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Author Topic: No boundries when it comes to sex?  (Read 922 times)
Octoberfest
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2013, 05:46:33 PM »

Someone said of my borderline if she had as many dicks sticking out of her as stuck in her she'd look like a porcupine.  

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) I laughed really hard at this.  :)efinitely applicable to my BPDex as well, and at only 22 years of age. Really sad.

I  told her  that her paramour  was a  player ( just based on stuff she told me about him),  but she still thinks he's this great religious guy in touch with  God or  something.  the script in their heads  is so messed up! I  guarantee she'll never  find another like me.  She knows it,  too. I  know she knows it.  yet the play must go on... .

On a more serious note, I also believe this to be true in my situation.  When we split for good after I caught her dating another man at the same time as me for the 3rd or 4th time, a few days after she said to me, "Forget about me".  I asked her why I should do that and she replied, "Because I was never good for you.  You are so much better of a person than I could ever dream of being, and as sad as that is, we both know it is true.  So just forget it ok.  Forget about all of the garbage that I brought into your life and go be that amazing man that I know that you are.  Can you do that for me?"

Oh how I wish I had left things right there... .instead I continued contact for another month or two intermittently until I finally had enough and blocked her number.  I have posted on here many times how she is now engaged to a fat, greasy, cocaine using bar trash loser with really poorly done tattoos.  She got engaged to him after knowing him for 4 months, and also while involved with the guy that she was cheating on me with at the end.  I wonder now if she is with him because she feels that he is who she deserves? If her toxic shame is playing a role in it.  Who knows.
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2013, 05:53:21 PM »

Just a thought about personal responsibility.

Knowing what you know about the questionable sexual boundaries, the possibility of abuse and trauma the person with BPD in your life was dealing with would you say that next time a person exhibits these lack of boundaries you would think twice about engaging sexually with them?

It's super easy to wax on their sexual antics but at some point someone has to be the adult and heed these signs a bit. Engaging with someone who has a traumatic sexual history is at a disadvantage - though it can seem like porn star sex, great sex, wild, uninhibited, etc in the beginning.

Indeed, I would feel like I was taking advantage.

I felt that way in the relationship with my BPD ex and didn't always do what she wanted as it didn't feel right.

I hear that.  And scary right?

Give this some thought being the adult and dealing with an adult child sexually puts you parent role. Or a position of power.  This can get funky is you want a mutual intimate relationship.  This lopsided dynamic speaks to a lot of problems.

It's a huge lesson on saying "no" and having better boundaries ourselves instead of being swept up in the lust and thinking with our pants.
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« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2013, 05:55:38 PM »

I  told her  that her paramour  was a  player ( just based on stuff she told me about him),  but she still thinks he's this great religious guy in touch with  God or  something.  the script in their heads  is so messed up! I  guarantee she'll never  find another like me.  She knows it,  too. I  know she knows it.  yet the play must go on... .

On a more serious note, I also believe this to be true in my situation.  When we split for good after I caught her dating another man at the same time as me for the 3rd or 4th time, a few days after she said to me, "Forget about me".  I asked her why I should do that and she replied, "Because I was never good for you.  You are so much better of a person than I could ever dream of being, and as sad as that is, we both know it is true.  So just forget it ok.  Forget about all of the garbage that I brought into your life and go be that amazing man that I know that you are.  Can you do that for me?"

Mine said something along similar lines when I first met her. Since she was honest with me up front about being enraptured and damaged by her previous Love (this was almost two years previous!), it became my responsibility in her eyes if I kept trying, or hanging around. In that, she was actually correct! Two years into our relationship it took her to let go of his memory... .
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« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2013, 06:06:41 PM »

The guys (myself included) and I presume the women folk as well, pine for a time for the strange off the hook sex the Personality Disordered utilize. Weather we call it "porno", "crazy", "unreal", or whatever vernacular we use to describe this phenomena of damaged method, now that some time has passed for me, I do have a thought on this.

