Can't rely on my dad either

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I've cut off contact with my uBPDm, but I recently tried communicating with my dad, who is still married to my mom. I feel like this is a mistake. One day he will be understanding and behave the way you'd hope a father would. Then the next day he will call me up and say he's going to stop calling me until I apologize to my mother.

Bear in mind, aside from not communicating with her, I have nothing rational to apologize for. She's the one who threatened my dad if he came to my wedding last month. None of my family came. They've given me nothing, aside from heartache and grief, in years. I've quit letting her control my life and she doesn't like it and she wants me to come running back to her. I'm not willing to do that.

I wish there was a way to have a relationship with my dad, but I can't take his flip flopping. All it takes is one conversation with my mom, and his opinion of me changes.

Is avoiding both of them the only answer?

[Justme1]

I've cut off contact with my uBPDm, but I recently tried communicating with my dad, who is still married to my mom. I feel like this is a mistake. One day he will be understanding and behave the way you'd hope a father would. Then the next day he will call me up and say he's going to stop calling me until I apologize to my mother.

Bear in mind, aside from not communicating with her, I have nothing rational to apologize for. She's the one who threatened my dad if he came to my wedding last month. None of my family came. They've given me nothing, aside from heartache and grief, in years. I've quit letting her control my life and she doesn't like it and she wants me to come running back to her. I'm not willing to do that.

I wish there was a way to have a relationship with my dad, but I can't take his flip flopping. All it takes is one conversation with my mom, and his opinion of me changes.

Is avoiding both of them the only answer?

[Clearmind]

Justme, often the partner of a Borderline is very co-dependent and can be blind sighted to their issues. They simply don’t see it the way you do.

Co-dependents don’t have good boundaries and tend to be limitless themselves. This is not your fault however it really does help to understand the co-dependent/BPD dynamic. Trust me I have dated Borderlines and I do get how hard it was to see reality back then.

Justme, as hard as it is, can you begin to focus more on your life, new life with your partner and your future. We can expend so much energy on our BPD parent, co-dependent/enabling “other” parent and negate our needs.

I understand that you want to feel heard however we also need to except that there are major limitations and a big gap between what they can provide and what you want.

Avoiding Dad is not necessarily the only solution. However Dad needs strong boundaries too.

Dad: Justme, I want you to apologize to your mother for x,y,z

Justme: Dad I have nothing to apologize for and if you wish to punish me via silent treatment then that is a shame. I had hoped we could have a relationship free of drama. When you are ready to talk rationally about x,y,z I am open to discussion - howeverif the discussion involves casting blame I cannot participate.

Then my friend – you carry on with your life, begin to work on the need for validation from your folks who probably had difficulty giving it to begin with – not because they don’t love you its because they have no idea how to manage conflict, heightened emotions and intense feelings. Its not your fault – don’t turn it into your fault.

[Justme1]

Thanks for your advice, Clearmind. I like the conversation example you shared, and will most likely use that if I decide to respond to him at all.

I do want to move on with my life. In many ways I have. During the weeks when I don't have any communication with them, I find that I'm more relaxed and happier. But then I'll get the urge to talk with him, and inevitably, it leads to more pain.

It's a work in progress. Thank you for your suggestions!

[Clearmind]

It certainly is a work in progress and once I realised what I was up against with my father it took a good year of working with boundaries and upholding them….yes and some pain!

In situations like this avoid the need to justify and explain and defend - instead set you boundary very clearly about what you need and what will happen if those needs are not met. It will be met with resistance - many of us don't like limits however you are an adult with privileges and you deserve respect.

[WiseMind]

Justme, I understand. My dad is still married to uBPD mom and I find it difficult to have any sort of meaningful relationship with him. We mostly talk very superficially when we do talk, which is maybe once a month.

I experienced my dad try to get me to apologize to my mom for something and had a similar conversation that Clearmind outlined. This resulted in silent treatment for about 6 months. I was in therapy to help me deal with this and it was not easy but I feel good that I stood up for myself and my values. It doesn't mean though that I don't battle FOG daily and struggle with my lack of relationship with either of them, which I know isn't any fault of my own. Anyway, I feel like we have some similar situations and I completely empathize with you and what you are going through. 

-WM

[Justme1]

It's nice to know you've been through this too, WM, an that my feeling are normal. I like to think that we're stronger people because of what we've been through, and due to the continuing challenges that we face. Thank you for your input!

[Sitara]

Just want to let you know you're not alone.  In my father's case, I get the impression his mother was BPD so he ended up marrying a PBD and thinks that this type of behavior is completely normal and acceptable.  He never calls and he once told me it is just how the parent/child relationship works is that the child is the one who always has to call because that's what he had to do with his parents.  He's so under my mom's thumb that I don't think there's a way to have a relationship with him without her interference.  I may someday want to try to have a relationship with him but I'm definitely not in a place where I'm ready to attempt that yet.

