Broke No Contact Rule. But... (you tell me) I have mixed feelings

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I got divorced this last Thursday from my BPDwife.

Her parting words were "that if only i trusted her that she loved me, as apposed listening to everyone else lies about her... our marriage would have survived".

I will not bore you with all the things my ex wife accused me of during the marriage. I followed the pattern of idealization before marriage and painted black ever after.

Our therapist told me that she has BPD and i should get out.

The following is our email exchange today. I broke the no contact rule.


Me to BPDexwife:

1.   Do not come to my house

2. I know you were unfaithful because you told me you were unfaithful. And if you lied, you're something worse than that.

BPDex to me.

I did not come into ur house, nor would I.

The stuff are urs. I wanted you to have them.

Without going through a whole ordeal.

So I dropped them off.That simple.

I did love u. Wholeheartedly.

I am so sorry u chose not to believe or accept that.

I am sorry for many many things.

I am not sorry for something that I never did.

I left our marriage with many regrets.

None of which was in any way my being inappropriate in any way with another man.

From when we started dating , until today.

You were the only man I was involved with.

I cannot undo ur past. Nor ur pain.

And I'm truly sorry ur pain is leading u to believe and spread stories that arent true.

We both don't deserve that.

Me to BPDexwife:

Take responsibility for what u said.

Forget, the world. You and only said so many things that were not true.

If u did not have an affair. Why did u  me that you did.

And when I asked you for how long. You and only u said. For the last 8 weeks.

This is useless. You will never be honest with me or yourself.


BPDex to me.

This is the last time I will tell you.

You meant the world to me.

And I did not, did not, ever ever do anything with another man.

I would never have jeopardized what I had hoped we would have or be.


Me to BPDexwife:

Simple question: why did u say that u were having an affair if it was not true.

Just be honest.

BPDex to me.

I did not have an affair.

I did not do anything with another man while I dated or was married to you.

Believe as you wish.


Me to BPDexwife:

I'm not saying that I don't believe you I'm asking you why did you tell me that you had an affair if it wasn't true


BPDex to me.

I can't help what you chose/choose to believe.

I had nothing to hide from you.

Other than how much pain I was in.

I don't know what your looking for Yossi.

I do know I couldn't give it to you.

If therapist is willing to meet with us... .

And u want to.

I will.

(Going to be up front, and tell u, I cannot afford to pay for it though.)

Me to BPDexwife:

I accept the fact that you were in pain I accept the fact that you were unhappy and you want it out of the marriage I just want to know why did you lie to me

BPDex to me.

I was faithful. I was dedicated.

And I never ever cheated on u.

Me to BPDexwife:

In my heart I believe u.

I am asking u why you told me  in our bedroom you we're having an affair for the past 8 weeks.

Why?

END OF EMAILS

It felt good to hold a mirror up to her and insist that she answer why she said she was having an affair.

It felt very good to see that she refuses to accept any responsibility for her actions.

What she did/said was horrible.

my therapist told me that she does not have the ability to see her own actions in a negative light.

I asked her one simple question.

I asked it 5 times.

Each time, she refused to answer the question.

Refused to see what a horrible things she did.

This is the confused hell i lived with for 15 months.

I truly see, i could not have fixed this.

I did not cause this in her, I could not change her.


P.S.

I do (a bit)  questions my motives. Perhaps I am enjoying the interaction as a co-dependent? Perhaps I am still trying to show her the "light" and fix her? Perhaps I want her her to feel.  Internalize her horrible actions and feel pain? How does any of this help me in the long run?

I am glad that this will (hopefully) be how this relationship ends.

[samthewiss]

I got divorced this last Thursday from my BPDwife.

Her parting words were "that if only i trusted her that she loved me, as apposed listening to everyone else lies about her... our marriage would have survived".

I will not bore you with all the things my ex wife accused me of during the marriage. I followed the pattern of idealization before marriage and painted black ever after.

Our therapist told me that she has BPD and i should get out.

The following is our email exchange today. I broke the no contact rule.


Me to BPDexwife:

1.   Do not come to my house

2. I know you were unfaithful because you told me you were unfaithful. And if you lied, you're something worse than that.

BPDex to me.

I did not come into ur house, nor would I.

The stuff are urs. I wanted you to have them.

Without going through a whole ordeal.

So I dropped them off.That simple.

I did love u. Wholeheartedly.

I am so sorry u chose not to believe or accept that.

I am sorry for many many things.

I am not sorry for something that I never did.

I left our marriage with many regrets.

None of which was in any way my being inappropriate in any way with another man.

From when we started dating , until today.

You were the only man I was involved with.

I cannot undo ur past. Nor ur pain.

And I'm truly sorry ur pain is leading u to believe and spread stories that arent true.

We both don't deserve that.

Me to BPDexwife:

Take responsibility for what u said.