What bothered us (me) in that time is not the fact that we "got it" but we are left with a knowledge that someone else is now "getting it" in the exact same scripted way. This twists up our primal thinking for a time and prevents a moving forward with "human reality". Which for me is the simple fact that this type of "love" is simply unsustainable in the long run. It is mechanically rout on its face and in our deeper place we know this. It is a pretty play for a time but we cannot watch the same act in the production over and over

We are emotional beings with needs that transcend the purely physical in terms of "staying power" where relationships are concerned. Sex is the gods gift to us all and I for one am an aficionado for sure but at the end of the day the question is asked, Who will be there for me, when the sex is over, to wipe my brow and speak tenderly to and about me at the end of this earthbound journey? Who? My "partner" or my "mate"? The two are dimensionally different beings in our lives IMO.

Let her have her sex, let her have her excitement and "relationships" and all their profound damages and emptiness.

At the end I would want my "trusted mate" to be the one who stands in the wings of my final curtain call. ANY DAY!    
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« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2013, 06:21:45 PM »

So true shadow but what do you mean by 'partner' and 'mate?

Soulmate?
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« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2013, 06:31:31 PM »

So true shadow but what do you mean by 'partner' and 'mate?

Soulmate?

Legit question Strike. For me a partner could be a partner in crime, business, life, sex or whatever. They come and go.

A mate for me is a "trusted dedicated" part of the whole. This word "mate" is used for the brave souls upon the high seas. All the "mates" were "equally important" for the function of the whole. This is why the first democracies were developed on the ships of old. It was here that we were "sworn" and dedicated to the good of the total crew and all shared in the destination and victory.

"Soul mate" is a work of progress.
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« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2013, 06:42:20 PM »

So true shadow but what do you mean by 'partner' and 'mate?

Soulmate?

Legit question Strike. For me a partner could be a partner in crime, business, life, sex or whatever. They come and go.

A mate for me is a "trusted dedicated" part of the whole. This word "mate" is used for the brave souls upon the high seas. All the "mates" were "equally important" for the function of the whole. This is why the first democracies were developed on the ships of old. It was here that we were "sworn" and dedicated to the good of the total crew and all shared in the destination and victory.

"Soul mate" is a work of progress.

Brilliantly put  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2013, 12:41:23 AM »

Knowing what you know about the questionable sexual boundaries, the possibility of abuse and trauma the person with BPD in your life was dealing with would you say that next time a person exhibits these lack of boundaries you would think twice about engaging sexually with them?
Excerpt
No, I would have no problem engaging with them again sexually (with protection). I know what I have to offer them, and know who I am. Would I actively seek that out is a different question.
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« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2013, 01:01:00 AM »

My exgf was sexually abused from the age of 7 until 10-11.

It does such terrible damage, it's like throwing acid at someone's a soul.

Mental hospitals are filled with who people who have been hurt in this way.

I agree with the posters who suggest compassion for those who have suffered.

This doesn't legitimise their subsequent abuse  of others but it's better and healthier to remind ourselves that despite the awful things they do it's not personal, it's part of their disorder.

There's a lot of debate about BPD and sexual abuse and I wouldn't suggest it's the primary cause but it nearly always happens in environment of neglect and dysfunction. And that's ripe territory for BPD

But sexual abuse in particular it is the root of so much pain, chaos and dysfunction.

As a partner you can't fix it - I spent 15 years trying to encourage and cajole my ex to get T but it was like trying to wrestle with the wind, exhausting and futile.

When I finally gave her an ultimatum she had an affair ending our relationship and the pressure on her to get therapy.

She did have issues with boundaries but it is such a loaded subject for someone who has been sexually abused a child.

Trying to broach the subject brings up so many issues. Their lack of boundaries is often the result of neglect and abuse but in their heart of hearts many believe the opposite.

Deep down many believe they were abused because they allowed it to happen that it was their fault because they are bad or dirty etc.

