At the limit of what I will accept

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello there folks.  Today I am at the limit of what I will accept from my husband.

I started posting about some stress on October 22 and it now seems like a lifetime ago.

Here is my thread from the staying board:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211811.0

This week was mostly dyregulation with a few moments of sanity.  This morning he started getting agitated while I was making breakfast and he went into the fridge to find a half drank glass of orange juice he had left in there yesterday.  Well I had been cleaning the fridge and decided to drink it because we have lots of orange juice and needed the space.  Well he went off his head and told me that I was a RUDE AND INCONSIDERATE person because I drank his orange juice.  I tried to validate but no hope!  When he got verbally abusive I told him that he cannot act that way in front of our son and started to pack things to get out of the house.  He said 'You are destroying our son by teaching him to run away from conflict'  (actually I am teaching him not to sit around and be abused or enable abuse).

Things are getting to be too much for me.  I am having to leave the house due to verbal/ psychological abuse at least once a day for the past few weeks (before we had gotten down to a dyregulation a week with rages being RARE) but recent stress has brought the worst of BPD back on.  I had to drop our big dog back off at daycare (he was there most of last week) because my husband is using him as leverage over me.

This morning I told him that he needs to GET HELP OR GET OUT.  I have never told him this EVER in 10 years but that's where I am today.  His behavior now is threatening the emotional well-being of our son.  I told him the same.  He said NO YOU GET OUT.  I said, no the house is stability for our son, plus I am paying all the bills for the house, I won't be leaving.  He told be that he would BURN THE HOUSE DOWN RATHER THAN seeing me live in it without him.  Believe me if I thought that he was serious, I would have called the police.

He said he paid for the house and therefore its his.  I said 'no you paid for 2/3 of the house.  I paid for 1/3 and I have supported us financially for 5 yrs investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in our family.  So no he will not kick me out of my home.

I could have walked away again... .I am walking away from the conflict every single day at the moment but the difference is that I don't think that I am going to be able to protect our son from the abuse long term.  I have done EVERYTHING THAT I CAN DO for our family (boundaries, validation, etc) I have DBT specialists + a psychiatrist lined up to help if he wants it... .but even though he recognizes his illness he refuses to get help.

He called after I left leaving messages saying that I had stolen his watch and his wedding ring (he misplaced both in moments of rage).  I just can't keep going like this and my husband honestly believes that I am his problem (says my own lack of consistency is ruining him)... .but that is just a projection.  I am very consistent (at least in certain ways).

Today I am just done!

[allibaba]

Hello there folks.  Today I am at the limit of what I will accept from my husband.

I started posting about some stress on October 22 and it now seems like a lifetime ago.

Here is my thread from the staying board:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211811.0

This week was mostly dyregulation with a few moments of sanity.  This morning he started getting agitated while I was making breakfast and he went into the fridge to find a half drank glass of orange juice he had left in there yesterday.  Well I had been cleaning the fridge and decided to drink it because we have lots of orange juice and needed the space.  Well he went off his head and told me that I was a RUDE AND INCONSIDERATE person because I drank his orange juice.  I tried to validate but no hope!  When he got verbally abusive I told him that he cannot act that way in front of our son and started to pack things to get out of the house.  He said 'You are destroying our son by teaching him to run away from conflict'  (actually I am teaching him not to sit around and be abused or enable abuse).

Things are getting to be too much for me.  I am having to leave the house due to verbal/ psychological abuse at least once a day for the past few weeks (before we had gotten down to a dyregulation a week with rages being RARE) but recent stress has brought the worst of BPD back on.  I had to drop our big dog back off at daycare (he was there most of last week) because my husband is using him as leverage over me.

This morning I told him that he needs to GET HELP OR GET OUT.  I have never told him this EVER in 10 years but that's where I am today.  His behavior now is threatening the emotional well-being of our son.  I told him the same.  He said NO YOU GET OUT.  I said, no the house is stability for our son, plus I am paying all the bills for the house, I won't be leaving.  He told be that he would BURN THE HOUSE DOWN RATHER THAN seeing me live in it without him.  Believe me if I thought that he was serious, I would have called the police.

He said he paid for the house and therefore its his.  I said 'no you paid for 2/3 of the house.  I paid for 1/3 and I have supported us financially for 5 yrs investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in our family.  So no he will not kick me out of my home.

