My exBPD lover sent me an article about not brushing off women as "crazy"

[Diana82]

Hey

well, it's not a relationship... we went out for a couple of months... .she avoided me... I went to Europe... came back... she said she misses me... I asked what happened and BAM that started a war.  

Not sure if I mentioned- but I had felt bad asking her harshly why she had avoided me and she accused me of calling her "bipolar junkie" (untrue!).

So I called her after our fight and left a message saying this and clearing up I didn't call her that but apologised for our angry messaging.

But this made her even worse. She then lashed out on text telling me my "apology was nasty" and I insult her weekly and she feels terrible. Then she told me we have nothing much in common and make each other angry and sad. And she said goodbye and that she is "___ed".  And promptly deleted me off Facebook.

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[Diana82]

before I went to Europe... her emotions were a bit all over the place... she was erratic and kept freaking out when I'd get close to her... but also was needy.

But since I returned home, she seems a lot worse. Now she has resorted to being passive aggressive and raging but then feeling bad a day later.

I don't know what happened in her life the past 3 weeks... but I do know she can't handle too much stress with people.

Once she had a fight with a friend and took it out on me and told me I should consider giving up on her. This is why I think something else has happened in her life recently to take her anger out on me.

[Diana82]

this was my last text to her:

The way others perceive you, has nothing to do with me. Please stop sending me these self destructive messages that bait a response.

I used to like talking to you, but I've actually had enough of being made to feel bad over the way others have treated you. Please focus your bitterness elsewhere


if she is BPD... I don't think this will resonate with her 

[Diana82]

Maybeso>> Ok I will give it a few days and see what happens. Maybe she will apologise again!

Not sure that will help us be friends though.

[Diana82]

Ok... this was our text conversation after she sent me the article... saying "interesting timing"

what do you think?  is this a conversation you may have with a BPD?  They get bored half way through even though they started this whole thing?


ME:  "This article seems aimed at an ex who has invalidated your feelings and dismisses you as crazy because it's easier.  I don't think you're crazy and you have a right to feel whatever you feel"

HER:  "Ha! sorry I have never been made to feel this way before. You're obviously very intelligent and you understand the power of language and use it well. I keep getting dragged into this saga and it's driving me a bit loopy!"

ME:   "Righto. Maybe send it to someone who actually thinks you are crazy? because that's not me"

No reply.


Next day:

ME:  "Hey, so I read the article in depth today and the reference to me is a bit ambiguous. So, just wondering... why did you send this to me again?'

HER: "You're begining to sound like a copy of the DSM with all the psychological issues you are concerned some ex has labelled me with" 

and then

HER:  "*sigh* I don't have the willpower to ignore you

ME:  (thinking huh?)  "Well, maybe you shouldn't send me such things if you're unwilling to handle my confusion."

HER:  "You shouldn't label women as crazy just because you deem their behaviour to be inappropriate. It's so patronising. The article was simple I thought"

ME:  "When did I label you crazy though?"

HER:  "You don't have to. Everyone who knows me apparently does it already"

and then

HER:  "I'm really bored of this. What do I need to say or admit to make you stop texting me every day?"

[Grey Kitty]

I'd say that the conversation is consistent with her being untreated BPD ... .and you being a non- who hasn't studied tools for communicating with a pwBPD.

What are you looking for or expecting with/from her in the future?

• Resuming a romantic r/s?



• Going on to a non-romantic friendship?



• Getting an apology from her for withdrawing from you before your vacation?



• Getting an apology for this txt exchange?



• Something else or several of the above?

You sound pretty upset about the way she has treated you (understandable and appropriate!), and unclear about what you want.

What can we help you with here?

 GK

[Diana82]

When I arrived home I was hoping to resume a romantic thing with her.

But now I don't as Im hurt and quite scared of her intense anger and emotional problems. I think now I would like to he at least friendly.

I don't think I'll ever get a real answer as to why she avoided me.

But what I haven't mentioned here is that just before she avoided me, I found out she went away to a science conference interstate with her ex girlfriend.

Worse... she lied and told me it was a "friend". She was very vague.

I had had heard her trash talk her ex for months and suddenly I find her ex has tagged her on facebook at the airport lounge! Her "friend" was her ex. I was really angry. And told her she didn't have to be so shady and could have told me.

Her responses were conflicted and she said:

"I'm really sorry. Nothing is going on, we are just friends and we just have an obscure shared interest in science. I didn't tell you cos I thought you'd freak out"

I was still angry.