Forget, the world. You and only said so many things that were not true.

If u did not have an affair. Why did u  me that you did.

And when I asked you for how long. You and only u said. For the last 8 weeks.

This is useless. You will never be honest with me or yourself.


BPDex to me.

This is the last time I will tell you.

You meant the world to me.

And I did not, did not, ever ever do anything with another man.

I would never have jeopardized what I had hoped we would have or be.


Me to BPDexwife:

Simple question: why did u say that u were having an affair if it was not true.

Just be honest.

BPDex to me.

I did not have an affair.

I did not do anything with another man while I dated or was married to you.

Believe as you wish.


Me to BPDexwife:

I'm not saying that I don't believe you I'm asking you why did you tell me that you had an affair if it wasn't true


BPDex to me.

I can't help what you chose/choose to believe.

I had nothing to hide from you.

Other than how much pain I was in.

I don't know what your looking for Yossi.

I do know I couldn't give it to you.

If therapist is willing to meet with us... .

And u want to.

I will.

(Going to be up front, and tell u, I cannot afford to pay for it though.)

Me to BPDexwife:

I accept the fact that you were in pain I accept the fact that you were unhappy and you want it out of the marriage I just want to know why did you lie to me

BPDex to me.

I was faithful. I was dedicated.

And I never ever cheated on u.

Me to BPDexwife:

In my heart I believe u.

I am asking u why you told me  in our bedroom you we're having an affair for the past 8 weeks.

Why?

END OF EMAILS

It felt good to hold a mirror up to her and insist that she answer why she said she was having an affair.

It felt very good to see that she refuses to accept any responsibility for her actions.

What she did/said was horrible.

my therapist told me that she does not have the ability to see her own actions in a negative light.

I asked her one simple question.

I asked it 5 times.

Each time, she refused to answer the question.

Refused to see what a horrible things she did.

This is the confused hell i lived with for 15 months.

I truly see, i could not have fixed this.

I did not cause this in her, I could not change her.


P.S.

I do (a bit)  questions my motives. Perhaps I am enjoying the interaction as a co-dependent? Perhaps I am still trying to show her the "light" and fix her? Perhaps I want her her to feel.  Internalize her horrible actions and feel pain? How does any of this help me in the long run?

I am glad that this will (hopefully) be how this relationship ends.

[peterparker]

Sam,

Your emails back and forth are almost exactly how it played out with my uBPDexgf.

She would say she did something to get an emotional reaction out of me, then take it back.

It started to happen with really big hurtful things, and it got to the point where I simply couldn't believe anything she said anymore.

Whether your BPDwife was dissociating, I don't know, but it sure seems like it.

When confronted with the truth about how they have hurt us, instead of admitting to it, they will look externally for a reason for what happened, so either it didn't happen at all, or it was our fault.

Asking a simple question like 'Why did you lie?' shouldn't be difficult for us non's, but it is for our loved ones, and is part of the disorder. Unfortunately, covering your ears, closing your eyes and yelling like a child to shut out the reality of the world is not the way you sustain a healthy, loving realtionship.

I'm sorry for what you're going through and I identify with what you said about doubting your motivations.

When my ex acted like a child and couldn't give me a straight answer, I repeated and repeated the question, expecting to get a respectful, honest and adult answer. Ultimately, I realize now that it was my mistake for expecting her to be someone she's not. I loved her with all my heart, but I loved her on the assumption she could own her actions, have productive discourse and contribute to a healthy relationship. This is not who she is, and she never was that person.

If someone sees the sky as green, it's not up to us to show them it's blue. That's their job, and we have to accept the fact that maybe they never will.

[fakename]

wow... .sounds exactly like convo's between my ex and i... .

especially the always side-stepping when i present one very clear question thing... .

to address the questions you posed to yourself at the end of your post, everyone is different... .me personally, i think i would go on with these conversations because i was just hoping for her to give me the truth, i would go on with it because i wanted to make a stand, and make it seem like i was making a stand and that i won't accept certain things, but i was always willing to forgive and forget if she just owed up to her mistakes, accepted responsibility and showed some signs that she would change or work on changing... .maybe i wanted to see her fight for me... .(maybe the reason for that is because i wanted to prove to myself that i valued myself enough - in telling her that she wronged me and also by getting validation from her in her fighting for me? maybe that was my weird way of convincing myself something)

i dont know... .i'm tired of typing... .hope you're holding up well over there

[Waifed]

My ex looked me right in the eyes and denied cheating. Two weeks later I had indisputable evidence and she said she was trying to get over me. Pathological liars. Nobody should have to live with someone who has no boundaries.  

[fromheeltoheal]

No contact is not a rule, it's a tool, one we can use to detach, and there's a difference between no contact and detaching.