I could have walked away again... .I am walking away from the conflict every single day at the moment but the difference is that I don't think that I am going to be able to protect our son from the abuse long term.  I have done EVERYTHING THAT I CAN DO for our family (boundaries, validation, etc) I have DBT specialists + a psychiatrist lined up to help if he wants it... .but even though he recognizes his illness he refuses to get help.

He called after I left leaving messages saying that I had stolen his watch and his wedding ring (he misplaced both in moments of rage).  I just can't keep going like this and my husband honestly believes that I am his problem (says my own lack of consistency is ruining him)... .but that is just a projection.  I am very consistent (at least in certain ways).

Today I am just done!

[patientandclear]

Alli ... .I want to just buttress your instinct that this is something that needs to change for the sake of your son. I am raising a daughter whom I had with the man I was married to, not the man wBPD I am on these boards about. Her dad was verbally, emotionally & sometimes physically abusive to me, until I left when she was 2. If you want to PM about the effects of the abuse before parting versus the challenges of dealing with him as a coparent afterwards, and the longterm benefits to me as a person & mom from no longer tolerating such soul-destroying attacks on my value, I'd be glad to.

You have been heroic in your efforts. You could not give the marriage a better chance than you have.  Get help or get out -- good for you.

[allibaba]

Frankly at this point, I am open to any and all input that I can get.  I spent about an hour on the phone with the Domestic Violence shelter this morning.  I am no longer dealing with violent behavior (thank God) but they are an excellent resource.

I talked to them after I told him GET HELP OR GET OUT.

I wonder if I should have done another boundary (no swearing or ranting in front of our son... .)

I have taken so many steps and so much action - I need to protect this little boy and I feel like I am hanging onto the side of a cliff by my fingernails

And yes, I sent you a pm.  Thank you patientandclear.  I guess its pretty much time for me to get on that 'second bus'.

[KateCat]

Alli,

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by making this time the "fork in the road time." Because it seems almost certain that this is going to be a two-stage (or three-stage) process for your family. First your husband will need time by himself in order to come to his senses. Then he will need to make a decision. Next, therapy will probably need to last a few months before he is stable enough to return home. And so on . . .

So I say, "just do it." All of this tough stuff was always going to happen. And it's time for it to happen. You'll get to your goal sooner by letting it happen now.

You have so powerfully taken on board the lessons of this online community. Your husband has shown some powerful signs too of knowing he needs help. Let's all hope your experience going forward will benefit all the members of the "Staying" board.

This has got to be so tough. 

[SweetCharlotte]

I don't know what kind of violent behavior you have dealt with in the past. If you see it returning, that is a cause for concern. Other than that, the current misbehavior sounds like empty threats and accusations. You have restated the help you have prepared, but you cannot make him accept it.

I'm not good at boundaries regarding verbal misbehavior, so I'm not sure what you can do to prevent your child from hearing stuff that is not good for him. Don't you think he is aware that his Dad is dysregulating and this is not "the real him"? Usually kids begin to understand when there is BPD in the home that episodes of instability crop up. You could remind him that he is not to blame and to let it slide off his back.

Sounds like you are standing your ground, and that may be all you can do. If you are serious about the ultimatum, you shouldn't leave the house overnight. You would have to file for divorce with him still in the house, and the proceedings would determine what happens with the family home. Or, you could use his threat to burn it down to get a protection order and have him removed (or use any subsequent violence or threats of violence to have him removed). However, is that really what you want? If this is an upsurge in his stress, you might benefit from counseling to find out how you and your son could weather the storm and get through to calmer seas ahead.

[allibaba]

I don't know what kind of violent behavior you have dealt with in the past. If you see it returning, that is a cause for concern.

In the past he threw things at me, made threats to hurt dogs, punched holes in the wall and locked me out of the house, took my car keys, took my wallet.  When seriously off the rails, he has hurt me as well.  All classic DV.  Fortunately most of this (except for an outburst this summer) was before our son was born.  He knows that he can't get away with that behavior anymore.  I haven't seen any of it.  The worst that I have seen is breaking plates and bowls and none while I was in the room.  Thank God the violence hasn't returned.  In fact this is probably the first time that we have had major conflict with no violence.

