Never hear from them again because it brings them shame? another failure?

[Tryingnottoslip]

Hi all,

I had a dream with her today. Those dreams that stay with you all day, those dreams that are basically a calling from your subconscious mind.

well... .I'm sure this is probably the most banal question on here but what the heck might as well ask... .and please, I know it's for the best but I don't want to hear... "keep your mind off her, it impedes your recovery" It's just one of those friggin' days

I haven't heard a peep from her in 2 years. I have not contacted her and I have made it extraordinary clear to never contact me again. I know she's moved on, has had sex with numerous men, traveled etc. I don't know anything else, these are things I've heard from friends. She actually still communicates with my family albeit they were never close. 

I never got any closure and I never heard from her again.

Do some of them go off the grid permanently because they know? they realize that they are the ultimate reason that the relationship failed?

I have heard up to high heaven that Bpd is a shame-based disorder... .is this another shameful scenario that they run away from?

Or could it simply mean, I didn't mean sh!t to her and I was expunged from her memory.

I don't know what to think exactly, it's a conglomeration of thoughts, a heterogenous mixture of just "She hasn't contacted me because she feels shame, maybe she doenst care, maybe my boundaries have made it clear"

[fromheeltoheal]

please, I know it's for the best but I don't want to hear... "keep your mind off her, it impedes your recovery"

I say no, repressing things impedes your recovery.  Mine showed up in dreams all the time for a while, but she hasn't made an appearance in a long time, and I say it's because my subconscious is purged of her.  I also say think, think, think, get it all up and out, punch something that won't care, whatever, and in time it will run its course.  Processing and purging are better than repressing.

2 years is a pretty long time though, don't know how long your relationship lasted, but ongoing rumination is not purging, and there are tools to help with that.

Mine tried to contact me for a few months after the break up and then stopped.  I figure she finally got the hint, but I don't know, and more importantly I don't care.  Pretty much none of my ex girlfriends have contacted me again, and sure, some of the relationships ended badly, some didn't, but I don't take that to mean they're mired in shame or guilt or whatever, or that they're still pissed off, they have just moved on, and so have I.  We had some good times, we had some ugly times, it was a slice of life and an experience we shared; I don't have negative thoughts towards any of them anymore including the borderline, because I have healed and reframed the events to serve me.

So I'm curious, why does it matter?  :)etachment and healing are non-linear, and a bad day pops up every now and then, but do you spend undue time and emotional energy on her consistently?  Maybe you're right where you're supposed to be or maybe you need some help and some more work?  Take care of you!

[starshine]

Hi all,

I had a dream with her today. Those dreams that stay with you all day, those dreams that are basically a calling from your subconscious mind.

well... .I'm sure this is probably the most banal question on here but what the heck might as well ask... .and please, I know it's for the best but I don't want to hear... "keep your mind off her, it impedes your recovery" It's just one of those friggin' days

I haven't heard a peep from her in 2 years. I have not contacted her and I have made it extraordinary clear to never contact me again. I know she's moved on, has had sex with numerous men, traveled etc. I don't know anything else, these are things I've heard from friends. She actually still communicates with my family albeit they were never close. 

I never got any closure and I never heard from her again.



Do some of them go off the grid permanently because they know? they realize that they are the ultimate reason that the relationship failed?

I have heard up to high heaven that Bpd is a shame-based disorder... .is this another shameful scenario that they run away from?

Or could it simply mean, I didn't mean sh!t to her and I was expunged from her memory.

I don't know what to think exactly, it's a conglomeration of thoughts, a heterogenous mixture of just "She hasn't contacted me because she feels shame, maybe she doenst care, maybe my boundaries have made it clear"

In italiacs:  I understand.  It's been over 2 years since my breakup, and I've never heard from my ex either. I also immediately went into nc mode- the level of betrayal was so deep and painful I couldn't bear to participate in any conversations with him about anything.  I've never had any closure.  It's very difficult and painful to go from having my SO try to "make love" with me in the morning to having me moved out that day and moved on within 4 days.  It's hard to imagine that someone we built a life with could just do such cruel things, but it's the reality of our situation.  I'm sorry you're going through this- I completely understand where you are at.  I still struggle with the fact that my entire life was a mirage, and basically I've been left out in the desert and the tribe has moved on. 

In bold:  That is creepy.  I had to ask my family to unfriend him from FB.  I am sorry your family still interacts with your ex.  Maybe you could talk with them about this?  There is no reason for that kind of contact, other than to keep a toe in the door. 

