Court Today - Emergency hearing for Christmas

[Thunderstruck]

SO got a new L who is a pistol. We couldn't be happier with him. For the past two Halloweens, Thanksgivings, and last Christmas SO hasn't had any time with SD8. L said "pose two options for Thanksgiving and see which she chooses, if you don't get time then we'll go for Christmas". uBPDbm initially agreed to switch halfway through the day and then never showed up.

L got an emergency hearing for Christmas. SO requested the first week of the break. Well uBPDbm came up with a schedule where we switch Christmas Eve at night so SO will have SD8 from Christmas Eve until New Year's Day. SO didn't want this schedule because, well, we doubt she'll show and it's a perfect way for her to instill some alienation into SD8 (we think that "You could stay here and have fun with me but no... .your daddy went to court to have the judge take you away" is probably going to be her song).

The judge went with her schedule. A bunch disappointed with that. But at least, for the first time EVER, we have a court order to follow. Let's see if uBPDbm will stick to it.

Oh and we have court ordered phone calls. This would be super nice, as SO has yet to ever receive phone contact (even though he requests it constantly).

[DreamGirl]

Sometimes lawyers who are pistols really, really help. My husband's lawyer was no nonsense too, it really helped the process along since the other side was nothing but nonsense.

But at least, for the first time EVER, we have a court order to follow. Let's see if uBPDbm will stick to it.

Oh and we have court ordered phone calls. This would be super nice, as SO has yet to ever receive phone contact (even though he requests it constantly).

I can't help but have positive thoughts for you... .A nice long week with her will be nice!

A court order is needed pretty badly in your situation.  

[livednlearned]

How are the court-ordered phone calls set up? Do they go both way?

I hope you have a nice Christmas with SD8  

Is there a plan in place if uBPD mom doesn't show on Christmas eve? I ask because I noticed weekends and holidays were popular times with N/BPDx to throw a wrench. Hard to reach lawyers, therapists, etc.

[ForeverDad]

It's frustrating when the court only sets 'fair' orders going forward.  The judge ought to have seen the long pattern of blocking and at least set a one time compensation and then fairness going forward.  We wish.

My story... .We separated in 2005 and had mutual TPOs for the next 4-5 months.  She (then a spouse at that time) made some weak allegations, unsubstantiated, I made a threat of DV allegation, substantiated by a recording.  While it was all pending, family court assigned her as custodial parent, based upon work schedule, apparently not based on the allegations.  When they were dismissed, magistrate said if we couldn't work it out, we had to come back via another more long term way.  I understood that to be legal separation or divorce.  After magistrate left - and with ex happening to have the current possession of our child - ex demanded I submit to supervised visitation.  I said no.  She walked out.  I didn't see my preschooler for a month, nor did my ex allow any phone calls to reach him.  So I filed for divorce.  Nearly 2 months later we had a hearing.  The same magistrate got our case and he questioned my ex to confirm she hadn't allowed me ANY father-child contact for 3 months.  He said, paraphrasing of course, "Well, I'll fix that, I'm reinstating the parenting schedule, mother gets temp custody and father starts his next weekend at the end of the week.  It's Monday, he gets the child Friday 6 pm."  Ex pleaded she was going out of town that Saturday and wanted to delay my reunion another week.  Super Stern Patient magistrate meekly said No but 'asked' me to start my weekend reunion after she brought him back at 8 pm Saturday.  I was feeling like, How about right now?  How about make-up time for the lost 3 months?  How about consequences for 3 months of total blocking, not just 'going forward'?  But my new attorney, hired to begin the divorce and should have remembered this magistrate had already been dealing with us for half a year, told me to patiently say Yes.  That's what is so frustrating, my ex was hugely in the wrong by blocking for months but not only did she not get consequences at all but she was still able to push for more time even if only one more day.

[Matt]

Yeah, I think it might be good to work out, with the new lawyer, exactly how you will handle it if the other party doesn't comply with the holiday schedule in the new court order - will you call the police?  Call your lawyer?  Go to where the child is?  I don't know the right answer, but it will be best to figure it out since it's likely to happen.

Does the other party have an attorney?  Sometimes one attorney can say to the other, "You might want to advise your client that if she does not comply with this schedule we are prepared to call the police and your client may find herself spending the holidays behind bars."  There's probably a better way to say it - and your new lawyer won't issue idle threats - but if you can somehow let the other lawyer know what you're thinking, she will probably advise her client to comply with the order.

[Thunderstruck]

How are the court-ordered phone calls set up? Do they go both way?

I hope you have a nice Christmas with SD8  

Is there a plan in place if uBPD mom doesn't show on Christmas eve? I ask because I noticed weekends and holidays were popular times with N/BPDx to throw a wrench. Hard to reach lawyers, therapists, etc.

Yes, the calls go both ways. We specifically requested that to show that we are trying to be fair.

