Were you or are you in a TOXIC relationship?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I found this article online about toxic relationships that was very illuminating. It was incredible for me to read. Of the eight "styles" of toxic partners, my exBPDgf ticks off the boxes on all eight! She was also nine of nine on the traits listed in DSM for diagnosing BPD. I'm so good at picking a winner! Anybody want to go to the racetrack with me to lose a fortune in record time? 

www.healthscopemag.com/toxic-relationships

A few good quotes:

By definition, a toxic relationship is a relationship characterized by behaviors on the part of the toxic partner that are emotionally and, not infrequently, physically damaging to their partner. While a healthy relationship contributes to our self-esteem and emotional energy, a toxic relationship damages self-esteem and drains energy.

As mentioned above, however, dysfunction is the norm in a toxic relationship. The toxic partner engages in inappropriate controlling and manipulative behaviors on pretty much a daily basis. Paradoxically, to the outside world, the toxic partner often behaves in an exemplary manner.

Note:  Any relationship involving physical violence or substance abuse is by definition extremely toxic and requires immediate intervention and, with very few exceptions, separation of the two partners. While these relationships are not necessarily irreparable, I cannot emphasize too much how destructive they are. If you’re in such a relationship, get help now!

[Learning_curve74]

I found this article online about toxic relationships that was very illuminating. It was incredible for me to read. Of the eight "styles" of toxic partners, my exBPDgf ticks off the boxes on all eight! She was also nine of nine on the traits listed in DSM for diagnosing BPD. I'm so good at picking a winner! Anybody want to go to the racetrack with me to lose a fortune in record time? 

www.healthscopemag.com/toxic-relationships

A few good quotes:

By definition, a toxic relationship is a relationship characterized by behaviors on the part of the toxic partner that are emotionally and, not infrequently, physically damaging to their partner. While a healthy relationship contributes to our self-esteem and emotional energy, a toxic relationship damages self-esteem and drains energy.

As mentioned above, however, dysfunction is the norm in a toxic relationship. The toxic partner engages in inappropriate controlling and manipulative behaviors on pretty much a daily basis. Paradoxically, to the outside world, the toxic partner often behaves in an exemplary manner.

Note:  Any relationship involving physical violence or substance abuse is by definition extremely toxic and requires immediate intervention and, with very few exceptions, separation of the two partners. While these relationships are not necessarily irreparable, I cannot emphasize too much how destructive they are. If you’re in such a relationship, get help now!

[laelle]

Wow, this one is amazingly accurate...

The “Independent” (Non-Dependable) Toxic Controller

This individual frequently disguises his or her toxic controlling behavior as simply asserting his or her “independence.” “I’m not going to let anyone control me” is their motto. This toxic individual will only rarely keep his or her commitments. Actually, what these individuals are up to is controlling you by keeping you uncertain about what they’re going to do. Non-dependables will say they’ll call you, they’ll take the kids to a movie Saturday, they’ll etc. etc., but then they don’t. Something always comes up. They usually have a plausible excuse, but they simply don’t keep their commitments. As a result, they control you by making it next to impossible for you to make commitments or plans.

What’s even more distressing is that this type of toxic individual does not make you feel safe and secure in your relationship. It’s not just their behavior that’s unpredictable; you’re never quite sure that they are really emotionally committed to you, that you and your relationship with them are a priority in their life. You’ll often find yourself asking for reassurance from them, reassurance that they love you, find you attractive, are committed to your marriage, etc. Their response is often just vague enough to keep you constantly guessing, and is designed to keep you doing what they want to “earn” their commitment. The anxiety you feel in such a relationship can, and often does, eat away at your emotional and physical health.

[goldylamont]

lc74 this is a great article, thanks for posting. yes i can see pretty much all of the types in my ex. although i believe in less intense (or passive) ways than others. also, she wasn't so much of a guilt-inducer, or maybe i'm just not one to give into this tactic.

it was this that really caught my attention, put into words how i felt about my ex and narcissism:

But aren’t controlling individuals often narcissistic, don’t they simply have inflated egos, believe they’re entitled to everything they want at no cost to themselves?

Occasionally, particularly in the case of the toxic user, narcissism may be part of the problem, but narcissism itself is often a reaction to underlying insecurity.

during our r/s i would never have thought about describing my ex as narcissistic, perhaps i was somewhat blind to this but i honestly think her behavior wasn't like this so much while we were together. after the breakup though, when full on warfare ensued, i saw very narcissistic behavior (not just to me but to others). i playfully have called my xuBPD a 'lazy' or 'part-time' narcissist :-) as in, not most of the time, but when she is it's a reflection of her underlying insecurity and thus need to control.

[Mutt]

Sounds exactly like my relationship with my ex. I'm thankful that the replacement took her off of my hands.