A child can still be aroused even though they are being abused... Can you imagine the terrible confusion and shame that leaves

Feeling complicit even though they are being betrayed by someone who is exploiting their trust and vulnerability

Sexual abuse is about using superior power to dominate or manipulate someone who is weaker or vulnerable.

But the most terrible and destructive thing is how the abuser leaves their victim feeling complicit and responsible for what happened.

That terrible shame and betrayal destroys self esteem, trust and leaves the abused seeing intimacy as something that's terribly frightening and dangerous.

Can you blame them? I can't…

I hate what it does to them and to the people who love them
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« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2013, 01:19:49 AM »

Reforming, you did your best. You tackled the most difficult of circumstances with a woman. I did the same. We demonstrated something to them--that is intrinsically good. Countering the evil. They will carry that within despite the abuse and the disorder. In another life, they will be healed. 
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« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2013, 05:51:23 AM »

I have never blamed my ex for the way she is.

It wasn't her fault, she never asked to be this way, never asked to be abused as a kid.

What it boils down too is that we cant do anything substantial with them. We cant cure them. And the longer we stay the more damaged we will become.

The sad reality is simply the fact that we need to cut them out to save ourselves.

If I could cure her I would, if I could end sexual abuse I would. But this is the grim world that we live in. It would take the combined effort of humanity to change the world, which is simply never going to happen. Thankfully, one day, the show will be over for good.
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« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2013, 06:07:11 AM »

I have never blamed my ex for the way she is.

It wasn't her fault, she never asked to be this way, never asked to be abused as a kid.

True, it wasn't her fault, but how she treats people is still her responsibility, and inexcusable is inexcusable, as it is with everyone.

The sad reality is simply the fact that we need to cut them out to save ourselves.

Also true.  And maybe one of these times, one of these suitors, or all of them collectively, will cause a light to go on in that damaged psyche that will motivate them to go get, and stay with, professional help.  It is not a hopeless condition, the prognosis is actually good, but only if a borderline wants it.
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« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2013, 06:13:18 AM »

I guess that's true. I was talking to a mental health worker sometime ago while I was still with my ex. He said that the disorder is no excuse for bad behavior.

He said they use the disorder as an excuse to do what they want. That was the eye opener for me. A week later we had split up.

Is there any examples on here of therapy/professional help working?
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« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2013, 06:45:17 AM »

Is there any examples on here of therapy/professional help working?

I m interested in knowing this answer as well... .Anyone?


I have seen a few examples described where it 'was' working here in the past but invariably the person comes back saying it didnt work
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« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2013, 06:48:21 AM »

Mine started therapy and counseling after we split up the first time but then once she had got me back, after a period of separation, she left therapy and never went back.
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« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2013, 06:54:48 AM »

Mine started therapy and counseling after we split up the first time but then once she had got me back, after a period of separation, she left therapy and never went back.

I haven't seen anything here, doesn't mean it isn't here, but there are memoirs and books written by borderlines who consider themselves 'cured'.

I liken it to recovery from alcoholism, in that it's an uphill battle that takes a lot of work for a long time, and there is no cure, there's just continued vigilance involved to keep the symptoms at bay.  And as with alcoholism the success rate is low, but there are success stories by folks who have wanted to do the work and have stuck with it for years, literally.
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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2013, 06:57:40 AM »

Mine started therapy and counseling after we split up the first time but then once she had got me back, after a period of separation, she left therapy and never went back.

I haven't seen anything here, doesn't mean it isn't here, but there are memoirs and books written by borderlines who consider themselves 'cured'.

I liken it to recovery from alcoholism, in that it's an uphill battle that takes a lot of work for a long time, and there is no cure, there's just continued vigilance involved to keep the symptoms at bay.  And as with alcoholism the success rate is low, but there are success stories by folks who have wanted to do the work and have stuck with it for years, literally.

I don't mean to be crude but I will never take anything said by a BPD at face value. My ex would say there was nothing wrong with her and then admit there was a problem.

I need to see something from a partner of a BPD who can say that they are cured and the love and intimacy is lasting.
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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2013, 07:05:46 AM »

Yeah, that would be the test, independent verification.

