help: very basic questions about mediation

[maxen]

there is a mediator. this person is professionally trained in marital law, but may not be a lawyer. we, the two parties, communicate with the mediator. with a lawyer, the business is taken care of, mostly, between the lawyers. with a mediator, the business is taken care of by all three parties communicating, sometimes together in a room.

is that right?

[Matt]

It works different ways in different places.  You need to ask exactly how mediation works where you live.

Here's how it worked in my case:

Mediation was mandatory, and set up by the court.  Three one-hour sessions.  Everything said was private, and the mediator could not be required to testify.

If we agreed on something - even if it wasn't everything - that subject would be written up by the mediator, and we would both sign it, and then that issue would be settled.  If we could have settled half the issues in mediation, that might have saved us lots of legal fees, because the lawyers would only work on the remaining issues.

But... .you need to ask someone exactly how it works where you live - who pays - how many sessions - is it private? - will the mediator testify? - etc.

It can be a good way to resolve issues, cheaper than lawyers.  But if one party has BPD or some other psychological disorder, it's usually not very effective.

[maxen]

thanks Matt.

But if one party has BPD or some other psychological disorder, it's usually not very effective.

well, she does. it's not as bad as some cases i've read here, but she does. and as the sort who was attracted to a BPD, i tend to be complaisant. two reasons then to stay with the lawyers.

[ForeverDad]

Some states allow the lawyers to accompany their clients to mediation, some don't.  In some states the mediation is like a black box, if it fails then the mediator doesn't report anything to the court.  In other states partial agreements can be reported.  Generally agreements there are binding, but check local laws in case they aren't.  When dealing with BPD nothing is set in stone and over until it's all over, maybe.

Many states require the couple to try mediation first, it can save time, money and stress.  (So in those states you do have to give it a try, just don't feel you have to walk out with a deal there since often that deal would require you to sacrifice yourself.  Give it an honest effort then head on to court.)  In high conflict cases like ours with disordered spouses it generally doesn't work, it's too soon, for most of us a settlement wasn't possible until our ex-spouses realized there was no more delay possible, no more obstruction, no more whatever.  Since a mediation is usually early in a case, there's no pressure yet and so often it fails with entitled or controlling pwBPD/NPD.

[maxen]

thanks FD. my state is not one of the states that require mediation first.

she sicced a lawyer on me, so i got a lawyer, put down 10K, and then she wondered about mediation, but in a passive-agressive way ("is it too late for that?". as she says, she's "very confused".

[Matt]

There are a few ways it might be worth trying.

First, if you and your wife can agree on what the issues are - not the solutions, just a list of the things that needs to be decided - then maybe you can tell her, "If you will put your proposal for each issue into writing, we can sit down with the mediator and see if we can work some of them out."  The reason I say she should write down her proposals is that they will serve as a starting point;  otherwise, you will probably be wasting your time, because nothing you propose will be acceptable.

Note that this only makes sense if you both agree that the purpose is to work out the divorce.  If one of you wants to get back together, and the other doesn't, then mediation can't work, because you have different goals.

The other way it might be worth trying is if your goal is not to settle anything, but to understand what she may say during the legal process.  You can go into mediation, listen to what she says, and take notes, and then just agree to disagree.  That way, you'll know what she will probably say during the legal process, so you can prepare for it.  (But it puts you in the position of implying you are in mediation to resolve things, when you're really not... .)

[maxen]

thanks matt, all good thoughts.

Note that this only makes sense if you both agree that the purpose is to work out the divorce.  If one of you wants to get back together, and the other doesn't, then mediation can't work, because you have different goals.

and honestly, deep in my heart i think there's one coal still burning ... .

[Matt]

thanks matt, all good thoughts.

Note that this only makes sense if you both agree that the purpose is to work out the divorce.  If one of you wants to get back together, and the other doesn't, then mediation can't work, because you have different goals.

and honestly, deep in my heart i think there's one coal still burning ... .

So maybe both of you still think the marriage might be saved?

I think it's super-critical to first figure out whether that is your goal, and whether it's realistic, before communicating with her at all.  If you're not clear on your objective, you can only make things more messy, especially if she's unclear too.

It took me a long time - and this was after my wife lied to the police and I went to jail!  (So I guess I'm a pretty slow learner.)  We went to Marriage Counselor #3 and #4 - almost a year working to save the marriage - before I realized it wasn't doing any good, and gave up on the marriage, and moved forward with the divorce.  I (and my family and friends) probably knew that's what had to happen, but it was important to me to do everything possible to save the marriage first, before moving forward with the divorce... .

[maxen]

I think it's super-critical to first figure out whether that is your goal, and whether it's realistic, before communicating with her at all.  If you're not clear on your objective, you can only make things more messy, especially if she's unclear too.

It took me a long time - and this was after my wife lied to the police and I went to jail!  (So I guess I'm a pretty slow learner.)  We went to Marriage Counselor #3 and #4 - almost a year working to save the marriage - before I realized it wasn't doing any good, and gave up on the marriage, and moved forward with the divorce.  I (and my family and friends) probably knew that's what had to happen, but it was important to me to do everything possible to save the marriage first, before moving forward with the divorce... .

thanks so much for offering that matt. the question you've put to me is just the one i have to ponder, and now. much will be happening soon.

and i'm sorry about what happened to you! a nightmare! but i understand totally how you'd still want to fix it. what my w did was horrible (not epically horrible, like yours, but still horrible) and i can't quite yet shake her. i never wanted to be divorced, either.

[Matt]

It's a very common struggle lots of us have to go through.

[livednlearned]

It's a very common struggle lots of us have to go through.

Until you decide you want to live a healthy, whole, abuse-free life.

[ForeverDad]

By the time most arrive here in Family Law they've already concluded the relationship is dysfunctional and has ended or is about to end.  Or they're researching and preparing in case it does happen.

If you think there might be a glow left, be aware that if you do try again then that's okay, it's your decision after all, but if you BOTH haven't made changes (therapy, etc) then you'll be back here again, sooner or later.  The dysfunction doesn't end with mere promises to improve.  It takes commitment, meaningful therapy and diligent application over time in thinking, behaviors and overall life.  Without that, sadly you will be back.

[Matt]

It's a very common struggle lots of us have to go through.

Until you decide you want to live a healthy, whole, abuse-free life.

Yup.

[livednlearned]

One thing to add -- mediation can be very emotional. If you still have a coal burning for the marriage, I recommend asking that mediation happen in separate rooms.

You might not be at a point where you can take care of yourself first. You might be still trying to take care of her. In which case, you spend all this money in mediation, and then find out your greatest adversary is you. It happens!

If you're in another room, your head is a bit more clear, you aren't in a position where she can play you. It's just you and your own thoughts, your own feelings, and a lawyer or mediator (or both) trying to make sure you don't sabotage yourself.

I mediated in a separate room and I'm glad I did. I look back on where my head was at in those early post-separation days, and woowee was I ever a pushover. I needed to have someone protect me from myself and a room to myself where my issues were in better check.