Then she said "Well you react how you want to. I have apologised. We hasn't defined what we were doing and I didn't think it was important to tell you. I don't think I have really done anything to warrant this reaction".

It was true... we had not confirmed we were exclusive yet. But she had still lied to me and was shady. They were also sharing a room!

I was angry for a few days but then forgave her and it sounded like they were just friends.

But then she didn't want to see me. She avoided me for 3 weeks and pretended she was busy.

I left for Europe hurt and feeling rejected.

That's why her "I miss you" message when I came back was a surprise.

[Diana82]

My friends actually think I'm crazy wanting to be friends with her!

Considering she lied about going away with an ex, avoided me, raged at me for asking why she had, accused me of calling her bipolar and a junkie, abused me via text message after I apologised, then continued to insult my character and then brush me off again when I asked her to clarify her messages.

I honestly can't answer as to why I care about this woman. :/

[Diana82]

Also, after she raged at me the other week, she told me she was "devastated" that she hurt me and it wasn't her intention. And added " I wouldn't give me this much energy to be honest though".

Is this self pity? And is using the word "devastated" a little extreme? Could it be true she feels that bad about lashing out at me?

[Grey Kitty]

I would guess that it is true.

This disorder comes complete with very intense sincere feelings... .followed almost immediately with equally intense, sincere feelings that somehow contradict the prior ones. And no real ability to notice that there is a disconnect or contradiction built into it.

You might get a real answer why she avoided you... .but it won't be one that makes much sense to you!

[MaybeSo]

right, she has symptoms of BPD or something like it, mood instability, fear of perceived abandonment, impulsivity, etc. you are experiencing what BPD feels like in a relationship. we all have experienced similar behaviors with our partners, it can be mind blowing, we understand.

what would you like to do? she is who she is. this is not going to change. this experience is giving you good information so that you can make sound decisions for yourself.

is she really feeling devestated? the feelings are intense and very changeable, she may feel huge love for you on Monday, hate you on Wed, and feel devestated about a fight on Friday. She may not remember the fight by Sunday. this is BPD, there are perceptual and cognitive distortions, memory is also often affected.

you may need time to let this sink in.

So, what would be helpful for you right now?

[Diana82]

Hi there

I feel like ever since I came back from Europe, she has got worse.      She never lashed out at me via text or grossly misinterpreted things. Also, her moods were never this intense and changeable.

She was definitely moody and quite sad and hyper and did read too into things... but this is on a whole different level now.  So it is quite shocking for me to come home and find her like this.  When I was dating her, she was also more into me and flirtatious... wanted to see me regularly.

If I am correct, this sounds like splitting. But every now and then she apologizes     so it's been so confusing.

I just wanted to be on friendly terms with her and I told her this. But we did agree to leave things be for a while. I think a part of me has found it hard to ignore her insults or self-victimising comments to be honest.

When I have said "One day we can be friends hopefully. Hope you have a great day"... she will say the same but throw in "I know you didn't mean to attack me... ."  or "you make me act defensively"  or "you have a knack for finding my insecurities"

It's also part of my personality to want to solve things.  If someone has an issue with me- I want to know what it is and how I can resolve it.  This has been my attitude with her too. I haven't ignored her comments at all.

Her messages have baited me to respond (I feel)  as I think she knows that I am a 'fixer' personality.

[Diana82]

I do feel my message was firm and to the point. It's true I feel very tired over being blamed for the way others treat her and being sent these self-victimising messages that bait a response. Yet when I respond in a way she dislikes- she won't hesitate in letting me know. And the other day resorted to telling me she is trying to ignore me.

I am not sure I will hear from her again... . 

I don't think I can be friends with her if she has 'split me' in this way as well...

[Diana82]

 I do feel that my message will be badly received by her. If she feels such intense emotions and also thought I insult her regularly - when I haven't... .and then even felt my apology was "nasty"... .I can't image what a firm message like that would do to her!

Her silence is quite deafening. And I am finding it hard not to text her and say "I'm sorry if that seemed harsh... "   

[Diana82]

But I also feel *a little* like I contradicted myself... .

I had sent her a peace message 2 weeks ago saying "Hi there. If we can be friends one day, it would help if I know what can upset you. I'm quite understanding"... .

Do you think her sending that article to me, was her way of trying to open up more? trying to show me that this is why she is upset... because people think she is 'crazy' and her feelings are misunderstood? And that she doesn't want me to view her this way too?