As we know borderlines spin webs of lies and create a facade, open, honest communication is hard to come by, and there's so much chaos between their ears that the 'truth' changes on the fly.  That is my understanding of long term care: a borderline lacks the ability to self-soothe so they feel all emotions strongly, and when the emotion of the moment is in control reality and rational thought go out the window.  The first step in therapy is to teach a borderline to self-soothe, DBT is a chosen method, and once they get reasonably good at that, they can develop a relationship with the therapist that is based on trust and respect, the rubber hits the road, and things get real.  For once.  A big issue with a borderline is they keep doing things they're ashamed of and repress it, where it bubbles up in rage or impulsive behavior or any of the other thrills.  The point of therapy is to stop the bleeding, learn to self-soothe, and then address all the shame and guilt.  A very hard road.
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« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2013, 07:11:08 AM »

My ex had BPD at a chronic level, that was the psychiatrists own words.

Told her that she would be on high levels of medication for the rest of her life.

I seriously doubt she would ever be in a position to get the help she needs.
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« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2013, 07:20:52 AM »

My ex had BPD at a chronic level, that was the psychiatrists own words.

Told her that she would be on high levels of medication for the rest of her life.

I seriously doubt she would ever be in a position to get the help she needs.

Sorry man. 

I've read that shrinks have historically shied away from borderlines, considering them the hardest to treat or even untreatable, and it's common to prescribe meds to keep the lid on. 

Sidebar: my borderline went to her GP to talk about trouble sleeping and she walked out with scrips for heavy psych meds, wonder what the doc thought and how that appointment went; my borderline was just pissed because she just wanted sleep meds and didn't find out what the meds were until she got to the pharmacy.

Anyway, apparently there are specialists on BPD now and the field is growing and getting mature, so maybe there's cause for more hope than previously, although the borderline's still gotta want it or nothing will happen.
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« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2013, 07:28:23 AM »

My ex had BPD at a chronic level, that was the psychiatrists own words.

Told her that she would be on high levels of medication for the rest of her life.

I seriously doubt she would ever be in a position to get the help she needs.

Sorry man. 

I've read that shrinks have historically shied away from borderlines, considering them the hardest to treat or even untreatable, and it's common to prescribe meds to keep the lid on. 

Sidebar: my borderline went to her GP to talk about trouble sleeping and she walked out with scrips for heavy psych meds, wonder what the doc thought and how that appointment went; my borderline was just pissed because she just wanted sleep meds and didn't find out what the meds were until she got to the pharmacy.

Anyway, apparently there are specialists on BPD now and the field is growing and getting mature, so maybe there's cause for more hope than previously, although the borderline's still gotta want it or nothing will happen.

That's exactly the same story with mine. She had trouble sleeping, would text me at 3am worrying etc.

She went to the docs and she ended up on high level anti-psychotics.

She told me after we split up for the final time a few weeks back that the meds were no longer working.

She was on 300mg of anti-psychotics per day.
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« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2013, 08:00:28 AM »

Do they always cheat?

My BPDgf is also very hot in bed, i was suprized what she was doing from the beginning. I felt suspicious about that from the beginning of our relationship. From the beginning i felt a litte strange about it. Her thoughts were always around sex. She wanted to do this if we were angry on each other or fighting. When after her "anger attack" I am upset and dont want to have sex with her, she is terrorizing me, she closes herself in bathroom saying "I will do it myself if you dont want to"... .or jus does it laying next to me... .than saying in hate "I dont need you"... .It makes me brainwash! I caught her on lie about the guy he met, I did not caught her cheating but I have strong suspicions that she does it. We do not leave together, she lives with her small kids, but I am pretty sure she does it over internet... .many times she behaved strange when I called in the evening. Once I came to her place her massage thing, sexy sleeping thing which she does not use except "hot nights" and earphones was laying in front of computer... .I asked her what is this? she "did not want to talk about it", she was explaining herself a lot... .but I see how she looks on guys everywhere we go... .