L says if she doesn't show, file a report with the police and call for a welfare check and maybe the police will ask her to hand SD8 over. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, that could be really traumatic for a child. If she doesn't comply we can use this for a basis of going for full custody.

BM is pro se. She's acting like she's queen of the world now that she "won" in court. The entitlement is driving us nutso.

[ForeverDad]

L says if she doesn't show, file a report with the police and call for a welfare check and maybe the police will ask her to hand SD8 over. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, that could be really traumatic for a child.

As if not having expected contact with her other parent is that much less traumatic?  Do I hear someone walking on eggshells?  In most cases, children are far more resilient than you think.

[livednlearned]

L says if she doesn't show, file a report with the police and call for a welfare check and maybe the police will ask her to hand SD8 over. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, that could be really traumatic for a child.

As if not having expected contact with her other parent is that much less traumatic?  Do I hear someone walking on eggshells?  In most cases, children are far more resilient than you think.

I see what you're saying FD, and I know police were involved in your situation and your son has processed what happened and maybe bounced back. But when N/BPDx threatened to have a sheriff arrest me when I traveled with S12 to another state, the PC said, "Mr. N/BPDx, it is widely agreed by experts in child psychology that having law enforcement involved is traumatizing to the children." To me, she said that if N/BPDx did that, it would tell the court that N/BPDx is someone who doesn't think twice about creating unnecessary conflict for the minor child.

Trying to imagine this from a kids perspective... .if cops show up, that tells the child that even with two parents involved, the two people who are supposed to be real grown ups, they can't manage the situation without calling in police. Maybe because your situation was a crisis, FD, having the police show up was less traumatizing because they were deflating the conflict? But in Thunderstruck's situation, it does seem like calling the police might be turning up the dial for the kids when they might not perceive it to be a "crisis."

[Matt]

Depends a lot on exactly how things go... .

My wife called the police from our neighbors' house, and stayed there.  I was with the kids - fed them and ran their bath water - and the police arrived - two officers who handled it very well.

First they talked with me, outside the house.  Then with the kids, inside the house.  In their report, they wrote that my son, then 8, was jumping up and down on the couch - basically "when the cat's away the mice will play" - neither parent in the room so it's time to have fun.  The officers obviously made the kids feel safe and comfortable, and got them to tell what they had seen (not much).

Then they talked with my wife and the neighbor, and arranged for the neighbor (with my permission) to stay with the kids.  And they cuffed me and took me away, and another officer arrived and cuffed my wife and took her away too.

Both of us were in jail over night - a very bad experience!  But the kids didn't know that - they were put to bed by a neighbor they knew and felt comfortable with.  Later I told them what had happened, and now they know pretty much everything.  But because of the way the officers handled it, it wasn't traumatic for them.

So... .talking in advance with the police in the area might be good, and figuring out how this can happen with as little drama as possible.  If the kids are being taken care of by someone they feel safe with, Mom going to jail may not impact them.  I think the PC may be thinking that it will be a big drama - Mom will be cuffed in front of the kids and taken away crying - which might be exactly what happens.  If you can figure it out so it's more like my situation - the kids don't see a parent in cuffs and they are always with someone they feel safe with - maybe not a big deal.

[ForeverDad]

I wasn't saying the other parent would be dragged away to jail for not complying with a court order.  If that's the concern here, then relax, that generally doesn't happen.  DV allegations, yes so the incident is defused, court order interpretation disagreements, no or unlikely.  For over 5 years from late 2005 to early 2011 the default exchange location was the sheriff's office if son wasn't at daycare or school.  There were many contested exchanges over the years, about 8-10 police appearances at my doorstep come to mind.  Each time the police were always polite, skimmed the order, listened to each parent, then encouraged us to get past the immediate situation and resolve it later in court.  I don't recall them ever forcing us to exchange.  That could happen in rare cases, but not often.  It was always exchange or I'll write up a report for the other parent and then the parents could let the court figure it out.

Of course each case is different, some are more extreme than others.  But if the concern is seeing a parent put in a police car just because the police were involved, then... .at least it won't be me, I won't rant, rage or misbehave in front of the police.  Not a guarantee, around BP blaming and blame shifting behaviors anything can happen.

[Thunderstruck]

Summary from the holidays... .

Before the ink was even dry on the order the uBPDmom wanted to change the schedule. She gave up her first two nights (a Friday and Saturday, I can't even tell you the last time SD8 was with her mom on the weekend). All the other exchanges occured as normal and without incident. We ended up with 13 overnights and she had a whopping 4. And this was the schedule that she wanted. We made sure SD8 called her mom every night per the order (and still do, even though the order is technically over). SO got one phone call.

SO and I got engaged on NYE so we've gotten some crage (crazy + rage = crage) over that. Over all it went pretty well. She tried to play a few games but in the end mostly followed the order.