Our son is less than 2 and I do explain that he's ok and that daddy is in a bad mood but its hard on him because his dad is up and down like a yo you right now.  What I am worried about is the long-term effect of these dyregulations.

[patientandclear]

Charlotte, just my view after a lot of reading & experience dealing with my abusive former H: Kids have to know that certain things are unacceptable, that at least one parent KNOWS they are unacceptable, & that that parent will do what it takes to create a safe home environment.

And the idea that words don't mean what they appear to mean, or not always, is a serious mind f*** to for a kid to shoulder.

I think Alli is right that this is the time when it is all going to start to count.

Alli, forgot I'd shared that "second bus" story earlier--thanks for remembering that detail of my own path away from abuse. I'll respond to your PM as soon as I get to a real keyboard. Like KateCat, I think a set of stark choices -- something he has to do before he gets to be with you again -- is the best chance for your H to claim the rich family life you've been trying to preserve.

[KateCat]

 Patientandclear has said what my mind has been groping to formulate. Paradoxically, Allibaba's husband may need an opportunity to experience gratitude for his pretty darn rich life and his supportive and loving wife. He cannot see it in his current state of distress.

[allibaba]

My husband has a good life (except for the demons in his head and heart).  I have basically come to the same conclusion... .Except that I think that he will continue to spiral down until the safety net has been removed and he can feel the real pain of what his life (without his wife or son).  I wish there was another way but I doubt anything else will work.

My husband told me this morning that the only reason that he stays in our marriage is the financial reasons (I pay everything).  This is a load of 'you know what' I didn't react... .But apparently he really wants to feel the bottom of the barrel... .

The base of all of this really doesn't have anything to do w me... .I have a high threshold for pain.  It has to do w the fact that I am at that critical moment where my son comes first.  It literally breaks my heart but I know what I have to do.  He's been warned. 

I am going to go back to him 1 more time and let him know that he cannot act like that in front of our little boy.  He has to act or he will experience the consequences.

[patientandclear]

OK, I'm at a real keyboard!  And will PM you too.  But here's my thought.  Your analysis that he may have to lose you to realize what he really, really needs to do, makes sense.  And the problem is, you've experienced that he can pull himself out of this sort of thing -- for a while.  But it also seems pretty well-established that he cannot stay away from this behavior, and he badly needs some tools to help with that when these feelings return--it isn't going to happen organically that he is able to resist this kind of acting out (no fault of his that it cannot happen organically.  He's struggling against real demons as you say).  You've put the tools at his feet.  But he does have to pick them up.

My concern is: you already said "get help or get out."  That's you making the executive (and I think abundantly correct) call that he isn't going to fix this sufficiently to meet your requirements for the emotional safety of your son by force of will.

So if you go & now say "one more chance," even if he doesn't get help, are you stepping on your own message?  You've concluded help is needed.  Hard to imagine anyone who's followed your story having any different view.  Are you sure you want to back away from that?

I understand if you aren't quite sure how to implement it.  The logistics are kind of a nightmare.  But instead of "if you do it again, I'm going to really mean what I just said," might you consider "I mean what I said.  I need you to leave in a week unless you have a DBT appointment and [whatever else you think is your minimum requirement]."

[allibaba]

My concern is: you already said "get help or get out."  That's you making the executive (and I think abundantly correct) call that he isn't going to fix this sufficiently to meet your requirements for the emotional safety of your son by force of will.

So if you go & now say "one more chance," even if he doesn't get help, are you stepping on your own message?  You've concluded help is needed.  Hard to imagine anyone who's followed your story having any different view.  Are you sure you want to back away from that?

I understand if you aren't quite sure how to implement it.  The logistics are kind of a nightmare.  But instead of "if you do it again, I'm going to really mean what I just said," might you consider "I mean what I said.  I need you to leave in a week unless you have a DBT appointment and [whatever else you think is your minimum requirement]."

My biggest issue here is that I have never believed in ultimatums with respect to getting help.  If someone gets help because they feel backed into a corner, its less likely to work.  They need to hit rock bottom and realize that help is the only solution.  Here I am and I have inadvertently thrown down an ultimatum.  Waverider has always said that boundaries protect you... .they don't force someone to take a particular action.  

Maybe someone can give some insight on how I get myself out of this little pickle.  I am absolutely ready to take the necessary actions to get my husband out of the house if necessary, the fact that he stated that he would burn the house down rather than let me live in it without him is particularly concerning and that in and of itself is enough to legally get him turfed out of here.