My ex tells people that the reason we broke up was that I moved out.  Nothing about the fact that he packed all my stuff and loaded it onto the moving truck.  I'm not sure what goes on in his head, because basically everything he ever said to me is suspect now.  I can't believe that he said such beautiful things to me for years, and one day ended it all with no warning.  I feel sorry for him, in some ways.  I'm a great person and will be a catch for the right person if I can ever heal my heart from this and the PTSD. 

I don't know how I'd react if he ever contacted me.  I'm sure there is a deep well of shame in that man, and I don't imagine that he has the internal strength to look at his own behavior and make amends.  No way.  He and my replacement never even said "I'm sorry for the bad behavior"- and I was the one that paid with losing my house, my community, my assets.  I hope they both rot in hell.  That may be harsh, but that's how I feel.

[Changingman]

Shame on them, shame on them they are destruction in themselves and others.

[Learning_curve74]

Hey Trying, I think you ask a very reasonable question, especially considering that the majority of people on the leaving board seem to get continued contact from their exes after the break up.

Just like everybody is different, each person with BPD is different. I think what you say about the shame your ex feels is probably a big reason behind her going silent. She also may have the feeling that you would not be one to give her what she is looking for, maybe feels that you're too smart to fall for her again especially when you made it clear that she shouldn't contact you.

It's almost four months since I told my exBPDgf it was over, and while I don't know how many of the unknown and unrecognized number phone calls were from or instigated by her, she only texted me once which I ignored. A mutual friend related to me that the exBPDgf told her that I was a good person and deserved better than her. So I'd bet that at least in the case of my exBPDgf that she feels shame in imploding yet another relationship with her behavior.

I'm sure your ex remembers you since she still is in contact with your family. I think BPD people live a lot in the past, even though they might not necessarily all show it, because that is the only thing that is sure and stable about them.

Trying, you said it's been two years. Do you feel this dream was just a blip? How are you doing? Are you doing things to take care of yourself?

[Tryingnottoslip]

thank you all for the reply.

Learningcurve,

I am doing well actually. I hate to admit it but I do carry some 'scars' fromthis relationship. It traumatized me the first 6 months post break up. I actually go on dates, have fun, enjoy life. There are times where I just go into a funk. I was driving the other day and some song from Pink (just give me a reason) came on the radio and the lyrics resonated profoundly within me. "We're not broken just bent and we can learn to love again" sounded like my BPDex. Since then, I started thinking about her.

Why does she still engage in small contact with my family? why hasnt she contacted me? For someone whom I thought a lot about post break up... .I wonder if she has as well, it's only human natur. The no closure was the worst part.

[woke up]

Dreams are a big trigger in my opinion.  I caught my BPDex cheating Oct 13th of this year and texted her to never contact me again, and she hasn't.  The first few weeks were brutal with withdrawals and all, but then the nervousness in my legs started to subside and things got progressively better.  However, about 3 days ago, I had a dream with her and things have gone a bit backwards since.  Though I don't want her to contact me, I often wonder why she hasn't.  Is it because she is so wrapped up in the new guy, whom she has already professed love for (according to her sister), or is it that she really is ashamed of having hurt me, or she simply doesn't care because her needs are being met by the new guy?  In any case one has to work through this and keep moving forward.  I think we all know that they were toxic for us, and I re-read all the bad things she did as a reminder whenever I get like this, it certainly helps.  I also keep a rubber band on my wrist and when I start thinking about her, I snap the band and visualized a traffic Stop Sign and say stop in my mind.  These two things have helped me to stop thinking about her. 

[Tryingnottoslip]

smart move with the rubber band woke up,

I vascillate with my thinknig about her. Some days I am greatful she is gone, some days I don't think about her at all and unfortuantely some days I can't stop thinking why she hasnt contacted me, why no closure?

In her mind, is she permanently avoiding me because of the shame she feels because yet another person/relationship has been hurt/failed because of her?

[HarmKrakow]

thank you all for the reply.

Learningcurve,

I am doing well actually. I hate to admit it but I do carry some 'scars' fromthis relationship. It traumatized me the first 6 months post break up. I actually go on dates, have fun, enjoy life. There are times where I just go into a funk. I was driving the other day and some song from Pink (just give me a reason) came on the radio and the lyrics resonated profoundly within me. "We're not broken just bent and we can learn to love again" sounded like my BPDex. Since then, I started thinking about her.