It's nice coming home everyday and not have to walk through a landmine not knowing what I will be accused of or what fight she will pick for something I didn't do. I used to dread when my days off were coming up.

I sleep better, I don't feel drained and I don't feel like the other shoe is constantly going to fall of the other foot. I feel more relaxed. I feel myself and I don't have to worry about someone else's real/imagined feelings all of the time.

I'm working on myself so I don't fall into this trap with the next person. The red flag radar is on!

I'm taking a full 2 years off. I did try to date through the internet a few weeks back but I kiboshed that.


Thanks for sharing OP!

[ThisIsMyNamelol]

Wow, this one is amazingly accurate...

The “Independent” (Non-Dependable) Toxic Controller

This individual frequently disguises his or her toxic controlling behavior as simply asserting his or her “independence.” “I’m not going to let anyone control me” is their motto. This toxic individual will only rarely keep his or her commitments. Actually, what these individuals are up to is controlling you by keeping you uncertain about what they’re going to do. Non-dependables will say they’ll call you, they’ll take the kids to a movie Saturday, they’ll etc. etc., but then they don’t. Something always comes up. They usually have a plausible excuse, but they simply don’t keep their commitments. As a result, they control you by making it next to impossible for you to make commitments or plans.

What’s even more distressing is that this type of toxic individual does not make you feel safe and secure in your relationship. It’s not just their behavior that’s unpredictable; you’re never quite sure that they are really emotionally committed to you, that you and your relationship with them are a priority in their life. You’ll often find yourself asking for reassurance from them, reassurance that they love you, find you attractive, are committed to your marriage, etc. Their response is often just vague enough to keep you constantly guessing, and is designed to keep you doing what they want to “earn” their commitment. The anxiety you feel in such a relationship can, and often does, eat away at your emotional and physical health.

This is pretty much what my ex accused me of at the end of the relationship. And, honestly, I kind of have to agree with her. But I'm usually a dependable guy, and I know I wasn't doing it to control her. I was just so damn exhausted from her, and I was too confused and lost to realize it, so, subconsciously I started pulling away. But nobody wanted to see her happy more than I did. I don't know, the longer I'm out, the more I start to peel away the layers, and realize just how much the little things start to eat at you, and change you from the inside out.

[Octoberfest]

I don't even need to read the article to say YES.

Long before I ever dated my BPDex I talked about toxic relationships... .my definition has always been "relationships where the two people keep breaking up and getting back together and breaking up and getting back together over and over again".  I found myself in exactly that sort of situation with my BPDex and it took me a long time to recognize it, and even when I did I was so far down the rabbit hole that it was a case of me going, "It's different.  You don't understand".

My BPDex brought out the worst in myself and all of those around her.  My best friend went and made out with her.  My close friend went and had sex with her, both instances while she and I were involved.  She brought out intense jealousy, controlling behaviors, and anxiety in me.  When she and I first started dating I made a very conscious choice that I was not going to be a jealous or controlling boyfriend. I knew she still talked to an ex, and I was fine with it.  It was only after I caught her cheating several times, dating multiple men at the same time, that I started making absurd demands like, her not having a password on her phone, her not texting/talking each day and all day long to multiple guys in her classes who were clearly interested in her, her not concealing her relationship status on facebook from people, and other outrageous things. 

Toxic all the way around.  Something that was supposed to be fun and further both of us became a chore and something that dragged me down.

[Turkish]

Wow, this one is amazingly accurate...

The “Independent” (Non-Dependable) Toxic Controller

This individual frequently disguises his or her toxic controlling behavior as simply asserting his or her “independence.” “I’m not going to let anyone control me” is their motto. This toxic individual will only rarely keep his or her commitments. Actually, what these individuals are up to is controlling you by keeping you uncertain about what they’re going to do. Non-dependables will say they’ll call you, they’ll take the kids to a movie Saturday, they’ll etc. etc., but then they don’t. Something always comes up. They usually have a plausible excuse, but they simply don’t keep their commitments. As a result, they control you by making it next to impossible for you to make commitments or plans.

What’s even more distressing is that this type of toxic individual does not make you feel safe and secure in your relationship. It’s not just their behavior that’s unpredictable; you’re never quite sure that they are really emotionally committed to you, that you and your relationship with them are a priority in their life. You’ll often find yourself asking for reassurance from them, reassurance that they love you, find you attractive, are committed to your marriage, etc. Their response is often just vague enough to keep you constantly guessing, and is designed to keep you doing what they want to “earn” their commitment. The anxiety you feel in such a relationship can, and often does, eat away at your emotional and physical health.