What are the behaviors that needs to stop 1.  my husband losing his mind in front of our son (even though there is minimal verbal abuse in there, the drama just isn't healthy! and 2.  the psychological games with the dogs.

Also I have been consistently walking away from abuse (ie not allowing my son to see me accepting abusive behavior) but HOLY MACKERAL this is disruptive.  With the amount of dyregulations over 2 weeks, I can't string together ANY normal time at home.  This CANNOT BE HEALTHY.  I see my son becoming clingy to daddy because he's been around our son so inconsistently (lots of time in the basement).

Yesterday I told my husband that if he gets stressed out by the dogs - we can put them into doggie daycare (occassionally to give him a break and avoid the 'all the dogs have to go' dramas).  I was trying to be helpful in removing triggering issues when appropriate and here I found myself less than 12 hours later dropping our big dog off at daycare.  My husband doing a big dramatic good bye to the dog and telling our son that he's never coming back.  Good news is that my son doesn't understand this little power play drama yet.  But its coming and its coming fast.  He'll be two in 4 months and I can just feel that I have so little time left before these family dramas effect him badly and thus the fact that "I am at the limit of what I will accept."

[allibaba]

However, is that really what you want? If this is an upsurge in his stress, you might benefit from counseling to find out how you and your son could weather the storm and get through to calmer seas ahead.

No. 

I don't want my marriage to end. 

I want my relationship to work and

I want to raise our son together because dad brings balance to mom (when he's not dyregulated). 

Fortunately I have gotten healthy enough myself that I will no longer accept a life of melodrama and abuse.  I have had PLENTY of counseling.  I am doing everything that I can to help us weather the storm... .but I don't think that this one is within my power.  If my husband chooses over and over to drag our son and I through his world of drama... .

at some point I have to say OK ENOUGH.

If I am missing some option - let me know.

[Sluggo]

allibaba,

It is crazy how things are going well and then "Bam".  The days are on fast forward and it seems that each day is really weeks of conflict rolled up into one day and then the days blur together. 

The little I do know allibaba is that you have a great foundation of clarity that you have given to others on this board (including me)... .trust your gut.  I have confidence you will make the most appropriate decision for your current situation.

Except that I think that he will continue to spiral down until the safety net has been removed and he can feel the real pain of what his life (without his wife or son)

you mentioned that your husband needs to hit rock bottom... What has been his safety net?... what would rock bottom look like for him? 

[allibaba]

The little I do know allibaba is that you have a great foundation of clarity that you have given to others on this board (including me)... .trust your gut.  I have confidence you will make the most appropriate decision for your current situation.

Thank you All4BVM that is very kind of you.

Except that I think that he will continue to spiral down until the safety net has been removed and he can feel the real pain of what his life (without his wife or son)

you mentioned that your husband needs to hit rock bottom... What has been his safety net?... what would rock bottom look like for him? 

His safety net for over a decade has been me and my consistency emotionally with him.  He only really became mentally ill about 5 yrs ago... .but I have consistently been there for him (no matter how bad the rage - no matter how long the dyregulation) I am always there to love him and accept him unconditionally after he comes back to normal.  Initially it was as a doormat and now after learning about boundaries it has been after enforcing boundaries.  Also, my husband has basically become spoiled.  He has all the nice things in life and doesn't have to work for them.  I have always believed that if we (as a family) have enough then he should have nice things... .but its gone overboard.  He's done minimum wage jobs for 4 yrs despite his champagne taste.  I have battled to balance a professional career in upper management of a high tech co and my BPD home for years.  I have done a good job and have continued to provide.

So in summary - rock bottom would be true loneliness.  He always comments that I am the only person who is always 'there for him'.

And rock bottom would be financial reality. 

And rock bottom would be (most importantly) being responsible for himself.  I've been handing responsibility back slowly over the last 7 months... .but this would take the training wheels off.

[waverider]

Sorry to see you back at this stage again. Is this the beginning of the end or just another crisis that can be worked through, who knows? The response is still the same, and time will tell.

You left once before, your husband part learned a lesson (and forgotten it) and you learned a lot in the process. You cannot lesson your consequences. Unless you have real means of getting him out of the house your boundary will remain as a demand. If you cannot get him out them you will have to leave, for a prolonged period this time. As you say, you and your son both need stability and some sort of functionality,  this constant back and forth is not working.