Why does she still engage in small contact with my family? why hasnt she contacted me? For someone whom I thought a lot about post break up... .I wonder if she has as well, it's only human natur. The no closure was the worst part.

How is that a problem that you carry some scars from that relationship? How is it a problem that it traumatized you for a long period? How is that NOT normal behavior? Because to me it all is and it's completely beside me why you are so hard on yourself after you already got hurt so much by your ex!

[woke up]

I don't know Trying, but we may never have closure in that regard.  Coming to grips with that reality is a task that we must work through.  Some days that task is easy, other days not so much, but as long as progress is being made (no matter how little), that's all that matters.  

[Tryingnottoslip]

harmkrakow,

I thank you for your post. I don't know what to say other than I don't know why I am hard on myself. I guess it's a mix of people saying "cmon man get over it, there plenty of fish out there, the usual cliche stuff, makes me feel that there is something wrong and that I should get over it ASAP. Irrational thinking of course.

Wokeup,

agreed. I've tried to give myself closure and it helped out a lot. I guess I just want her to pop out of the blue say that she effed up an apology and that's it. I'll feel 10 pounds lighter. But nevertheless, It's me who has to give myself a proper closure.

[ShadowDancer]

But nevertheless, It's me who has to give myself a proper closure.[/quote]
Bingo!

[HarmKrakow]

harmkrakow,

I thank you for your post. I don't know what to say other than I don't know why I am hard on myself. I guess it's a mix of people saying "cmon man get over it, there plenty of fish out there, the usual cliche stuff, makes me feel that there is something wrong and that I should get over it ASAP. Irrational thinking of course.

Been there done that.

Unfortunately the majority of your friends have not been into the disaster of a BPD relationship. I've had the exact same reactions of my friends. Cmon man... get over it? Jeez... what a p#ssy... you still not over her? Damn dude... grow a pair of bollocks ... I know man, serious, 9/10 friends told me the exact same. The 1 friend who did know about BPD told me, take all your time brother. And that's what we should do. It's one of the reasons why i tried to explain borderline personality disorder to my closest friends and they know all have BPD radars hanging around them ( )

[Tryingnottoslip]

Harm,

That's the worst. It truly is, I'm not going to lie and say I'm over her but I have been able to move on with my life in many many aspects. Unfortunately as you know, it's hard to just forget someone who gave us so much to remember good or bad.

There are just days that I will be having a couple of beers with my friends and the convo of ex girlfriends come up and I'd like to ask, do you guys think she still thinks about me? I mean she still does small contact here and there with my family. I just don't want to hear, AW COME ON MAN MAN UP! It's been two years! Jesus.

[HarmKrakow]

Harm,

That's the worst. It truly is, I'm not going to lie and say I'm over her but I have been able to move on with my life in many many aspects. Unfortunately as you know, it's hard to just forget someone who gave us so much to remember good or bad.

There are just days that I will be having a couple of beers with my friends and the convo of ex girlfriends come up and I'd like to ask, do you guys think she still thinks about me? I mean she still does small contact here and there with my family. I just don't want to hear, AW COME ON MAN MAN UP! It's been two years! Jesus.

Moving on and detachment is something different. I've come across a really good post describing this.

Moving on and detaching aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes. We can try to "forget" about them, block them from our memories, block them from FACEbook, keep ourselves busy, date others, repress our memories, or hate and despise them until they explode into tiny pieces in our minds but that is not detaching. All of those actions keep them very alive in our hearts, minds and subconscious.

When we are active in our detachment we use the personal insight part of ourselves to discover the intricate complexities of the disorder of BPD, Narcissism and we explore the "whys" of desiring to be with someone who lacks the capacity to  treat us well and share with us mature reciprocal love.

Stumbling blocks are certainly a part of this journey but you must realize that a person with BPD is a very sick person, an emotionally stunted and damaged child, and a person who is given way too much power and influence over our lives due to our own self-worth issues. Forget the two dimension image of blood and bone. Our ex's are a storehouse of core damaged wounds, psychic trauma, abandonment trauma, and a shattered history of pain that existed way before we entered the picture.

It is a toxic dance that takes two to tango but in order for you to unhook you've got to look within.

I'm not sure how far out you are houseofswans but I can testify that it took me an entire year of rumination, hating my ex, wanting to see him suffer and fail, and living in a cave of toxic but addictive memories that keep me stuck in the neutrality of not wanting to let go. I wasn't detaching and was used to emotional avoidance and living in a state of confusion as a coping mechanism to not face the brutal honesty of how I really felt about myself.