The second paragraph defines her feelings... .  towards me.  But this started from the very beginning,  was what she brought with her,  and is typically BPD.  Sorry, x,  that I actually had to put some of my energy into managing us towards responsible financial goals  and more importantly,  tanning care of the two kids  we  BOTH choose to have.

[Traumatized]

I am covered in toxic sludge!  That's exactly what happened to me.

[Suzn]

I'm so good at picking a winner!

Man, so was I. What I learned is that it takes two. Two emotionally immature people for a toxic relationship to exist and continue.

We mate with our emotional equals.  This is Bowen "family systems" theory - developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940’s and early 1950’s when he was a psychiatrist at the Menninger Clinic. After his time at Menninger’s, he moved to the National Institute of Mental Health, to Georgetown University Medical Center and finally established the Georgetown Family Center in Washington, D.C.  Bowen's theories are at the base of much of what is taught in family therapy.

An individual’s overall life functioning is linked closely to his level of emotional maturity or differentiation. People select ... . partners who have the same level of emotional maturity. Emotional immaturity manifests in unrealistic needs and expectations. ~ Murray Bowen, M.D

We mate with our emotional equals.  

A relationship is about two people - as are the relationship problems.

A hallmark of a BPD relationship is emotional immaturity by both partners. Its not about "good people" (us) and "bad people" (them) - if we're totally honest, many of us acted badly too.  

So the solution starts with us.

[Ironmanrises]

I'm so good at picking a winner!

Its not about "good people" (us) and "bad people" (them) - if we're totally honest, many of us acted badly too.  

Acted bad as in how? I don't understand that at all. How did any of us non's on here act bad towards our pwBPD's? Did we emotionally abuse them? Did we give them the silent treatment? Did we up and disappear out of their lives at will, for no real discernible reason? Only to reappear x period of time later. Sure, we put up with god awful behavior and we were not ultimately good to ourselves, but how is that bad to them?

[Perfidy]

Us and them

And after all we're only ordinary men

Me, and you

God only knows it's not what we would choose to do-

                                                                           -pink floyd


I'm guilty of acting poorly toward my ex... No doubt at all. It took many years of her

raging meth use for me to get there. She would not leave my home. Threatened to have me arrested if I brought the law into it. She had the emotional maturity of a three year old. Puh-lease! do not even try to tell me were were on the same level in ANY respect. Emotional or otherwise. Toxic? Ill tell you about toxic... .combine meth use with mental illness... No wonder I'm such a friggin mess... .I wasn't this way when I met her... .NEVER in my life previously. I've had my moments but this is without a doubt a direct result of being paired with a monster for so long. I'm not claiming innocence here. And the whole family of origin dysfunction thing just doesn't wash everything down for me. The addiction to my own endorphins from the super charged drug fueled pornstar sex is what screwed me up the most. That is the addiction. The recovery and withdrawal. The anxiety and depression. Couple that with hopes and dreams built up over YEARS and go figure. Yes! I'm screwed up!

[Suzn]

It is not the hallmark of an emotionally mature person to set aside our own well being for another person. To stay in an unhealthy relationship for a long period of time knowing it is or was unhealthy.

Ironman to answer your question, some of my "bad" behaviors were...

I was controlling, since I was uncomfortable with her behaviors I tried to control her.

I lost my temper and yelled more times than I want to admit but do admit it now.

I wanted to win more than I wanted to problem solve.

I let my emotions and fears get out of hand, they controlled my decisions.    

[Learning_curve74]

It is not the hallmark of an emotionally mature person to set aside our own well being for another person. To stay in an unhealthy relationship for a long period of time knowing it is or was unhealthy.

This is so true. Yes, we were compassionate and caring, but we were also emotionally immature and chose a partner that was immature in a complementary manner to us!

An emotionally secure and mature person recognizes a toxic relationship and can choose to end it when they realize things are not changing. Instead we turned out to be the perfect match for another emotionally stunted person.

Of course, since the relationship is/was toxic and dysfunctional, it either moves through cycles or becomes broken.

[Learning_curve74]

How did any of us non's on here act bad towards our pwBPD's? Did we emotionally abuse them? Did we give them the silent treatment? Did we up and disappear out of their lives at will, for no real discernible reason? Only to reappear x period of time later. Sure, we put up with god awful behavior and we were not ultimately good to ourselves, but how is that bad to them?

The problem is that many of us were enablers. We accepted their bad behavior instead of letting them suffer the natural consequences of their behavior, namely losing us/their partner, losing the comfort of the relationship. We are like the parent that is always there and never lets their child grow up. It is in the best interest of the child to grow up to stand or fall on their own.

[Suzn]

We are like the parent that is always there and never lets their child grow up. It is in the best interest of the child to grow up to stand or fall on their own.

Well put! Yes. I stole someone's life lessons by always fixing and hiding things for them. I say them because this extended to other people in my life, it wasn't just with my ex.