You really need to stay away until not only agreement to treatment, but actual progress is made. Otherwise you will be back here again quickly. Even during treatment, if he attends, times will still be rocky.

Is your requirement that he undergoes treatment too harsh? Not really because that is what your heart is telling you. It is not a knee jerk comment, you have thought about this. Boundaries are not about what is fair, they are about what YOU need to be able cope. So they are different for everyone. Even if he complies that doesn't mean things will become tenable either. But it is a realistic start.

If you can't get him to leave I realize there will be financial and logistical issues, but they will have to wait until down the track. The dynamics that are happening now are transitional, and the first goal is to find a safe and stable environment.

He needs to know the full consequences of your absence, not just his perception that he doesn't need you. His avenue of projection as soothing needs to be cut off. That will only happen if he is left totally responsible for everything that happens around him, and that may take a while.

Wishing you all the best with your efforts

Waverider

[waverider]

 Waverider has always said that boundaries protect you... .they don't force someone to take a particular action.  

In this case it is to protect you, because you have reached the stage where it is important to you. No, you can't make him do treatment, but you can no longer live knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel. You cannot continue this way, so if he doesn't do therapy, and he may not, you have come to a point you can't continue.

[patientandclear]

Seconding what Waverider said, and also: I know it feels like you requiring him to leave or alternatively you leaving, for a protracted period, until he is underway in therapy & there is progress, is a step away from him, but really, I think your instinct is right that it is the best hope your relationship has of succeeding.  You don't want to get to the point where there is just too much damage & too much water under the bridge to consider continuing on, & I have to think that could happen the way things are currently going.

[waverider]

  You don't want to get to the point where there is just too much damage & too much water under the bridge to consider continuing on, & I have to think that could happen the way things are currently going.

Agreed serious space away is a safety fuse before this escalates whereby it may end up in DV, or at least deteriorates to the point where something happens that makes it irretrievable.

Another band aid is not going to stop the bleeding for long.

[allibaba]

Once again, truly truly excellent input here.

Thank you waverider on clarifying regarding the boundaries.  I feel better now because - everything inside of me is screaming - this isn't going to work if he doesn't get professional treatment.  The only time I left (MAY I think), I left for a short period of time and promised that I would return.  This is the first time that I have stated to him that our relationship is in danger if he doesn't take action.  Back in MAY it would have been the wrong path (forcing separation), I still had a lot of work that I needed to do on myself IN THE RELATIONSHIP (speaking my truth, standing up for myself).

To be honest, at this point I don't think us being in the same house even WITH him doing therapy is the right answer.  I think that he needs to experience life without me on a regular basis to truly start healing - even being healthier I am still his GO TO CRUTCH.

And yes, I find myself here again... .but here are the positives.  Last time, every time something happened, I reached for a beer (not a lot of them, but it was a consistent reaction).  I was shaking and scared and crying uncontrollably.  Tonight I am calm, I am nursing a bottle of water and I haven't cried once because in my heart regardless of the outcome I know what to do.  I took my son to the office and he and I had a productive day catching up on some work

If my husband can't leave, I can extricate him from the house either through the family courts, through the police, or maybe even by getting a few of his nastier uncles to pay a visit (they would turf him out on his @ss before he could blink).  None of the options are ideal, but I'll figure it out.  I'd only use the police option in an extreme case... .the lawyer option is a good one and he would HATE the uncles option but it would have the least permanent record effect

[waverider]

Good to see you are at least keeping your wits about you. You don't have rush anything, a consistent and calm approach is what is required now, at least for your sons stability. Any sort of pandemonium is possible from your husband but you can't control that. He will probably have to go through that before he is even back at the stage where he even thinks about the reality of addressing the situation.

It will take time, no matter what the future holds

[eeyore]

I'm coming in late to this thread.  Good for you for putting the best interest of your son first.  I love that you recognize that exposure at the youngest ages can have a lasting if not lifelong affect on children. 

[KateCat]

I hate to suggest such an expensive option, but is there any chance you could rent a modest apartment (suitable either for you + son or for your husband alone, depending on how the situation played out)? Some of the other options sound kind of scary and unpredictable.