You need answers but I can guarantee they won't come from your ex. It takes courage to face your own demons, psychic trauma, and your feelings of abandonment. I certainly resented having to feel my own feelings but it is a very necessary part of breaking the toxic bond and hold that our ex's have on us.

I have fully moved on, I live in a new house, new city, new bed, new people, new job, new everything. That doesn't mean the EX is still every day in my head and i'm mourning every day the same about her.

[Tryingnottoslip]

Amazing and startling.

I thought I was doing the right thing by blocking, keeping to nc like a religious fanatic, not hearing about her. I thought doing this would help me move forward and forget about her. I thought that distance and time made the heart grow colder and eventually to a point of ambivalence. This is my first relationship with a pwBPD and I am in uncharted territory. Most ex girlfriends I got over with in a couple of months but this... .I don't know. I vacillate between not thinking about her, being hopeful about the future, to just down right depression. I miss her so f#cking much sometimes. I want to hold her, be with her, but it could never happen, I see it the same way I view a loved one that died.

How do I detach? I don't know. I hate that she still has hundreds of photos of us, I hate that she makes small contact here and there with family because it leads me to believe that I am on her mind.

I have given her the utmost power in my mind. I don't see her as a damaged tortured person. I see her as a dark demonic force that could cripple me with just a few words.

Sorry for the rant, how are you detaching?

[ShadowDancer]

Lettin go and lettin God!

[fromheeltoheal]

Amazing and startling.

I thought I was doing the right thing by blocking, keeping to nc like a religious fanatic, not hearing about her. I thought doing this would help me move forward and forget about her. I thought that distance and time made the heart grow colder and eventually to a point of ambivalence. This is my first relationship with a pwBPD and I am in uncharted territory. Most ex girlfriends I got over with in a couple of months but this... .I don't know. I vacillate between not thinking about her, being hopeful about the future, to just down right depression. I miss her so f#cking much sometimes. I want to hold her, be with her, but it could never happen, I see it the same way I view a loved one that died.

How do I detach? I don't know. I hate that she still has hundreds of photos of us, I hate that she makes small contact here and there with family because it leads me to believe that I am on her mind.

I have given her the utmost power in my mind. I don't see her as a damaged tortured person. I see her as a dark demonic force that could cripple me with just a few words.

Sorry for the rant, how are you detaching?

By learning about the disorder, the clinical side of it, which helps me depersonalize it and realize the reality of what we had, a loaded bond.

By realizing what I miss is the way I felt alive when I was with her, not her specifically, I don't even like her.

By realizing what happened between us was supposed to because I had growth to do and I was ready.

By focusing on a new, improved me in a bright future, one that does not include her.

[laelle]

My stock kept crashing and I had to stop investing in it.  Investing in myself is a safer and more abundant decision to make.

Pain can not cure my pain.  He brought me pain.

He and I are to the point where we can only trigger each others pain.  I do not want pain for myself, and on some days I do not want him to drown in a pool of green jello either. 

I truly love him, and I understand that he does not have the ability to truly love me back.

[fromheeltoheal]

I do not want him to drown in a pool of green jello either. 

Gnarly!  Chocolate pudding might be fun too?

[HarmKrakow]

Amazing and startling.

I thought I was doing the right thing by blocking, keeping to nc like a religious fanatic, not hearing about her. I thought doing this would help me move forward and forget about her. I thought that distance and time made the heart grow colder and eventually to a point of ambivalence. This is my first relationship with a pwBPD and I am in uncharted territory. Most ex girlfriends I got over with in a couple of months but this... .I don't know. I vacillate between not thinking about her, being hopeful about the future, to just down right depression. I miss her so f#cking much sometimes. I want to hold her, be with her, but it could never happen, I see it the same way I view a loved one that died.

I am in the same boat. I have moved on, physically. I live in a new town, in a new house, in a new bed, with a new kitchen. No memories of her here. None. I do other stuff, other hobbies and meet other people. One would think, that there is improvement in the 'i miss her less' category. There isn't. I'd take her back within a second. Now is that wise? No ...

I know she already went over a few boyfriends probably (at least 1, the rest is guessing). I miss her so much it's painful. But it's indeed not just the missing. It's the holding, the touching, the love making, the comforting, the everything. Waking up next to her in bed etc. All of it. I would cross an ocean for a day of re-living that honeymoon phase. Seriously.