Can they be so skilled in lies? I go insane cause explanations she sais are sometimes so out of sense and she thinks people can belive it... .well at the end we fight and after I am thinking "maybe I am too jelaous, maybe I am exagerrating cause I did not cought her "on this", I feel guilty and she goes fourious, but I can not sometimes negate common sense.
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« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2013, 10:20:18 AM »

I love this discussion.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

It helps in the part of the detachment process that says: Breakdown the loss (the situation) to understand it in a clear and balanced way - your part, your partner's part; what is normal relationship "stuff", what was abnormal; what was malicious, what was weakness, or what was ignorance. It's very important to detach from your emotions for this and look at things in a analytical way (use your inner witness).

I remember a couple years ago, one of the members explained to me that a person with BPD is still just a person and like any person - there are likable traits about them and there are not so likable traits about them. The pwBPD in my life can be really funny, actually she is extremely witty - a little bit on the crass side though. So at a bar or other kind of adult party, she can be a hoot. She also struggles in boundaries, so she's been known to take that same kind of humor and exhibit it at a birthday party for her 11 year old or a Halloween party where kids are present.

When I didn't understand BPD behavior, I used to think she was weird, attention seeking and obnoxious. The more I understood BPD however, I started to see that here's this really funny person whose filter just has not been properly developed.

Not all pwBPD cheat. Not all pwBPD are sexually aggressive or in contrast sexually passive. Not all pwBPD were molested. Each pwBPD has their own story to get her/him to develop these really poor coping skills. Like fromheeltoheal said - the core issues for a pwBPD is the ability to regulate emotions (i.e. self soothe). When you understand that aspect, the behavior starts to make more sense and feel less personal - or at least it did for me.

If so inclined, I really, really recommend the video linked below - it's not boring, I promise. And that's coming from me who is easily bored.

It gives a clinical perspective (Linehan, Gunderson), family member's perspective (a mother, a wife), and even a pwBPD perspective (both male and female). It answers about 90% of the questions raised in this thread: Is it treatable? How is it caused? Who has seen success?. It's 45 minutes, so I'd suggest some popcorn. Kettle corn if you're anything like me and have a sweet tooth. Smiling (click to insert in post)

Back from the Edge - Borderline Personality Disorder

~DreamGirl
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« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2013, 07:10:25 AM »

Reforming, you did your best. You tackled the most difficult of circumstances with a woman. I did the same. We demonstrated something to them--that is intrinsically good. Countering the evil. They will carry that within despite the abuse and the disorder. In another life, they will be healed. 

Thanks Conundrum. I made lots of mistakes too and brought my own trauma and issues into our relationship but I have begun to accept that I did the best I could.

I'm still very sad that the outcome wasn't different but I recognise that's all I could do.

And my soul feels lighter for knowing this and with time and work I will heal.

I really hope that she can heal too even though I recognise that it won't be with me

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« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2013, 05:28:07 PM »

My ex and I started out very innocently. We developed what I thought was a friendship. She quickly seized that theme and continued to push the envelope until it became nothing but sex. I have no doubt she must of been abused as a child to take the chances that she took to be with me. I was 18 and she was my former high school teacher. She was married and is still married today. I still can't believe the risk's she took that could of ruined her marriage and career. Yet, she acted like she was possessed when it came to sex. She didn't have any boundaries or self-control.  She didn't care in the least that we were doing it in the public. In fact, she seemed to get off on it. I remember she called me on the phone in the middle of the night and told me to meet her outside her house! Her husband was asleep upstairs. Being young and stupid I actually met her outside. When it became very apparent that she was going to have sex with me I told her to stop. It still became a make-out session though. I can't believe she could be so professional and then change into this entirely different person that was in ''heat".

That relationship lasted two years. She still tries to contact me today, even though she is still married. I've often wondered how many others are out there. Her appetite for sex was very intense and I doubt that went away after I moved on. She taught for over 20 years after she met me. I can't imagine I was the only one.
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« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2013, 06:16:35 PM »

Mine like yours knows I was the nicest guy ever to enter her life and that she has lost me forever now.