There have been encouraging stories posted on bpdfamily.com over the years about relationships that came to the point you have now reached and then changed for the better with a partner choosing serious self-examination and therapy. (Posts by "John Galt" are a good example, I think.) There have also been darker tales where a desperate, dysregulated partner has indeed resorted to arson or great physical violence, including attempted strangulation. (The number of hands-around-the-throat episodes recounted have really surprised me.)

If there's an option other than having your husband removed from the home, that might preserve everybody's physical and mental well-being at this time of great stress.

[SweetCharlotte]

Katecat, I don't think a modest apartment would be enough for her, the child, and the (4?) dogs, one of which is a very big dog. I'm a little concerned about the dog situation. This seems to be a stressor on the marriage. Was the H consulted about the acquisition of each dog, and was he in agreement?

If he is ill—both physically and mentally—and unemployed, and a new-ish father, and his wife has taken to stocking up on dogs, that is bound to make him blow his stack. Ali B. can't move out because it would be hard to find a place that would accommodate this whole crew. Moving out could also back-fire, because the H might decide that he enjoys the peace and quiet. It has happened to more than a few who say, "I'll move out and show him; he'll miss me, and want me back so much that he will gladly agree to my terms." It doesn't always work out that way. On the other hand, if she forces him out with a court order, he will harbor such bitterness that he will be unlikely to give in to her demands that way either.

Are the dogs a non-negotiable, Ali, or would you be willing to give them up to see whether your husband can cope with daily life better without them? I'm not sure how recently they entered the situation, whether it was one by one or en masse, and to what extent your husband agreed to having them. However, it sounds to me, at least intuitively, that the dogs have pushed things to the crisis/boiling/breaking point.

[NoSocks]

Hi Ali. I believe you and I spoke at different times on the Stay board. I had a different handle then... .my H started reading my posts so I needed to change it. I feel for your situation. I am now in the process of emotionally detaching for good. I have left my H and have moved in with relatives. I believe the only thing that has changed this time as I have left many tomes before... .including going to the shelter... .is both him and I sat down with a councilor and a pastor and they couldn't believe what they saw. They saw him not answer their questions directly and totally blamed me for everything. They saw him twist things and then to top things off say that he believe I had some kind of PD. For which every professional tells me I don't. Like you, I have brought about the help he is able to access at any time as well as the couples therapy that is waiting to continue when he starts in his own indivudual therapy. He is choosing not to do much. But the real kicker for me is that I am a few hundred dollars short of making my ends meet, and have asked him if he would help. He's totally in the position of helping... .money in the bank... .consistent job. Where as I'm in such a state from being with him doing the roller coaster every single day my mind isn't really allowing me to get the job I know I should be able to get. And yet he doesn't want to help. I feel I completely opened myself up to ask for the money... .he has been telling me he wants to take care of me be a good husband... .and yet he tells me I should be able to make my own money and go out and get a job. This pretty well devistated me. I am trying. I have gone to one interview... .daily working on finding work. And he knows this... .but it doesn't change anything... .it's just him AGAIN not being there when I need him... .and further to that insulting me by basically saying I using him for money. He says one thing and does another. This was for the last time. Nothing is going to change this individual. And if there happens to be an awareness on his part... .getting help will happen so slowly ... .that I'm just not prepared to be his punching bag anymore. I deserve so much better... I too have done everything I can to have help right there for him... .deep down in my heart I'm done. Just like you.  But, really done. I reached a point where my feelings are moving on... .I have to meet my practical needs and in a way that is so below where I should be while his has improved and is in a better place than before we met. This is what is bringing about the change this time... .he is never going to see big R-reality. I need to stop me from going backward. But as I said it was the validation of others, moving out and telling him that I didn't know how things were going to end up and the fact that his family enables his behavior and trreats me horribly. All of that is what did it.

[GreenMango]

Maybe it may help to review the structure of a therapeutic separation and what it entails.

Heres a bit from the workshop with the link (just click the blue text and it should take you there):

Therapeutic Separation - Restarting the Relationship

Sometimes the bad habits of the relationship are so ingrained on a day to day basis that recovering from within the current living situation is nearly impossible. Many couples hang in there hoping for the best and when it doesn't come, end up in a divorce that neither may have really wanted.

