behavior.

I never left her.

I never abandoned her.

Even knowing about her disorder... .

I still accepted her... .

Back into my life.

Made no difference.

There is no winning against that.

[DragoN]

HoS

Without explicitly telling them that they had BPD, that you told them that you would never allow them to be lonely, isolated and would never abandon them.

Would that make any difference to the devaluation dance, make them think that you were worth hanging on to, etc... .?

Turn this around and ask yourself: Why would you commit yourself to someone so completely that chose to treat you poorly?

The only way I was able to create some modicum of peace in my marriage, was to have one foot out the door. Marriage escalated the behaviors. i.e. it got much worse.

[SimplySeattle]

HoS

The only way I was able to create some modicum of peace in my marriage, was to have one foot out the door. Marriage escalated the behaviors. i.e. it got much worse.

Exactly what I learned to do in my marriage. Too close and you're abused.

[Learning_curve74]

Without explicitly telling them that they had BPD, that you told them that you would never allow them to be lonely, isolated and would never abandon them.

Would that make any difference to the devaluation dance, make them think that you were worth hanging on to, etc... .?

No.

I told my exBPDgf early on that I would never abandon her. The disorder is emotional at heart, and arguing with logic is useless. The push-pull behavior is an ingrained coping tool, it is part of the BPD repertoire of dysfunctional behaviors that gives them temporary relief from their pain but actually keeps them hurting in the long run. They can't invest in suffering in the short term to experience a long term gain, just like many children can't see past the next two minutes.

Remember the closer and more intimate you get, the harder they will push you away in the end. YOU cannot fix THEM. You can only fix yourself and accept reality.

Apologies if I'm coming off harsh. I don't mean to!

[laelle]

It would make them freak out more probably. Because then, instead of abandonment fears, their engulfment fears would kick in. The abandonment/engulfment cycle makes it a no-win situation with them, because you literally cannot do anything right. Be committed, their engulfment fears appear, play distant or like you're leaving and, their abandonment fears kick in, which might cause them to make frantic efforts to get you back, only to turn around and dump you when they're engulfment fears start again (or as a "pre-emptive" abandonment).

I had a great relationship with my guy. Unfortunately, his ideal situation seemed to be riding gray-space, wanting attention and affection but with no commitment, no defining the relationship, no guarantee of permanence or exclusivity. He loved that ambivalence and set up a love triangle that allowed him to have two of us without a commitment to either. You can't win.

I think this is right on the money. You can not win with them in any sitiution. at least thas what I found with mine. If I backed away I didnt love her enough and was losing interest in the relationship. If i came closer I was smothering her and was to controlling and I didnt want her to have a life outside of me. and it didnt just apply to being with her it was things I did for her. If i didnt save money, I was going though life without a plan. If I got a plan, then why did I have to plan everything why could i just live life. I helped her with house work I never did it correctly if I sat down and didnt help then I was lazy and never helped her. If I called her I was bothering her, if I didnt call I was ignoring her. If I didnt speak up I was a push over and needed to be a man, if I did speak up I was mean, cruel, disrepectful and why would she ever be with someone like that.

so you can never do it right with them. Not for any length of time. When she idolized me everything I did was right, I was the greatest, I was the best when the devaluing started I couldnt do anything right, breath, speak,  nothing.

ooh, this is dead on!   - the question of whether we should tell our ex partners has been dealt this many times on this forum and the overall answers are.

You are not a trained professional

They can not accept that they are wrong or flawed... .it is part of their illness, your telling her that she is ill will trigger those same bad coping skills, you will be devalued for all your good efforts and you are back to square 0  There is always a good excuse for their behavior and never a good excuse for yours... .

What is the reason exactly that you want to tell her that she is sick?  You want her to be well so you can have her again?  If she was to get well, she would likely have an entirely different personality having gained the skills she needs to function.  Your relationship was unhealthy on both of your parts, she would probably not choose to engage herself in an unhealthy relationship.

Another question that I saw here in this post is if you did not tell her right out that she was ill, that you would basically be there to support and never leave her.

What she would hear is: in idealization stage - "He is so wonderful that he will never leave me, I feel safe", triggers engulfment stage, "I feel like I cant breath always having someone understanding, I feel like I am under a microscope." triggers devaluation stage, "That stupid guy is willing to stay with me and take all my hit, what a loser",

triggers RAGE!  

Regardless of how loving you are, it will make no long term difference.  You will only feed their temporary need, but the illness persists.

They are sick and do not think like you and I do.  The reactions that a normal person would give are not the same as someone with BPD.

I have on many occasions seen my ex Cut off his nose just to spite his face, and then come crying to me that he had no nose... .and he is just fed up with it.

 Laelle