How do I detach? I don't know. I hate that she still has hundreds of photos of us, I hate that she makes small contact here and there with family because it leads me to believe that I am on her mind.

I have given her the utmost power in my mind. I don't see her as a damaged tortured person. I see her as a dark demonic force that could cripple me with just a few words.

Sorry for the rant, how are you detaching?

I also see her as a dark person. But my therapists have been telling me, and even my doctor, high-functioning borderline is like cocaine. Once you sniff it, you want to throw your face in it like scarface and just sniff it all the time. The moment it's gone, it feels literally like something got torn out your body. Like a limp missing.

How do I detach? In the literal sense of the word? I was lucky enough to have recorded over 10 hours of conversation between her and me which I use for psychological evaluation. The crazy, well, really crazy behavior stands out very clearly. And the person I hear on that tape is not even close to the person I have in my head. Other than that I have done a lot of reading on BPD and basically checking the boxes is the ultimate detachment tool for me. There is so much stuff wrong with her it's crazily insane.

But again, you'd ask me, she stand in front of my door and want me back? Mate i'll throw my BPDusername throw the window and close myself of for some days of BPD crazyness. That's how weak I am.

So do I not function at all? Of course I do, I continue my life. Like I said before, everything around me is new. My daily activities are new. New new new ... but Misses BPD doesn't go away that easily.

[ShadowDancer]

Me thinks Freud would have had a field day with that "limp missing" part!

[Tryingnottoslip]

Harm it takes balls to admit that, I don't think I would take her back but I would give in to talking with her and hopefully getting everything I have to say about her off my chest as futile as it may be.

I have had numerous partners before and girlfriends but none of them had the intense bond I shared with her. For gods sake, I had to wipe her behind one day due to a horrible stomach virus she had. Could you imagine the intimacy behind that, if you're still attracted to a woman after that then it's love in my book.

I can say this, I am 29 years old and in my entire life, I have been happiest during the honeymoon phase. Not so much the idealization but just the fun new things we did everything was a novelty.

I read and read as much as I can about BPD and I try to depersonalize it. I try to see her for a sick individual but her actions at times seemed so calculated that I can't just say its BPD. It's a personality disorder not a mental illness in the sense that it cuts off any form of mental reasoning, but I could be wrong.  At the end of the day, I too am crazy. Perhaps crazier than her because I stayed. And I know why I stayed. I've done sufficient 'soul' searching in these past two years.

Why do I still think about her. You harm, I am hard on myself because as disordered as she is, she walked out of this relationship from what I observed, unscathed and readily available to have sex with numerous men past me. That in itself is disordered but I hope I am making sense. I am literally comparing my recovery with her recovery (which does not exist)

I want her to hear or see that I am doing better. I want it to sting a bit, even if it hurts for a matter of 5 min. Why do I care? I wasted 2 years with her + 2 years trying to heal from the wounds. Man, if I could get those 5 min... .I'd pack my bags and never look back at this relationship.

[HarmKrakow]

Harm it takes balls to admit that, I don't think I would take her back but I would give in to talking with her and hopefully getting everything I have to say about her off my chest as futile as it may be.

I have had numerous partners before and girlfriends but none of them had the intense bond I shared with her. For gods sake, I had to wipe her behind one day due to a horrible stomach virus she had. Could you imagine the intimacy behind that, if you're still attracted to a woman after that then it's love in my book.

I can say this, I am 29 years old and in my entire life, I have been happiest during the honeymoon phase. Not so much the idealization but just the fun new things we did everything was a novelty.

I read and read as much as I can about BPD and I try to depersonalize it. I try to see her for a sick individual but her actions at times seemed so calculated that I can't just say its BPD. It's a personality disorder not a mental illness in the sense that it cuts off any form of mental reasoning, but I could be wrong.  At the end of the day, I too am crazy. Perhaps crazier than her because I stayed. And I know why I stayed. I've done sufficient 'soul' searching in these past two years.

Why do I still think about her. You harm, I am hard on myself because as disordered as she is, she walked out of this relationship from what I observed, unscathed and readily available to have sex with numerous men past me. That in itself is disordered but I hope I am making sense. I am literally comparing my recovery with her recovery (which does not exist)

I want her to hear or see that I am doing better. I want it to sting a bit, even if it hurts for a matter of 5 min. Why do I care? I wasted 2 years with her + 2 years trying to heal from the wounds. Man, if I could get those 5 min... .I'd pack my bags and never look back at this relationship.