There is an alternative - therapeutic separation - members here have had varying levels of success and failure with this. The goal of this workshop is to talk about:

1) When does a therapeutic separation make sense

2) How is best managed

3) What are the tricks and the traps

As an overview and to help start the discussions, I have briefly summarized Therapeutic Separation below:

Goal: To reinvigorate a broken relationship that has been damaged by stress, work, children or other distractions. Involves counseling and both parties seeking to improve the marriage. Also, can serve a way to experience that harsh reality of what a divorce would feel like before jumping directly to divorce. Distinct from a Trial Separation, where the goal is to test out separation, not to renew the relationship.

Term: Three months to one year, although more than six months may lead to increased distance in the relationship.

Structure: The terms of a therapeutic separation are highly flexible and are initiated by the therapist and agreed to by the couple.  The only required terms are that both parties are in solo counseling during the separation and that there is a set end where the couple agrees to come back together.  Therapeutic separation can begin with a period of NC (no contact) to allow both sides to have a break, heal and grow before starting interactions.  After the NC period, the remaining interactions are limited to “dates”, often weekly, where the couple can get together rediscover the positive aspects of their relationship.  Problem solving during dates is discouraged in order to prevent further harm.  The dates are usually followed by joint therapy sessions where communication and negotiation skills can be learned and any problems with the date may be addressed.

Living Arrangements: Couples may choose to have one member move out for the term of the separation, or rent an apartment and take turns switching who lives in the marital residence—especially if children are involved.  However, if the separation turns to a divorce proceeding, the person living in the house at that time will likely be allowed to remain there.

Custody: Custody is negotiated up front and can take any acceptable form. 

Finances: The goal of this type of separation is to come back together, so finances are often agreed to be handled as usual. This should be expressly agreed to however to make sure one spouse does not take this opportunity to clean out the bank accounts.  There are no legal obligations regarding disposal of assets during a therapeutic separation, so anything can happen.

Risks:
-The break caused by the separation may help one the parties disconnect and actually accelerate the end of the relationship.
-A pwBPD may see the separation as abandonment and sink deeper into their condition rather than improve, or act out in unpredictable ways.
-If the TS does not succeed and the couple heads to divorce, any terms agreed to in the separation could have an impact on the divorce settlement.  This could provide critical in custody and home possession issues.

References:
<a href="www.davismintun.com/2007/01/therapeutic-separation-for-couples.html" target="_blank">www.davismintun.com/2007/01/therapeutic-separation-for-couples.html[/url]
<a href="www.marriagemissions.com/to-stay-or-not-to-stay/" target="_blank">www.marriagemissions.com/to-stay-or-not-to-stay/[/url]

[SweetCharlotte]

Feeling too ignorant to be expressing so many opinions on your situation, Ali B, I read one week's worth of your past posts.

Your H has beaten you on two occasions. Recently he has threatened to "cave your head in." He has played football, almost to the point of making a professional team. He may well have brain damage from repetitive head trauma, a common ailment of football players that can make them impulsive and violent. Many of these guys unfortunately become unemployable and unfit for relationships. They over-spend and cannot manage their finances. They often wind up committing suicide.

Regarding the dogs, they are near the crux of the issue I feel, yet they are not the issue. You will not get rid of them because they make you feel safe. Your H cannot stand their presence because they are a constant reminder that he has failed as a husband. He is no longer your protector; you need protection FROM HIM.

At first I thought this was just an upsurge in his stress complicating his BPD, and that removing the dogs might placate him. After reading your back posts, I see it is worse than that. I would not encourage you to weather this storm or look to calmer seas ahead. The only smooth sailing you will find will be with someone else, or on your own for a while with your son. I know that it hurts to give up the dream of raising your little man alongside his father. However, as you have said, what's going on now is not healthy. I would have him removed from the home based on his latest violent act or violent threat. Even though it means a criminal record for him, he is not employable anyway as it stands. I would not be focused on getting him help so that you two can work things out. This type of head injury, sad to say, does not respond to therapy.

[waverider]

This type of head injury, sad to say, does not respond to therapy.

Can't make assumptions above what is causing this downturn in menatakl state.

Ali must stick to the facts and principles, and they are that the behavior of late is unhealthy for herself and son, both mentally and physically. No matter the cause. As a result steps need to be taken to protect themselves from it until such time as there is real and ongoing improvement. Whether this be short term, long term or permanent remains to be seen, and ultimately is up to her husband

[Surnia]

I am late her too

So sorry to hear all this Allibaba! Its really a tough situation for you and your son. 