And I then shut her down (mainly because I felt insulted and she also told me she is trying to ignore me) instead of showing her patience and understanding how she might feel (like I said I would earlier)?

I am thinking of maybe sending her a Merry Christmas message later

[MaybeSo]

You dated her for 2 months back in August.

You aren't really in a relationship with her.

She is showing you who she is.

You seem really hooked into her and anxious for someone you don't know very well or very long. Did you read the article here about how a BPD relationship begins?

You can't fix another person. It's not your job. You can't fix her or her perceptions.

All counsel and tools provided on this board are really geared toward helping you to take care of yourself,  to understand and provide for your own well being... .to fix yourself, so to speak, not another person.

You won't be able to fix her. Understanding and addressing your own anxiety and pull toward this person would be helpful; that's something you can fix and have some control over. You only have control over yourself, not your ex.

[Diana82]

well, the other thing is... when she was raging she said to me "I don't know what you're trying to get out of this. If you were clear it would help... but you like me, you hate me, you have inane conversations with me and get mad at me. It's confusing!"   

and that's the second time she has told me she doesn't know "what I'm trying to get out of this"... and this was after I had called her to apologise.

It seems like she feels targeted by me or something.

I guess I am confused as to what to do next, if anything.

She only told me 3 weeks ago she misses me... and then in her rage told me have "nothing in common and bring no benefits to each others lives". And then we made up... and apologised to each other and said we would leave things be and then she started insulting me again and sent me that article.

A part of me feels like giving it a week more of silence. And then checking in to see how she is... I am concerned for her mental health. That's all. But I don't know if I will hear back now

[Diana82]

you are right Maybeso... I know I can't fix anyone.

I think the reason I have put up with all of this, is because I am inherently a 'fixer' personality. I could have ignored her ages ago... I could have ignored her insults and lash outs.

Instead... I've analysed them... .tried to make sense of her and get to the bottom of why she is so angry at me. When she can hardly explain it herself. She's the one who told me "I don't feel myself around you and I don't know what it is you say/do".

Even this comment is something I have wanted to analyse! I've been thinking "why? what do I do to make her feel so uncomfortable? what can I do better to make her feel comfortable? Do I need to change something in me?"   

[MaybeSo]

probably you need to work on acceptance... .acceptance  that this is a disorder.  that it's real. and that it has little or nothing to do with you specifically.

there are coping tools and communication tools to help navigate the confusing waters of BPD... but they take a lot of commitment, and time... .it's an investment.  often those here are deep into a r/s already or married with kids etc. by the time they get here.

this disorder exists. you happened to meet someone with it. it happens.

I'm sorry. it's a hard reality to accept.

[Diana82]

Well, to be honest I don't know if she has BPD. She hasn't been diagnosed as far as I know. I am only assuming she is.

It did cross my mind she may be back on drugs. She told me she used to be addicted to speed. And I was aware that she was having the odd joint and pill when she was dating me.

Maybe she is on drugs again and trying to stabilise her moods...

Thing is... .it seems she has a lot of friends and she is a school teacher!

It's hard for me to believe she maintains other relationships. Let alone a job teaching kids...

Can BPDs have lots of friends and be normal at work but show their true selves in intimate relationships?

I feel quite alone suddenly. Like I am the only one who has "seen the beast". Everyone else thinks she is normal and happy and stable. But I know her!

[Diana82]

Although she did tell me that apparently everyone she knows thinks she is crazy.

Not sure if that's true.

I just find it hard to believe she has many friends and her family are lovely and she is a school teacher caring for children. And they haven't all experienced her extreme behaviour.

And she's so cruel to me who hasn't done anything.

It does feel lonely

[MaybeSo]

we like to think it's maybe just all us... .cause it keeps us in a state of false hope and the illusion that we can change them

does it matter if it's BPD? or addiction to drugs? or just a bad fit?

what does it really matter... . the name you give it

it still doesn't change anything.

there are a lot of high functioning folks whose symptoms aren't glaring in public or in casual settings or at work... .

but in intimate attachment relationship ... .things are quite difficult and confusing

She feels everyone thinks she is crazy...

I think you have your answers, maybe you just are not ready yet to fully absorb it. this is pretty common, you are not alone.

what were you focused on and interested in and pleased with in your own life before you met this person?

[Diana82]

Fair enough... I understand your point of view.

Do you think a follow up message is a good idea to keep the peace?