[Perfidy]

Isn't the concept of enabling the same as taking responsibility for someone else's bs. Kind of like establishing an identity connected to someone else? Like making yourself a sideshow while another is the main attraction? I can understand why healing can be so difficult when concepts like these are readily accepted just because someone got a bunch of people to swallow all these buzzwords and nod their heads. What ever happened to the courage to just go ahead and live your life. Do whatever it is you do at the moment without fear and hope for the best outcome? Seriously... It actually might have worked! I'm sure there is no way to predict the outcome based on BPD, drug addiction,immaturity or anything except for maybe death? Yes, I understand and can actually see that there is almost a script for BPD behavior but isn't there also a chance that it COULD work? The cockeyed optimist.

[Turkish]

Isn't the concept of enabling the same as taking responsibility for someone else's bs. Kind of like establishing an identity connected to someone else? Like making yourself a sideshow while another is the main attraction? I can understand why healing can be so difficult when concepts like these are readily accepted just because someone got a bunch of people to swallow all these buzzwords and nod their heads. What ever happened to the courage to just go ahead and live your life. Do whatever it is you do at the moment without fear and hope for the best outcome? Seriously... It actually might have worked! I'm sure there is no way to predict the outcome based on BPD, drug addiction,immaturity or anything except for maybe death? Yes, I understand and can actually see that there is almost a script for BPD behavior but isn't there also a chance that it COULD work? The cockeyed optimist.

when I started but putting up with her behavior and becoming more assertive ( something she always told me to do),  she regressed in immaturity,  stopped mirroring me,  then mirrored my detachment,  then she painted me black as a lover permanently.

[Suzn]

Isn't the concept of enabling the same as taking responsibility for someone else's bs. Kind of like establishing an identity connected to someone else? Like making yourself a sideshow while another is the main attraction?

Yes.

What ever happened to the courage to just go ahead and live your life. Do whatever it is you do at the moment without fear and hope for the best outcome? Seriously... It actually might have worked!

Did this work for you? There is nothing wrong with having courage to live your life.

I'm sure there is no way to predict the outcome based on BPD, drug addiction,immaturity or anything except for maybe death? Yes, I understand and can actually see that there is almost a script for BPD behavior but isn't there also a chance that it COULD work? The cockeyed optimist.

With BPD alone it can work. There are many members over on the Staying board working on their relationships right now. There are success stories there as well. When you are dealing with drug addiction you are dealing with someone who is high, not in their "right" mind. Being in a r/s with a pwBPD comes with a responsibility of being an emotional caretaker. Not an emotional enabler. One has to be able to keep a separate identity. It takes a lot of strength not to become enmeshed, to be interdependent.

[Perfidy]

Suzn... So hard to make any of this out. My problem is that I AM a caretaker. I was like a parent to that girl. She was like a sick child to me. I WAS her emotional caretaker. I tried to show her a better way. Through example. By living a strong and healthy life. By not accepting her anger. I wasn't trying to "fix"her. I was letting her fall. I figured she would eventually get fed up enough to do something about herself. She never did. At least not while she was with me. I understand a lot. There is much that I don't understand too. I know she was on antidepressants when I met her but I did not know at the time she should have been in therapy. I understand this quite after the fact. I didn't hide or cover up her drug use... .It was so obvious... .Everyone knew. My family was between shame and disgust along with me and everyone else. Including her! The fact that she was a train wreck is clear. I can't help thinking that I failed myself and that I failed her. In spite of all of the crap I saw through everything and underneath all that anger and torment there was a really beautiful girl. Wounded and scarred. What kind of person would I have been to turn my back on her? She was so torn up from years of drug abuse I didn't think she really had much of a chance. Then it went ... I tolerated a lot of crap... Isn't that what the people who take care of the mentally ill do? Don't the mentally ill put their caretakers through hell?

[Suzn]

Perfidy you were not her parent though. Drug addiction is a choice. It's not your fault she didn't reach out for professional help. I know how hard it is to watch someone use and not want to help themselves.   That decision has to come from her. For whatever reason her choices are still working for her.

[RecycledNoMore]

It is not the hallmark of an emotionally mature person to set aside our own well being for another person. To stay in an unhealthy relationship for a long period of time knowing it is or was unhealthy.

Ironman to answer your question, some of my "bad" behaviors were...

I was controlling, since I was uncomfortable with her behaviors I tried to control her.

I lost my temper and yelled more times than I want to admit but do admit it now.

I wanted to win more than I wanted to problem solve.

I let my emotions and fears get out of hand, they controlled my decisions.

I Can identify with this, I yelled, I screamed, I wanted to " win"

Just once, one fking time

I never did though, the dice were loaded against me

every time, every fking time.