It's up to you to decide if that tool will help you detach.  For me the choice was easy, regardless of the detachment tool I was not willing to make ANY room in my life for her.

Your situation is pretty fresh sam, I'm sorry things didn't work out BTW.  Try to focus on whether or not exchanges like the one you shared are helping or hindering your healing.

Take care of you!

[Clearmind]

No contact is not a rule, it's a tool, one we can use to detach, and there's a difference between no contact and detaching.

Spot on - detaching is the key - contact is actually good as it helps us work through the emotions and develop good coping skills.

Firstly, the email exchange is atypical - that is atypical between a BPD and a partner - its circular because neither party knows when is a good time to bow out of the conversation and let it rest. You want a confession - I really get it - closure would also be nice. You won't get it from her Sam!

Her reality is very different to yours and you will be pushing dirt uphill if you go back there and attempt to change her perception.

Begin to accept the therapists diagnoses and move beyond it by using your rational mind to accept that her behaviour is innate - its not your reality however so don't make it yours. This will send you around the bend and back.

Onward and upward 

[babyducks]

Sam,

First of all let me say how sorry I am to read that email exchange.   I know that must have been very very difficult for you.   Give yourself some credit for taking the moral high road and keeping the tone civil and cordial.

We all here have had the experience of the circular argument.   I am sure there is a workshop on it somewhere.   We have all had those moments where we have wanted, needed, desperately believed we could connect to our loved ones and talk something out.

Only to end in failure and defeat.

I think that is what Clearmind was referring too. 

The answer to your question is,... .there is no answer. 

Which is so illogical as to bend us into pretzels.

For what its worth, (and really what do I know; I am just some text on a screen) I believe she came very close to telling you the truth when she said:

I had nothing to hide from you.

Other than how much pain I was in.

For people who suffer from the traits of BPD,  who are so very vulnerable to harmfully intense emotional extremes, feelings must equal facts.   From my own experience I know my EX would create factual scenarios to match her emotions that were absolutely awe inspiring for their lack of rational content.

And from my own experience I know my EX was desperate to hid her emotional chaos from me behind the thinnest veneer of any excuse.  It always had to be someone else's fault, some other problem.   To be other wise would mean to accept the pain of being intrinsically damaged.   And who the heck wants to do that.   I know how very painful it is for me to accept that I had core childhood wounds that wrecked havoc in this relationship and I am coming from a more stable place than my Ex.   How much more so for her, whose coping skills are that of a young child, to stare into the face of serious emotional damage and try to wrestle it to the ground.   I hope never to need that kind of courage.

PeterParker nailed for me:

When my ex acted like a child and couldn't give me a straight answer, I repeated and repeated the question, expecting to get a respectful, honest and adult answer. Ultimately, I realize now that it was my mistake for expecting her to be someone she's not. I loved her with all my heart, but I loved her on the assumption she could own her actions, have productive discourse and contribute to a healthy relationship. This is not who she is, and she never was that person.

My Wise Mind understands that a brutal disorder is at play here.  My Yearning Heart longs for the woman I believed I knew.   The tension between the two can just about tear me apart.

Be Well.

babyducks

[DownandOut]

No matter how many times I read something on these boards that could be described as the exact same situation I was in with my uBPDexgf, the similarities never cease to amaze me. The exchange you had with your BPDexw could have been taken from every conversation I've had with my uBPDexgf around the time the relationship got rocky. She would never take accountability for anything specific, it would always be general denials and plays on my emotions trying to elicit sympathy because she was a "bad" person or "messed up." Any time I asked for an explanation as to her behavior or anything that had happened between us she would side-step the question, avoid it and spew some nonsense about how much she cared about and loved me. However, any attempts to fix or work out some of the problems in the relationship (mostly caused by her, enabled by me) she just wasn;t capable and thought that by telling me she loved me or that she cared about me would make everything better and absolve her from any guilt.

On a side note, this behavior had me so confused as to whether or not my ex could possibly have BPD and I expressed my frustration here. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=212909.msg12338310#msg12338310

[Clearmind]

We all here have had the experience of the circular argument.   I am sure there is a workshop on it somewhere.   We have all had those moments where we have wanted, needed, desperately believed we could connect to our loved ones and talk something out.

Only to end in failure and defeat.

I think that is what Clearmind was referring too. 

Thanks Ducks! There is a good workshop on circular arguments. The problem with them is that is the invalidating for both parties. The Borderline feels threatened and will lie by omission to back out of the corner and the "other" partner will push for an answer only to be met with further omissions - and around it goes. Both play a role - both need something from the exchange its just different for each - the discussion cannot go anywhere.

The best thing we can do for us is leave it - accept our partners are not well - find closure within yourself. Its impossible to gain closure from a person who has spent much of the relationship invalidating us. Ask yourself why you need answers from them to make the break up real for you.

How to stop circular arguments