Im fully with ya for the 100%

[sm15000]

I have fully moved on, I live in a new house, new city, new bed, new people, new job, new everything. That doesn't mean the EX is still every day in my head and i'm mourning every day the same about her.

Thanks for posting this. . .I'm a bit relieved to know it's not just me   I have been out of a 13 yr r/s for over 2 years, haven't seen him for 2, complete NC for about 18 months after I'd told him I wasn't interested in keeping touch, and I felt I'd be made a fool of for long enough.

The other day I heard through the grapevine, as the song goes, that he has someone regularly in his life.  It sent me down into sadness again.  I just thought of us in those early days and know that he, no doubt, will be going through his same charming motions with someone else.  I miss him and those times terribly, still.

However, I have learnt to accept that those times were wonderful, they were just not meant to last. . .and when the bad times came, I had to decide - could I, would I accept this or not.  It had to be not.  It is important to me to hold those values.

But as the counsellor said "you get hooked". . .and I'm like the rest of you, if I had contact with him, it would be dangerous - I'd be at serious risk of getting sucked in.  Sometimes, with the distance I've had, and reading I've done, I think I could handle him, it better. . .but I'm not sure, I think I would always be the casualty.

I am hard on myself because as disordered as she is, she walked out of this relationship from what I observed, unscathed and readily available to have sex with numerous men past me. That in itself is disordered but I hope I am making sense. I am literally comparing my recovery with her recovery (which does not exist)

This has kept me hooked.  I've imagined him feeling the same as me, wanting me back, missing me etc etc. . .and this can't be true.  He was involved with other women at the end, and I don't think has been truly alone since we ended.  He used to make out he was but his actions said something totally different.  I think that was the cruellest of the lot.

[Changingman]

If that car crash that crippled me could feel remorse, if the stairs I fell down could cry, if that cupboard door I banged my head on could feel bad!

If the monster that cut up my insides could feel the pain they put me through!

This is magical thinking, they are seriously deranged, if the hell they live with is to be believed, what to them is our pain?

Drink you monsters, drink to numb the pain while I choose to get stronger.

[fromheeltoheal]

I read and read as much as I can about BPD and I try to depersonalize it. I try to see her for a sick individual but her actions at times seemed so calculated that I can't just say its BPD. It's a personality disorder not a mental illness in the sense that it cuts off any form of mental reasoning, but I could be wrong. 

Something that helped me is realizing that the core issue for a borderline is they never detached from their primary caregiver and became an autonomous human when they were less than 3 years old or so, long before their brain had developed enough to think rationally and still very much formative, so their experience of the situation got hardwired into their personality and is subconscious.

So everything moving forward is an attempt to reestablish that attachment with a replacement, you, then feeling engulfed, pushing you away, feeling abandoned, pulling you back, on and on, stuck in that place between 'one' with another and their own 'self'.  That is where all the convoluted bullsht originates, and then throw in the emotional retardation that makes a borderline unable to see how they are affecting people as adults, and the resulting behavior seems mean, cruel, coldhearted, manipulative, and calculated.  But going back to the genesis of the behavior explains everything, just don't get any on ya.

[HarmKrakow]

I have fully moved on, I live in a new house, new city, new bed, new people, new job, new everything. That doesn't mean the EX is still every day in my head and i'm mourning every day the same about her.

Thanks for posting this. . .I'm a bit relieved to know it's not just me   I have been out of a 13 yr r/s for over 2 years, haven't seen him for 2, complete NC for about 18 months after I'd told him I wasn't interested in keeping touch, and I felt I'd be made a fool of for long enough.

The other day I heard through the grapevine, as the song goes, that he has someone regularly in his life.  It sent me down into sadness again.  I just thought of us in those early days and know that he, no doubt, will be going through his same charming motions with someone else.  I miss him and those times terribly, still.

However, I have learnt to accept that those times were wonderful, they were just not meant to last. . .and when the bad times came, I had to decide - could I, would I accept this or not.  It had to be not.  It is important to me to hold those values.

But as the counsellor said "you get hooked". . .and I'm like the rest of you, if I had contact with him, it would be dangerous - I'd be at serious risk of getting sucked in.  Sometimes, with the distance I've had, and reading I've done, I think I could handle him, it better. . .but I'm not sure, I think I would always be the casualty.