God knows I've tried to keep the peace for the past 3 weeks and its blown up in my face. Or she's given me backhanded apologies.

I feel my message was good but also a bit harsh for someone like her.

[Grey Kitty]

What you describe (BPD or not!) has very little chance of you finding peace in response to anything you say to her. If you decide to have no contact, you can get silence, but that is different from peace. You have to find your own peace, whether you stay with her or stay apart from her.

What kind of peace do you have now that you are trying to keep?

[Diana82]

Hi Greykitty. You ask a good question actually... I don't have any peace to 'keep'!     

I've made many attempts at trying to be friends and keep the peace... .and failed.

So to recap... .after her lash out via text, I had called her leaving a message saying I was hurt and confused at her reaction and that we should try to be peaceful or friendly if possible.

She had calmed down and said she was "devastated" she had upset me and not to 'waste too much energy' on her. I then said I didn't want to upset her any more so perhaps we shouldn't talk on phone for a while etc.

And she said "do you mean we should leave things be for a while?"  and I said yes and reiterated I wanted to be her friend, but just felt a bit stressed at the messages I received as well.

This obviously made her defensive again and she said "I agree. I'm not thick skinned enough to deal with your messages"  and "I'm sorry I reacted like that. I know you didn't mean to attack me, you just have a knack for finding my insecurities! have a lovely day"

Unfortunately- I did not let this go. 

I could have ignored it and stuck to my plan of leaving her be for a while. But I responded saying  "I know you have insecurities, but haven't known what triggers them. If we can be friends one day, it would help to know what upsets you. I'm pretty understanding"

and this triggered her to say she doesn't know what is is I say/do but I 'make' her feel defensive and not herself.

Her opening up to me then triggered ME to respond and be defensive and say that I can't be made responsible for someone else's emotions. Which THEN set her off again. And on a path of victimhood by sending me the article about labelling women crazy 

And this then made me defensive again and I responded with a harsh text.

SO... really... I should have ignored her baiting messages all along.  How do we become better at ignoring the baiting and self destructive messages?

I think if I learned to ignore these, I would be in a better position to be her friend or at least on friendly terms.

[Diana82]

I can see now that I have responded to all her baiting messages... .

And in some way, I think she knows I am a bit weak and will respond and give her the attention she needs.  But then she shuts me down if I don't respond in a way she likes.

Had I ignored her- she would have self soothed... . 

[Diana82]

I think I only have 2 choices... to just give up on our 'friendship' or trying to be peaceful.

Or to contact her with a nice message (not mentioning ANYTHING about her emotions and how she has upset me... ) and say that I am sorry to hear others view her poorly and hope she has a great weekend.

My friend told me... if I write her a nice message, she will respond nicely but likely throw in an insult of how I hurt her. And I can then choose to ignore that but at least I sent her a nice message and took the 'high road'... . 

[123Phoebe]

Had I ignored her- she would have self soothed... . 

Diana, are you finding ways to soothe yourself?  To get lost in your own life, where all of this drama takes a backseat?

I think I only have 2 choices... to just give up on our 'friendship' or trying to be peaceful.

Or to contact her with a nice message (not mentioning ANYTHING about her emotions and how she has upset me... ) and say that I am sorry to hear others view her poorly and hope she has a great weekend.



My friend told me... if I write her a nice message, she will respond nicely but likely throw in an insult of how I hurt her. And I can then choose to ignore that but at least I sent her a nice message and took the 'high road'... . 

Can I ask how you'd feel receiving this message from her?  Would you think it was a nice message?  Or would you be scratching your head wondering what she means by it? 

What are you truly trying to convey to her; how would you like her to interpret your message?  And how would you like this relationship to develop?

When we get clear with ourselves it's easier to express our desires... .

[Diana82]

I want her to know that I know she has "issues"  but that I don't view her as "crazy".   And that I honestly want good things for her.

She has many good qualities and was very generous to me while we were dating. I don't view her as malicious. I feel she definitely has a disorder but is unfortunately not willing to seek help for it and just views herself as being sensitive or such.

I have been distracted by her 'baiting' style messages and have taken a lot of it personally as it's hard not to. And have tried to rationalise with her when it's clear I can't.

I just don't know how to let her know this, without engulfing her or making her explode again... .

[Diana82]

I know it sounds odd but I want to be on friendly terms with her for my own peace. I'm not saying I want to get back into something with her as I think now that would never work out.

I am the type of person who hates leaving things on bad terms. I don't tend to cut people off either.