May I ask you about what kind of advise the DV center gave you?

[allibaba]

Wow I went to sleep for 11 hrs and things went crazy on this post.   and thank you for caring.  The 'softest pillow is a clear conscious' and I slept very well last night.

I think (once again) that waverider is right.  Nothing needs to happen quickly.  Stability is what is important for all of us.  My husband has removed all of his mother's jewelry from my jewelry box and put away all the gifts that I have given him.  I don't know what the logistics will be but I was very clear yesterday that the relationship will not continue as it is.  I am not in any danger from DV here as long as I am careful.  Thank you GreenMango.  Yes we need a therapeutic separation.  Hopefully it is clear to everyone here that I am still fighting for my marriage.

Katecat, I don't think a modest apartment would be enough for her, the child, and the (4?) dogs, one of which is a very big dog. I'm a little concerned about the dog situation. This seems to be a stressor on the marriage. Was the H consulted about the acquisition of each dog, and was he in agreement?

If he is ill—both physically and mentally—and unemployed, and a new-ish father, and his wife has taken to stocking up on dogs, that is bound to make him blow his stack.

********

Are the dogs a non-negotiable, Ali, or would you be willing to give them up to see whether your husband can cope with daily life better without them? I'm not sure how recently they entered the situation, whether it was one by one or en masse, and to what extent your husband agreed to having them. However, it sounds to me, at least intuitively, that the dogs have pushed things to the crisis/boiling/breaking point.

Sweet Charlotte - its not the dogs.  Its my husband's incredibly difficult eating situation that is 'eating at him' - excuse the pun.  He's got a high metabolism, gluten intolerant, and diabetic (in addition he can't eat perservatives due to the fact that it triggers his rheumatoid).  If there is one issue here... .that is it.

Most of these things are actually related to the gluten (gluten causes violent mood swings in those that are intolerant.  It also shuts down the immune system (rheumatoid and diabetes are autoimmune diseases).  He refuses to go gluten intolerant because he is a picky eater and despite the consequences - HE DOESNT WANT TO.

Our dogs are 11 yrs old - 5 yrs old in age and we have had all of them since a young age.  The big dog that he keeps wanting to get rid of is HIS DOG, he wanted him and we've had him for YEARS!  They aren't the issue and I have provided plenty of solutions to address his stresses around the dogs.  He keeps ranting and raving about them going to the bathroom in the house, destroying things, throwing up.  None of these things have actually happened since Sept when our oldest ate a frog and got sick as a result!  Our dogs are perhaps some of the most well behaved and amazing beings on the planet.  Smart, protective, loving.  They are not being given away because my husband can't make the adult decision to get himself help (or just stop eating gluten).

Post trying out for NFL my husband had a career in corporate banking, started an entire profitable business for a co, and then started the same business for himself.  This is not a case of brain damage due to 'head injury' (though I know that its big in the news at the moment and I am a HUGE NFL fan and am familiar with a lot of those cases).

NoSocks, I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.  Good luck!

Sweet Charlotte, I haven't seen any aggressive behavior at me in a long time.  He threatened to 'cave my head in' at the beginning of this journey.

The DV center rep said that she agrees with my gut, I can't continue to expose my son to the instability.  Even a couple of weeks of this has been affecting him.  She also agreed that while I have drastic tools at my disposal that I didn't need to use them unless necessary.

Its been quite quiet here this morning.  My husband got up and told me that he was taking our son to breakfast.  I said ok and then he said... .no you keep him and left. I'm sure he'll be back and I am going to carry on with our day here!

[KateCat]

Alli, I'll just up and say it: I don't think you should be alone with your husband at this time.

It's very seductive to believe that you have some ability to affect this situation, some power to control outcomes. (The "no gluten" solution may be an aspect of that thinking.)

But he's under great stress, and if he blows, you're the target. Not a boss, not another male, not a co-worker. There's just you, and your son, and your dogs.

Surnia mentioned the local DV professionals. How about full disclosure of the past and present dangerous behaviors to them. And following their advice to the letter even if it goes against your current thinking.

Safety for your family is paramount. It's everything else that can "wait." Not that.