[WiseMind]

Sitara, I have always felt like this too. I can't believe someone else brought this up; it is such a relief to know I am not alone. Ever since I went limited contact with my mom (and by extension, my dad), I have had very little contact at all. It seemed like I was the one who did most of the initiating of contact. I wonder if that was the same way for them and their parents. I simply thought they either 1) just did not even think about initiating contact with me unless necessary or 2) didn't have any interest in having contact with me.

[Justme1]

It seems to be a common theme amongst the three of us that we're the ones who usually initiate contact. If I didn't call my dad, it would be months between phone calls. But this isn't unique to my dad. Unless I call them, no one in my extended family would ever call me. Albeit, I've always had a somewhat distant relationship with them due to my BPDm.

I wish it wasn't the case, but I just thought it was normal... .

[MovingOnInMyLife]

Is avoiding both of them the only answer?

Yes.

You have to think of your dad as dis-ordered, just like your BPD mom. (People with serious issues attract other people with serious issues. So if your dad is with your mom, he has some serious issues of his own. In fact, his own mother might have been BPD and that was why he was attracted to your mom in the first place. Just because she is the one with a personality disorder doesn't mean he doesn't have his own issues! You can't think of him as the sane one.)

Your dad has to live with your mom, day in and day out, and we all know how hard it is to live with a BPD person. So your dad taking her side against you is just one of his defense mechanisms. He flip flops because there are times where he realizes the crazy and wants someone on his side; on those days, he's on your side.

I'm sorry you can't rely on your dad, either. In a lot of ways, that feels almost worse since he is the "sane" one whom you feel you should be able to rely on. But the sooner you realize they are both sick, the sooner you will be able to heal yourself and move forward. Your dad wouldn't stay with your mom if he wasn't disordered in some way himself.

You have to start parenting yourself. Your parents don't know how to give you what you need. You will continue to feel disappointed and upset if you wait around for them to give you what you deserve, need and want. They simply never will. They can't give you what they don't have. And they simply don't have the skills to be good parents to you.

I'm so sorry. That's the cross we have to bear as the children of BPD parents. It's unfair but we learn to heal and become strong.

Have you read "Understanding the Borderline Mother" by Christine Lawson? It is very helpful, and there is a whole section on fathers who are the husbands of BPD mothers. Another excellent and very helpful read is "Surviving a Borderline Parent" by Roth, Fridman and Kreger. I can't recommend reading these books enough.

[Suzn]

Is avoiding both of them the only answer?

There is rarely ever only one solution to conflict. (Unless your life is in danger) I'm really sorry to hear your parents didn't attend your wedding, that had to be really painful for you.   

Clearmind has a good point, boundaries are your best friend here. It is absolutely ok to put the ball in your Dad's court when he becomes demanding about an apology that isn't owed. First of all, your Dad is demanding this of you because he is uncomfortable with his situation. And his situation is not being able to cope (or self sooth) when he feels uncomfortable with his environment. The flip flopping is about trying to control his own environment, which sounds chaotic. If you would only apologize his environment with your mother would calm down and his anxiety would subside.

You do not have to solve this for him. You can give it back to him to solve. A bare bones example of SET

S-Dad I'm sorry you are upset.

E-I have been in your shoes and I know how chaotic things can feel when mother is upset.

T-I can't fix this for you by apologizing. I do not owe an apology. I do not feel comfortable discussing mom/the argument/our (mom and myself) issues with you. As always, I am open to talk about other things going on in your life.

This is inline with Step 7 in the Survivors Guide on the right side of your screen>>

I can sense my inner child whose efforts to survive now can be appreciated.

REMEMBERING [Step 7]: This step involves turning inward, away from the violence and pain of your abuse, to reach inside to your inner child and begin learning how to nurture and develop this vulnerable part of yourself. This is both a grieving and healing step, because what you give now to this child will be restorative and fulfilling and will form the foundation upon which you can build other changes as you work the later steps. This is also a step that will help you recognize and acknowledge your childhood efforts to survive the abuse.

By now, you know pretty much what happened to you, who did what and how you felt about it. It is now time to continue the work you began in Step Five by forgiving yourself for any of the millions of reasons that you may have used to blame yourself for the abuse. Working this step means further identifying and challenging these inaccurate and outdated notions and modifying your perceptions, based on your new understanding of your childhood experience. Along the way you need to appreciate and validate yourself for having survived the abuse. As you accept what happened to you and who really was responsible, you will inevitably become more and more accepting of yourself and the child within you.

As you develop self-acceptance, you may notice that your relationships begin to improve. Accepting yourself may make it easier for others to accept you. If you haven't yet had this experience, you will be pleasantly surprised. Allow yourself to share these new feelings about yourself with people you care for and trust. Look for acceptance and understanding, and if you don't get it, ask for it. Let this vulnerable part of you explore being dependent and intimate with someone and see if you can feel trust starting to build. If you feel afraid, try to figure out why and share your thoughts with this person.

Hope this helps.