I am hard on myself because as disordered as she is, she walked out of this relationship from what I observed, unscathed and readily available to have sex with numerous men past me. That in itself is disordered but I hope I am making sense. I am literally comparing my recovery with her recovery (which does not exist)

This has kept me hooked.  I've imagined him feeling the same as me, wanting me back, missing me etc etc. . .and this can't be true.  He was involved with other women at the end, and I don't think has been truly alone since we ended.  He used to make out he was but his actions said something totally different.  I think that was the cruellest of the lot.

I have the same issues. If she'd be back right now I would believe again from day 1 on wards that i'm strong enough to keep the r/s together. That is not going to work out of course . I had a few 2 many drinks last night and ended up, again, emailing her. Haven't had the guts to check my mail. It happens. I seek for something I will never find while maintaining my normal life. Continuous going on, new hobbies, started cooking more. New habits, new rituals. The whole lot.

But the insides of my brain are still guarded by my BPD ex. I often wonder if I give her power over me or whether or not she takes power over me. I don't know.  

[HarmKrakow]

I read and read as much as I can about BPD and I try to depersonalize it. I try to see her for a sick individual but her actions at times seemed so calculated that I can't just say its BPD. It's a personality disorder not a mental illness in the sense that it cuts off any form of mental reasoning, but I could be wrong. 

Something that helped me is realizing that the core issue for a borderline is they never detached from their primary caregiver and became an autonomous human when they were less than 3 years old or so, long before their brain had developed enough to think rationally and still very much formative, so their experience of the situation got hardwired into their personality and is subconscious.

So everything moving forward is an attempt to reestablish that attachment with a replacement, you, then feeling engulfed, pushing you away, feeling abandoned, pulling you back, on and on, stuck in that place between 'one' with another and their own 'self'.  That is where all the convoluted bullsht originates, and then throw in the emotional retardation that makes a borderline unable to see how they are affecting people as adults, and the resulting behavior seems mean, cruel, coldhearted, manipulative, and calculated.  But going back to the genesis of the behavior explains everything, just don't get any on ya.

Good point. Fairly aware of this. Shame that that doesn't always help to fully detach.

It's like ... she IS crazy.

OK!

...

So detach!

...

...

Doesn't work :' (

[fromheeltoheal]

I read and read as much as I can about BPD and I try to depersonalize it. I try to see her for a sick individual but her actions at times seemed so calculated that I can't just say its BPD. It's a personality disorder not a mental illness in the sense that it cuts off any form of mental reasoning, but I could be wrong.  

Something that helped me is realizing that the core issue for a borderline is they never detached from their primary caregiver and became an autonomous human when they were less than 3 years old or so, long before their brain had developed enough to think rationally and still very much formative, so their experience of the situation got hardwired into their personality and is subconscious.

So everything moving forward is an attempt to reestablish that attachment with a replacement, you, then feeling engulfed, pushing you away, feeling abandoned, pulling you back, on and on, stuck in that place between 'one' with another and their own 'self'.  That is where all the convoluted bullsht originates, and then throw in the emotional retardation that makes a borderline unable to see how they are affecting people as adults, and the resulting behavior seems mean, cruel, coldhearted, manipulative, and calculated.  But going back to the genesis of the behavior explains everything, just don't get any on ya.

Good point. Fairly aware of this. Shame that that doesn't always help to fully detach.

It's like ... she IS crazy.

OK!

...

So detach!

...

...

Doesn't work :' (

It worked for me, but OK, try this: I realized that what I missed was the feeling of being alive that I got from my borderline, not her specifically, in fact I don't even like her.  She lives in a world of perpetual chaos precipitated by the disorder, which kept me on edge full time, which felt like being intensely alive.  I liken it to how we feel when we're faced with an emergency, an intense situation where we're reacting, not acting, and later we think back and discover we felt completely alive in that situation.

The other piece that worked for me is to realize what we had was a fantasy, a buzz, a high, not sustainable emotions that can lead to long term love and commitment.  I liken it to alcohol, cocaine, meth, pot, intoxicating substances that speak to that part of our brain that wants that buzz, wants that feel-good, even when we know it's not good for us, could potentially destroy us, yet we do it anyway.  That unobtainable high that is the best the first time, and we keep going back to it again and again looking for that same high, but it's never as good as the first time.  That's not love, it's addiction.  Maybe this site could be called Bordelines Anonymous.