Sad.

Mine has said similiar things to me.

Did yours ever actually say this or is this a conclusion for you? I know its true for most of us (that we even deserve better) but I m wonder 'IF' it was acknowledged, was she at all moved by it?

Yep she said it many times in the relationship and after we separated

yep, mine said she was sexually abused AND that i was the nicest/sweetest/most respectful/most loving/etc,etc AND all the others were scumbags who used her and abused her and treatly her badly in any/all number of ways.

my question:  don't any of you ever think that pwBPD say that to EVERY new person they're with?  it's part of the charm... part of the hooking... .reeling us in.

i'll be the first to admit that i ate it up and came back for seconds!  it still sometimes makes me sad to realize that she most likely said that to every man/woman in her life b/c that's just simply part of the BPD script, and i fell for it.  for some reason, i needed it.
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2013, 06:42:04 PM »

my question:  don't any of you ever think that pwBPD say that to EVERY new person they're with?  it's part of the charm... part of the hooking... .reeling us in.

i'll be the first to admit that i ate it up and came back for seconds!  it still sometimes makes me sad to realize that she most likely said that to every man/woman in her life b/c that's just simply part of the BPD script, and i fell for it.  for some reason, i needed it.

Actually it's part of the attachment.  Remember a borderline never separates from their primary caregiver, usually their mother, in infancy, and never develops an autonomous 'self'.  So they spend their lives looking for a replacement attachment to make themselves whole, all subconscious mind you.  But for a period of time, in borderline fantasy land, we were that pristine, ideal attachment that was going to make all the abandonment fears go away and let her feel whole; we really were perfect in their mind for a while.  That being a fantasy, when reality hits it is another very painful traumatic disappointment for the borderline, hurts like hell, they blame themselves, can't deal with the shame, project it on the object of the failed attachment, and hell for us ensues.  And of course all the previous suitors went through the same thing, so they're scumbags too.

for some reason, i needed it.  Why is one of the most important questions we can ask moving forward.
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ShadowDancer
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 502


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« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2013, 06:46:22 PM »

Of course we "needed it". We are white knights and our armor could use a good polishing in the "moment".

Lost boys rescue broken girls.

I realized that suit of armor was not fine tempered steel twas only tin foil. That cape I once wore was not fine red silk, twas only a dirty towel. And she was... .she was who she was.

Now that I know who I am, yes she told that "story" to anyone who would listen. undoubtedly.

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BuildingFromScratch
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 422


« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2013, 07:07:24 PM »

Of course we "needed it". We are white knights and our armor could use a good polishing in the "moment".

Lost boys rescue broken girls.

I realized that suit of armor was not fine tempered steel twas only tin foil. That cape I once wore was not fine red silk, twas only a dirty towel. And she was... .she was who she was.

Now that I know who I am, yes she told that "story" to anyone who would listen. undoubtedly.

Haha, this post made me laugh. So true! Even though we were probably more damaged by the relationship. We have more of an opportunity to heal from it. Where as Borderlines go through life never really healing. (I guess it's possible, but very unlikely)
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ucmeicu2
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 389


« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2013, 07:12:16 PM »

Soulmate?

i'm gonna take a humorous stab at this and say "INmate"?   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  it sure felt like i was in an asylum sometimes... .a prisoner at others... .

What it boils down too is that we cant do anything substantial with them. We cant cure them. And the longer we stay the more damaged we will become.  The sad reality is simply the fact that we need to cut them out to save ourselves.

[/quote]


oh my gosh, so well put, so true... .yet, even tho i understand this intellectually, it's still sometimes very difficult emotionally... .  i am so frackin' tired of fighting reality.  i kinda feel like that research monkey that put his hand through a hole in a box to grab the banana but couldn't figure out how to get out his hand AND the banana.  ended up dying.  but hey, he still had the banana! 
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